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gradenko_2000 posted:Any chance that Oz will change attitudes towards refugees now that Abbott's out? Doubt it. That's one of Abbott's most popular policies.
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Sep 14, 2015 18:12
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Effectronica posted:The counterpoint is that the amount of resources necessary to support refugees is far from bankrupting European countries, and this is so obvious that there's little point in explicitly stating this. That's true for Europe as a whole. But I can actually believe Greek politicians that they cannot afford to properly care for all the refugees that cross from Turkey into their country, especially if the other EU countries keep refusing to help.
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Sep 14, 2015 18:23
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Torrannor posted:That's true for Europe as a whole. But I can actually believe Greek politicians that they cannot afford to properly care for all the refugees that cross from Turkey into their country, especially if the other EU countries keep refusing to help. The situation on Lesbos was much better in the last days than two weeks ago, though. Although the refugee stream even grew a little bit bigger, but the Greek intermediate government was actually able to organise a functioning aid team. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/germany-stretched-capacity-refugee-surge-150913110111973.html (In the video they talk about Greece)
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Sep 14, 2015 18:35
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Some interesting numbers: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/04/world/europe/europe-refugee-distribution.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/10/world/europe/scale-of-migrant-crisis-in-europe.html
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Sep 14, 2015 22:32
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Nonsense posted:Reminder the UK expenses scandal is probably all over Euro parliaments as well, so basically gently caress off with this "woe is us poor Europeans". They're all crooked bastards, squeeze 'em with taxes and get these people housed and fed. Also the United States should be looking at way way more than only 65,000. If given the option would refugees really want to come to America? Europe's the place with the social safety nets, the universal healthcare, the mandatory vacations, etc. If Europe has the resources to handle everyone and according to you guys they do, why should America take anyone who would not be able to handle our 'gently caress you got mine' society, it would be cruel imo.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:52
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But don't you understand? The USA has the American Dream! They want their little white picket fences!
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Sep 14, 2015 22:59
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Yeah let's be honest, why in the everloving gently caress would you choose America over any western European country if you're a Syrian refugee, or a person with a functioning brain?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:13
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mikemil828 posted:If given the option would refugees really want to come to America? Europe's the place with the social safety nets, the universal healthcare, the mandatory vacations, etc. If Europe has the resources to handle everyone and according to you guys they do, why should America take anyone who would not be able to handle our 'gently caress you got mine' society, it would be cruel imo. Uh I think they're looking for a place with homes that aren't destroyed and a first world standard of living. Hope that helps.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:14
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Radbot posted:Yeah let's be honest, why in the everloving gently caress would you choose America over any western European country if you're a Syrian refugee, or a person with a functioning brain? Because if it's a choice between "stay in Syria" and "get the gently caress out of Syria", it's not much of a choice? e: Also,  @Americans going "why would anyone ever want to come here?"
my dad fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 23:15
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It's always funny seeing the (typically right-wing) governments of the Anglophone countries boasting about how amazing they've made said country to be and then getting really upset when all the nations we've pillaged and murdered turn up at our doorstep asking for a share of the prosperity.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:27
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Did I say funny? I meant gross and depressing.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:28
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Radbot posted:Yeah let's be honest, why in the everloving gently caress would you choose America over any western European country if you're a Syrian refugee, or a person with a functioning brain? my dad posted:Because if it's a choice between "stay in Syria" and "get the gently caress out of Syria", it's not much of a choice? Cocoa Ninja posted:The NY Times has a brief breakdown of the 250,000 confirmed killed so far in the civil war: Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Jesus. That's a sizable fraction of Syria's population. How long until Syria is just straight-up depopulated? In 2011 Syria had about 23 million permanent inhabitants, which means literally half of Syria's population are either refugees, internally displaced, or dead right now. Syria is depopulated at this point, and it's only going to get worse. Right now "any port in a storm" means loving any port in a storm when you're escaping from poo poo that bad. fade5 fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 23:39
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attackmole posted:Uh I think they're looking for a place with homes that aren't destroyed and a first world standard of living. Hope that helps. my dad posted:Because if it's a choice between "stay in Syria" and "get the gently caress out of Syria", it's not much of a choice? There are places a lot closer than America where they can get that. Anyway if I was in their shoes and given an option on where to go, I'd go to Norway. I may be an American but even know that America is not exactly the best option if you have nothing.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:44
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mikemil828 posted:There are places a lot closer than America where they can get that. Anyway if I was in their shoes and given an option on where to go, I'd go to Norway. I may be an American but even know that America is not exactly the best option if you have nothing. It's not the best option, but it's not exactly "bad" either. Every place has its problems. You're also forgetting that there are Syrian refugees with family members or contacts who are already in the US, making it a more attractive destination than some random European country; also, some already speak English at least a little bit, which makes Anglophone countries seem much more attractive than countries where you don't speak the language at all. There are plenty of reasons why a refugee might, all other things being equal, prefer to settle in the US.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:51
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mikemil828 posted:There are places a lot closer than America where they can get that. Anyway if I was in their shoes and given an option on where to go, I'd go to Norway. I may be an American but even know that America is not exactly the best option if you have nothing. It's a very convenient excuse. And is nothing more than an excuse. You aren't in their shoes. I mean, unless your life is in danger and you need to run right now, and are trying to figure how not to die in the short, medium, and long term. US could help them move, which would be the right thing to do considering how much US fuckups contributed to the situation. Helps skip the bits about drowning in the Mediterranean, being robbed by bandits, being beaten half-to-death by a Hungarian policeman and half-starved in an overcrowded camp, or suffocating to death in a truck in Austria. But nope, the Atlantic ocean got in the way, what an insurmountable obstacle to the richest nation on Earth! Hell, I've recently learned that some minority communities in US are trying to organize taking in a number of refugee families on their own initiative, almost as if they had a sense of empathy and basic human decency, yet it's too much of a hassle for the Real AmericanTM to even consider.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:02
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Let's compromise and have the US help resettle refugees in Europe.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:05
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EA has a new article covering 9 myths about refugees. http://eaworldview.com/2015/09/syria-and-beyond-feature-9-myths-about-refugees-and-how-to-answer-them/
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Sep 15, 2015 00:08
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computer parts posted:Let's compromise and have the US help resettle refugees in Europe. I'm not sure Guam could handle the volume this time.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:11
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Tesseraction posted:I'm not sure Guam could handle the volume this time. Was Operation New Life a bad thing? E: That's what I figured, I wasn't trying to sass. From a logistics angle, it is a pretty brilliant approach so long as it doesn't just become a semi-permanent ghetto. osker fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 00:30
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Absolutely not. I was more making a joke about the scale of the problem more than genuinely suggesting America shouldn't help. Mostly the joke is made because I know the American political climate prevents help from being offered.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:36
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Huckabee with a scorching hot take on the refugee crisis.quote:Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee says European nations are forgetting the “lessons of 9/11” by allowing “alleged-Syrian refugees” into their countries. http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/huckabee-europeans-accepting-alleged-syrian-refugees-have-fo?utm_term=.hi1NOGXDVj#.usxlgO75N
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Sep 15, 2015 01:11
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Case in point.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:25
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Nonsense posted:Apparently Swedish politicians want to put refugees on remote islands, and Swedes are saying refugees would be ungrateful to oppose this measure, and that they've already obtained a better life "without lifting a finger". Uh, do you have a source for that? I haven't seen anything in Swedish media about it, and we don't have any remote islands. 
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Sep 15, 2015 05:53
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Fader Movitz posted:Uh, do you have a source for that? I haven't seen anything in Swedish media about it, and we don't have any remote islands. Sorry Norwegian politicians. Wrong country. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-10498859.html
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Sep 15, 2015 06:25
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Being fair using Svalbard's large low-populated landmass to deal with a large influx of refugees isn't the worst idea I've ever heard, although one could question the decision to move people from a country near the equator to one near the Arctic. You're right, though, it does smack of passing the buck.
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Sep 15, 2015 09:31
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mikemil828 posted:If given the option would refugees really want to come to America? Europe's the place with the social safety nets, the universal healthcare, the mandatory vacations, etc. If Europe has the resources to handle everyone and according to you guys they do, why should America take anyone who would not be able to handle our 'gently caress you got mine' society, it would be cruel imo. Your self-awareness about your own society's faults is refreshing given the amazing mix of geographical illiteracy, neo-exceptionalist mythology and nimbyism that American posters constantly inflict on this thread. But your optimism about ours is misplaced. France and Spain treat their immigrants at least as poorly as the States (6/10 young prisoners in France are children of recent immigrants, for example), they're just smart enough not to give everyone involved heavy weaponry so the problem is possibly less striking. It's only a small number of Northern European countries that have integrated ethnic minorities in a semi-functional manner and those societies still aren't anything to shout about. Eastern Europe and the borderline fascists in Hungary are going to end up rehousing a large number of refugees as things stand so America and Australia (lmao at the idea of those guys stepping up though) are definitely preferable options. lmaoboy1998 fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 09:37
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lmaoboy1998 posted:borderline fascists in Hungary Quite literally!
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Sep 15, 2015 09:39
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I don't think reinstating border controls is bad, because that simply helps process migrants. Some migrant children have disappeared in Sweden because they just showed up on train station and somebody picked them up (hopefully relatives). I don't have much faith in Hungary, though.
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Sep 15, 2015 10:09
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lmaoboy1998 posted:(6/10 young prisoners in France are children of recent immigrants, for example) Ever considered that this might suggest a problem with the immigrants and not with France?
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Sep 15, 2015 11:43
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Aumanor posted:Ever considered that this might suggest a problem with the immigrants and not with France? Ever taken the slightest look at France's housing, economic and law enforcement policies towards immigrants?
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Sep 15, 2015 11:58
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Aumanor posted:Ever considered that this might suggest a problem with the immigrants and not with France? Accounting for the socioeconomic background, immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the white natives. Truth is that whitey is evil and degenerate.
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Sep 15, 2015 12:03
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A 2009 statistical survey in Germany found out that refugee housing has virtually no effect on the crime rate in the area. Although there has been a continuous rise in the migrant population for decades now, crime rates have been shrinking steadily since 2004.
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Sep 15, 2015 12:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't think reinstating border controls is bad, because that simply helps process migrants. Some migrant children have disappeared in Sweden because they just showed up on train station and somebody picked them up (hopefully relatives). Agreed. I just wanted to make a pun. Let me have this...
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Sep 15, 2015 12:44
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Aumanor posted:Ever considered that this might suggest a problem with the immigrants and not with France? The US has decades of data showing that if a specific demographic has a disproportionate imprisonment rate, it's almost certainly a problem with the system rather than a problem with the demographic in question. I don't see why it would be any different in France?
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Sep 15, 2015 14:27
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Some people are getting really angry about this Charlie Hebdo cartoon: "So close to the goal" "Promo: two children's menus for the price of one" They say that it's mocking the little kid that drowned. They are idiots.
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Sep 15, 2015 14:49
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willemw posted:Some people are getting really angry about this Charlie Hebdo cartoon: Uh oh
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Sep 15, 2015 15:59
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Bavarian police saying they're not able refuse anyone who's coming, as the controls happen a few hundred meters away from the borders. "Basically nothing changed. The border is as open as it was before and if we really closed it we would immediately have a situation like in Hungary." Furthermore they said that literally everyone is claiming to be Syrian even if they're obviously from Sub-Saharan Africa.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:05
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willemw posted:Some people are getting really angry about this Charlie Hebdo cartoon: People have a proud, 9-month-long tradition of being willfully stupid about Charlie Hebdo cartoons.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:15
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PT6A posted:It's not the best option, but it's not exactly "bad" either. Every place has its problems. No I'm not forgetting, that is why I said "if you have nothing", if you already have family in America, business contacts etc. then you clearly have something. I'm talking about those refugees who don't have anything, no skills, no common language, no contacts, no family, no money etc. given all that, going to Europe will likely have a much better outcome than going to the U.S. my dad posted:It's a very convenient excuse. And is nothing more than an excuse. You aren't in their shoes. I mean, unless your life is in danger and you need to run right now, and are trying to figure how not to die in the short, medium, and long term. US could help them move, which would be the right thing to do considering how much US fuckups contributed to the situation. Helps skip the bits about drowning in the Mediterranean, being robbed by bandits, being beaten half-to-death by a Hungarian policeman and half-starved in an overcrowded camp, or suffocating to death in a truck in Austria. But nope, the Atlantic ocean got in the way, what an insurmountable obstacle to the richest nation on Earth! Hell, I've recently learned that some minority communities in US are trying to organize taking in a number of refugee families on their own initiative, almost as if they had a sense of empathy and basic human decency, yet it's too much of a hassle for the Real AmericanTM to even consider. It's not an excuse, it's just basic observation, there isn't anything stopping refugees from being smuggled into a cargo container and braving the three week journey to America, however they aren't doing that, refugees are voting with their feet and most want to go to Europe. If they want to go to Europe, who's the U.S. to say otherwise? You say that America could help the refugees resettle in the U.S., but why would America do that? Europe doesn't. Just because it's the right thing to do? Is it really the right thing to do for those already living here? Sure there might be some communities willing to take in a family here and there however there are millions of refugees, and it doubtful that they'll be willing to take in enough to make a significant difference, there is a limit to human compassion and the supply rarely meets the demand.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:25
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mikemil828 posted:there isn't anything stopping refugees from being smuggled into a cargo container and braving the three week journey to America Is this an actual extant option?
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Sep 15, 2015 16:27
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