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well idk we have our own now and it seems to be working. the other few pharmacies use a different but still nz based software. changing that poo poo is not something anyone ever is going to do
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Sep 12, 2015 22:47
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:american software already copes with at least 50 + 2 different ways of handling this poo poo, what's a 53rd ? lol
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Sep 12, 2015 23:51
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:american software already copes with at least 50 + 2 different ways of handling this poo poo, what's a 53rd ? yeah but the 53rd would probably be Knifecrime Island before Sheeps North & South
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Sep 12, 2015 23:59
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i did mean the design pattern so thanks for that post. i actually dislike using singletons. singleton bad  but at the same time i'm trying to find good excuses to ever use them. learning facade in java i thought it might be a best use of it, and i guard myself to absolutely never use them in javascript or any functional PLknowing how to use google i've read countless pro and con articles on the drat subject. none of them convince me singleton is ever a good idea. but being in yospos i know i'm surrounded by the greatest computer minds the internet has to offer
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Sep 13, 2015 00:07
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eschaton posted:a bad hire can be a net negative for a team this is the dumbest meme in tech. a bad manager or a bad culture can ruin a team but a bad hire can always be dealt with. just limit their responsibility to their capabilities or if you can't do that sideline them. if this seems unachievable to you see my point about management/culture and ask yourself if you're already hosed
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Sep 13, 2015 00:12
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Awia posted:i used to work in helicopter flight control software, so no downside if anything went wrong there either most helicopters are designed to be landable if they lose power or flight control
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Sep 13, 2015 00:16
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the talent deficit posted:most helicopters are designed to be landable if they lose power or flight control yes
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Sep 13, 2015 00:17
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Awia posted:yes i just like telling people that
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Sep 13, 2015 00:20
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the talent deficit posted:this is the dumbest meme in tech. a bad manager or a bad culture can ruin a team but a bad hire can always be dealt with. just limit their responsibility to their capabilities or if you can't do that sideline them. if this seems unachievable to you see my point about management/culture and ask yourself if you're already hosed negatives can be mitigated, yes
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Sep 13, 2015 00:41
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:all of new zealand probably has as many pharmacies as, say, the detroit metro area At least I think it has but I don't really follow NZ outside of LOTR and whether they like being spied on by Americans (they love it). DaTroof posted:negatives can be mitigated, yes And this is mostly because no one enjoys tearing down a developer in an interview more than another developer.
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Sep 13, 2015 01:41
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Kilroy posted:I don't think he's saying you should hire lovely developers, just that the effort to avoid doing so (and the false negatives produced along the way) is too often outsized compared to, for example, not hiring product managers who don't know anything about software development or not having a CEO who alienates everyone in the company, or whatever. i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer if this describes your company your management is awful
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Sep 13, 2015 02:38
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gonadic io posted:V close to London Street station Hmm cool. I'm closer to canary wharf but pass through Stratford everyday and I think that's close to London Street (Liverpool station?). I still need to get used to the transport here but maybe in a week or two, sounds good
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Sep 13, 2015 02:55
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the talent deficit posted:i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer Frankly most companies would not want to hire a top 20% developer if it meant they had to pay them a top 20% salary. If they can get one for the average price, sure, but otherwise eeeeh.
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Sep 13, 2015 03:21
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my company seems to be unafraid to hire bottom 20% developers and unwilling to pay good salaries for good developers 
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Sep 13, 2015 04:00
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the talent deficit posted:i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer
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Sep 13, 2015 05:48
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Valeyard posted:Hmm cool. I'm closer to canary wharf but pass through Stratford everyday and I think that's close to London Street (Liverpool station?). I still need to get used to the transport here but maybe in a week or two, sounds good Yeah I did mean Liverpool Street
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Sep 13, 2015 06:43
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the talent deficit posted:i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer the secret to a good technical interview loop is to spend one (maybe two?) interviewer's time verifying technical proficiency and the rest learning how they act in the workplace and how they respond to various situations. this annoys developers because normally they can just ask their pet interview problem and check email instead of actively engaging with the interviewee, though
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Sep 13, 2015 07:35
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the talent deficit posted:i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer although the bottom 20% of developers is often actively bad for the code base and cause more issues than they fix going forward.
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Sep 13, 2015 07:52
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MeruFM posted:although the bottom 20% of developers is often actively bad for the code base and cause more issues than they fix going forward. How can this be so though, what organisation is hiring people with absolutely no reviewing of work, or pairing, or communication? If lovely developers can sink the ship, surely there's a lot more lovely developers and development processes in place already?
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Sep 13, 2015 08:39
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Maluco Marinero posted:How can this be so though, what organisation is hiring people with absolutely no reviewing of work, or pairing, or communication? Nearly every job I've worked at has a lax review processes. Review for style and some UAT if they give enough of a poo poo
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Sep 13, 2015 08:52
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GOTO second paragraph I guess then. If companies can't figure out to grow talent through review and collaboration then they deserve a shortage of effective developers.
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Sep 13, 2015 09:13
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MeruFM posted:although the bottom 20% of developers is often actively bad for the code base and cause more issues than they fix going forward. the talent deficit posted:this is the dumbest meme in tech. a bad manager or a bad culture can ruin a team but a bad hire can always be dealt with. just limit their responsibility to their capabilities or if you can't do that sideline them. if this seems unachievable to you see my point about management/culture and ask yourself if you're already hosed
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Sep 13, 2015 09:18
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if by sideline, you mean layoff, then yes that is possible. also congrats on wasting everyone's time hiring an unsuitable person so everyone has to go through the process again.
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Sep 13, 2015 09:32
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she's not saying hiring unsuitable people doesn't have downsides, she's saying that those downsides are worth it if it stops your hiring process from pissing off the part of the talent pool which gets to be picky about who they interview with
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Sep 13, 2015 09:36
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that makes sense rereading the original argument, i went into a tangent on my thought process
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Sep 13, 2015 09:47
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echinopsis posted:i suspect the coding market in christchurch new zealand isnt that ghreat. all my comp sci mates had to move to auckland at minimum and mostly sydney or further 
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Sep 13, 2015 12:36
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full? fulla cunts like you!
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Sep 13, 2015 12:38
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rippa!!
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Sep 13, 2015 12:55
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fart simpson posted:my company seems to be unafraid to hire bottom 20% developers
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Sep 13, 2015 12:57
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echinopsis posted:full? jony ive aces posted:gently caress off we're full 
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Sep 13, 2015 12:59
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Maluco Marinero posted:How can this be so though, what organisation is hiring people with absolutely no reviewing of work, or pairing, or communication? Almost any finance company? My interview consisted of being asked if I really want the job, everyone else ran away.
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Sep 13, 2015 17:42
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the talent deficit posted:i went to a conference where there was a panel discussion on how to hire great developers and the entirety of the discussion was strategies for avoiding hiring bad developers. some of the participants were advocating insanity like week long internships/try outs for senior developers or take home tests/projects that would take 20+ hours to complete. i asked if anyone thought that they were scaring off qualified developers (who always have other options) with their onerous hiring requirements and uniformly they claimed they would rather miss out on the top 20% of developers if it filtered out the bottom 20%. they literally would prefer to never hire a top 20% developer to avoid having to fire or manage out an underperforming developer Who, besides the most desperate of people, would consider taking a week long internship/try-out? Are you supposed to take a week-long vacation from your job or suspend your job search/classes for a week if you're in college?
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Sep 13, 2015 21:38
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it's the new American way. will smith did it and it was way longer than a week
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Sep 13, 2015 21:43
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echinopsis posted:it's the new American way. will smith did it and it was way longer than a week Wasn't he homeless in that movie?
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Sep 13, 2015 21:46
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yeah. with a son and some X-ray machines
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Sep 13, 2015 22:05
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what is a top 20% developer? a leader who can successfully define a software architecture then organize the team and execute the design? seems like the most valuable attributes an individual contributor can have are a base-level competency in the target language/platform and an agreeable attitude.
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Sep 13, 2015 22:06
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eschaton posted:yeah but the 53rd would probably be Knifecrime Island before Sheeps North & South the u.k. is 60 million people, it's not gonna surprise me when they can develop internal markets for vertical market software new zealand is the size of a midsize city imagine making millions of dollars selling pharmacy software specific to the needs of the detroit metro area
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Sep 13, 2015 22:41
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it's not that implausible. I had a quick look at the case of finland, as a developed country of similar size, and it too seems to have two local companies splitting the pharmacy software market. presumably it's just the kind of market where this can happen.
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Sep 13, 2015 22:54
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Barnyard Protein posted:what is a top 20% developer? a leader who can successfully define a software architecture then organize the team and execute the design? seems like the most valuable attributes an individual contributor can have are a base-level competency in the target language/platform and an agreeable attitude.
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Sep 13, 2015 22:58
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Barnyard Protein posted:what is a top 20% developer? a leader who can successfully define a software architecture then organize the team and execute the design? seems like the most valuable attributes an individual contributor can have are a base-level competency in the target language/platform and an agreeable attitude. top 20% devs are the office and azure teams at microsoft everyone else is being fired though so its a moving target
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Sep 13, 2015 23:02
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