bitey posted:

Excuse me? The names of the targets are on a list distributed by Al Quada.

"Barest, most flimsy excuse?" What the gently caress is the matter with you?

Rigged Death Trap posted:

First and most probable: Arabian Poetry.
Possibly the most important of which were The Mu'alaqaat (hung ones). Refers to a set of what was considered the absolute finest poetry produced by Arabian poets, the ten of them covered all major styles and origins used by Arabian tribes at the time, and were held in such high regard as to be painted on the Kaaba. Which then was, as is still true now, an absolutely central religious site, before Islam came in.

Schizotek posted:

It actually is just an idiom meaning "humiliate" akin to the english idiom "rub their nose in the ground", and is understood by everyone, even salafists, as such. It speaks more to the way they poorly treated animals than anything else. If you need me to deconstruct it I'll go through it with sources. Unless you're problem is with the whole "we disagree with atheists" thing in which case ok. But the verses extremists use to murder atheists come later.

Schizotek posted:

Except there's not really tying in knots going on here. You didn't even make an argument to counter mine. Just conflated it with other situations without even making the case that they even belong in the same category. And describing my argument as callow

The Insect Court posted:

Listening to this sort of callow apologia is a bit like listening to some liberal Christian bending himself into exigetical knots trying to argue that the "sin of Sodom" was exclusively inhospitality, or that passages in Leviticus about homosexuality are about male temple prostitutes, or like listening to a more conservative evangelical insist that the divinely ordained genocides of Canaanite tribes was merely a description of total war against an irregular force. It takes a certain sort of hubris to insist that you have a lock on the "true" meaning of scripture when you're opposed by hundreds of millions of believers and centuries or millennia of religious scholars.

It's not that there's literally no case to be made, it's that it's a highly tendentious and questionable one that seems to arise mainly in a desire to reconcile Bronze Age theology to modern norms about the use of violence. And as such it's generally doomed to fail because Yahweh and Allah are, to the degree that we can speak of them as literary characters, bloodthirsty sadists.

The Insect Court posted:

Are you really going to try to pretend that you're not arguing a minority position? If a Buddhist read a little bit about biblical scholarship and paged through the New Testament before announcing that he didn't read anything in there about popes or the cult of the saints so Catholics have got it all wrong and you can start turning the Vatican into a museum now, would you not consider that an absurd position?

Al-Muzzammil posted:

In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

O thou enwrapped in thy robes, keep vigil the night, except a little (a half of it, or
diminish a little, or add a little), and chant the Koran very distinctly;

Behold, We shall cast upon thee a weighty word; surely the first part of the night is
heavier in tread, more upright in speech, surely in the day thou hast long business. And
remember the Name of thy Lord, and devote thyself unto Him very devoutly. Lord of the
East and the West; there is no god but He; so take Him for a Guardian.

And bear thou patiently what they say, and forsake them graciously. Leave Me to those who
cry lies, those prosperous ones, and respite them a little, for with Us there are fetters, and a
furnace, and food that chokes, and a painful chastisement, upon the day when the earth and
the mountains shall quake and the mountains become a slipping heap of sand.

Surely We have sent unto you a Messenger as a witness over you, even as We sent to
Pharaoh a Messenger, but Pharaoh rebelled against the Messenger, so We seized him
remorselessly. If therefore you disbelieve, how will you guard yourselves against a day that
shall make the children grey-headed?

Whereby heaven shall be split, and its promise shall be performed. Surely this is a Reminder;
so let him who will take unto his Lord a way.

Al-Muzzammil posted:

Thy Lord knows that thou keepest vigil nearly two-thirds of the night, or a half of it, or a
third of it, and a party of those with thee; and God determines the night and the day. He
knows that you will not number it, and He has turned towards you. Therefore recite of the
Koran so much as is feasible. He knows that some of you are sick, and others journeying in
the land, seeking the bounty of God, and others fighting in the way of God. So recite of it so
much as is feasible. And perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and lend to God a good loan.
Whatever good you shall forward to your souls' account, you shall find it with God as better,
and mightier a wage. And ask God's forgiveness; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

Mandy Thompson posted:

The Supreme Being does tell us what to do and we don't stick our fingers in our ears but we understand that while the Bible and presumably the Koran are to be taken seriously, it is not always literal. They were also written centuries ago for a different audience who lived in the bronze age in more brutal times and were not as culturally developed and needed things explained to them in a different way. We can all speak to God and form our own conclusions taking the Bible in to consideration. I don't know about the Koran but early Christians also cherry picked. There are whole books of the bible that were left aside as heresies for one reason or another and Revelation was almost one of them. Perhaps they were meant for us. It is up to all of us to seek God for ourselves.

Schizotek posted:

* The Khan translation, being so lovely, inserts a reference to "polytheists" here, which is basically a pejorative way in that commentary of saying Christian. The word is a pretty generic sinner/criminal catch-all term in arabic. Just gotta remember to gently caress the infidels, though.

almighty posted:

Note: Allah is the biblical God. Allah literally means 'The God' in Arabic, it's not a separate or fancy word for some independent Islamic deity as I often notice Westerners seem to think.

quote:

A Malaysian court has ruled that non-Muslims cannot use the word Allah to refer to God, even in their own faiths, overturning a 2009 lower court ruling.

Smudgie Buggler posted:

Only the crushingly uneducated and stupid think this.

Friendly Tumour posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24516181


Not trying to argue anything, just pointing out that the bigotry can be mutual.

almighty posted:

Wrong. 'Polytheists' refer to the old/non-Abrahamic religions that were dominant in the peninsula before Islam among the Arabic tribes. Basically, it extends that back and overlaps it with the usual biblical scripture regarding the end of the days and the anti-christ. It does not refer to Christianity at all. Seperately, the book deals with Christianity and Judaism as the books of God and goes as much to name the followers of Christianity and Judaism as 'the people of the book'. Theologically, Islam establishes itself as the natural successor to the line of mythology that came along through Abraham and the book is supposed to supercede Judaism and Christianity.

Fizzil posted:

Malaysia trying to tie Malay to being Muslim and ethnicize the religion is really weird.

Sethex posted:

I wish more muslims were like Usama Hasan, man believes in human evolution and is routinely calling for some form of reform in Islamic ideology. Yeah he's still a Muslim and it baffles me that someone who is open minded and well educated with respect to the Quran and Hadith's would continue to believe, but at least he's innocuous and trying to bring Islam into the modern world.

quote:

Not all Muslims wish to express themselves in public through a communal religious identity. Identities are multiple, and some may wish to speak instead just as citizens in their professional capacity, through their political party, or their neighborhood body. Those Muslim who do speak through their communal religious identity are not homogenous. This particularly holds true because majoritarian Islam has no organized clergy, and no pope. The question of religious “representation” becomes particularly difficult to achieve as a result. And in its most extreme sense it is undesirable anyway, leading logically to nothing but ISIS-style bloodshed and theocracy. Muslim “credibility” is just as flimsy an idea to pursue doggedly. In fact, this is nothing but a variant of the African-American “not black enough” theme. Who decides whose “Muslim experience” is real, and whose is not? Is the credible Muslim only he who dresses in Arab robes, eats spicy food and drinks cava? And yet we then worry about profiling?

V. Illych L. posted:

man nobody nice hates on sufism sufis are chill af

this is another point in the direction of "salafists are a dreadfully un-nice bunch", i suppose

Sethex posted:

Sethex posted:

Hammurabi posted:

So what the gently caress exactly is the justification given by Iran for burying women deeper and making it much harder for them to escape?

blowfish posted:

wimmin are inferior. I think it was similar for trial by combat in mediaeval Europe.

Hammurabi posted:

So what the gently caress exactly is the justification given by Iran for burying women deeper and making it much harder for them to escape? using stoning as punishment in the first place?

SedanChair posted:

Other way around at least in some cases:



http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/trial_by_combat/combat_man_and_woman.htm

Hammurabi posted:

So what the gently caress exactly is the justification given by Iran for burying women deeper and making it much harder for them to escape?

Cat Mattress posted:

You got to hide their boobs.

Sethex posted:

Obviously this isn't me throwing out an "all refugees are fundie idiots" but the obvious is routinely lost on a lot of the Islamist apologists in this thread, so the obvious must be stated.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33999801

I hope taking in the refugees doesn't turn into a fantastic poo poo show where by Isis sleepers and religious radicals gently caress up the Muslim public relations effort but I'm going to reserve my optimism.

Cake Smashing Boob posted:

There's already plenty of ISIS-sympathizers and Salafi/Wahabbi radicals in Germany. The big/relevant question is how to prevent German Salafi/Wahabbi cavemen from radicalizing refugees, not the other way around.

Same goes for Sweden, although I'm not aware of any direct Salafi outreach/dawah programs specifically targeting refugees there (as of yet).