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There's not enough spoons on this planet to throw at Wildstar.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:57
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Esper got really fun for me once they allowed you to move while casting that spell that shot the blue swords/knives at your target. That was just about the week that everyone quit and there was nothing left to do though.
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Sep 15, 2015 02:37
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I got given a beta f2p key too. The housing actually looks ok. I might give this a whirl.
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Sep 15, 2015 02:40
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The Dominion storyline kinda blew rear end too. Wildly swinging between 'Saturday morning cartoon evil villain being evil because he's a villain who is therefore evil and a villain' and trying to take a more serious 'Oh woe is me I'm pushed to do these terrible things because of the horrible actions of these revolting terrorists'. I could have gone with either one if it had stayed consistent. Either laughing at goofy over-the-top villain behavior or seeing it through the eyes of someone staring into the abyss too long. Flailing about between the two at random was a pretty good way to lose interest.
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Sep 15, 2015 03:21
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They should have gone for over the top villains because A) the whole goddamn ad campaign set up the game as a goofy comedy and B) the chances of an MMO successfully pulling off a morally grey faction is almost zero. I mean, this is the game that calls you a super mega badass when you level, and mockingly calls you a cupcake upon death. Don't try to be loving nuanced
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Sep 15, 2015 04:08
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The most annoying thing for me in Wildstar and the reason I packed it in as I was levelling is that a good 70% of fights took a shitload of effort. I shouldn't really need to dodge and interrupt constantly when I'm fighting some quest mob, each fight shouldn't take me three or four minutes. It got worse as I levelled and I just couldn't be bothered. It wasn't HARD it was just irritating. Which I guess is the story of Wildstar. Maybe if I'd have to fight one enemy like that in the quest or the enemy gave me a decent amount of experience but they never did.
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Sep 15, 2015 09:14
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Taear posted:The most annoying thing for me in Wildstar and the reason I packed it in as I was levelling is that a good 70% of fights took a shitload of effort. I shouldn't really need to dodge and interrupt constantly when I'm fighting some quest mob, each fight shouldn't take me three or four minutes. Yeah, the amount of engagement it required was a lot higher than I was looking for in an MMO. Keep that poo poo to dungeons and raids, honestly.
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Sep 15, 2015 09:29
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engagement would be fine if the leveling process isnt some weeks long affair
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Sep 15, 2015 14:27
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Requiring a high level of player engagement makes sense if your game is actually fun. Because Wildstar is an MMO built to conform to the "leveling is the thing you do while waiting for the real game to start" structure, it naturally doesn't work there. Incidentally, that structure is dumb and lovely.
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Sep 15, 2015 14:46
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What mostly dragged solo pve fights down was the huge amount of HP mobs started having. Playing a warrior was so depressing, unleashing some crazy looking nuclear powered sword combo and realizing you have to do the same thing 4 more times to kill this one ordinary boar.
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Sep 15, 2015 14:59
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I'm glad I never leveled high enough to start running into that. That's another thing: if you're going to make players pay attention and be highly engaged while fighting routine enemies, don't also make them HP sponges. This is true of dungeon bosses, too, really. (*cough* ArenaNet *cough*)
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Sep 15, 2015 15:01
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Turtle Sandbox posted:WotLK was the first time I didn't have to farm poo poo loads of mats or gold for mats so we could have the 10k gold worth of pots a raid week took. WotLK was the first time I actually made money from raiding. Even on progression nights the money from trashes/bosses on farm was usually enough to keep me in moolah. I stopped doing dailies around Ulduar, because between the weekly nax clear to gear up alts and Ulduar itself we were making pretty good bank.
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Sep 15, 2015 15:29
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Harrow posted:I'm glad I never leveled high enough to start running into that. The length of the fight never REALLY bothered me. Just having to be completely on form every single fight did. I can't be bothered, it's not worth the effort. The nature of a MMOG is going to mean you've got some down time where you're not having the most fun you can have. I'm fine with that. Sometimes it's relaxing and the game is there to fill when I haven't got anything better to do. Making me fight the equivalent of a dungeon boss ten times for every quest is just an enormous arse.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:06
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Taear posted:The length of the fight never REALLY bothered me. Just having to be completely on form every single fight did. I can't be bothered, it's not worth the effort. It's actually quite a well studied piece of game design, the focus on interest curves. An ideal interest curve should be one that starts off with a low gradient and then swoops upwards to peak at a moderately high point. This is so that the player can execute on the lessons learnt on the lower parts of the curve and to give them a sense of accomplishment. That pattern then gradually goes upwards, moving between high peaks of engagement and low troughs of rest for the player to learn more and 'chill out' after the excitement from the peak. Wildstar is almost like sensory overload in that it is in your face.. Constantly and perpetually. It's just not good design. a neurotic ai fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 17:22
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Ocrassus posted:It's actually quite a well studied piece of game design, the focus on interest curves. An ideal interest curve should be one that starts off with a low gradient and then swoops upwards to peak at a moderately high point. This is so that the player can execute on the lessons learnt on the lower parts of the curve and to give them a sense of accomplishment. Keeping your attention focused entirely on a game is great when it's a game like dark souls where most of the encounters are brutally short one way or the other. There isn't a pile of extra poo poo you need to kill, and every encounter is specifically designed to get the most difficulty out of the fewest number of enemies or length of engagement and maybe one or two mechanics tops. It's a game that understands that difficulty is something people want in short bursts with a cooldown period where you're taking in the atmosphere or looking for the loot and at your stats and stuff, and there's a buildup of tension when you look ahead to figure out what's going to immediately try to kill you next or when you see a fog gate. Wildstar has none of the downtime required to make that difficulty work well, and it was exacerbated by those stupid challenge timers that would pop up randomly with poo poo rewards and have some guy yelling at you about it. The entire thing is like sucking down an entire pound of warheads all at once.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:09
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Crafting changes! http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-09-15-crafting-improvements-in-free-to-play/ The main takeaway is that crafting is being made easier to understand, and that there will be special mats in dungeons to let you craft gear on par with that dungeon's drops in case you're unlucky or something. Also: failure caps. Because losing your mats when you failed wasn't enough 
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Sep 16, 2015 00:11
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Ocrassus posted:It's actually quite a well studied piece of game design, the focus on interest curves. An ideal interest curve should be one that starts off with a low gradient and then swoops upwards to peak at a moderately high point. This is so that the player can execute on the lessons learnt on the lower parts of the curve and to give them a sense of accomplishment. The challenges that popped up really exacerbated this. You get a quest to kill ten deer, you kill one then suddenly HOLY poo poo THERE'S A CHALLENGE YOU ONLY HAVE 70 SECONDS LEFT YOU NEED TO KILL AS MANY DEER AS POSSIBLE GO GO GO! Yeah you could ignore them without consequence, but having timers constantly pop up around you made everything feel hectic, in a bad way. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Keeping your attention focused entirely on a game is great when it's a game like dark souls where most of the encounters are brutally short one way or the other. There isn't a pile of extra poo poo you need to kill, and every encounter is specifically designed to get the most difficulty out of the fewest number of enemies or length of engagement and maybe one or two mechanics tops. It's a game that understands that difficulty is something people want in short bursts with a cooldown period where you're taking in the atmosphere or looking for the loot and at your stats and stuff, and there's a buildup of tension when you look ahead to figure out what's going to immediately try to kill you next or when you see a fog gate. Yeah, if I'm playing some single player action game or something it's a much different story. There's no social element and not nearly as much progression/metagame to worry about so you just focus on the gameplay. Not so with MMOs, generally. The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 01:49
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The Moon Monster posted:The challenges that popped up really exacerbated this. You get a quest to kill ten deer, you kill one then suddenly HOLY poo poo THERE'S A CHALLENGE YOU ONLY HAVE 70 SECONDS LEFT YOU NEED TO KILL AS MANY DEER AS POSSIBLE GO GO GO! Yeah you could ignore them without consequence, but having timers constantly pop up around you made everything feel hectic, in a bad way. Not that I imagine this is an issue now. 
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Sep 16, 2015 04:04
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Rorus Raz posted:Crafting changes! they're really set on not making any part of the game not suck
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Sep 16, 2015 07:46
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The Moon Monster posted:The challenges that popped up really exacerbated this. You get a quest to kill ten deer, you kill one then suddenly HOLY poo poo THERE'S A CHALLENGE YOU ONLY HAVE 70 SECONDS LEFT YOU NEED TO KILL AS MANY DEER AS POSSIBLE GO GO GO! Yeah you could ignore them without consequence, but having timers constantly pop up around you made everything feel hectic, in a bad way. I had actually forgotten about those! They were such a mixed bag too, some were completed without even thinking about it and some were an absolute pain in the rear end to get done. Ugh.
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Sep 16, 2015 10:45
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quote:Keep in mind that there is a failure cap. Once your failure rate reaches this threshold, you cannot craft your item until it’s lowered back below the threshold.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:30
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Rorus Raz posted:Crafting changes! Soothing Vapors posted:I can't believe I paid these idiots $60 for this game once upon a time You realize they mean like 'if you have over a 60% chance to fail we won't let you make the item until you reduce it by changing stats,' right? To keep people from wasting mats on poo poo that has limited chance to succeed. I mean they've always had a failure chance for when you overcharged poo poo in crafting, adding a cap as a guide line for acceptable risk kinda makes sense, unless it's stupidly low. And considering they also have poo poo to unlock to raise the failure cap, I do worry it's gonna be TOO low. Anything under 40% chance to fail as the cap seems like it'd be pushing it.
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Sep 17, 2015 06:15
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Why does crafting have a failure chance in the first place? Is there some context I'm missing?
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Sep 17, 2015 07:39
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Mizuti posted:Why does crafting have a failure chance in the first place? Is there some context I'm missing? because its an MMO i guess poo poo like this is just holdover from so long ago nobody remembers why it's in games
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Sep 17, 2015 08:16
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Mizuti posted:Why does crafting have a failure chance in the first place? Is there some context I'm missing? because if you don't have it idiots will cry about casuals also those idiots are the people who are making the game
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Sep 17, 2015 08:23
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Kelp Plankton posted:because its an MMO i guess Reasonably it would allow you to have a system where items can be crafted for much less resources with a risk. making 5 boots and failing 2 would cost as much materials as making 3 boots in a non fail system. This is not the case in wildstar cupcake.
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Sep 17, 2015 08:34
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I liked that in Everquest 2, where crafting threw different conditions at you and you had to counter them with things and as you got better at the type of crafting you were doing you had better skills to counter them. Made leveling crafting more involved but was more interesting than farm materials for an hour then stand next to a forge, click craft all and go afk for the next 15 minutes while your character emotes with a hammer.
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Sep 17, 2015 08:54
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Crafting is loving horrible in MMOs, it has never once worked well and never will, and yet it remains one of those lingering vestigial development things that nobody will ever dare get rid of.
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Sep 17, 2015 08:58
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Dunno, works well in ESO where crafting is a good source of viable gear for the level you're using and you can even craft your own set items provided you can keep track of the crafting shrines and have researched the slot enough. Never really used non crafted items after I figured this out very early on.
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Sep 17, 2015 09:05
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Crafting is usually just a way to waste players' bag space and trick them into sinking tons of gold into something that usually gives worse rewards than the dungeons they could be doing. Cooking tends to be a bit better because it's mostly buffs but it's usually the worst for bag space.
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Sep 17, 2015 09:09
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Even games that literally revolve around crafting and making stuff (such as minecraft and it's infinite bad clones) wind up getting so staggeringly tedious that you wish it was automated, have a majority of recipes that are literally useless and pointless, or both. Also,Unguided posted:Crafting is usually just a way to waste players' bag space and trick them into sinking tons of gold into something that usually gives worse rewards than the dungeons they could be doing. Cooking tends to be a bit better because it's mostly buffs but it's usually the worst for bag space. Also consumable buffs are another sacred cow that needs to be given the Old Yeller treatment but at least that seems to be a little less ubiquitous these days.
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Sep 17, 2015 09:54
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Vanguard had really good crafted gear
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Sep 17, 2015 14:15
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Mizuti posted:Why does crafting have a failure chance in the first place? Is there some context I'm missing? I think UO had a chance to fail when crafting, and I know FF11 and FF14 have chances to fail, but I can't think of any other major MMOs that have it off of the top of my head. Hell even EverQuest didn't have a chance to fail so long as you had the appropriate skill, if I remember right. WoW just had a chance you wouldn't get a skill up but you still got the item made. I think it's just to have a money sink and risk associated with crafting. Also, crafting in Wildstar only has a chance to fail if you fiddle with the stats. As it's mentioned in that crafting article, every item has two rune slots of differing element types; every secondary stat is associated with an element. Leaving it as is or tweaking stats that match the rune slots gives a much lower chance to fail, whereas throwing a different stat (like crit) into a slot it doesn't match or going overboard and adding like +20% chance to crit to the item increases the odds you won't successfully make it. They try to go for a risk vs reward thing with it, and I guess the cap is just to keep new players from doing incredibly dumb poo poo to start out with. Unguided posted:Crafting is usually just a way to waste players' bag space and trick them into sinking tons of gold into something that usually gives worse rewards than the dungeons they could be doing. Cooking tends to be a bit better because it's mostly buffs but it's usually the worst for bag space. Wildstar's crafted gear turned out to be superior to dungeon drops, and in fact there was one weapon that, if you stacked the same stat on it, was superior to even anything you could get in entry raiding. A lot of MMOs use entry crafting to fill in gaps for entry level raiding; hell, WoW still has some of the best loving crafted weapons that can beat out poo poo you get from quests and dungeons easily, and let you level them up to stay current. But yeah usually just there cause it HAS to be there. Hell, I remember when cloth casters HAD to have certain pieces to be competitive in WoW; it was utter poo poo.
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Sep 17, 2015 15:04
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Asimo posted:Crafting is loving horrible in MMOs, it has never once worked well and never will, and yet it remains one of those lingering vestigial development things that nobody will ever dare get rid of. I like FF14's crafting system because there are actual game mechanics behind it. But then, I'm comparing it to WoW and FF11 crafting in my head, which are both boring as hell and in FF11's case actively punishing you for daring to try. I'm not familiar with the systems of other games. In FF14, the RNG component upon finishing a craft is whether it ends up high-quality or not - if you fill the progress bar in time, it's going to complete. That said, I don't think it's particularly well integrated into the game in terms of rewarding you for participating - the FF14 thread will tell you that crafting will never make you money or useful gear without pouring millions and millions of gil into overmelding, and they're right - I just like that it's more complex than gathering materials, pressing a button, and watching an animation.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:04
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Asimo posted:Crafting is loving horrible in MMOs, it has never once worked well and never will, and yet it remains one of those lingering vestigial development things that nobody will ever dare get rid of. It's all right in The Secret World, but that's because there are no associated skills to level and you basically just put a bunch of components together and you're set.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:21
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it has the problem of being complex in the "lots of tedious ingredients" way as well to make a level 58 fist weapon in blacksmithing requires level 56-58 crafts from alchemy, goldsmithing, carpenter, and leatherworking, and each of those individual crafts requires a combination of hunting, botany, and mining. it's just tedious ingredient hoarding. quote:5 Fire Crystal darksteel ore, gold ore, and adamantite ore also all come from things called "unspoiled gathering nodes" that only spawn once (twice in the case of adamantite) per day, one eorzean day being about 70 minutes it's just tedious this is without going into the clusterfuck that endgame crafting is sword_man.gif fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 16:24
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Somebody post that normal quality craft someone did with 98% HQ rate which caused them to lose out on 10+ million gil.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:35
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Holyshoot posted:Somebody post that normal quality craft someone did with 98% HQ rate which caused them to lose out on 10+ million gil. the only way to win is not to play 
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Sep 17, 2015 16:38
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RNG is a fickle bitch.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:44
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sword_man.gif posted:the only way to win is not to play 
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