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What is it that Otacon said about looking past words and finding their true meaning?
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Sep 16, 2015 06:19
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:36 |
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I like that in true ending, we came full circle with a reference to the ending scene of Escape from LA Welcome to the human race That's probably why Chapter 2 is called Race.
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Sep 16, 2015 06:25
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:What is it that Otacon said about looking past words and finding their true meaning? i think what he says is something along the lines of 'gently caress huey'
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Sep 16, 2015 06:37
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That Hikari video is funny but the CGM-25 kills it faster even without hitting the canisters.
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Sep 16, 2015 06:46
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Jintor posted:i think what he says is something along the lines of 'gently caress huey' LOL. Huey is a buttlord. The quote I was asking about was from MGS2 right? I couldn't find it on youtube, and wanted to send it to someone.
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Sep 16, 2015 06:50
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:LOL. Huey is a buttlord. Yeah I think it's one of the lines he has during the Tanker chapter when he's mangling all of the ancient proverbs he's trying to give when saving. I haven't watched the whole thing but it should be in here somewhere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5-vr1VeNSg
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Sep 16, 2015 06:54
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Snak posted:so this is dumb, but I'm going to say it. I was just thinking how MGSV is basically the story quirks of 2, with reality not being what it seems, you not being real snake etc, while following the continuity of MGS3... In Mission 20 when Snake is being attacked by the Man on Fire but he freezes, Mantis is wearing Shabani's necklace showing that he's been taken over by Shabani's desire for death which is why he kills him.
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Sep 16, 2015 07:06
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I think the real problem with MGS V is that we don't get further updates on the weather when characters were born. I think it was probably cloudy with a chance of drizzle when Big Medic was born.
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Sep 16, 2015 08:04
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Dandywalken posted:Whats the thing on his shoulder for Eli? It's his tobacco, which in mgs represents free will.
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Sep 16, 2015 08:48
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Man, all those alternate endings, huh guys? The one where you discover you're actually Code Talker all along... gently caress! Or the one where Eli's true identity was revealed. And all this time I was led to believe he was Liquid Snake!   But really, the best was discovering that Kaz's phantom limbs... were there all along...   (Yes, the cigar actually floats into his mouth during the animation. It's wonderful.
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Sep 16, 2015 11:11
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proof that this game is the best, there's no naked paz/quiet anime retexture skin at the nexus. yet. gotta be some new kind of record.
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Sep 16, 2015 12:05
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Snak posted:All in all, GZ and TPP's stories are pretty uncomfortable and hosed up. I'm not going to say that's a good thing, but the whole thing leaves me feeling sad. Like everyone failed. Paz was tortured and killed, Chico was tortured and killed. Ocelot tortured tons of people, including their "allies". Huey was a sack a poo poo. Strangelove died. Miller, except for hamburgers, was tortured and turned into a psychotic paranoid rage machine. Skullface failed. Sahelanthropus was a failure. Volgin failed. and Venom's dream of outer heaven failed, because ultimately, he and all his men were just tools of the real Big Boss. Big Boss became what he originally stood against. None of it mattered. It was all just senseless violence and pain, misguided attempts at creating change in a world that whose gears just kept rolling. Psycho Mantis, well, we see how he ends up. We see how Liquid ends up. Not a single character, good or bad, in this game has a happy ending or successful ending. Ocelot is probably the closest but really all he does is drift from winning team to winning team until he is the winning team and I didn't play MGS4 so I still don't know what happens there. I really want to, now, actually. In MGS4, Ocelot ends up dead of a nanomachine heart attack atop a giant, metallic shrine to his own ego. He does succeed in the sense that he mostly gets what he wants in the end, though 
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Sep 16, 2015 12:19
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oh nexus being nexus. http://www.nexusmods.com/phantompain/mods/11/
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Sep 16, 2015 12:31
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This was a really good game but at the same time it was a really stupid one. gently caress whoever thought it was a good idea to take way Quiet and gently caress mission 46.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:13
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Vikar Jerome posted:oh nexus being nexus. http://www.nexusmods.com/phantompain/mods/11/ I'm pretty convinced I'm a horrible person but I see no huge issue with this. While Big Boss/Venom probably wouldn't intend to kill them, it is kind of stupid that you can't actually defend yourself with deadly weapons if you're spotted by them. I'm not going to use it but I don't see it as the same level as some of the Skyrim mods you see out there.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:24
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Personally I'm kind of glad to see a game do something with permanency for once.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:24
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RZApublican posted:In MGS4, Ocelot ends up dead of a nanomachine heart attack atop a giant, metallic shrine to his own ego. He does succeed in the sense that he mostly gets what he wants in the end, though But he fails in that Big Boss called them all fools.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:31
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Raxivace posted:Personally I'm kind of glad to see a game do something with permanency for once. There are things you can do with permanent changes to a game that don't involve taking something extremely useful away from the player just because
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Sep 16, 2015 15:32
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CJacobs posted:There are things you can do with permanent changes to a game that don't involve taking something extremely useful away from the player just because Eh. You can't really do the same thing without taking something useful or important away from the player. Making the player, not just the character, miss something means it has to be something the player will miss. By default that means it will either be something useful or something the player has an emotional attachment to. In the case of Quiet it was an attempt at doing both, though I think it failed at the latter. The mere fact that people are genuinely unhappy or upset at losing Quiet means it was a success at what it was doing. You can argue it is poor gameplay design but at that point you're running into the barrier that good gameplay design and attempts at using game narrative for storytelling are not always compatible.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:36
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Has anybody brought up that maybe Ocelot in Phantom Pain isn't Ocelot? Everybody complained that he sounded different and that Mother base needed a Russian translator when Ocelot is Russian as poo poo. I know he says something eventually about also hypnotizing himself, but maybe he meant that he was or.. something. I haven't beaten the game, but I'm not shy of spoilers. Just weird that I haven't heard many "what ifs.." just a lot of "But.. but.. my story.." Also, I haven't seen anything about Kaz being literally a super villain in this game. Or at least sounding like one. He talks circles around himself constantly and all he has going for him is blind revenge. First, and FOREMOST, he's all "Hey, Snake. Let's do it. Let's rebuild ArmyLand and beat the poo poo out of Cipher, those bastards. we'll MAKE THEM PAY!" Ok, cool. Plot. Direction. Bad guy. Got it. "I want to feel my arm and leg being gone. I want to SUFFER, so I can remember the PAIN and the HURT and the LOSS and be DRIVEN to REVENGE!!" Ok, buddy. Calm down. Get a robot arm. it's cool. Check it out. It'll be fine. "Ok, Snake. We gotta do this mission so we don't start a war with these other PFs. Our men can't be focused on revenge. They have to be focused on MY REVENGE!!" Alright. How do I send Kaz home for a vacation? You need to loving take a nap or something.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:37
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. You can't really do the same thing without taking something useful or important away from the player. Good game design > good narrative, in all cases If the game does things that are designed not to be fun to play, it doesn't matter if the story is good because I'm not going to play it edit: I should clarify though that losing Quiet is not as big of a split because you don't play AS Quiet, she just helps you out; but I wasn't attached to her. I was attached to how she helped me. Taking that away from me because they just unceremoniously felt like it is both lovely writing AND game design. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 15:38
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CJacobs posted:Good game design > good narrative, in all cases You may feel that way but it absolutely not exclusively true. A lot of extremely memorable moments in video games connect with people despite being bad game design. To go to the most infamous of spoilers, Aerith dying permanently removes a party member from your party with no way to recover them even despite them having powerful abilities that can't be replaced. It absolutely would not have had the same impact on people (up to and including rumors of resurrecting the character) if you didn't actually tangibly lose something. CJacobs posted:I was attached to how she helped me. Taking that away from me because they just unceremoniously felt like it is both lovely writing AND game design. You were attached to the character and you feel her loss. That is exactly the intended effect. Even if you only feel her loss due to her mechanical usefulness that doesn't actually change the fact that her loss leaves you feeling that absence. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 15:42
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Aeris dying was a pretty lovely plot device tooImpAtom posted:You were attached to the character and you feel her loss. That is exactly the intended effect. Even if you only feel her loss due to her mechanical usefulness that doesn't actually change the fact that her loss leaves you feeling that absence. But it doesn't affect me in any way at all. I just use d-dog instead. I don't have any connection to Quiet but I don't feel any loss or absence or emotions at all, I'm annoyed at them that I can't use her anymore because of cheap writing tricks. It's the opposite of what they intended.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:44
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CJacobs posted:Aeris dying was a pretty lovely plot device too So do you genuinely think games should never make you feel weak or unhappy?
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Sep 16, 2015 15:45
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CJacobs posted:Good game design > good narrative, in all cases You must have been pissed when Alys dies in Phantasy Star 4.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:46
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Aeros dying didn't matter that much in terms of gameplay since Limit Breaks were the main difference between characters due to how the materia system worked.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:47
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ImpAtom posted:So do you genuinely think games should never make you feel weak or unhappy? If it's well-written and not dumb schlock designed to make you hate the bad guy, twists like that are fine. It's still absolutely annoying, but it is excusable if it's not for literally no reason as in the case of Quiet. edit: And I mean literally no reason. There is no reason she had to die in that mission, but they did it anyway as a cheap excuse to make you the player feel bad about it happening. Which is poo poo from all angles. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 15:48
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ImpAtom posted:You may feel that way but it absolutely not exclusively true. A lot of extremely memorable moments in video games connect with people despite being bad game design. To go to the most infamous of spoilers, Aerith dying permanently removes a party member from your party with no way to recover them even despite them having powerful abilities that can't be replaced.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:53
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Arx Monolith posted:Has anybody brought up that maybe Ocelot in Phantom Pain isn't Ocelot? Live translation is extremely hard to do and Ocelot's a busy guy. He's not the kind of person you'd rely on to do your translating even if he were skilled at it.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:55
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Aeris dying theoretically leaves a hole in your defenses since she was the closest thing FF7 had to a dedicated healer. Gameplay wise though it's not as much of a loss as losing Quiet in MGSV. Quiet can literally S-Rank Metallic Archea [Extreme] on her own!
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Sep 16, 2015 15:56
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CJacobs posted:If it's well-written and not dumb schlock designed to make you hate the bad guy, twists like that are fine. It's still absolutely annoying, but it is excusable if it's not for literally no reason as in the case of Quiet. There's a difference between "I didn't like the writing" and "this is objectively bad game design." I thought it was absurdly hackneyed too but it was also basically the inevitable ending of the plot. If not in that point than another. I think the actual writing behind it was bad but I think the mere fact that people genuinely feel the character's loss means it is an effective use of the medium even if it is done in a ridiculous way. Someone being upset, angry or genuinely unhappy about what happened is Literally The Intended Goal and the game tries to go about it in different ways. The core writing behind Quiet is extremely bad but the concept of giving you a partner that you take for granted and who becomes an effective or even essential part of your playstyle, only to have you lose them and be left dealing with that is not bad writing for a game which talks about Phantom Pain every nine seconds. It can be both good and bad writing at the same time. Anime Schoolgirl posted:I'm not sure that's a good example because all characters in FF7 were functionally identical and the only limit breaks worth using were the ones that shat hits everywhere Nah, the characters actually had different stat blocks too. Aerith actually had (by a significant degree) the highest magic abilities in the game. Like Vincent literally has a nearly identical stat distribution to Aerith's but worse in every way. There are other examples though. I just chose one of the most commonly recognized. *Losing* something in a video game tends to only matter if it has mechanical consequences or if the game is absurdly well written. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 16:00
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I didn't care about quiet leaving because I had stopped using her when every guard in the world started wearing helmets which was about thirty minutes after I got her
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Sep 16, 2015 16:02
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ImpAtom posted:There's a difference between "I didn't like the writing" and "this is objectively bad game design." I thought it was absurdly hackneyed too but it was also basically the inevitable ending of the plot. If not in that point than another. I think the actual writing behind it was bad but I think the mere fact that people genuinely feel the character's loss means it is an effective use of the medium even if it is done in a ridiculous way. Someone being upset, angry or genuinely unhappy about what happened is Literally The Intended Goal and the game tries to go about it in different ways. Handling your own story's theme poorly is bad writing. There is no "it's bad AND good" just because their heart was in the right place.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:03
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CJacobs posted:Handling your own story's theme poorly is bad writing. There is no "it's bad AND good" just because their heart was in the right place. Sure there is. If the goal is to evoke an emotion in the player and it successfully evokes that emotion then it has done something right. If it was unsuccessful you wouldn't care or your response would be more like: lets hang out posted:I didn't care about quiet leaving because I had stopped using her when every guard in the world started wearing helmets which was about thirty minutes after I got her this. This is someone who that effect failed for. You care the character is gone and feel her absence, which is a successful attempt at making the player feel some of the emotion of the character. This guy just goes "eh, whatever, gently caress her" which means it failed completely for them.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:06
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CJacobs posted:Handling your own story's theme poorly is bad writing. There is no "it's bad AND good" just because their heart was in the right place. You're not some objective arbiter of writing quality just because you named a Homestuck character, bro.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:06
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Oxxidation posted:You're not some objective arbiter of writing quality just because you named a Homestuck character, bro. I'm honestly glad you remember that, but I'm using what is called common sense here. ImpAtom posted:Sure there is. If the goal is to evoke an emotion in the player and it successfully evokes that emotion then it has done something right. If it was unsuccessful you wouldn't care or your response would be more like: "Bad, but it had the intended effect" is still bad dude!!
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Sep 16, 2015 16:10
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Quiet leaving permanently for ~thematic~ reasons is stupid. I'm not playing Hideo Kojima's Metal Gear Solid: The Phantom PainŽ for deep emotional impact. I've playing to strap balloons to people, gently caress around, and enjoy the batshit story. This isn't Planescape Torment here, this is a game where a man with irritable bowel syndrome is a major plot point in releasing the world from killer nanomachines. It never bothered me because I've never used Quiet but I'm not blind to see that overall it's a negative thing to do for quite a lot of people and disagree with their decision to include it.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:11
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I used DD a ton but if he got hit by a truck at the end of the game I think my reaction would mostly be "oh bummer" and not big whiny rants about how the video game man took away my fun.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:14
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Same, but for a lot of people that's not the case. It's the concept of introducing a gameplay element and then taking it away. A lot of people hate that poo poo and even if it doesn't bother me I can totally see why a large percentage of people playing the game would be soured by that. Don't worry, MGSV is still the tops and GOTY as far as most people are concerned. I see no reason why people can't vent and criticize things they find annoying. There's room for all sorts of MGSV discussion imo.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:18
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:36 |
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CJacobs posted:"Bad, but it had the intended effect" is still bad dude!! Not it isn't because storytelling doesn't exist on only one level. Something can have objectively terrible plotting but still have an emotional impact on you. It is possible for something (and this doesn't just include games) to be simultaneously both good and bad. Red Mundus posted:Quiet leaving permanently for ~thematic~ reasons is stupid. I'm not playing Hideo Kojima's Metal Gear Solid: The Phantom PainŽ for deep emotional impact. You may not but but there are unarguably people who are. There are quite a few people who cite the death of The Boss as an extremely emotionally strong moment for example. You can argue until you're blue that it isn't deserved but the franchise has a heavy reputation for gameplay/story integration. Red Mundus posted:This isn't Planescape Torment here Planescape Torment is a D&D spinoff. There is basically no reason in the world you can go "Well, it is okay for THAT to attempt stuff but not this." D&D is not high-writing and Planescape is only noteworthy by the standards of low video game writing. Arguing that nobody should ever try because they're not a D&D spinoff is silly.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:19
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