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I have mixed feelings about how the "there were basically two big bosses for all of history" thing, but: Doing it this way was a good excuse to re-humanize "Big Boss" while you're playing him even though he should be farther along in his villain cycle. The ending basically shows that, yes, the real big boss has become much more of a villain than the character whose actions you have been guiding. I mean I'm not defending the things that Venom does, but it totally explains why Venom seems to be sleepwalking through a dream and is a passenger in Ocelot and MIller's plan. Before I was sure about the twist, I was unhappy with how passive Big Boss was in the leadership of his organization. Also, it being basically confirmed that Venom's horn is bone fragment from Paz makes his mental manifestation of her interesting. I mean, part of her is literally inside his head.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:01
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Snak posted:Also, it being basically confirmed that Venom's horn is bone fragment from Paz makes his mental manifestation of her interesting. I mean, part of her is literally inside his head. Oh my god, I missed that completely. Of course that's where all the fragments of bone and teeth came from 
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Sep 16, 2015 03:04
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Vengarr posted:Oh my god, I missed that completely. Of course that's where all the fragments of bone and teeth came from yeah, it's something that a lot of people assumed, but the ending cutscene makes it super-clear, since you see that the shrapnel is in his head immediately after shielding John from Paz exploding. Before seeing that, it seemed like it could have been from the collision with the other helicopter. Saw this on reddit: 
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Sep 16, 2015 03:12
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So what you're saying is that the reason he has the hallucinations is because he just can't seem to get paz out of his head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-btE-a6NHo
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Sep 16, 2015 03:18
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Vengarr posted:Oh my god, I missed that completely. Of course that's where all the fragments of bone and teeth came from Hey, I'm sure there's some Chico in there as well.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:29
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All in all, GZ and TPP's stories are pretty uncomfortable and hosed up. I'm not going to say that's a good thing, but the whole thing leaves me feeling sad. Like everyone failed. Paz was tortured and killed, Chico was tortured and killed. Ocelot tortured tons of people, including their "allies". Huey was a sack a poo poo. Strangelove died. Miller, except for hamburgers, was tortured and turned into a psychotic paranoid rage machine. Skullface failed. Sahelanthropus was a failure. Volgin failed. and Venom's dream of outer heaven failed, because ultimately, he and all his men were just tools of the real Big Boss. Big Boss became what he originally stood against. None of it mattered. It was all just senseless violence and pain, misguided attempts at creating change in a world that whose gears just kept rolling. Psycho Mantis, well, we see how he ends up. We see how Liquid ends up. Not a single character, good or bad, in this game has a happy ending or successful ending. Ocelot is probably the closest but really all he does is drift from winning team to winning team until he is the winning team and I didn't play MGS4 so I still don't know what happens there. I really want to, now, actually. so yeah, blah blah blah I feel the Phantom Pain. Like Big Boss, I yearn for the ideal MGS game that never was. Snake Eater is over, and no matter how many newer games I play, the only place I'm really at home is with the dual shock in my hand with someone talking in my ear telling me my mission.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:39
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ImpAtom posted:I don't get why Battle Gear wasn't cut entirely honestly. Nothing would be missed and Huey is justified as working on D-Walker. Remember how the game tells you to go check out your new battle gear in the hangar and when you get there it's empty? It's a metaphor or something
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Sep 16, 2015 03:48
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Snak posted:All in all, GZ and TPP's stories are pretty uncomfortable and hosed up. I'm not going to say that's a good thing, but the whole thing leaves me feeling sad. Like everyone failed. Paz was tortured and killed, Chico was tortured and killed. Ocelot tortured tons of people, including their "allies". Huey was a sack a poo poo. Strangelove died. Miller, except for hamburgers, was tortured and turned into a psychotic paranoid rage machine. Skullface failed. Sahelanthropus was a failure. Volgin failed. and Venom's dream of outer heaven failed, because ultimately, he and all his men were just tools of the real Big Boss. Big Boss became what he originally stood against. None of it mattered. It was all just senseless violence and pain, misguided attempts at creating change in a world that whose gears just kept rolling. Psycho Mantis, well, we see how he ends up. We see how Liquid ends up. Not a single character, good or bad, in this game has a happy ending or successful ending. Ocelot is probably the closest but really all he does is drift from winning team to winning team until he is the winning team and I didn't play MGS4 so I still don't know what happens there. I really want to, now, actually. For MGS4, Ocelot still basically wins. Also, nanomachines.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:54
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Snak posted:All in all, GZ and TPP's stories are pretty uncomfortable and hosed up. I'm not going to say that's a good thing, but the whole thing leaves me feeling sad. Like everyone failed. Paz was tortured and killed, Chico was tortured and killed. Ocelot tortured tons of people, including their "allies". Huey was a sack a poo poo. Strangelove died. Miller, except for hamburgers, was tortured and turned into a psychotic paranoid rage machine. Skullface failed. Sahelanthropus was a failure. Volgin failed. and Venom's dream of outer heaven failed, because ultimately, he and all his men were just tools of the real Big Boss. Big Boss became what he originally stood against. None of it mattered. It was all just senseless violence and pain, misguided attempts at creating change in a world that whose gears just kept rolling. Psycho Mantis, well, we see how he ends up. We see how Liquid ends up. Not a single character, good or bad, in this game has a happy ending or successful ending. Ocelot is probably the closest but really all he does is drift from winning team to winning team until he is the winning team and I didn't play MGS4 so I still don't know what happens there. I really want to, now, actually. Ocelot achieves his goal of freeing the world of Zero's influence via Old-man mustache Solid Snake assist. Also Zero is apparently the most competent character in MGS cause he actually succeeded in taking over the world between MGS3 and MGS4 (chronologically). and NANOMACHINES
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Sep 16, 2015 03:55
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Also Raiden succeeds after failing.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:58
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This story started with our main character getting called a pantywaist and ended with a cyborg ninja beating up Dick Cheney.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:58
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But didn't Zero basically lose control of his organization and become a figurehead for something that was kind of operating on it's own in his name? edit: Okay, I'm probably going to get poo poo for this, and even though MGS2 was my first MGS, I barely consider Raiden a real character.
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Sep 16, 2015 03:58
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Snak posted:All in all, GZ and TPP's stories are pretty uncomfortable and hosed up. I'm not going to say that's a good thing, but the whole thing leaves me feeling sad. Like everyone failed. Paz was tortured and killed, Chico was tortured and killed. Ocelot tortured tons of people, including their "allies". Huey was a sack a poo poo. Strangelove died. Miller, except for hamburgers, was tortured and turned into a psychotic paranoid rage machine. Skullface failed. Sahelanthropus was a failure. Volgin failed. and Venom's dream of outer heaven failed, because ultimately, he and all his men were just tools of the real Big Boss. Big Boss became what he originally stood against. None of it mattered. It was all just senseless violence and pain, misguided attempts at creating change in a world that whose gears just kept rolling. Psycho Mantis, well, we see how he ends up. We see how Liquid ends up. Not a single character, good or bad, in this game has a happy ending or successful ending. Ocelot is probably the closest but really all he does is drift from winning team to winning team until he is the winning team and I didn't play MGS4 so I still don't know what happens there. I really want to, now, actually. the ending-ending of MGS4 is taking an hour to say that everybody in the Big Boss era was a fuckup and that the world's better now that they're all dead and not loving poo poo up anymore
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Sep 16, 2015 03:59
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ImpAtom posted:I don't get why Battle Gear wasn't cut entirely honestly. Nothing would be missed and Huey is justified as working on D-Walker. it was you were supposed to be able to bring it with you on missions
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Sep 16, 2015 04:00
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Motto posted:the ending-ending of MGS4 is taking an hour to say that everybody in the Big Boss era was a fuckup and that the world's better now that they're all dead and not loving poo poo up anymore That's pretty loving lame. I don't disagree with the fuckup part, but I don't expect the MGS universe to get better ever, as far as being an unending meat-grinder of misery and sorrow.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:00
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The way the world is in Rising is a goddamn utopia compared to the Deus Ex dystopia created by Big Boss and his stupid friends.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:02
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Snak posted:But didn't Zero basically lose control of his organization and become a figurehead for something that was kind of operating on it's own in his name? Zero made the AI's that basically controlled everything. He ended up being a vegetable by the end of the series, so I guess. But he was still responsible for everything and got his way. Also Raiden ends up going from a complete bitch made crybaby in MGS2, to OK in MGS4, and kind of awesome in MGSR. He actually has a complete story arc through the whole series and gets a somewhat happy ending.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:03
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still a nerd though
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Sep 16, 2015 04:04
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Raiden ending up best off out of anybody makes me laugh and I'm glad it turned out that way.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:05
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Still just a skull on top of a jar though.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:07
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Actually Johnny ends up having the best ending cause he totally takes Solid Snakes lady while having the worst case of IBS in the history of humanity. He's also very pretty.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:08
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Lots of people who weren't Solidus, EVA, or Big Boss got happy endings with MGS4. Even David.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:10
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Romes128 posted:Actually Johnny ends up having the best ending cause he totally takes Solid Snakes lady while having the worst case of IBS in the history of humanity. He's also very pretty.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:11
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Snake, Emmerich, Sasaki... Three families...bound by fate...bound by the battlefield...
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Sep 16, 2015 04:12
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Stairmaster posted:it was I am aware. However it was not cut completely. It is still in the game.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:14
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Why does Snake end up sending his son against his own puppet (Venom) in Outer Heaven in MG1? Why does he also warn Venom that he is going to do this? What is his goal?
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Sep 16, 2015 04:19
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Megasabin posted:Why does Snake end up sending his son again his Venom in Outer Heaven in MG1? Why does he also warn Venom that he is going to do this? What is his goal? Snake is the least-experienced member of Foxhound. The intent was for his to fail while making it look like Big Boss was trying to do something. It's just that Snake succeeded wildly. Retroactively with Snake being his cloneson he probably just wanted a convenient way to kill him off too.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:20
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Megasabin posted:Why does Snake end up sending his son against his own puppet (Venom) in Outer Heaven in MG1? Why does he also warn Venom that he is going to do this? What is his goal? A Hideo Kojima Game
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Sep 16, 2015 04:20
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My avatar in TPP was an angry black man so some major loving plastic surgery happened in that week.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:25
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Romes128 posted:My avatar in TPP was an angry black man so some major loving plastic surgery happened in that week. 48 hours. It was REALLY good plastic surgery
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Sep 16, 2015 04:28
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Snak posted:That's pretty loving lame. I don't disagree with the fuckup part, but I don't expect the MGS universe to get better ever, as far as being an unending meat-grinder of misery and sorrow. MGS makes sense if you realize that it's basically the story of a bunch of unbelievably stupid gently caress ups and over dramatic prigs with an inflated sense of self importance doing absolutely nothing of note globally by virtue of either being incompetent or too up their own rear end with their philosophy. Like outside of that time that some terrorist basically did 9/11 with a flying aircraft carrier or something, none of the poo poo that any of the villains and protagonists wanted to do actually changed the world or affected it in a lasting way. And even then that's played off as not being a big deal in the grand scheme of things. The Boss is literally the only one to really affect any change on that scale, and the rest of the characters spend the entire series trying to ape her accomplishments. Accomplishments which literally got her killed in the end. Hell, the only real notable thing that happens is cybernetics being a big thing by the time Rising rolls around. And that was going to happen anyways. They just upped the time table/pushed it back a bit. At most the characters turned some third world corner of the world into a nightmarish war zone for maybe a few months before they got all the people following them killed and died a horrible death over their convoluted and stupid ideas. It's basically a deconstruction of why conspiracies and the people who try to run them are usually doomed to failure. Because no one in the series is as smart as they actually think they are. And everyone is running their own scheme that inevitably gets tangled to hell when it impacts with everyone else's schemes. Archonex fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 04:36
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Romes128 posted:My avatar in TPP was an angry black man so some major loving plastic surgery happened in that week. I'm a black chick with pink hair.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:43
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Archonex posted:MGS makes sense if you realize that it's basically the story of a bunch of unbelievably stupid gently caress ups and over dramatic prigs with an inflated sense of self importance doing absolutely nothing of note globally by virtue of either being incompetent or too up their own rear end with their philosophy. Zero and his AI's actually took over the world and controlled almost everything, and was responsible for PMC's being a thing and NANOMACHINES. BB, EVA, Ocelot, and the rest of the idiots have been trying to gently caress him up for DECADES. Solid ended up actually doing it cause everyone else in the world is incredibly stupid. As a side note, there should have been an endgame tape where BB calls Venom and is like, "Yo, can you knock it off with the child soldier poo poo, it's gonna give me a bad name." a cop posted:I'm a black chick with pink hair. MGS5 TPP is officially the most progressive game in the history of videogames. edit- I guess not cause you end up a powerful white man. lol. Romes128 fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 04:45
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ImpAtom posted:Snake is the least-experienced member of Foxhound. The intent was for his to fail while making it look like Big Boss was trying to do something. It's just that Snake succeeded wildly. Big Boss should probably have more confidence in literal clones of himself. Dude has some low self esteem if that's the case.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:45
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Megasabin posted:Big Boss should probably have more confidence in literal clones of himself. Dude has some low self esteem if that's the case. to be fair miller was the one training him.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:48
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I mean yeah. Kojima wants to both preach that war is futile and destructive AND jerk off to tactical military hardware. The contradiction that Snake (Boss and Solid) feel between negative effects of war and the only place they feel at home is reflected in the games themselves, because if we ever destroyed metal gear for good OR metal gear made conventional soldiers obsolete, there would be no more games. In order to keep making MGS games, they had to create a setting where gamers could go on sneaking missions forever, without the resolution of the last game's plot leaving them with no game to play.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:50
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Megasabin posted:Big Boss should probably have more confidence in literal clones of himself. Dude has some low self esteem if that's the case. Well, keep in mind that Big Boss only succeeded on his first mission because his mentor let him and he had tons of help, whereas Snake did it with his mentor actively betraying him and trying to gently caress him over. Snake's first success is a lot more impressive, Big Boss would have failed that mission.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:52
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Stairmaster posted:to be fair miller was the one training him. "OK David, I'm gonna train you to be the greatest soldier since Big Boss." "Cool, you need some help getting out of that chair Master Miller?"
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Sep 16, 2015 04:53
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Romes128 posted:Zero and his AI's actually took over the world and controlled almost everything, and was responsible for PMC's being a thing and NANOMACHINES. Did they really though? The most we actually visually see is them basically running PMC's against each other in one big masturbatory proxy war. Which is fairly self contained all by itself. Hell, Zero didn't even take over anything in the sense of actual rulership. He went into a vegetative state long before the AI's started doing the real work of trying to "run" the world. And even then they did a pretty terrible job of it given how MGS4 goes. Really, what they did was the same that the other villains did. They turned part of the world into a nightmarish hellhole while the other characters (Like Ocelot with that loving submarine.) in the series stroked off to the past. Then they got killed and the world basically shrugged, forgot about them, and moved on outside of a few characters with baggage. And that's not even getting into the fact that Zero turns out to have been on your side in TPP. He realized he was a colossal gently caress up and tried to fix things. Dude just gets knocked into a vegetative state before he could finish (his likely botched) plans to dismantle what he started. Archonex fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 04:54
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It's hard to believe that it was all sigints fault in the end.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:55
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