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Scrolling through my FB feed, and one of my friends was participating in this conversation. I'm not friends with the person that made the original post, but I could browse. This one lady says this.  Then backs it up with this graph.  So loving stupid. How is this person allowed to be a RN? JUST MAKING CHILI fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 21:31
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Dead images.
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Sep 18, 2015 22:29
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The Mandingo posted:Scrolling through my FB feed, and one of my friends was participating in this conversation. I'm not friends with the person that made the original post, but I could browse. let's try this again but actually copying the image links and not the imgur url
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Sep 18, 2015 22:32
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"Modern medicine was preventing people from outright dieing from a disease, therefore a vaccine had nothing to do with it being nearly eradicated." -a nurse
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Sep 18, 2015 22:50
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Also, that graph only goes up to 1960, which is BEFORE the loving vaccine was introduced. What does it look like afterwards?
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Sep 18, 2015 22:54
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Usually these graph includes data covering much higher mortality so that due to the scale of the graph you cannot see any reduction after The 1950s anyway. Either way, it's better to look at the number of infections as opposed to how many people died as it's much easier to spot the effect of the vaccine as opposed to looking at the effects of improvement of medical care.
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Sep 18, 2015 23:05
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torpedan posted:Usually these graph includes data covering much higher mortality so that due to the scale of the graph you cannot see any reduction after The 1950s anyway. Either way, it's better to look at the number of infections as opposed to how many people died as it's much easier to spot the effect of the vaccine as opposed to looking at the effects of improvement of medical care. They'll argue that even if the vaccine reduced infection rates - and ~*we know*~ a vitamin D supplement would have the same effect - it doesn't matter if people were getting measles because no one was dying from it. Why fill your child's body with toxic chemicals and get the 'tism?
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Sep 19, 2015 01:57
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MeLKoR posted:They'll argue that even if the vaccine reduced infection rates - and ~*we know*~ a vitamin D supplement would have the same effect - it doesn't matter if people were getting measles because no one was dying from it. Why fill your child's body with toxic chemicals and get the 'tism? Might be hilarious to flip it, why do you hate autists etc. I imagine most of these people are 'socially conscious' bored housewives/husbands. E: gently caress it, have some ancient customer service secrets. Ask open ended questions. Don't take a stand, just ask them to clarify their positions. Eventually, you will give them enough rope to Carradine themselves. goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 04:11
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As someone who features on the Autistic spectrum, its rather hard not to take this whole thing a bit personally. In the sense that the risk of a dead child is preferable to the risk of a child that suffers from autism. I mean come on man that hurts. 
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Sep 19, 2015 04:44
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These people don't think rationally. It's all about their fears and not at all about what their worst-case scenario would actually be like. I doubt most of them know anything at all about autism and don't think they really care to learn.
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Sep 19, 2015 05:01
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I suppose this puts the organic and paleo-dieters at odds with the anti-vaxxers. If all your immune system needs to fight disease is a proper diet then a modern diet must be fantastic and pre-1950s food straight up toxic.
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Sep 19, 2015 07:01
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quote:Antivaxxer Stefan Lanka offered 100,000 Euros for proof that the measles virus exists. When a biologist provided the proof, Lanka refused the pay. Now a court is making him cough up. http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/haftbefehl-gegen-impfgegner-erlassen-streit-ueber-viren-a-1055116.html
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Sep 29, 2015 14:23
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There are still people who deny germ theory. Perhaps he was one of those. Pfft, foolish scientists. Don't they know miasma from bad air is what causes sickness*? * Well, malaria. That's what the word actually means: bad air.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:38
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Gorilla Salad posted:There are still people who deny germ theory. Perhaps he was one of those. There are still miasma towers (basically ventilation ducts opening in low towers far from the buildings) on the grounds of the major hospital in my area. The miasma theory had basically been disproven when they were built (1890 ish?) but they were all "why take a chance?".
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Sep 29, 2015 17:46
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Klaus88 posted:As someone who features on the Autistic spectrum, its rather hard not to take this whole thing a bit personally. When parents of kids on the spectrum get together, bad poo poo comes out. I wish it was easier for them to dump their kids on the state so they could shut the gently caress up and go sailing or whatever.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:53
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CommieGIR posted:http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/haftbefehl-gegen-impfgegner-erlassen-streit-ueber-viren-a-1055116.html Goddamn this is glorious.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:28
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Due date for California antivaxxers to turn in signatures for an Anti-SB277 ballot referendum was yesterday. It is currently looking as if they have fallen far short of the needed signatures. The anti groups on facebook are being publicly quite quiet while privately turning on one another. Apparently "someone" (i.e. those other antivax groups) are probably paid big pharma shills who "lost or stole boxes full of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of signatures." And by lost or stole, I believe they mean that they spent something in the range of $200k on paid signature gatherers and still failed to collect enough.
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Sep 30, 2015 01:45
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Jim Carey's girlfriend apparently suicided last night. Over/under on when he starts shrieking about 'BIG PHARMA CUNSPIRUHSEE!!!111' and 'SHE KNEW TOO MUCH!!11111'?
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Sep 30, 2015 02:15
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Astrofig posted:Jim Carey's girlfriend apparently suicided last night. Over/under on when he starts shrieking about 'BIG PHARMA CUNSPIRUHSEE!!!111' and 'SHE KNEW TOO MUCH!!11111'? Wrong girlfriend.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:18
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Did Jim Carrey actually care about that stuff or did he just go along with it so he could keep banging Jenny McCarthey?
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Sep 30, 2015 02:18
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boom boom boom posted:Did Jim Carrey actually care about that stuff or did he just go along with it so he could keep banging Jenny McCarthey? He posted a huge rant about it pretty recently, after the breakup. I think he's a True Believer.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:20
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/anti-vaxxers-hope-to-sidestep-vermont-immunization-laws-by-starting-their-own-religion/ Pricks against Pricks
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Sep 30, 2015 04:06
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bobjr posted:http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/anti-vaxxers-hope-to-sidestep-vermont-immunization-laws-by-starting-their-own-religion/ Good luck with that. This wouldn't be the first time somebody set up a new religion to try get around the law. And the courts tend to come down hard against made up religions designed to skirt the law. Just ask the Scientologists. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 08:31
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thrakkorzog posted:Good luck with that. That might not be the best example. Unless 
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Sep 30, 2015 09:25
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MeLKoR posted:That might not be the best example. Unless The Scientologists still had to spend millions of dollars, and set up a massive spy network, probably blackmailing a few people, in order to get classified as a religion.
thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 09:32
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Morning talk radio guy was getting a flu shot today on air. That's a good way to support flu shots, and of course remind people like me who have forgotten to get one this year. The downside is that he threw in a whole word mincing "This might not be what you believe in so you don't have to listen or get one if you don't want to" thing for anti-vaxxers. Which just made me sad and even a little annoyed.
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Sep 30, 2015 12:29
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I'm in training to be a pharmacy technician and recently assisted with a flu shot clinic at an assisted living facility. One person in their mid-90s shared they got the flu when they first immigrated to the US and swore they'd never get it again because their experience was so awful. They've been getting annual flu shots as long as they've been available! The experience reminded me that most of the people there grew up in a time with no vaccinations, meaning they had to experience the worries of getting sick and never truly recovering, or even dying. It makes me sad and angry there are still vehement anti-vaxxers that are more terrified of being wrong than they are of losing a child or being responsible for the health of the immunocompromised.
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Sep 30, 2015 14:01
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:One person in their mid-90s shared they got the flu when they first immigrated to the US and swore they'd never get it again because their experience was so awful. Contrast this with people who think the "flu" isn't so bad because they got a cold that wasn't so bad.
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Sep 30, 2015 14:48
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thrakkorzog posted:
Setup a massive spy ring and spend a few million in order to avid paying billions in taxes? That's a pretty easy call.
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Oct 2, 2015 05:50
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wilderthanmild posted:Contrast this with people who think the "flu" isn't so bad because they got a cold that wasn't so bad. It's also common for people to declare that mild cases of food poisoning were "the stomach flu" and say that influenza isn't so bad. A lot of things that aren't the flu get called the flu. "I got the flu vaccine and still got sick" is stupid because not everything that gets you sick is the flu.
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Oct 13, 2015 16:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It's also common for people to declare that mild cases of food poisoning were "the stomach flu" and say that influenza isn't so bad. A lot of things that aren't the flu get called the flu. I also had a friend who thought that once you got the (actual) 'flu you could never get it again, because I suppose he didn't understand that there are different strains of the flu (and also he's a giant goddamn moron).
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Oct 13, 2015 16:39
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ToxicSlurpee posted:"I got the flu vaccine and still got sick" is stupid because not everything that gets you sick is the flu. This isn't exactly an incorrect statement though. It's quite common actually to get a flu shot, and then get the flu later the same year. The people who produce the shot do nothing more than anticipate what strand of flu is going to hit the hardest, and manufacture the vaccine around that. Last year they totally hosed up, and the flu strand they prepared for wasn't the most widespread one, so TONS of people got the flu. However, you are correct that not everything is the flu, yet everyone says they have the flu when they're sick.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:28
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How to tell if you have the stomach flu: Are your poo poo and vomit the same color? Is it dripping from the ceiling? Is some retard on the news saying that stomach flu is no big deal?
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Oct 13, 2015 23:48
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Apparently you can literally shock-image someone into vaccinating: http://www.vocativ.com/news/217814/how-to-debate-vaccine-skeptics
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Oct 14, 2015 03:46
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Astrofig posted:Apparently you can literally shock-image someone into vaccinating: I'm skeptical- I'll check their methods when I get into the office tomorrow. I don't doubt there's an effect, but most intervention persuasion studies don't seem to scale well, or use poor controls.
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Oct 14, 2015 04:35
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Astrofig posted:Apparently you can literally shock-image someone into vaccinating: Only Facebook slapfight I've ever been in, I ended up resorting to this. The antivaxxer essentially said "Let's agree to disagree" and deleted the entire convo shortly after. I still think going through the motions of trying to use reason is important to demonstrate good faith though, and I'm worried that using this strategy could get one painted with the same brush as anti-choicers who swing around gory posters.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:12
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Discendo Vox posted:I'm skeptical- I'll check their methods when I get into the office tomorrow. I don't doubt there's an effect, but most intervention persuasion studies don't seem to scale well, or use poor controls. As people like to say here, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. It makes some sense to me you can scare a person out a position they (irrationally) scared themselves into (OMG AUTIZMS).
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Oct 14, 2015 17:51
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Discendo Vox posted:I'm skeptical- I'll check their methods when I get into the office tomorrow. I don't doubt there's an effect, but most intervention persuasion studies don't seem to scale well, or use poor controls. I'm seconding this, I don't have time right now to look at it but generally speaking, you require more than just shock or dear to elicit behaviour/attitude change. This assertion is pretty well supported by the literature.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:21
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My time-to-check has been indefinitely postponed by impending comprehensive exams. I'll get around to it eventually.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:36
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It's a weird paper, I think. I've had a brief look at it, and the thing which makes it weird for me is the fact that it does kind of run against a fair body of literature on the topic of attitude change and cognitive dissonance. The condition which produced the "attitude change" was comprised of a distressing picture, an anecdote, and why it is important for a child to be vaccinated. Currently, it is generally accepted that fear/distress is not very effective in creating attitude change because people become desensitized to it. This can be mitigated somewhat if you can provide ways in which the person can avoid any supposed negative outcomes. Cognitive dissonance is also involved in attitude change, but it can also cause a person to disregard information which doesn't support their own argument, so thats why I think this is weird. There's perhaps some methodological issues with the paper, but overall the biggest test in this case is seeing if this replicates.
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Oct 19, 2015 10:27
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