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euphronius posted:Who is she losing to in this scenario. Biden? Unlawful Obama? Maybe the guy who's in first place now and ain't looking back?
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Sep 12, 2015 00:29
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Pontius Pilate posted:Rick Perry: the next Eugene Debs. It would be a Herculean task for Rick Perry to get a million votes in any national election.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:30
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euphronius posted:Who is she losing to in this scenario. Biden? Unlawful Obama? Bernie Sanders actually, who is in fact leading in both of those states.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:30
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Vox Nihili posted:Honestly, acting on actual geopolitical interests would be a huge step up from the last 15 years. Oh Iraq and Afghanistan were definitely influenced by our geopolitical interests, having a U.S. Colony in the middle of Mesopotamia just south of Russia and bordering Iran and Saudi Arabia is a fantastic power play. Too bad we just don't have any loving idea how to actually solidify our interests and we just ruined several countries from the ripples of our stupid loving imperialism.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:31
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:what does this even mean. of course an air strike in a foreign country is "interventionism" The US has launched airstrikes against it's own people before. That's not technically interventionism! Also obviously a hypothetical war where we were attacked first would allow non-interventionist airstrikes.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:32
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ISIS is pretty much the end result of flip flopping between "destroy everything" and "do nothing". Basically American foreign policy can be summed up by a picture of someone making GBS threads on a street and someone else being forced to clean it up. America is so permanently tied to the rest of the world vis a vis military treaties, agreements, and whatnot that it would be impossible to avoid ALL intervention and it would be negligent to attempt to minimize it. Unfortunately the middle east is our mess to clean up and if we don't do it we will be in the wrong both morally and logically. This doesn't mean we need to put boots on the ground, but helping out the right people with aid and air strikes is a very good way to go about fostering pro-America sentiment in the region while minimizing our own casualties. This isn't even getting into the can of worms that is saying ignoring the plight of workers/the oppressed overseas is the most "left" position to take but w/e.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:33
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Xenophon posted:Because I was only counting tweets from @BernieSanders, not @SenSanders, because that's what's on C-SPAN's presidential twitter list. Maybe Bernie should stop hiding behind multiple identities on twitter?? What kind of Clintonesque poo poo is he trying to pull here?
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Sep 12, 2015 00:37
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if only there was some international body that could take the sole responsibility of policing the planet off our nation's shoulders if only *bombs iran*
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Sep 12, 2015 00:38
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Venom Snake posted:ISIS is pretty much the end result of flip flopping between "destroy everything" and "do nothing". Basically American foreign policy can be summed up by a picture of someone making GBS threads on a street and someone else being forced to clean it up. Air strikes do not foster pro-American sentiment, HTH.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:42
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Vox Nihili posted:Air strikes do not foster pro-American sentiment, HTH. imagine i just posted that gif of us bombing a hill owned by ISIS and kurds chanting "Go USA" over it a billlion times.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:45
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I guess your technically correct that air strikes make ISIS not like us very much 
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Sep 12, 2015 00:46
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Vox Nihili posted:Right, though sending material support is certainly much less interventionst than bombing. By the metric of sending weapons, intervention is almost ubiquitous. fade5 fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 00:47
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fade5 posted:This is part of what I was getting at, pretty much every goddamn country on earth does some form of "intervention", it's a matter of degree/level. The US is not the sole interventionist on the planet, and the US hypothetically going full non-intervention just means other countries will step up to fill the void. France already intervened in Mali (and a few other Francophone countries) with basically zero help from us. Iran is backing Assad and Iraqi Shia militias with zero help from us. Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be doing a whole hell of a lot.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:49
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NotWearingPants posted:Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be doing a whole hell of a lot. this statement is so breathtakingly wrong I would need a flow chart to accurately show how wrong it is.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:50
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NotWearingPants posted:Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be doing a whole hell of a lot. Saudi Arabia did an intervention 14 years ago today.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:51
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NotWearingPants did you work for the Bush administration?
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Sep 12, 2015 00:52
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Can you run a presidential campaign from a jail cell? Eugene Debs managed it. quote:Debs ran for president in the 1920 election while in prison in Atlanta, Georgia, at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. He received 919,799[42] write-in votes (3.4%),[43] slightly less than he had won in 1912, when he received 6%, the highest number of votes for a Socialist Party presidential candidate in the U.S In unrelated news, this recently appeared in Kirby, VT, and I can't seem to stop bringing it up. 
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Sep 12, 2015 00:54
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NotWearingPants posted:Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be doing a whole hell of a lot. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/07/turkey-saudi-arabia-syria-rebels-pact_n_7232750.html quote:The Turkish-Saudi agreement has led to a new joint command center in the northeastern Syrian province of Idlib. There, a coalition of groups — including Nusra and other Islamist brigades such as Ahrar al-Sham that Washington views as extremist — are progressively eroding Assad's front. The rebel coalition also includes more moderate elements of the Free Syrian Army that have received U.S. support in the past. Saudi Arabia also INVADED loving YEMEN do you watch the news at all?
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Sep 12, 2015 00:55
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invading yemen was a real bad idea
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Sep 12, 2015 00:57
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TEAYCHES posted:invading yemen was a real bad idea It is, but perhaps all this discussion of foreign interventions isn't best suited to the 2016 primary thread, save where it actually intersects with, you know, the 2016 primaries.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:58
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saudi arabia loves to export its disaffected sexually frustrated males to every sectarian war it can so its pretty funny to see them fail at an actual military adventure in yemen
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Sep 12, 2015 01:00
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TEAYCHES posted:invading yemen was a real bad idea Venom Snake posted:imagine i just posted that gif of us bombing a hill owned by ISIS and kurds chanting "Go USA" over it a billlion times. quote:Sultan Muslim, a Syrian Kurd, had no doubt what to name her seventh child when he was born, safely in Turkey, after a harrowing month-long flight from her home in Kobane: Obama.  The point of all of this is that there is no "one-size-fits-all" for intervention, and that it should be thought about and the pros and cons weighed before it's done. And it's relevant to 2016 because the Republicans would have us start a war with Iran, because Iraq wasn't bad enough. There is no pro to invading Iran, and the cons are so horrible it's terrifying to think about. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 01:00
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Captain_Maclaine posted:It is, but perhaps all this discussion of foreign interventions isn't best suited to the 2016 primary thread, save where it actually intersects with, you know, the 2016 primaries. please dont backseat moderate, thanks
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Sep 12, 2015 01:02
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Venom Snake posted:imagine i just posted that gif of us bombing a hill owned by ISIS and kurds chanting "Go USA" over it a billlion times. The US is already quickly flushing it's goodwill with the Kurds down the drain.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:02
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TEAYCHES posted:please dont backseat moderate, thanks Just when I thought you couldn't possibly get more insufferable.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:04
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blue squares posted:Just when I thought you couldn't possibly get more insufferable. it was a joke, hes probably right. geez louise you d&d people sure are something awful
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Sep 12, 2015 01:05
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TEAYCHES posted:it was a joke, hes probably right. geez louise you d&d people sure are something awful Actually I'm being pretty relaxed about this place, really. Hardly banned anyone, yet. But seriously, let's see if we can nudge the conversation back at least within seeing distance of the 2016 primaries, shall we?
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Sep 12, 2015 01:09
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TEAYCHES posted:it was a joke,
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Sep 12, 2015 01:09
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On a different topic and definitely relevant to 2016: Rick Perry dropped out and Jim Gilmore didn't even make it to the Kiddy Table debate, which means the culling of candidates has begun. What's amazing is that Rick Perry was going to be center stage at the kiddy table debates, and he didn't even try to go for a last gasp before dropping out. I had been wondering exactly what Rick Perry was expecting to be different about 2016 from his 2012 run (other than his new  ) and it turns out there honestly wasn't anything different. He blathered about the border a lot at the first debate, and that's all he really had/has.
fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 01:10
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Why does Carson talking immediately make me want to take a nap. He has these sleepy eyes and a really lilting little voice.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:10
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Actually I'm being pretty relaxed about this place, really. Hardly banned anyone, yet. But I was really looking forward to hearing everyone's personal opinions on BBQ again.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:11
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Venom Snake posted:I oppose US interventionism but if you seriously oppose air strikes then well, your retarded. apparently opposing terrorizing third world towns with the sleep-depriving buzzing of numerous unmanned murder machines reminding them of their own insignificant mortality, is being retarded drones are more effective than airstrikes, cheering on unethical military practices because they are cheaper and easier to abuse is awful
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Sep 12, 2015 01:12
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Rexicon1 posted:Why does Carson talking immediately make me want to take a nap. He has these sleepy eyes and a really lilting little voice. There's an anesthesia joke in here somewhere but I can't make it work. fade5 posted:On a different topic and definitely relevant to 2016: Rick Perry dropped out and Jim Gilmore didn't even make it to the Kiddy Table debate, which means the culling of candidates has begun. Remember back before Perry had his (first) big retard moment in 2012 and everyone was talking about how he was the new hotness for the GOP?
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Sep 12, 2015 01:15
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The fact Drones are more effective is good because it means a lot less collateral damage so,
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Sep 12, 2015 01:15
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Abner Cadaver II posted:if only there was some international body that could take the sole responsibility of policing the planet off our nation's shoulders It'd be unironically pretty awesome if such a thing existed that wasn't largely toothless and dysfunctional and beholden to various state's adversarial interests.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:15
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Captain_Maclaine posted:There's an anesthesia joke in here somewhere but I can't make it work. "Neurosurgeon? Are you sure he wasn't an anesthesiologist because etc."
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Sep 12, 2015 01:17
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Trumps going to win isn't he
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Sep 12, 2015 01:50
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 Bernie is polling better nationally than Obama was at this same period of the 2008 election.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:57
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How are they getting those popularity numbers? The '16 ones look way too regular.
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Sep 12, 2015 02:03
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which has been done without a single debate, while there had been 10 democratic debates at this point in 2007
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Sep 12, 2015 02:03
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