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if he is i will probably actually stop reading this comic
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Sep 12, 2015 10:40
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Rei_ posted:this is like a bad scooby doo movie where they unmask the groundskeeper after the big chase but then like oh no, the Headless Hash Slinging Slasher was totally real because ghosts and magic are real and Velma's like hold up we need to unpack th- CREDITS Would you say it has an almost improvisational tone?
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Sep 12, 2015 11:30
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Go read Kill Six Billion Demons instead if you're not already. http://killsixbilliondemons.com/
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Sep 13, 2015 00:40
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What if they pull a surprise ending an furnace reveals the reason he's so unhappy was because he was raped. Then he hugs and cries with the crazy murder lady and everyone forgets this ever happened.
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Sep 13, 2015 00:43
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Say Nothing posted:Go read Kill Six Billion Demons instead if you're not already.
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Sep 13, 2015 01:47
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yo loving seriously go read K6BD because it's the illest poo poo currently happening in webcomics
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Sep 13, 2015 03:48
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The Lord of Hats posted:Yeah, a lot for me depends on what Allison's reaction to all of this is. As people have said, and as Moonshadow herself kind of points out, Allison's moral ground here is not nearly as solid as she would like it to be, but if she is at all convinced that Moonshadow is vindicated, just... ugh. So even with those deaths on her conscious she still has grounds to tell Mary about why her actions are bullshit. I don't want the next few pages to be just Allison listening to Mary, and the authors trying to make her out as some tragic hero. Mary has murdered people in cold blood; and in some cases in ways more brutal than the crimes her victims committed. She has done so with glee and no shame for what she's done. This whole "I had to be sure he was guilty" and "I picked this dam so that nobody would be hurt in the highly unlikely event that the fire person I kidnapped doesn't go nuclear and destroy it" is a massive contrivance. People should be drowning, property should be damaged, there should be helicopters swarming this area trying to find out why this hydroelectric dam just collapsed. For a comic whose central theme deals with the reality of real world problems juxtaposed with comic book hero idealism; it shouldn't allow anything that Mary has done to be framed as justifiable. Which as Wittgen has pointed out isn't that unlikely anyways since people in this thread, and in the comment section of the main comic, already endorse Mary's actions.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:06
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I still have no idea what Cio should sound like. I have a generic idea of valley girl for the protagonist but who knows.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:21
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I know it's got a bit of a WE MUST KILL MORE AND MORE AND MORE thing going on but creating a K6BD thread via the violent hijacking of an existing thread might be getting a little too into it.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:And it's not just rapists Mary has been murdering, the chapter started out with her killing a man for beating his wife, when that would be solvable with some jail time. The judge was beating his wife, yes, but I don't think that's why Moonshadow killed him. The implications are twofold: -He knowingly let rapists get away with a gang rape, likely as a part of a "boys will be boys" outlook (at least, this is probably how Moonshadow sees it). -He did some terrible things to his daughters before they grew up and moved away, hence his wife's question to him of "Why don't our daughters visit us anymore?" Mary's reason for killing him could be either of those, given her M.O., though I suspect it's more the former than the latter. That said, the main thrust of your argument holds, I just wanted to dispute this detail.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:50
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wiegieman posted:I still have no idea what Cio should sound like. I have a generic idea of valley girl for the protagonist but who knows.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:40
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wiegieman posted:I still have no idea what Cio should sound like. I have a generic idea of valley girl for the protagonist but who knows. If you want to know what accent a demon from Hell has, I think you'll have to hunt down various old tomes of forgotten lore and dabble in transdimensional physics. Failing that, just assume it's cockney.
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Sep 13, 2015 08:38
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Fish Noise posted:I know it's got a bit of a WE MUST KILL MORE AND MORE AND MORE thing going on but creating a K6BD thread via the violent hijacking of an existing thread might be getting a little too into it. It is a far better thing than we have ever done, a far better rest than we have ever known.
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Sep 13, 2015 09:30
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Falstaff posted:-He did some terrible things to his daughters before they grew up and moved away, hence his wife's question to him of "Why don't our daughters visit us anymore?" Just to be more specific, he sexually assaulted them. That is what the comic is telling us in that scene. Everyone Moonshadow kills was a rapist. There isn't any point to her character if that isn't the case. We've talked about it before, but the moral question with her is supposed to be: is it okay to kill guilty people in the way she's been doing?
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Sep 13, 2015 13:34
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Simply asking us to accept that Moonshadow can somehow flawlessly determine guilt, and any worry that her victims might have been innocent (of breaking the law, anyway) is unfounded, bothers me. The entire loving point of the justice system is to determine guilt or innocence in a way that eliminates human bias as much as possible, and the punishment that comes after, whether it is the death penalty or something else, is handling that determination in a consistent manner. Hand-waving it by essentially saying "Here's Moonshadow. She can flawlessly accomplish the job of the justice system. How do you feel about her killing those who are guilty of rape/sexual assault?" just feels nonsensical in that case. The question isn't even concerned with vigilantism at that point. It is at most a question of how the reader feels about the death penalty for sexual offenders. tl;dr there's no point to the story without the possibility that she's wrong about at least some of her victims, but the comic completely glosses over it and asks for the assumption that she isn't.
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Sep 13, 2015 14:48
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Oh, you can definitely have the possibility of her being wrong; that's one of the major problems with vigilantism and I really do hope that Alison brings it up. I suppose it would have been more correct for me to say that the question is whether it's okay to kill people that you are absolutely certain are rapists, in the sense that you've gathered all the evidence yourself and believe it.
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Sep 13, 2015 15:07
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Slashrat posted:Hand-waving it by essentially saying "Here's Moonshadow. She can flawlessly accomplish the job of the justice system. How do you feel about her killing those who are guilty of rape/sexual assault?" just feels nonsensical in that case. The question isn't even concerned with vigilantism at that point. It is at most a question of how the reader feels about the death penalty for sexual offenders. The issue of vigilantism was addressed previously: it's okay to kill illegal immigrants, remember?
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Sep 13, 2015 18:30
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idonotlikepeas posted:Just to be more specific, he sexually assaulted them. That is what the comic is telling us in that scene. Everyone Moonshadow kills was a rapist. There isn't any point to her character if that isn't the case. But that makes her guilty of murder, therefore someone has to kill her. Then someone has to kill them. Look, we're going to run out of people eventually.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:31
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I've gone so far out of my way to make sure that everyone I've kidnapped, tortured, murdered, and whose corpses I've mutilated deserved it. And they're still going to say I turned villain.  Look where this comic has gone my goodness I am totally shocked!!!
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Sep 14, 2015 11:31
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Captain Bravo posted:The hilarious part is that FF is also misreading authorial intent, and decided to keep arguing that point after literally being told from the author what the intent was. So that got a good laugh out of me. I know right? I'm still laughing!!
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Sep 14, 2015 12:01
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Nuebot posted:But that makes her guilty of murder, therefore someone has to kill her. Then someone has to kill them. Look, we're going to run out of people eventually. This is another problem with vigilantism, yeah. I mean, what if one of those rapists had a relative who decided that Moonshadow's murder of him was much worse than the rape he committed, for instance? This is one reason we make justice a systemic thing, to try to prevent endless cycles of revenge. This isn't even a new idea; it's arguably the point of The Oresteia by Aeschylus (particularly The Eumenides, the third part), which was written roughly 2500 years ago. If Alison had been paying more attention to her research on ancient Greece at the beginning of this chapter, she might have been able to cite this.
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Sep 14, 2015 14:10
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Jackard posted:I don't get that accent either the thas mark it as a yorkshire accent, i think?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:35
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The Lord of Hats posted:Yeah, a lot for me depends on what Allison's reaction to all of this is. As people have said, and as Moonshadow herself kind of points out, Allison's moral ground here is not nearly as solid as she would like it to be, but if she is at all convinced that Moonshadow is vindicated, just... ugh. Brought To You By posted:Even though Allison is just as guilty of using her powers to kill people she didn't like, it was nothing on this scale. When Allison cops to having killed people before, it's framed as an unintentional byproduct of her incredible strength, which jibes with the death we saw on screen. When the gently caress, exactly, did all of this turn into blood-soaked cheerful mass murder on the part of not only Allison but every superhero?
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Sep 15, 2015 17:09
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I don't mean to say that Allison was some murderer like Moonshadow is, because she definitely isn't. She was reckless, but she was never murderous. But the fact that she has killed people, even though it wasn't the same kind of cold-blooded deliberation, means that somebody could write her off as hypocritical if they were inclined to do so, and that she herself is going to be a little less confident about being the right person to make the argument that needs to be made.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:43
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The Lord of Hats posted:I don't mean to say that Allison was some murderer like Moonshadow is, because she definitely isn't.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:58
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Yeah, the comic rather elegantly put the whole "you're not really human, what do you know?" issue to bed in issue 4 with the younger sister and the "I can't save Dad" bit. I'm not sure why it keeps dredging it up other than for a cheap privilege metaphor.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:14
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CapnAndy posted:No, I'm not angry at you guys, I'm angry at the comic. Because it is trying to make exactly that comparison and has been doing so for this entire chapter and I'm calling bullshit. Surely you are just misreading ~authorial intent~ my good friend  In this issue, Alison pats Mary's hand as they commiserate over just how darn hard it is to be a superhero.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:31
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"I'm sorry I tried to slit your throat, Allison, that sure was crazy of me. Now excuse me for a second where I talk about my chief regret being that all that murdering people I did didn't magically make the world a better place, and may have actually made it substantially worse, and not really the murders themselves!"
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Sep 16, 2015 01:08
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Mary is basically Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 02:10
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I'mma let Flesh Forge have this, he's earned it.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:35
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Good things really do come to those who wait  e: don't mind me I'm just reviewing the thread and all the insightful commentary therein Bruceski posted:Allison and Moonshadow get a chance to bond and talk things out while killing him together. Strangely prophetic Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 03:19
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The Lord of Hats posted:"I'm sorry I tried to slit your throat, Allison, that sure was crazy of me. Now excuse me for a second where I talk about my chief regret being that all that murdering people I did didn't magically make the world a better place, and may have actually made it substantially worse, and not really the murders themselves!" "It was so crazy of me to try and kill you, but I fully assure you that I'm not at all crazy, even though I'm fully aware that being mired in fear and hatred will make you go crazy, please feel sorry for me. I'm the real victim here"
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Sep 16, 2015 05:31
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look, she just needs to convince allison that she's not completely gone until she's far enough away allison can't find her
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Sep 16, 2015 05:33
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The Lord of Hats posted:"I'm sorry I tried to slit your throat, Allison, that sure was crazy of me. Now excuse me for a second where I talk about my chief regret being that all that murdering people I did didn't magically make the world a better place, and may have actually made it substantially worse, and not really the murders themselves!" "I've also ensured that every rape victim I decided to "avenge" can be implicated in conspiracy and/or accessory to murder should the full extent of my involvement in these killings ever be brought to light. So instead of them remaining invisible, their names can be dragged through the mud by the law and mass media for their part in these crimes."
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Sep 16, 2015 06:17
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Tollymain posted:look, she just needs to convince allison that she's not completely gone until she's far enough away allison can't find her No, she's going to try this but Alison is going to be forced kill her and everyone will cry and it will be covered up by her government handlers and that will be the end of this chapter.
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Sep 16, 2015 08:28
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So I like to read webcomic comments because they're usually really awful and I notice something that made me laugh about SFP's comments. They've been deleting pretty much anything that is even slightly critical of the current arc. There were a bunch earlier that were fairly reasonably written saying that they didn't like the way the chapter was handled and now they're all gone so that only the "this is so sad my feels" comments remain.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:48
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Straight-up diva mode.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:55
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It just loving looks like he's a dude writing a storyline about an issue he has no way of comprehending the interpersonal nuances of and the writing of the arc falls the gently caress apart as we watch him try to figure it out in real time. It's not entirely a fantastical story where the nuances can be invented (like, superheroes), it's a story based on things that happen irl all the drat time and you can't like, half-rear end that kind of narrative because the weaknesses in the writing are so much more apparent.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:54
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Nuebot posted:So I like to read webcomic comments because they're usually really awful and I notice something that made me laugh about SFP's comments. They've been deleting pretty much anything that is even slightly critical of the current arc. There were a bunch earlier that were fairly reasonably written saying that they didn't like the way the chapter was handled and now they're all gone so that only the "this is so sad my feels" comments remain. That would be a bit weird, since they've got full moderation turned on - they're hand-approving every comment before it appears on the comic anyway. (They've said they might stop doing that after the comic stops being about rape.) It might just be that they got sorted below the "load more comments" line at the bottom, since Disqus sorts things based on how many times they're upvoted, not chronologically, and it's unlikely that criticism of the comic is getting upvoted by the readers. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, just that it would be weird. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 16:01
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Nuebot posted:So I like to read webcomic comments because they're usually really awful and I notice something that made me laugh about SFP's comments. They've been deleting pretty much anything that is even slightly critical of the current arc. There were a bunch earlier that were fairly reasonably written saying that they didn't like the way the chapter was handled and now they're all gone so that only the "this is so sad my feels" comments remain. I mean it is pretty sad that the horrific serial killer is pretending like they are a hero, just more in the "the quality of the writing saddens me" way than actual tragedy. I guess that for some people it is unconscionable that rape victims are not able to perform a dark ritual to summon a murderous ghost to torture and kill the rapist.
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Sep 16, 2015 20:28
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