Unmature posted:Now someone balance this out by posting some panels of American Flagg. That comic is GORGEOUS. No it isn't. Howard Chaykin having theoretically drawn something good one time while no witnesses were around is no excuse for his modern work, at any rate. Dude comes on comics and ruins them.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:32
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Howard Chaykin accurately predicted the future of media like 17 goddamned times. You will respect Howard Chaykin.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:36
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If he stops pretending to be an artist and sticks to writing, then I'll think about respecting him.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:39
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Lurdiak posted:No it isn't.  I've never read American Flagg, but just from Google Images I can tell it was a million times better then his current work.
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Sep 16, 2015 05:50
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His Shadow stuff is worth every page of his modern output just for the lettering.
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Sep 16, 2015 06:03
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The first 12 issues of American Flagg! were so loving good, you guys. So loving good. Like "deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns' good. The Duoshade illustration boards Chaykin was using let him do some amazing things with shaded textures and there's some phenomenal use of what I think was Zipatone that gives the art this amazing sort of Pop Art feel. It cannot be overstated just how excellent that book was. Chaykin's art isn't my cup of tea these days either, but Jesus. So good. Anyone who wants to say Chaykin doesn't deserve respect is a butt.
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Sep 16, 2015 07:51
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Black Kiss is hot fire, too.
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Sep 16, 2015 07:56
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Those Scary Godmother pages are gorgeous. I think an earlier poster is completely right when they brought up the issue of modern colouring being bloody awful in the main, compare those beautiful Scary Godmother pages or Blacksad with the kind of flat, lazy 'click to fill' bullshit you see on a lot of comics these days, it just makes you wonder how good a lot of books could really look if some actual effort was applied to the colouring.
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Sep 16, 2015 10:43
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Lurdiak posted:If he stops pretending to be an artist and sticks to writing, then I'll think about respecting him. Who the hell are you that anybody cares that you hold your respect for ransom like this. You're school on Saturday man, you sit down and keep quiet. When your rear end is 64 you probably won't be as good at what you did your entire life (being petulant on message boards) either.
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Sep 16, 2015 12:45
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Travis343 posted:Who the hell are you that anybody cares that you hold your respect for ransom like this. You're school on Saturday man, you sit down and keep quiet. When your rear end is 64 you probably won't be as good at what you did your entire life (being petulant on message boards) either. You seem really mad about me having opinions.
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Sep 16, 2015 12:47
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Lurdiak posted:You seem really mad about me having opinions. Your opinions are bullshit. Your opinions are a fart into the soundhole of an acoustic guitar. Howard Chaykin rules. If I do nothing else on this messageboard built as it is on a swamp of lies and ignorance I will go to bat for Howard Chaykin. I was given American Flagg! to read at a young age and it has left an impression. I have always felt he did not get his dues for how good his comics were. Now he is old and people who don't know what's what are talking uneducated baloney about the man. I will stand for a lot of things in this world but that is not one of them. Do not confuse righteous indignation with anger.
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Sep 16, 2015 12:53
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Oh, that explains your reaction to me not respecting a guy who repeatedly handed in total dog poo poo on books that I genuinely cared about, completely ruining them. Even if he'd drawn and written my favorite comics from the 80s, I can't really react to the comic book art equivalent of being flipped off with anything but contempt. "I know you wanted this book to look good, but I'm Howard Chaykin and I don't have to do my job right to get paid."
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Sep 16, 2015 12:59
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I sure am tired of all these
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Sep 16, 2015 13:13
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Travis343 posted:Who the hell are you that anybody cares that you hold your respect for ransom like this. You're school on Saturday man, you sit down and keep quiet. When your rear end is 64 you probably won't be as good at what you did your entire life (being petulant on message boards) either.
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Sep 16, 2015 13:32
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Lurdiak posted:Oh, that explains your reaction to me not respecting a guy who repeatedly handed in total dog poo poo on books that I genuinely cared about, completely ruining them. You're welcome to not like Howard Chaykin. Taste is subjective after all. I realize you're Canadian but I think our constitutions are similar enough that I can agree that you have that freedom. You're wrong, but you're welcome to be wrong. What's bullshit, is when you stand on top of that wrong, and say a bunch of loud ignorant noise about it. You say stuff like he 'theoretically' made good art 'one time'. This is just crass. You're being rude, intentionally, and you know it. My point is the man does not deserve your sass. He is a well accomplished older gentleman, and you are an ignorant younger dude of Internets. There's no question here of who should respect who. You're making yourself look bad here. Howard Chaykin is unaffected by your foolish posturing. That's all I'm going to say since this is a pretty gnarly derail but I will close with some good Howard Chaykin art since this is the Good Art Thread.     
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Sep 16, 2015 13:47
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I'm really not that young.
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Sep 16, 2015 13:48
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Travis343 posted:You're welcome to not like Howard Chaykin. Taste is subjective after all. I realize you're Canadian but I think our constitutions are similar enough that I can agree that you have that freedom. You're wrong, but you're welcome to be wrong.  e: 
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Sep 16, 2015 14:00
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I don't really think there's anything wrong with calling out his modern work for looking like total garbage. Which it definitely does. People do the same thing with JRJR. The fact that they did good work once upon a time doesn't make it acceptable to keep churning out lazy poo poo. If that were the case no one is ever allowed to complain about Bendis.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:06
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Travis343 posted:You're welcome to not like Howard Chaykin. Taste is subjective after all. I realize you're Canadian but I think our constitutions are similar enough that I can agree that you have that freedom. You're wrong, but you're welcome to be wrong. When I was young and dumb(er), I found Kirby and Ditko to be unpleasant and uncomfortable to read. Like something was wrong with it.  Tastes can change.  e: Slightly more on-topic, although I don't have any pictures to post right now: one thing Ditkirby did that nobody does nowadays was draw some people as ugly. Just straight-up nasty to look at. I wish there were a little more of that. prefect fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 14:20
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Lurdiak posted:No it isn't. He rules
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Sep 16, 2015 14:24
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Hakkesshu posted:I don't really think there's anything wrong with calling out his modern work for looking like total garbage. Which it definitely does. People do the same thing with JRJR. The fact that they did good work once upon a time doesn't make it acceptable to keep churning out lazy poo poo. If that were the case no one is ever allowed to complain about Bendis. Bingo. Lurdiak might be abrasive but he's totally valid in his argument against Chaykin.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:24
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He's actually just some smug comic book dweeb haha
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Sep 16, 2015 14:25
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That's not an argument anyone here gets to level against someone else with a straight face and you know it.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:27
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mind the walrus posted:Bingo. Lurdiak might be abrasive but he's totally valid in his argument against Chaykin. Of course he is, it's just that... A Gnarlacious Bro posted:He's actually just some smug comic book dweeb haha
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Sep 16, 2015 14:30
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I wasn't saying that Chaykin is terrible always every time. I was referring specifically to my Immortal Iron Fist experience, where his work is a straight kick to the nuts. It doesn't fit, it's ugly, and it's not even stylistically appropriate (like it being a 50's flashback or something--it's just Danny in the modern day after sneaking out of a tournament.) Conversely, Dan Brereton's art is nothing like Aja's, but he got put on the Action Serial Adventures of Orson Randall sections of the Annual, where it fits in much more, and has a reason to look so different than what has come past. Marvel editorial should have done a better job of sourcing the other part of the annual out to someone who maybe fit in with the stylistic mold David Aja had completely made his own for that series. Danny Rand, as depicted in IIF, should not have a face that you could build a house out of, for one thing. Nor should he have Simpsons lips. It was an unfortunate misfire, but I'm glad he's probably not going to show up again during the series. redbackground fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 14:30
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Equeen posted:Of course he is, it's just that... mind the walrus posted:That's not an argument anyone here gets to level against someone else with a straight face and you know it.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:31
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Chaykin has done really good stuff and also really bad stuff, just like me, Barack Obama
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Sep 16, 2015 15:33
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Equeen posted:Of course he is, it's just that... That is what we all are tho.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:41
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Howard Chaykin is a better artist than your favorite artist, assuming your favorite artist isn't already Howard Chaykin
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Sep 16, 2015 18:42
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redbackground posted:I wasn't saying that Chaykin is terrible always every time. I was referring specifically to my Immortal Iron Fist experience, where his work is a straight kick to the nuts. It doesn't fit, it's ugly, and it's not even stylistically appropriate (like it being a 50's flashback or something--it's just Danny in the modern day after sneaking out of a tournament.) Conversely, Dan Brereton's art is nothing like Aja's, but he got put on the Action Serial Adventures of Orson Randall sections of the Annual, where it fits in much more, and has a reason to look so different than what has come past. Every time I read this part of the series, even though I know I'm reading about Iron Fist, when I initially see that picture you posted, for a brief second my brain thinks it's Steve Rogers.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:51
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Its not even the worst art in the series as that goes to whoever did this Immortal Weapons 
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Sep 16, 2015 19:52
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bobkatt013 posted:Its not even the worst art in the series as that goes to whoever did this Rock over K'un Lun, rock on Chicago
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Sep 16, 2015 20:06
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bobkatt013 posted:Its not even the worst art in the series as that goes to whoever did this The bug-eyed face grabs your attention, and then you start noticing the strange fat distribution and the crooked gun. A Gnarlacious Bro posted:He's actually just some smug comic book dweeb haha These words, like daggers...
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Sep 16, 2015 22:01
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There is nothing wrong with criticizing an artists more recent work, and it by no means diminishes their past artwork. The good art will still be around, just like the bad art. Chaykin is a good example of this (and saying his current output is garbage does in no way mean all his artwork is garbage). Another good example of this is Kyle Baker, whose older stuff has always been fun cartoonish stuff and his current stuff borders on poser crap.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:25
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Travis343 posted:You're welcome to not like Howard Chaykin. Taste is subjective after all. I realize you're Canadian but I think our constitutions are similar enough that I can agree that you have that freedom. You're wrong, but you're welcome to be wrong. I can't be the only one who looks at these three pieces and thinks they're the same man in each drawing...
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Sep 17, 2015 00:19
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They are rather generic yeah.
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Sep 17, 2015 00:49
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The Steve Dillon effect
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Sep 18, 2015 03:48
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redbackground posted:Marvel editorial should have done a better job of sourcing the other part of the annual out to someone who maybe fit in with the stylistic mold David Aja had completely made his own for that series. Danny Rand, as depicted in IIF, should not have a face that you could build a house out of, for one thing. Nor should he have Simpsons lips. It was an unfortunate misfire, but I'm glad he's probably not going to show up again during the series. It was not Marvel editorial, Matt Fraction is a giant Chaykin fanboy.
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Sep 18, 2015 07:53
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Chaykin does have certain stock characters he always draws: the square-jawed, vaguely Semitic-looking hero who looks like an old-timey matinee idol, the icy, WASPy blonde ball-busting femme fatale, etc. I think he once likened these familiar designs to a director working with the same actors in a repertory company, like the old Hollywood studio system. Frankly, that explanation worked for me.
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Sep 18, 2015 14:31
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Meh, not that different from Osamu Tezuka's "Star System" I suppose, but for the fact that he clearly "casts" his "actors" onto set characters with very recognizable looks that don't match at all, like Indy up there.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:27
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