|
Ran into a guy flying Miranda with APTs and Homing Missiles with Extra Munitions, Recon Spec, and Munitions Failsafe along side Jan with Moldy Crow, Rec Spec, and Blaster Turret, and supported by Cracken. 6 dice homing missiles with TL and focus are obscene. 7 dice APTs are even worse.
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
Strobe posted:Ran into a guy flying Miranda with APTs and Homing Missiles with Extra Munitions, Recon Spec, and Munitions Failsafe along side Jan with Moldy Crow, Rec Spec, and Blaster Turret, and supported by Cracken. Holy poo poo I have to try this now, that sounds fun as hell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
Dude gently caress TLTs Ran against a 4x TLT thug list. Ugh. Dude. Not sure what part of the game this was meant to improve. We needed more turrets? We want arc dodgers to die? Move away from boring things like thinking ahead to decide your maneuver and carefully considering your placement? BORING. just fly in circles throwing fistfuls of red dice at anything you like.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 07:07
|
|
|
Well I Fly Casual and my third game was against a tournament player running an Imperial arc dodger list. He was spending so much time fretting over every choice that he was sweating, and didn't hear me when I asked him where he got the cool tokens from. I didn't get a single shot off. So suck it arc dodgers Edit: Lol this is a game where Soontir Fel/Push the Limit/Royal Guard/Autothrusters/Stealth Device exists and people are whining that there's something that can potentially maybe actually damage their ships BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 07:51
|
|
|
I have a feeling that 4x cheap Y-Wing w/TLT is going to be a very feast-or-famine sort of thing depending on what sort of list it goes up against, and even then it's going to depend heavily on the Y-Wing player's ability to fly his ships so that they have proper spacing and overlapping fire and don't wind up getting pounced on inside the dead zone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 08:12
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:Well I Fly Casual and my third game was against a tournament player running an Imperial arc dodger list. He was spending so much time fretting over every choice that he was sweating, and didn't hear me when I asked him where he got the cool tokens from. I didn't get a single shot off. Yeah the problem is that TLT seems to have been specifically balanced against Fel/PTL/RG/AT/SD. Even against that, the best arc dodger in the entire game, it's decent. The sheer volume of attacks means that his focus tokens and evade tokens are stripped one by one, and he will get unlucky with rolls from time to time. TLTs are the end of things like: X-Wings, Y-Wings which aren't TLT boats, Phantoms, every TIE that isn't Soontir Fel, Decimators, and basically everything that doesn't have 3 evade dice with rerolls.  Literally any kitted X-Wing? Suck it, goes down in, on average, 3 TLT attacks. That's not even a full round of shooting from your 4 TLTs. Other Y-Wings or B-Wings? 4 TLT attacks, with almost zero chance of evading because of their one puny evade dice. (one round of attacking from your 4 TLT list). Decimators? Two rounds of shooting, unless you roll 3 blanks. I went to a tournament this weekend and ran two TLT Thugs. They did almost all the heavy lifting. The only reason I didn't take four was that that list is boring as all poo poo. TLTs are broken, full stop. The very best arc dodgers (read: Soontir) stand a fighting chance, everyone else is hosed. This game did not need more powerful turrets. Firing arcs and maneuvering around them is the meat and potatoes of this game. Having the occasional turret is fine, having four of them in the same list is boring for their player and frustrating for the opponent. They seem to have decided not to include any more turret ships with 3 attack after the Decimator/Outrider wave, because they were simply too dominant. Why they decided to add the most powerful turret to-date, one that you can cram 4 of into a list, is beyond me. Calling it now, TLTs will be FAQed to be limited to one per squad in tournament play. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 11:00
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:Edit: Lol this is a game where Soontir Fel/Push the Limit/Royal Guard/Autothrusters/Stealth Device exists and people are whining that there's something that can potentially maybe actually damage their ships Landing even a single crit on an Interceptor will guarantee a kill 80% of the time, and that single 3 HP ship costs a full third of your list. The game didn't need a hard counter to arc dodgers. Calling them broken and asking for them to be banned is pretty laughable though. They're just poo poo design. Geisladisk posted:Calling it now, TLTs will be FAQed to be limited to one per squad in tournament play. No, that's not going to happen because FFG don't do things like that. What will probably happen is that in 6-12 months they'll release a 2-3 point mod slot upgrade card that makes it so you can only be attacked once per turn by any given ship, or something equally dumb. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 11:42
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:Landing even a single crit on an Interceptor will guarantee a kill 80% of the time, and that single 3 HP ship costs a full third of your list. The game didn't need a hard counter to arc dodgers. I've seen TLTs, they have some limitations- I think they were put in to improve secondary turrets and also gently caress over the 2-ship game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 11:44
|
|
|
I also went to a tournament and ran two TLTs and yeah, sure, they did do the damage, but there was a significant counter-play to them. What I noticed was that against good players it was possible for them to get into positions where my TLT advantage didn't pay off. Bad players didn't adjust and were facing a whole lot of TLT shots every turn. There were plenty of TLTs at the tourney but the list that won in the end was a scum 5 K list. The TLTs Y-Wings just didn't have enough time to grind down 25 hitpoints worth of ships before they lost ships, and the 5 K player was able to get into range 1 in order to force the TLT player to split fire and distribute his damage over several Ks rather than focus one down. There is counter-play to TLTs and the meta will develop to use them and counter them. Saying they are absolutely broken and calling for a ban of them is both premature and also something that I hope X-Wing never, ever actually does, since it will set a really bad precedent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 11:55
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:What I noticed was that against good players it was possible for them to get into positions where my TLT advantage didn't pay off. Bad players didn't adjust and were facing a whole lot of TLT shots every turn. Right. It's not a winning strategy to just build a 2 ship list and use Soontir Fel to watch where everyone moves and then adjust accordingly anymore. It's refreshing to see people playing 4 ship lists.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:12
|
|
|
If 4 TLT takes off in my meta, I'm flying 4 lambdas.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:14
|
|
|
I wasn't calling for TLTs being banned. I said I think they will probably be limited somehow. The limitations of X-Wing's format mean that they can't really nerf a specific card once it's out. Once it's out there, it's out there for good. Fixing TLTs by adding a card which hard counters it a few months down the line just compounds the problem. One TLT in a list is fine, it's when you stack four of them that they become a problem. Sure, you can try to get into the donut, but the TLTs can just split up to counter it - And if they take Unstable Astromech instead of R4s, their dial becomes unpredictable enough that it's hard to keep them at range 1 at all times. Maybe the meta will adapt, but I just don't see what tools there are available to counter TLT spam at the moment. I'd like to add that my experience with TLTs is exclusively from wrecking poo poo with them. I'm not whining because I lost some games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:21
|
|
|
I was playing my list of drea/slaver/thug in the tourney (so two TLTs) and by far the best game I have ever played of X-Wing ever was one where I was facing a Fat Han/Jake list. Jake was still relatively difficult to take down and the game ended with the falcon at 3-4 hit points. If I'd played better, I would won and there were loads of decisions that swung the balance of the match. TLTs list are actually pretty difficult to play right IMO: you need to overlap your fire zones, you can't be too bunched up because otherwise you won't be able to actually shoot if someone doughnut holes you, you need to be careful around big ships with EU since they larger base makes it easier for them to doughnut hole you, you can't spread them out too much or otherwise it is impossible to focus fire etc etc. Has anyone tried TLT lists against swarms? I can't see them doing too well against a classic TIE swarm either due to bumping/doughnut holing/fire-splitting and the fact that Y-Wings only have 1 agility, which makes even TIE fighter fire relatively reliable. EDIT: A limitation ban is still a ban.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:28
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:Fixing TLTs by adding a card which hard counters it a few months down the line just compounds the problem. This is an FFG game. Fantasy Flight has never met a problem that wasn't a werewolf and never considered a solution that wasn't a silver bullet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:38
|
|
|
With the exception of the cloaking change.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:40
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:Fixing TLTs by adding a card which hard counters it a few months down the line just compounds the problem. Hi, and welcome to FFG games. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 12:42
|
|
|
parabolic posted:And if you want to imitate the effect, look into tilt-shift photography. …and as an example of what tilt-shift (and time lapse) can give you, watch this: https://vimeo.com/3156959 (not even SW-related). It's all down to how we have come to associate a particular depth-of-field look to miniature/macro photography. The interesting bit is in how you have to reverse the optical effect in order to make miniatures look full-scale.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 13:00
|
|
|
How much fun is the Rebel Transport? I hear a lot about the cards and x-wing pilots bundled with it, but little about the ship itself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 13:04
|
|
|
Yeah; The real hope if you want (and you might not want, I'm theory-talking here, not discussing whether it's needed or not) arcs and manoeuvring to become more important wouldn't be to issue more cards that counter Turrets, but to make core rule changes that affect the mechanics of Turrets, like they did with Cloaking. For example, they could make it so Turrets are affected by Range bonuses, or are only affected by Range 3 Bonus, but don't receive the Range 1 Bonus. This affects their power without incurring more case-specific cards. E: I'm personally of the view that TLT shouldn't have been printed as is; It's quite clearly the 'best' Turret, and it's cost to the enemy player in terms of token drain is phenomenal, to the point including one is worthwhile purely to be a Focus/Evade sink. But that's just my personal opinion, and I've nothing but anecdotal evidence to back that with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 13:40
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Yeah; The real hope if you want (and you might not want, I'm theory-talking here, not discussing whether it's needed or not) arcs and manoeuvring to become more important wouldn't be to issue more cards that counter Turrets, but to make core rule changes that affect the mechanics of Turrets, like they did with Cloaking. For example, they could make it so Turrets are affected by Range bonuses, or are only affected by Range 3 Bonus, but don't receive the Range 1 Bonus. This affects their power without incurring more case-specific cards. The problem is most secondary turrets suck. The title helped them a bit but they were very lackluster pre-TLT.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 13:51
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Yeah; The real hope if you want (and you might not want, I'm theory-talking here, not discussing whether it's needed or not) arcs and manoeuvring to become more important wouldn't be to issue more cards that counter Turrets, but to make core rule changes that affect the mechanics of Turrets, like they did with Cloaking. For example, they could make it so Turrets are affected by Range bonuses, or are only affected by Range 3 Bonus, but don't receive the Range 1 Bonus. This affects their power without incurring more case-specific cards. People would just stop playing them and Soontir-wing would rule the meta for a couple years. Suggesting arcs and maneuvering are the only aspect of the game when only one faction has access to ships that thoughtlessly manage it is getting old.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 14:06
|
|
|
I would be happy if they fixed TLT to fire only within the ships standard firing arch, it would be a simple fix without nerfing it to much but would change the power of the upgrade to one based off player skill when it comes to flying and less a free 2 damage hit per turn with no limitations.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 14:13
|
|
|
I'm curious as to how many people complaining about TLT have actually changed their lists to something that performs better against TLT instead of just trying to run their same build? Kind of reminds me of that Louis CK bit "This is my favorite way! This is the only way I know!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:It's a rare list that has more than six ships, so unless you're planning on flying 8x Academy Pilot or something you could probably get by with a half-dozen each of focus, evade, TL, and stress and that would probably be more than generous enough for most lists. Exceptions do exist of course...Tycho Celchu, the Moldy Crow title, these things accumulate tokens, but if you know you're gonna be using them then you can plan accordingly. Shield tokens are the exception since depending on the ships you're using you might need a bunch...a single B-Wing uses five all by itself for example. In my ongoing quest to make A-wings useful, I fly Tycho when I'm not flying Jake. I've never met anyone who had a problem with me going "Assume Tycho is stressed, I don't have that many counters." Incidentally, I am super hype about the new damage deck not having Injured Pilot anymore! Someone give me the basics of running PbP X-wing, please. I'd need Vassal and the relevant module, everyone would submit their moves at the start of the round, but then it'd have to break down into individual actions and shooting for each ship, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 15:32
|
|
|
Heyo I think I am finally going to give in and try out XWing. I was just curious if there is a youtube channel (or site?) that does some good tutorial, overview, basic strategy, etc etc stuff? I already watched the FFG video for a basic understanding of how to play...just curious about anything else to check out until I actually land a core set.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 15:35
|
|
|
Like I said, apparently not clearly enough, my post was purely how you'd do it, not whether it should be. I personally think TLT is too good, because massed TLT means you hardly engage with the game as the player; your damage per turn is pretty easy to expect, and you've basically put a timer until you attrition them down on the game. It's purely on the Y-Wing, but both the Rebel and Scum versions can do it, through either R2 or Unhinged, and then just circle the board, toss the occasional swing move to stop donuting, and grind them down. If it stays as is, I'll just build around expecting to see it, just like currently you have to expect to build around meeting a Fat Han; I'm just surprised that of the three major archetypes, Turret lists already outperform arc dodging to the point that they printed Autothrusters, and Jousting lists rarely make Top 10's by comparison, so why they felt the urge to make the card apart from 'to have a power card in the K-Wing' is a little strange.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Razzled posted:I'm curious as to how many people complaining about TLT have actually changed their lists to something that performs better against TLT instead of just trying to run their same build? If a single new card requires a complete overhaul of every list to try and counter it, then that card is probably a bit too good, duder.  As I said, my complaints with TLT are not from losing to TLT, but from winning with TLT. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 16:32
|
|
|
I'm looking at my limited collection and wondering how to make an Imperial list. I'm sort of keen to include Vader especially now the new /X1 title gives him a boost. I own 3 vanilla Ties and was wondering if adding an Interceptor was worth it. Maybe Vader and Soontir Fel and 3 academy pilots or similar. I do own a Firespray but would probably run that in my Scum lists I'm working on
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
DKD posted:How much fun is the Rebel Transport? I hear a lot about the cards and x-wing pilots bundled with it, but little about the ship itself. The rebel transport can be a lot of fun. It's purely a support ship, and it's easy to overload of course, but I find that a few simple builds are fun for epic games. It can be cheap enough to just run as a blocker, or you can try to turn it into a stress factory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Hey dude how do you take pictures so they look like that? It's that neat tiny railroad/city technique I see in scale modeling magazines. It's just a 50mm portrait lens on my DSLR, where the depth of field is making it look kinda like tilt-shift, as a couple other posters have paraphrased. It was the simplest way to take decent photos of the game, since I could just set that up on a tripod at manual focus, dial it in to close-enough, and take shots every turn phase. Honestly even that was an underestimate, I think I might do the same next epic game but switch up to a proper every-ten-seconds timelapse. Until I met FFG games, photography was my most expensive hobby! Actually, I think X-Wing's taken over 'most careful about preserving' title too, since I carve out spaces for each of my Imperials in packing foam so that I don't damage them. Fortunately that one doesn't add to the cost, I got one big plane of 5cm foam for about £15 and have so far only used about a third. Serotonin posted:I'm looking at my limited collection and wondering how to make an Imperial list. I'm sort of keen to include Vader especially now the new /X1 title gives him a boost. I own 3 vanilla Ties and was wondering if adding an Interceptor was worth it. Maybe Vader and Soontir Fel and 3 academy pilots or similar. If you're thinking about running Squad Leader on Vader, I'd recommend the Interceptor, since they can get a ridiculous amount of use out of it. Fel in particular gets silly - you can potentially give him three actions on his turn if he's running Push the Limit, or just give him a second action so that a Daredevil turn becomes absurd. It's also more fun than TIE Fighters. If you're not running Squad Leader, presumably using his two actions to make Advanced Targeting Computer utterly silly, it's purely personal preference. Also, re: Phantom chat a few comments ago, I still find the Phantom a ton of fun, and I think the nerf was just about perfect for reducing it to merely a powerful ability. Particularly when using the decloak to laugh at ion ambushes, it's really clear that it's still a Phantom. "Ah ha! I know... three wildly different locations he could be in next turn." Admittedly, if the ion cannon was turreted on a Y-wing you can still have the same problem next turn, but still. EDIT:vv drat, of course, you're right. Sorry! WFGuy fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:13
|
|
|
Would squad leader work on Fel? He doesn't have a lower PS than Vader.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:21
|
|
|
Razzled posted:I'm curious as to how many people complaining about TLT have actually changed their lists to something that performs better against TLT instead of just trying to run their same build? As an imperial player I feel somewhat caught. While this thread doesn't discuss Imperial lists as much (given the popularity of the scum and rebels recently) I also feel somewhat blindsided by the TLT. Do you have a suggested counter to the TLT for the imperials?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
TLT looks fine. It won't one-poo poo any ship in one round ever since it only does 2 damage at most with no crits. It has a range-one doughnut hole that can be exploited. Everywhere it can hit suffers from Autothrusters except front range 2 front. The user doesn't get a second focus token unless they use their crew slot on a Recon Specialist or have one given to them (only Palob or Kyle need apply and lol HWK), and that option isn't even available to the Y-wing. It's basically an uphill battle against high-evade autothrusting arc dodgers (though from their perspective it's terrible because it actually gives the opponent a chance to hit them, god forbid), and it won't really deal with swarms or fat lists very well because of anemic damage output (no chance for a one-volley lucky crit) and high point cost. It definitely isn't the kind of thing where you just ignore your opponent since you have to either play keep away to keep the doughnut hole clear or overlap your fire arcs which isn't always possible while trying to avoid the enemy and dodge obstacles. Mainly, get good and stop being offended that someone has some feeble means of fighting back other than arc dodging better. If a 3 red dice 1 damage cap attack was gamebreaking then arc dodgers would already have been obsolete to the Ion Cannon Turret. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:30
|
|
|
Trip report: the 3s printer is offline. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:30
|
|
|
I don't play X-Wing very often, but the new TIE toys got me interested. I think I'll go to a tournament on Sunday with this list: Maarek Stele (27) Lightning Reflexes (1) Advanced Targeting Computer (1) TIE/x1 (0) Colonel Vessery (35) Crack Shot (1) Ion Cannon (3) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15) Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15) Total: 99 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Target Locks are fun! Any thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:TLT looks fine. It won't one-poo poo any ship in one round ever since it only does 2 damage at most with no crits. It has a range-one doughnut hole that can be exploited. Everywhere it can hit suffers from Autothrusters except front range 2 front. The user doesn't get a second focus token unless they use their crew slot on a Recon Specialist or have one given to them (only Palob or Kyle need apply and lol HWK), and that option isn't even available to the Y-wing. It's basically an uphill battle against high-evade autothrusting arc dodgers (though from their perspective it's terrible because it actually gives the opponent a chance to hit them, god forbid), and it won't really deal with swarms or fat lists very well because of anemic damage output (no chance for a one-volley lucky crit) and high point cost. The problem isn't a single TLT attack, or even a single ship with TLT. The problem is when you run four of them, which means eight attacks, which absolutely is capable of killing most ships in the game in one volley. The damage cap on four TLTs is eight. That isn't a low damage output list, it's a high damage output one - And the mechanics of the TLT mean that it's damage output is much more consistent, and consistently higher, than normal 3-dice ships. The doughnut isn't really a problem, since you're running four of them, and running Unhinged makes their dial very unpredictable. I'm not sure why you're framing this as a arc-dodging whine, arc dodgers are some of the least affected, due to autothrusters. TLTs will make Brobots and Soontir even more popular. What makes TLTs so good is that they're practically guaranteed two damage per turn against anything with 2 evade dice or less. The worst hit ship is the Decimator. It's practically an auto-lose against 4 TLT lists.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
Yeah, TLT spam is a Good Thing for this game, and I don't and probably won't run it myself. Do lists have to adjust? Yes, of course, because small turret spam has never before been possible. But all the complaints here make me think that the arc dodgers and jousters are just rushing in head to head with the TLT list, which is pretty much exactly what they want. What you should be doing is to attack from the outside edge of the formation, so that only a couple TLT ships can engage at once. Neither Y-Wings nor Hawks are very durable or agile. You want to rush into range one in a way that you're facing the same way as the turret ship is. If you go straight into them you'll get range 1 for one turn. Then they'll be past you and shooting you for several more while you turn around. They're good, and a good player will do well with them. They're hardly unbeatable, and rushing in immediately without watching the board and planning ahead will get you killed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
If I knew someone who owned four Y-Wings I'd be trying to arrange some matches against 4x Y+TLT to see what going against it is actually like.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
I haven't run the numbers but somehow I'm thinking that with the large amount of hull points on y-wings, the possibility for b-wings to score critical hits (and 3-4 hits) might give them the edge against TLT y-wings. If this is true, we might be back to the old balanced trifecta. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
It's tough. Especially against Y-Wings though, staying at range can actually be a big bonus if you can keep half their list from engaging for a round or two. I think that's what large ships are going to have to do, and that's going to come down to deployment and asteroid placement. It's definitely possibly to more or less screw yourself before placing a ship on the board.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:28
|
|