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Such stealth wow
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Sep 12, 2015 00:27
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I remember some people saying that the "skullface rapes paz and forces chico to do it too" plot point was going to be de-horrified once TPP came out and somehow fixed how arbitrary it was. 
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Sep 12, 2015 00:44
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Machinegunboyo posted:From Metal Gear 2: This is notably omitting the crucial context, Big Boss isn't saying this because he is stating his evil declaration of war on Solid Snake, he's saying this because Snake's believes that if he can kill Big Boss it will cure his PTSD. Big Boss is pointing out that the PTSD will never be cured and that it's impossible for either of them to return to a normal life. The only liberation for soldiers exists in death. The excessive state of war isn't glorious, it's actually miserable. The thing about Big Boss is that his ideology is deliberately left ambiguous and inscrutable in order for the player to be able to fill in the gaps. If anything, it's closest to Fascism in that it resembles a revolutionary communist ideology with all of the essential communist qualities drained out. It's like when he talks about admiring Che Guevera in Peace Walker but never actually mentions politics. His actual stated goal is create a world without borders. This is contrasted with the three other competing parties that are trying to accomplish the same objective. Zero intends to accelerate the already existing system and use surveillance and espionage to clandestinely control everything. Skull Face thinks it can only be achieved by totally breaking the system and letting something new arise out of whatever tribal confederations survive. Liquid Ocelot takes this even further and believes that a world without borders is a world of perpetual anarchy where everyone is at war with everyone else. And Big Boss thinks it can be done by.. creating a big mercenary company? The implicit understanding here is that Big Boss is going to use all these soldiers for some sort of global revolution where he overthrows all of the world's governments, but we never see any of these plans for world domination come to fruition. And even if it did, it's unlikely the state would even be able to function without the Jewish conspiracy to fight against, unless he really did intend to bring about Full Communism with Metal Gears.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:47
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Big Boss explicitly states his desire at the end of Peace Walker.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:49
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"We need no reason to fight, we fight because we are needed. We will be the deterrent for those with no other recourse." - Big Boss, at the end of Peace Walker
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Sep 12, 2015 00:52
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Just another day in a war without end.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:53
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lol the first shot of the entire loving game: - Outer Heaven...just another day in a war without end *Big Boss states constantly, in the clearest possible terms, over and over in every game, about how much he wants to unify the world through conflict and create an entire nation of soldiers who never run out of wars and thus become obsolete* "uh guys where do you get the idea that Big Boss wants endless war?" I think people are getting caught up in the idea that a "villain" means they are absolutely, black and white evil, and that isn't true. Big Boss is a tragic villain - hell, he's even a relatively sympathetic one, but he is unquestionably a villain. A lot of the "bad guys" in MGS are tragic like that - Mantis, the B&B corps, Zero, Skull Face, even Liquid all have motivations that are at least understandable and kind of depressing at their core. Like, the most objectively hosed up person in all of MGS is probably Huey. Big Boss being a villain doesn't mean he can't do good things or have moments of compassion - it's almost like one of the overarching themes of the series is how enemies are only enemies in relative terms, and how everyone feels justified in their own actions, and how "evil" is not some nameless, faceless, absolute entity but rather something that anyone can fall into under the right circumstances.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:53
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Good idea: Give soldiers who know no other way of life a place in society. Bad idea: That place in society being part of an endless war machine.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:53
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Digiwizzard posted:"We need no reason to fight, we fight because we are needed. We will be the deterrent for those with no other recourse." - Big Boss, at the end of Peace Walker This is notably omitting the crucial context, Big Boss rejecting the Boss after she puts down her gun.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:55
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Honestly, the only truly 100% unsympathetic villains in the series are Hot Coldman, Sundowner, Huey, and Volgin. Maybe Rose, too.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:57
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ImpAtom posted:This is notably omitting the crucial context, Big Boss rejecting the Boss after she puts down her gun. You've missed the ending to Peace Walker.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:58
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Sundowner is super-sympathetic. He just wanted to be loving invincible.Digiwizzard posted:You've missed the ending to Peace Walker. Not at all. The entire point of the ending is that it is BB rejecting what The Boss did and talking about how they'll find reasons to fight defined by the era they're in, even if it means being criminals or terrorists. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 00:58
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Motherbase in general is just really messed up. It was an idea born from Miller's dream, and his dream has pretty much always been the creation of a PMC. You know the things that MGS4 and Rising presented as hella hosed up and needed to be brought down? It's just, by design really, an incredibly bad idea and has never at any point been presented in a morally good light. It actually made sense the way Miller described it. Costa Rica is a nation without an army. We're an army without a nation. They, and countries like them, can contract us to be their entire military apparatus--logistics, training, special operations, border patrol, rescue ops, counter-terrorism--all the way up to and including nuclear deterrence. Countries like that get all the benefits of a large, powerful military without having to worry about a military coup, and probably at a reduced cost since they're subcontracting out. In exchange, MSF soldiers get to control their own fates--not tools of a government, but well-respected providers of a vital service. No suicide missions, no "collateral damage". No sad, undertrained conscripts being thrown into the meat-grinders like Afghanistan or Vietnam.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:00
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Like, what the hell do you think a nation of soldiers with no loyalty to any country or ideology are going to be doing all day, exactly? Soldiers that aren't fighting...aren't soldiers. The game could not be any more explicit about Big Boss wanting a world where soldiers will always have battles to fight in. It is literally one of the most unsubtle, in-your-face aspects of Big Boss' character arc. edit: On an unrelated note, so what happened with Blackhound? Obviously it wasn't secret DLC, is there any wonderful schadenfreude to harvest from the fallout?
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Sep 12, 2015 01:01
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ImpAtom posted:Sundowner is super-sympathetic. He just wanted to be loving invincible. D-do you not?
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Sep 12, 2015 01:03
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Like, what the hell do you think a nation of soldiers with no loyalty to any country or ideology are going to be doing all day, exactly? Pooyan.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:06
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Digiwizzard posted:You've missed the ending to Peace Walker. The ending where he says "We will be terrorists! We're all going straight to hell. We are fighting for ourselves. This no morals, only for profit mercenary business is the only place for us."? Or the ending where he says "The Boss betrayed me."? Vengarr posted:It actually made sense the way Miller described it. Costa Rica is a nation without an army. We're an army without a nation. They, and countries like them, can contract us to be their entire military apparatus--logistics, training, special operations, border patrol, rescue ops, counter-terrorism--all the way up to and including nuclear deterrence. Countries like that get all the benefits of a large, powerful military without having to worry about a military coup, and probably at a reduced cost since they're subcontracting out. In exchange, MSF soldiers get to control their own fates--not tools of a government, but well-respected providers of a vital service. No suicide missions, no "collateral damage". No sad, undertrained conscripts being thrown into the meat-grinders like Afghanistan or Vietnam. Yeah, MSF starts out kinda seeming like an alright idea. But then in the process of expanding they become a goddamn nuclear power. An army that acts for themselves, has a freaking nuke! It's not a good thing, and I think the fact that they basically call it a PMC is significant because PMC's were shown as like one of the reasons the war economy was loving awful.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:08
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:edit: On an unrelated note, so what happened with Blackhound? Obviously it wasn't secret DLC, is there any wonderful schadenfreude to harvest from the fallout? 8 minutes and ticking down...
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Sep 12, 2015 01:11
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Gortarius posted:8 minutes and ticking down... It already got confirmed to be fake, it was some indie dev team trading on Kojima's name to promote their lovely horror game that will be "sort of like Silent Hills would have been." It's already dead in the water, but it looks like all the juicy stuff got taken down and I wanted to see all the people going batshit and cursing Kojima's name over something he had no involvement in whatsoever.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:14
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Funky Valentine posted:Honestly, the only truly 100% unsympathetic villains in the series are Hot Coldman, Sundowner, Huey, and Volgin. Naomi is a real piece of poo poo. I'd put her up there with Huey.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:17
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Raiden was in a PMC in Rising too but they seemed like some good guys
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Sep 12, 2015 01:18
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Watch Big Boss start a loving war.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:19
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Get hosed losers.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:23
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I'm hooting.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:24
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I think in Rising PMC's are in the transition stage from MGS4 to whatever comes next so some could do stuff other than create war. Raidens peeps were mostly security iirc.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:25
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Drinkfist posted:AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH are you ok
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Sep 12, 2015 01:26
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ImpAtom posted:
The actual ending wasn't "man I loving hate the Boss for loving peace". The entire game was about averting a full scale global war. The ending was about Big Boss deciding he would rather fight the system rather than fatalistically accepting that this was the best it could be like The Boss did. Grizzled Patriarch posted:Like, what the hell do you think a nation of soldiers with no loyalty to any country or ideology are going to be doing all day, exactly? Soldiers that aren't fighting...aren't soldiers. That's the thing, In the circumstances of success none of those people would be soldiers anymore, they would be founding fathers. Big Boss would become a "vanishing mediator", a paradoxical hero who's violence retroactively establishes the conditions of its own legitimacy and thereby obliterates its violent character, transforming itself into a solemn 'founding act'.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:31
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Man what's with all these assholes loving with the Silent Hill fans haven't they suffered enough bullshit from konami already without no-name indies making GBS threads on them 
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Sep 12, 2015 01:33
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Digiwizzard posted:The actual ending wasn't "man I loving hate the Boss for loving peace". The entire game was about averting a full scale global war. The ending was about Big Boss deciding he would rather fight the system rather than fatalistically accepting that this was the best it could be like The Boss did. Except that's just a weird fanfic you made up and is contradicted by what Big Boss explicitly states over and over in the games.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:33
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Drinkfist posted:AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Oh well, guess I'll just keep playing certified good game Metal Gear Solid V: Phantom Pain.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:35
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Digiwizzard posted:The actual ending wasn't "man I loving hate the Boss for loving peace". The entire game was about averting a full scale global war. The ending was about Big Boss deciding he would rather fight the system rather than fatalistically accepting that this was the best it could be like The Boss did No, he didn't hate the Boss for loving peace, he felt betrayed by the Boss for putting down her gun. Big Boss wasn't trying to fight the system. In fact he was explicitly doing the opposite. They had no goal, no homeland, and would find reasons to fight. They would become whatever they had to and even descend into hell as long as they were able to keep their Outer Heaven.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:36
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Except that's just a weird fanfic you made up and is contradicted by what Big Boss explicitly states over and over in the games. Please give me some.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:36
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https://twitter.com/FunhausTeam/status/642496856610721792 I want off. Someone fulton me out.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:40
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ImpAtom posted:No, he didn't hate the Boss for loving peace, he felt betrayed by the Boss for putting down her gun. Big Boss wasn't trying to fight the system. In fact he was explicitly doing the opposite. They had no goal, no homeland, and would find reasons to fight. They would become whatever they had to and even descend into hell as long as they were able to keep their Outer Heaven. If Big Boss just wanted to run a mercenary company he could have just run a mercenary company. Even in TPP there's plenty of PMC's.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:44
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I remember some people saying that the "skullface rapes paz and forces chico to do it too" plot point was going to be de-horrified once TPP came out and somehow fixed how arbitrary it was. Why was it arbitrary? Skull Face is a tremendous monster. It offered some insight into his character, specifically his abuse of psychology to inflict maximum pain. And it was part of his efforts to make her spill Zero's location. Ground Zeroes. Zero's ground...hmm.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:47
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Digiwizzard posted:If Big Boss just wanted to run a mercenary company he could have just run a mercenary company. Even in TPP there's plenty of PMC's. He.... He is running a mercenary company.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:49
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Digiwizzard posted:Please give me some. How about, instead of quoting basically everything Big Boss has ever said since PW, you give me a quote that supports your made-up reading of Big Boss' motivations. Like I am baffled that you could possibly think Big Boss doesn't want endless war. It is literally the tagline for Outer Heaven at the begin of TPP, the culmination of his "dream." He tells people in every game that he shows up in that he wants to create a place where soldiers will never be obsolete, and will always have a battlefield to fight on. It is so incredibly explicit that I almost cannot believe you aren't just trolling.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:53
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SyntheticPolygon posted:He.... He is running a mercenary company. I know right, and he keeps mumbling about this Cipher guy which is weird because we already established he just wants to be a regular man who fights a lot. And then some other things happens.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:53
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Vengarr posted:Why was it arbitrary? Skull Face is a tremendous monster. It offered some insight into his character, specifically his abuse of psychology to inflict maximum pain. And it was part of his efforts to make her spill Zero's location. It's arbitrary because in almost every other instance he's a high minded Bond villian, even in interrogation (i.e. the tape where he interrogates code talker), but when he gets his hands on the latest of Kojimas sexual bugaboos all of a sudden he's a law and order SVU bad guy? It's not an insight into his character when it only jives with the rest of what we see via "well he's a really bad guy".
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Sep 12, 2015 01:53
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randombattle posted:https://twitter.com/FunhausTeam/status/642496856610721792 Looks like the idiots who first set up that website decided to link to a charity video instead of their actual content in an attempt to cover their tracks.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:55
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