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Ytlaya posted:The point is that the whole "being a doctor as a front to steal kids' quirks" thing makes no sense if the kids are only coming to you when they think they have no quirk at all. It's possible he's just a paediatrician and they steal the quirk very early on during a check up. I mean, if All for One dude has like a billion quirks he could have just given the Doctor a "scan someone and know exactly what their Quirk is even before it manifests" power. Though at this point, I'm really stretching to fit a theory. Roland Jones posted:I'm pretty sure that's not what he said, just that Todoroki would have One For All in addition to his own powers, and would thus be an extremely effective hero, which is what Deku was sad about. "Wouldn't it have been better to give it to someone with a strong quirk rather than me?" and all that. Yeah upon double checking you are right. I do maintain that there's been nothing said over whether other Quirks can be passed on using One for All yet, so I stubbornly maintain my position until explicitly proven otherwise. I am curious how the "Stockpiling Power" quirk worked originally though. It looks like society collapsed and had to be basically rebuilt after Quirks emerged, which is kind of cool. Since we can guess from that image that before Deku there have been seven previous users of One for All, I'd estimate that unless they were all dying pretty quickly, assuming an average of 15 years per user that means the stuff with All for One happened approximately a hundred years ago.
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Sep 19, 2015 03:28
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That's the thing. We haven't met any previous users, and optimistically its been 100-150 years since One For All was created. Having OfA seems to lead to a very short life, and giving it up seems to be fatal too. So basically, Midoriya is doomed one way or another. Edit: dyslexic moment Fabricated fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 04:27
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^^^ One for All is Midoriya's, not All for One. Think of it as One for All is a single power spread among multiple people and All for One is multiple powers in a single person. Well the OfA users are probably only giving it up when they're young to lower the chance they get taken out by AfO before they can pass it on. If AfO wasn't around the person with OfA could wait until they're elderly before passing it on.
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Sep 19, 2015 04:49
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RatHat posted:^^^ One for All is Midoriya's, not All for One. Think of it as One for All is a single power spread among multiple people and All for One is multiple powers in a single person. Given the way the power build up has so far been explained, it's only in the last couple generations that One For All would have become powerful enough for All For One to give a poo poo. Even then the users have lasted for at least one generation of heroes. 20 or more years before being passed on seems quite doable. Several Users probably didn't pass it on until they got old. Hell, All Might is only doing it because he got hosed up and is dying anyway.
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Sep 19, 2015 05:44
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RatHat posted:^^^ One for All is Midoriya's, not All for One. Think of it as One for All is a single power spread among multiple people and All for One is multiple powers in a single person. I think the simpler way to think of it is that One For All is about the heroic ideal of One super-person sacrificing themselves for the greater good of All. IE; The good guys. All For One is being used as the opposite: everything else (All) exist merely to serve the One. IE: The bad guy.
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Sep 19, 2015 05:58
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One for all probably puts a decent strain on your body even when you get good at using it plus i'm sure all of it's users have had a penchant for jumping into danger and doing superhero poo poo which also cuts down your lifespan just by exposing you to more danger so it wouldn't be that far fetched if most one for all users died relatively young.
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Sep 19, 2015 06:09
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Once Deku confronts that evil doctor, we'll get an entire chapter about how he and his twin brother were separated at birth. Edit: The doctor's twin. Not Deku.
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Sep 19, 2015 23:58
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Everyone has an evil twin. No exceptions.
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Sep 20, 2015 00:04
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Clarste posted:Everyone has an evil twin. No exceptions. But if that includes the evil twin, doesn't that mean... triplets?!
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Sep 20, 2015 00:05
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Astro Nut posted:But if that includes the evil twin, doesn't that mean... triplets?! We've already gone down this path and Kurokami is not good.
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Sep 20, 2015 00:08
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Gyges posted:Disagree. It goes down to almost zero because it means that his job in the evil empire is finding kids with useful quirks for All For One to gank. Like the regeneration quirk he was talking about this chapter. Which is to say, yes, you're probably correct.
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Sep 20, 2015 00:14
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Bad Seafood posted:At the time I made that post I thought that maybe the doctor was discouraging Deku from discovering his hidden, actually powerful quirk or something - nipping a thread in the bud early - but the longer I thought about it the less sense that made. Yes, I hope this manga about a kid with no quirk learning to deal with having the most powerful one secretly had an even stronger one from birth that was stolen. It's not like Midoriya is super overpowered with everyone falling over themselves about him and giving him more opportunities than the other kids as it is. Or he had a quirk and it was replaced with one that makes every boy go gay for him. Quick, someone post more of those comics.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 20, 2015 00:54
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I don't want Deku to have secretly had a quirk, I was just clumsily speculating at the possibility of foul play in his diagnosis given what we know currently. My theory's been debunked and I'm glad others in this thread thought to correct my knee-jerk assessment. Quit with the passive-aggressive posting.
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Sep 20, 2015 01:10
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Ok I read the chapter but I still don't know what the powers are all about
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Sep 20, 2015 02:01
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So my theory is that if One for All is about sacrificing yourself to empower the future generation then All for One is about sacrificing the future for yourself. So Scarface dude is going to use some quirk to take over handguy's body to use him as a new host or something. And while he probably does actually have an immortality quirk somewhere, he's probably been raising progressively stronger host bodies to steal.
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Sep 20, 2015 02:45
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frajaq posted:Ok I read the chapter but I still don't know what the powers are all about All For One can steal and redistribute quirks. The user stole an eternal youth quirk and is still alive. He's a massive shitheel. His brother appeared to not have a quirk, but actually his quirk was the ability to pass his quirk on to another person, with literally no other effects. All For One gives his brother a quirk that "stockpiles power" which then mutates and combines with the brother's natural quirk and creates One For All.
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Sep 20, 2015 02:50
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TriffTshngo posted:All For One can steal and redistribute quirks. The user stole an eternal youth quirk and is still alive. He's a massive shitheel. His brother appeared to not have a quirk, but actually his quirk was the ability to pass his quirk on to another person, with literally no other effects. All For One gives his brother a quirk that "stockpiles power" which then mutates and combines with the brother's natural quirk and creates One For All. The ability to give their quirk to someone of their choice, which might make it unstealable by All for one... and which also might have made it undetectable by All for One? He might have seen at some point if his brother had a quirk he could take and when All for One (the power) came back with "No Quirk that can be stolen here." he just assumed his brother must be quirkless.
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Sep 20, 2015 06:26
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It annoys me that someone had what is basically a vestigial quirk in the very first generation born with them. The ability to pass on a quirk when you have no quirk beyond that to pass on is completely useless on it's own and only has worth when mixed with something else. Which coincidentally happened for reasons the author didn't clarify beyond "his brother did it for some reason or other". It feels like Horikoshi wasn't actually able to come up with a good explanation for it, at least in time if he had to come up with it in the last week or three, and just kind of bodged it - possibly to shore it up later if he thinks of something better in the meantime. There probably is more going on there than I know on his end, but it's certainly the feeling the backstory gives off to me regardless.
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Sep 20, 2015 11:23
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Why are you assuming that quirks need to have worth? There's no explanation for them, and they seem to be totally random. It shouldn't matter what generation they developed in either. Like, I'm not even sure what you were trying to imply with that. I dunno, the way you phrased that gives the impression you think there must be some kind a purpose behind every quirk, which I can't really wrap my head around.
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Sep 20, 2015 12:06
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tsob posted:It annoys me that someone had what is basically a vestigial quirk in the very first generation born with them. The ability to pass on a quirk when you have no quirk beyond that to pass on is completely useless on it's own and only has worth when mixed with something else. Which coincidentally happened for reasons the author didn't clarify beyond "his brother did it for some reason or other". It feels like Horikoshi wasn't actually able to come up with a good explanation for it, at least in time if he had to come up with it in the last week or three, and just kind of bodged it - possibly to shore it up later if he thinks of something better in the meantime. why does it surprise you that the first generation would have people with quirks that weren't helpful, or even destructive to the owner?
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Sep 20, 2015 12:16
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Vestigial is probably the wrong word to use, since vestigial implies it had a use in the past. It's not that I think they need to have notable value, negative or positive to exist so much as I think that "the ability to pass on an ability" has no reason to exist outside of this one really specific circumstance. Without some other kind of ability on top of it, no matter how small or inconsequential, "the ability to pass on an ability" isn't really an ability. It's a nothing. Not every power needs to be a strong combat power or even have positive worth (the ability to change the colors of flower petals stands out as one minor one from X-Men), but "the ability to pass on an ability" has nothing until there's another power added to it. I suppose what I'm complaining about in reality is that the backstory for One For All comes off as really contrived and rushed to me, like the author either couldn't think of something better or just wanted to get it out of the way as quickly as possible. Which probably pleases most people here since everyone else seems to love that he gets arcs out of the way literally as fast as he can, but personally I think he could stand to slow down a touch in some of them and expand on some things just a bit more. It just seems really convenient that he just happened to have "the ability to pass on an ability", and just happened to have a brother who could steal and grant quirks who just happened to not know that he had a quirk and then just happened to grant him an exceptionally useful ability that just happened to mutate in a really useful manner to end up with someone who happened to be perfectly poised to take on his evil brother. It's too much in the way of convenience for me. It doesn't by any stretch ruin the manga or even close to it. I just think it's a misstep in the storytelling and comes off badly because it's so quick. If it was given a chapter or two of it's own (and it may be in future) these things would have more room to be expanded on, you'd get to know the characters involved and their stories, which would make it come off a lot better. It does make me sure that at least some of the previous One For All holders have had quirks, because "the ability to stockpile quirks" is kind of worthless without quirks to stockpile in the first place. At best All Might and Deku are just adding a normal humans base strength and speed etc. on top of what's already there, which isn't much on it's own. Maybe they add a low level multiplier to all stats, as it were instead, but more than likely there were a few people with quirks in the past that granted super strength, speed etc.
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Sep 20, 2015 13:49
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It's an ability that has no noticeable effect because it cannot be measured without the existence of another ability. But what's wrong with that? Expecting every ability to actually do something seems actually weirder to me. If it's a "mutation" or whatever, then you'd expect lots of people to have abilities like that ("the ability to disintegrate dinosaurs, which no longer exist"). His brother's ability to steal and grant other people's powers also wouldn't do anything if there weren't other people with quirks in the world. I dunno, your logic still seems totally nonsensical to me. For all we know, every single quirkless person in the world actually has an ability like that, and that's just what it means to be quirkless. As for the whole chain of coincidences, the only meaningful coincidence was the fact that they were brothers. If you took out that part, it actually seems kind of... inevitable? If this guy's just throwing out powers to people as they implied, the odds of something unexpected happening are more likely than not (and they didn't really imply that the powers combining was super-rare or anything). And since the existence of a "pass down to others" power doesn't seem all that weird compared to the other powers we've seen, I think it's pretty clever actually. Clarste fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 13:55
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If one for all does pass on Quirks the brother's original power would have a use, in that he could pass it on to someone who, say, breathes fire, who could then pass it to someone who can fly and this third person could then fly and breathe fire and so on. Albeit without All Might's insane power at any stage. I'm guessing that the stockpiling power just means that the quirks get stronger with every generation, regardless. All Might's implied to be stronger than his predecessor despite being quirk-less before, and I think All Might's power is way more than anyone else with a super strength Quirk or similar. In this theoretical musing, with the brother's original Quirk each All Might would be exactly as strong as whoever the strongest previous owner was.
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Sep 20, 2015 14:30
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tsob posted:It annoys me that someone had what is basically a vestigial quirk in the very first generation born with them. The ability to pass on a quirk when you have no quirk beyond that to pass on is completely useless on it's own and only has worth when mixed with something else. Which coincidentally happened for reasons the author didn't clarify beyond "his brother did it for some reason or other". It feels like Horikoshi wasn't actually able to come up with a good explanation for it, at least in time if he had to come up with it in the last week or three, and just kind of bodged it - possibly to shore it up later if he thinks of something better in the meantime. Quirks are genetic and can run in families, big brother got the quirk to take other quirks and then give them away as well, little brother unfortunately did not quite win the lottery and only got the quirk to pass on itself. Makes perfect goddamn sense given what we know.
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Sep 20, 2015 14:34
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Clarste posted:It's an ability that has no noticeable effect because it cannot be measured without the existence of another ability. But what's wrong with that? Expecting every ability to actually do something seems actually weirder to me. If it's a "mutation" or whatever, then you'd expect lots of people to have abilities like that ("the ability to disintegrate dinosaurs, which no longer exist"). I think that's a bad analogy because someone who can disintegrate dinosaurs might not have any dinosaurs around to disintegrate and thus never know he has a power to do so, but that power is still complete in and of itself regardless even if unusable. Someone who can pass on a quirk is, to me, more like someone who has eyes but doesn't have any optic nerves. Not a non-functional optic nerve mind, just none at all. To put it another way, the guy who can disintegrate dinosaurs is just missing an external element to make his powers complete/usable, where the guy who can pass on quirks is missing an internal biological element to make it complete. Sure, it's possible in reality. A story isn't reality though, and works on different rules. And to me, having someone whose only quirk is the ability to pass on a quirk and nothing more is just contrived in conjunction with the rest of the backstory. Clarste posted:His brother's ability to steal and grant other people's powers also wouldn't do anything if there weren't other people with quirks in the world. As above, his brothers is still complete and only missing an outside element to operate. Clarste posted:I dunno, your logic still seems totally nonsensical to me. For all we know, every single quirkless person in the world actually has an ability like that, and that's just what it means to be quirkless. It's entirely possible. It seems unlikely given the existence of a fused bone that differentiates non-quirk users from visible quirk users, but I suppose it's still possible. I don't really care though, because it doesn't make any difference at this moment to how I reacted to and continue to perceive this short piece of backstory. Clarste posted:I think it's pretty clever actually. Good for you I guess? I don't. Even if I dismiss my own misgivings about the contrived nature of the entire thing, the fact that the whole story of how the One For All brother got his powers boils down "his brother gave him a cool power for some reason or other" is pretty lovely writing in my opinion (and hopefully indicates it'll be expanded upon later and is only being summarized now as a first step) and one brother having another power that contrasts the other and being the key to taking down the evil brother is pretty cliche writing regardless. Naruto did the same thing only a short while ago in the same magazine and is far from the first even in shonen. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 15:12
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tsob posted:I think that's a bad analogy because someone who can disintegrate dinosaurs might not have any dinosaurs around to disintegrate and thus never know he has a power to do so, but that power is still complete in and of itself regardless even if unusable. Someone who can pass on a quirk is, to me, more like someone who has eyes but doesn't have any optic nerves. Not a non-functional optic nerve mind, just none at all. To put it another way, the guy who can disintegrate dinosaurs is just missing an external element to make his powers complete/usable, where the guy who can pass on quirks is missing an internal biological element to make it complete. Sure, it's possible in reality. A story isn't reality though, and works on different rules. And to me, having someone whose only quirk is the ability to pass on a quirk and nothing more is just contrived in conjunction with the rest of the backstory. But... there was a missing element that could make his power "complete." That missing element was someone else with the power to grant him a quirk. And that actually happened. It is literally exactly as narratively implausible as someone whose power is to steal quirks. Also, I think your eye analogy is terrible, because something that exists only to spread itself is pretty the definition of evolutionary success. Clarste fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 15:25
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Does an (superhero, no less) origin story have to have evolved in a natural, logical manner? Superheroes dont just happen, theyre made. It makes narrative and thematic sense that A4O made his own nemesis and eventually his own comeuppance. Especially if it was from disdainful condesension of his brother. "Poor poor you, born quirkless while i have all the power i want. Have a third rate lovely power that cannot even threaten me so you wont be completely useless, i guess" Quirk metaphysics can also get hosed. It really doesnt matter when quirks have been established to be completely random from the word 'go'. Would it matter if things werent convinient for the sake of plot? Would it be more satisfying, endless sperging aside, if they werent? Fiction would be a convoluted mess if it werent for plot afforded conviniences,and would also defeat the point of it being fiction. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 15:54
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tsob posted:It just seems really convenient that he just happened to have "the ability to pass on an ability", and just happened to have a brother who could steal and grant quirks who just happened to not know that he had a quirk and then just happened to grant him an exceptionally useful ability that just happened to mutate in a really useful manner to end up with someone who happened to be perfectly poised to take on his evil brother. That's how storytelling works. It's a convenient series of events.
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Sep 20, 2015 16:29
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There's a hint about the nature of these powers hidden in the word "quirks". They're not called like "logically behaving special abilities".
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Sep 20, 2015 16:51
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tsob posted:Vestigial is probably the wrong word to use, since vestigial implies it had a use in the past. It's not that I think they need to have notable value, negative or positive to exist so much as I think that "the ability to pass on an ability" has no reason to exist outside of this one really specific circumstance. Without some other kind of ability on top of it, no matter how small or inconsequential, "the ability to pass on an ability" isn't really an ability. It's a nothing. Not every power needs to be a strong combat power or even have positive worth (the ability to change the colors of flower petals stands out as one minor one from X-Men), but "the ability to pass on an ability" has nothing until there's another power added to it. *crawls out from under rock 5000 years after fiction is invented* alright, time to post on the internet
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Sep 20, 2015 16:54
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tsob posted:Vestigial is probably the wrong word to use, since vestigial implies it had a use in the past. It's not that I think they need to have notable value, negative or positive to exist so much as I think that "the ability to pass on an ability" has no reason to exist outside of this one really specific circumstance. Without some other kind of ability on top of it, no matter how small or inconsequential, "the ability to pass on an ability" isn't really an ability. It's a nothing. Not every power needs to be a strong combat power or even have positive worth (the ability to change the colors of flower petals stands out as one minor one from X-Men), but "the ability to pass on an ability" has nothing until there's another power added to it. It is literally a super power that's only effect is it can bypass the hereditary/bloodline requirement for passing on quirks. That is all the quirk does. This isn't alien logic where Superman doesn't actually know how to fly it's really physics where he's pushing against the earth blah blah blah. 
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Sep 20, 2015 17:29
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It'd be cool if he eventually clarified if giving up One For All was fatal to the user. I mean, it seems to be but All Might is running on fumes anyway... however all of the death flagging/foreshadowing indicates that passing on One For All takes your life force or whatever with it.
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Sep 20, 2015 17:46
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Fabricated posted:It'd be cool if he eventually clarified if giving up One For All was fatal to the user. All Might's predecessor was specifically killed by All for One, so unless the timing was pretty tight, I'm guessing not. I can foresee a situation where One for All cornered him while powerless to get maximum shounen burning spirit to motivate Toshinori back in the not-90s.
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Sep 20, 2015 17:53
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Two brothers are born. One of them grows up to be good, the other evil. The evil brother has the ability to "Take" while the good brother "Gives." Not exactly an intricate setup, but it makes good use of the series' thematic language. The good brother's ability is only arbitrary in the sense that all quirks are, really, but as an equal but opposite reaction to his brother's ability it feels justified.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:24
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Besides everything everyone else has said, given the random, ridiculous nature of quirks this clearly wasn't a "because the author couldn't think of a good/better justification for One For All" situation or whatever it's been called, because there isn't any need for any justification. He could have just had it be like any other quirk, and it'd have been perfectly valid because quirks are weird. This backstory is for thematic and narrative reasons, not a cheap justification for a thing that doesn't need to be justified at all.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:32
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O4A is very similar to A4O. A4O allows the user to take powers and give them to others at the user's discretion. O4A gives powers as well as taking from the previous possessor, but it's for only one person at a time.
Mraagvpeine fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 19:01
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The only issue with passing on One for All leading to death is that it makes All Might passing on the ability to Deku without informing him of this kind of morally reprehensible. Yeah, he probably would have taken the power anyway, but it would still be hosed up.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:08
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I would imagine One for All doesn't kill the user upon passing, but All Might's body is completely wrecked from his fight way back when to the point where giving up his power meant he was going to waste away regardless.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:14
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kidcoelacanth posted:I would imagine One for All doesn't kill the user upon passing, but All Might's body is completely wrecked from his fight way back when to the point where giving up his power meant he was going to waste away regardless. This. It might just slowly take the stockpiled power and make you normal again, but when the only reason All Might is alive is the Quirk, he ends up dying. I mean, we saw what his chest looked like.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:57
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even if the brother hadn't done anything, once the dude marries and has kids those kids have a good chance of getting a (potentially more useful) variation of his power, or a mix of the pass-on power and whatever the mothers power is. If the mother is the original owner of the stockpile power then you can even get One For All working the way it does currently. All the "coincidence" does is speed up the narrative one generation and establish themes for the manga to follow.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:16
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