|
Triglav posted:I can see product management like that coming into play, yeah, but can the A8 chip inside the Apple TV handle 4K rendering and playback? iOS devices have specific hardware for H.264 decoding, so one would imagine that to be the case here as well. I very much doubt it's happening on the CPU.
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
4K is the latest TV gimmick following the flaming death of 3D.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
except 4k content creation is a real thing being put into more peoples hands every day, 3d never had a chance
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 02:36
|
|
|
You know what happens when you throw in every feature just because you can? You get a piece of poo poo like Samsung phones as a result.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
As someone growing up in the 80s, I look at these ultra HD TVs and think it looks loving horrible. Am I alone here?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:As someone growing up in the 80s, I look at these ultra HD TVs and think it looks loving horrible. Am I alone here? As someone who did the same, I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean the high definition ruins your viewing experience or what?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:As someone growing up in the 80s, I look at these ultra HD TVs and think it looks loving horrible. Am I alone here? The gently caress are you talking about
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 03:22
|
|
|
I have no idea what being raised in the 80s has to do with anything, but maybe he's talking about the terrible judder correction that makes everything look like it's sped up in an awkward way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:As someone who did the same, I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean the high definition ruins your viewing experience or what? Not ruins it per se, it just appears unnatural to me, particularly movies. Yea, cityscapes and what not appear magnificent and ultra-detailed, but human forms for example come across as odd on many new TVs. My relatives have curved 4K TVs from Samsung and I just prefer watching films on, say, a high quality projector or old Plasma. The Modern Leper posted:I have no idea what being raised in the 80s has to do with anything, but maybe he's talking about the terrible judder correction that makes everything look like it's sped up in an awkward way. If you grow up exclusively with HD technology in media then your viewing experiences and expectations differ. It's why you see a lot of people prefer older music to not be digitally remastered. I think you're right though, and I felt similarly jarred when watching the new Spiderman movies. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 04:05
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:As someone who did the same, I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean the high definition ruins your viewing experience or what? Yeah man, like, where's my bodacious scan-lines?? Tubular!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 04:41
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:Not ruins it per se, it just appears unnatural to me, particularly movies. Yea, cityscapes and what not appear magnificent and ultra-detailed, but human forms for example come across as odd on many new TVs. My relatives have curved 4K TVs from Samsung and I just prefer watching films on, say, a high quality projector or old Plasma. You aren't talking about "HD" though; frame interpolation (often nicknamed "soap opera effect") is a separate thing. Most TV's allow you to turn it off. If you watch a well mastered movie (even an older one) on a new set without it I assure you the picture is still far superior to anything from that era, having grown up in the 70's/80's myself. And it looks more "natural" i.e. film-like.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 05:24
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:...but human forms for example come across as odd on many new TVs. Are you by chance watching TVs owned by those weirdos who aren't bothered by aspect ratio problems? Lots of people use the default scaling options, which stretch the picture to avoid letter boxing. It's also a garbage way of doing things for morons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 05:32
|
|
|
Triglav posted:Anecdotal, but I really have a hard time believing the planned obsolescence talk when the Apple stuff I buy greatly outlives anything else my friends and family buy. Yah. Calling BS on that an iPhone 3G had 128mb and topped out at 4.2.1 and OpenGL Es 1. If you don't consider three generations of the Os obsolete or unable to play any game on the App Store, I'm not sure what you would.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
I think they mean the frame interpolation that most newer TVs seem to have on by default. I'm not a fan either. However, for stuff that is actually shot at 60 fps, the future is glorious.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 06:24
|
|
|
EDIT: drat, I got beaten hard. That's what happens when I leave my phone alone halfway through a post... Planned obsolescence exists, but it isn't nearly as central to Apple's MO as people like my mom make it out to be. The iPad 2 was more than twice as powerful as the original iPad because of Moore's law, not because Apple had it sitting in a vault for a year going "let's wait until enough people have bought the old one." ARM development is still very much in the "exponentially growing every year" phase that, say, Intel's x86 stuff isn't at the moment. Every new feature hinges on the capability of the computer bits powering it and all that jive. That said, there's no excuse for the iPad mini 3. As for 4k, the more I think about it the more sense it makes for Apple to have left it off. There simply isn't enough penetrance or general network infrastructure capability to make it worth the investment- and Apple would absolutely have to invest in supporting it. If you build in 4k capability (and you're Apple and you want to create a seamless Apple experience to establish this new product), then eeeeverything has to be made to look good in both 4k and 1080p (because otherwise what's the point?). So then you also have to decide whether to push your developers to make their apps 4k friendly or leave it up to the market (which would likely result in no 4k apps to speak of since devs wouldn't want to sink time into resource-intensive apps). Also, it's basically impossible for 99.999% of PCs to game competently in 4k- so imagine the prospects for a box powered by an A8. And 4k apps and assets are a lot bigger than HD. They take up a lot of room and they're a lot more network-hungry. I could go on. XyrlocShammypants posted:If you grow up exclusively with HD technology in media then your viewing experiences and expectations differ. It's why you see a lot of people prefer older music to not be digitally remastered. I think you're right though, and I felt similarly jarred when watching the new Spiderman movies. Are we sure we're not all just talking about the soap opera effect? http://hometheaterreview.com/what-is-soap-opera-effect-and-how-to-make-it-go-away/ trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Sep 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
Electric Bugaloo, that actually makes a lot of sense. If they ever do release a 4k Apple TV they'll probably want to do it as part of a big push for 4k on the Apple ecosystem. iTunes movies, apps, etc. I know there have been rumors of 4k iTunes media but I have no idea when that will become actually feasible. It still seems a little weird to have the new iPhones do 4k video with no official Apple way to display it on a TV, but it must have been easy enough to throw in due to the constant camera upgrades or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 08:00
|
|
|
Electric Bugaloo posted:f you build in 4k capability (and you're Apple and you want to create a seamless Apple experience to establish this new product) What about the seamless experience of shooting 4k video on my new iPhone and then going to another device to play it back in that resolution, which is what started this to begin with? Or the seamless Apple experience that is Apple Music? Apple has a history of being ahead of the curve (removing physical media, Thunderbolt, Displayport). I expected them to not be beat by Amazon Fire TV but if the rumors are true it's sounds like they will. All of this being said if Apple nails the interface (which they haven't previously on ATV or recently in other projects), usability and the app store takes off none of it matters. 4k certainly isn't that prevalent yet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 08:29
|
|
|
If Apple cared about the bandwidth problem, they would have included HEVC in the Apple TV. And UHD TVs probably look weird to people, because those people watch the storefront configuration which make the image looks like crap with very weird movement due to a bunch of settings that should just be turned off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 12:15
|
|
|
I hope 4k is never adopted and goes the way of glasses 3, curved screens and D-VHS. If we as a civilization are ever going to snuff out 720p and 1080i, it needs to be a new sea-change, not a small uptick in quality. Apple with its retina obsession and supply chain might could be the ones to push for an eventual 8k/120hz/high bitrate monstrosity spec across multiple industry segments Or else its just another NTSC situation where it lingers for decades because no new standard is dominant enough to get the broadcast TV people to have the FCC tell them change.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
If I had any other expectation that Apple would only renew the Apple TV every three years, I wouldn't care as much as I do about 4K. I just don't see them updating it regularly, especially since they did such a poo poo job at promoting the videogame aspect, which would be the main incentive to get people to upgrade an existing one. 4K doesn't exist outside of some YouTube videos and novelty releases, and Netflix requires you to pay extra for a 4K subscription to even view content in 4K, so it's not a pressing concern. But it may be relevant in one, two, or three years. More than anything, I don't see how this passes the "Why not" test of including it. Especially when the new iPhones shoot in 4K. Maybe they need to update the Thunderbolt Displays.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
If Apple is ever going to move beyond 1080p they'll have to give their users more than 16gb of storage. I'm beginning to think it will never happen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 19:04
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:Yah. Calling BS on that an iPhone 3G had 128mb and topped out at 4.2.1 and OpenGL Es 1. If you don't consider three generations of the Os obsolete or unable to play any game on the App Store, I'm not sure what you would. How is that in any way planned? Having a product that still functions at least the same as the day you bought it is not planned obsolescence. Having a product with substandard or faulty components that is designed to fail after a few years is planned obsolescence. Are old cars now obsolete because they don't have air bags, blind spot detection and backup cameras? I still use an original iPhone to play music on in my garage. It suits my needs and does everything is did since day one. It may be lacking in new features but it is no way obsolete. FCKGW fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
sellouts posted:What about the seamless experience of shooting 4k video on my new iPhone and then going to another device to play it back in that resolution, which is what started this to begin with? Or the seamless Apple experience that is Apple Music? 1) It's been mentioned before: There are 5k iMacs (and 21" 4k ones coming out in the next month or two) that will let you watch and edit 4k in all of its native glory. And 1080 downscaled from 4k tends to look better than 1080 shot natively. Also- lots (LOTS) of people use their iPhones to shoot photos and video for a lot of different purposes. 4k gives the iPhone camera feature parity with GoPros and other mini cameras. 2) What does Apple Music have to do with any of this? It's not like it streams in some ultra-high bandwidth lossless format that other Apple devices can't play. And even if it were lossless- Apple TVs and Airport Expresses have been able to handle and stream lossless (AirPlay) for years.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Interestingly I didn't pay attention to the new iPhone news (usually I'm all over it...) but the. I heard about the 4k (and I have a 5k iMac) so I preordered one, because that sounds fun. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
Bass Bottles posted:If Apple is ever going to move beyond 1080p they'll have to give their users more than 16gb of storage. I'm beginning to think it will never happen. They do but you have to stop being cheap and buy the model that has it. You're spending $650 on a phone, what's another $100?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:Yah. Calling BS on that an iPhone 3G had 128mb and topped out at 4.2.1 and OpenGL Es 1. If you don't consider three generations of the Os obsolete or unable to play any game on the App Store, I'm not sure what you would. I don't think I ever went past iPhone OS 3 or 4 if that's what "4.2.1" means, yeah. Apps crashing, no longer receiving updates, or my being unable to try out new ones is part of why I upgraded. That plus retina and the 5S's camera. But the phone still works today with a pay-as-you-go SIM. And it's not like that previously mentioned crashing was because Apple pulled some "planned obsolescence" lever when it was just app developers making things for modern hardware. I'll admit to using the phone more as a phone and not a gameboy, though. Calls, texts, emails, alarms, notes, photos, music, weather, calculator, Twitter, Yelp... It still does all that today, but it's definitely much nicer on my 5S, plus now I can use Vine, Snapchat, Health, Siri, iCloud synchronization stuff... Maybe I don't use my phone like some people out there, but it's not like Apple bricked my 3G after releasing the 3GS. Anyway, 4K: I really suspect the choice was made more along the lines of "we have a bunch of these old iPhone chips and adding 4K right now would raise the base price too much for too little benefit in the current environment." I'm sure the next one will have 4K, but 4K TVs don't have much market penetration right this moment. I mean, I hope it's not normal for people to buy new TVs every year. I know Apple has a tendency to take the lead in introducing new tech, but the Apple TV still shares shelf space with Chromecasts and Rokus, and all three play Netflix the same. The Apple TV's defining features right now are Airplay, the App Store, and iTunes. Next time around it'll have 4K, iTunes 4K, Netflix 4K, and those rumored TV channel packages. Hopefully by then, since two different 1080p devices will be running apps and larger iPads will be running two apps side by side, devs will have actually updated their apps to that automatic scaling system Apple recommended they do two years ago, and apps running at 4K won't look like 720p.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
Yeah all the griping about 4K seems like missing the forest for the trees to me. There's very little 4K video content out there, let alone 4K gaming. This will not be a real problem outside of spec nerds.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
When the AppleTV2 was released, 1080p was already a very common thing. It's not surprising that they wouldn't adopt 4K when 1080p is just fine.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 02:50
|
|
|
Electric Bugaloo posted:
Because it's a compete debacle with far more money behind it than AppleTv, which shows that your point of "and you're Apple and you want to create a seamless Apple experience to establish this new product)" is nonsense. They're capable of being short sighted and bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 06:02
|
|
|
sellouts posted:Because it's a compete debacle with far more money behind it than AppleTv, which shows that your point of "and you're Apple and you want to create a seamless Apple experience to establish this new product)" is nonsense. They're capable of being short sighted and bad. Actually Apple Music is cool and good and I've never had a single issue with it. My anecdotal evidence of it being a perfect streaming service is just as valid as the anecdotal evidence of tech bloggers crying about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 06:52
|
|
|
Really? You're going to stand by that experience as a user? To each their own in that regard I guess. However I'm not going on anecdotes. I wish I could share the data we have on it. But to say it's underwhelming in all but the biggest pop songs/artists is an understatement in comparison to other streaming services.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
You're trying to make something that's subjective into an objective thing and it just don work like that
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 07:14
|
|
|
If Nvidia can release a 200 dollar STB that allows 4k Netflix, then so could Apple. They don't because Apple people have more disposable income than most and will buy every 0.5 version of their hardware.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 07:24
|
|
Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
|
TheJoker138 posted:Actually Apple Music is cool and good and I've never had a single issue with it. My anecdotal evidence of it being a perfect streaming service is just as valid as the anecdotal evidence of tech bloggers crying about it. Yeah Apple Music has been fantastic for me.  I didn't even know people were complaining about it. All my coworkers/family love it. The only real complaint I hear is the lack of the Beatles catalog.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 08:27
|
|
|
Aeka 2.0 posted:If Nvidia can release a 200 dollar STB that allows 4k Netflix, then so could Apple. They don't because Apple people have more disposable income than most and will buy every 0.5 version of their hardware. Alternatively, the sort of person who would buy a $200 Android-powered Nvidia STB is going to be a lot more forgiving of a disjointed and spotty 4k experience, with large parts of the OS and the vast bulk of apps and content available for it limited to 1080p. Hell, by the time there's enough media and app compatibility to make buying a 4k TV and set top box worthwhile the chipset in that Shield's gonna be long-outdated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 08:52
|
|
|
noirstronaut posted:You're trying to make something that's subjective into an objective thing and it just don work like that Subscription rates, market share, keeping users, and engagement of those users isn't subjective though. Music accounting requires relatively stringent reporting at the usage level. Subscriptions not so much which is why Tidal can make the claims that they do. There's a lot of data on it and some of it is out there. There were projections made and in my experience with a larger set of data that what is public facing it's not hitting. I'm glad people like Apple Music, them liking it helps artists I work with, but it shows that Apple can miss the mark and it happens more frequently as they expand beyond iPhone and iPad and into new types of media consumption. I think the physical swipe of the Apple TV remote is great if people realize it's there. Adoption rate of uhd blu ray and other streaming will likely be very slow for several of the reasons others have posted. It just seems a little odd for a company that brought 5k monitors to a wide reaching consumer desktop and pushed 15" retina displays back when almost every single non native app and website looked like poo poo on them to not also push resolution on the Apple TV. sellouts fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Sep 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 11:38
|
|
|
sellouts posted:Subscription rates, market share, keeping users, and engagement of those users isn't subjective though. Music accounting requires relatively stringent reporting at the usage level. Subscriptions not so much which is why Tidal can make the claims that they do. Right, but we're talking about how the service is perfect for one guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 12:19
|
|
|
BGrifter posted:Yeah Apple Music has been fantastic for me. Read the Apple Music thread, and you will see some of the complaints. The biggest is how bad the UI functions. Honestly the UI flow is just bad and confusing at times. Also other errors like not been able to go to an album of a song when listening to recommended playlist (you get unknown album, I just tested it), to having to reboot your phone due to it not recognizing your subscription (I am pretty sure this has been fixed, since I've not seen it in weeks) to adding songs to playlist without adding to your music first (stupid). Also my biggest complaint regarding the library is serious lack of regional and local indie artist despite being on Spotify. I take it is the artist fault, that they just haven't made it available yet. Still pretty frustrating for someone who is into their regional scene. That said the biggest complaint by most is the UI flow. Oh I'm sure some will find it just fine, but subjectively it is so bad, that it is like someone besides Apple made it. Unsure if I'm going to stick to it (that family plan deal is a good price), or come back in a year.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 15:44
|
|
|
The UI on Apple Music drives me absolutely crazy, especially when they should have just started with the baseline of "be like Spotify" and added features, not made it worse. My free trial ends Oct. 1st, and I just turned off auto renew. I like being able to talk to my phone to load a song in the car, but that's about it.
thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
thrawn527 posted:The UI on Apple Music drives me absolutely crazy, especially when they should have just started with the baseline of "be like Spotify" and added features, not made it worse. My free trial ends Oct. 1st, and I just turned off auto renew. I like being able to talk to my phone to load a song in the car, but that's about it. Besides the weird offline stuff (which was just a misunderstanding on my part) Apple Music has worked flawlessly for me. I prefer the playlists here vs on Spotify and the price is better for several people on our plan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 18:04
|
|