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Gridlocked posted:MOBAs just bring out the worst in people. I don't think I've met anyone that hasn't gotten mad playing a MOBA either because they hate losing (one of my friends who tries hard, fails then gets mad), hate the abbuse (friend 2 who puts up with poo poo till he gets too mad at being called an idiot then starts telling the guy where to get off) or because they really punish you for your smallest failures (me, when I miss-time Smite and let someone else take a buff). The constantly increasing respawn timers, sheer speed at which you can die, and very easy to swing creep balance probably don't help. It makes you feel like you've messed up both quickly and badly, and only gets worse as a match goes on.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:27
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The Bee posted:The constantly increasing respawn timers, sheer speed at which you can die, and very easy to swing creep balance probably don't help. It makes you feel like you've messed up both quickly and badly, and only gets worse as a match goes on. This exactly. It punishes every little mistake but won't reward anything big. For example unless you practice the poo poo out of last hitting; missing 1 or 2 more creeps vs your lane oppoent will add up quickly and painfully. My aforementioned Smite experience will screw over the Jungler entirely because you rather desperately need either the damage or health regen buff that you get at the start. Even worse is if the oppoent sneaks in and steals it from you; or their team ganks you out quickly before your complete your first circuit. Nothing ruined my jungleing experience more then rocking up to my Red only to find their Top Laner has come down and is now helping their Jungler gank my face off while my top Laner takes the opportunity to over push; there we are hosed on two fronts he over pushed and is now not safe and I am either dead or missing a large chunk of Exp and early game power. People tell me "Oh when that happens you ping for help" and yeah it's true but then in pub games people will 9/10 ignore it or tell me it's my problem and why should they give up some last hits/farm/exp/waste time clicking on something other then their lane. All the bad things that can go wrong flow like this: You tell your team your jungle play is a bit slow, sorry I'm learning in a normal-> GG lovely jungle pls report. im afk it's only a normal. Jungler miss clicks smite, leasher gets buff -> GG lovely jungle pls report Opposing team's Jungler steals your red/blue -> GG lovely jungle pls report You fail an invade of your own -> GG lovely jungle pls report Opposing team's Jungler ganks faster then you -> GG lovely jungle pls report A gank gets away on <5% hp -> GG lovely jungle pls report A teammate gets away on <5% hp, not giving away a kill -> GG lovely jungle pls report, didn't help me now I've lost my lane You manage to not have anything bad happen, gank on time and YOU get the kill on the enemy -> GG lovely jungle stole kill from top lane/carry/mid lane, pls report You manage to not have anything bad happen, gank on time and THEY get the kill -> Nothing because you're doing your job right. And that's just the first 10-15 min of the game. Gridlocked has a new favorite as of 01:19 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 01:15
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Awesomenauts is cool but admittedly is different from most mobas.
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Sep 18, 2015 01:50
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So here's a thing I hate in games; sudden gameplay shifts for the last boss. Whether its a survival horror game turning into a third person shooter, a third person action game turning into a rhythm game or an RPG turning into a bullet hell shooter it's frustrating when a game develops your skills in certain ways then at the last minute slaps all the skillsets its given you out of your hand and goes "No, play this way now or you don't get to see the ending." Especially since it usually goes one of two ways, either it's ridiculously easy because they realize it would be difficult for players to adjust. Or it's annoyingly hard and not fun because they didn't, or maybe they just didn't care.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:32
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What game could that spoiler be talking about?
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Sep 18, 2015 02:48
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Nuebot posted:So here's a thing I hate in games; sudden gameplay shifts for the last boss. Whether its a survival horror game turning into a third person shooter, a third person action game turning into a rhythm game or an RPG turning into a bullet hell shooter it's frustrating when a game develops your skills in certain ways then at the last minute slaps all the skillsets its given you out of your hand and goes "No, play this way now or you don't get to see the ending." Especially since it usually goes one of two ways, either it's ridiculously easy because they realize it would be difficult for players to adjust. Or it's annoyingly hard and not fun because they didn't, or maybe they just didn't care. I'm a huge Platinum fanboy but I've never beaten Legend of Korra precisely because halfway through the game they lock your progress behind a tedious rail shooter boss battle where your giant polar bear dog has to slowly chip away at a bunch of giant robots with melee attacks and you have to do the whole thing all over again from the start if you take three hits.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:58
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The thing dragging down Undertale for me is that JRPG battle systems are so non-engaging that I fell asleep before finishing the demo
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Sep 18, 2015 03:50
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Sleeveless posted:I'm a huge Platinum fanboy but I've never beaten Legend of Korra precisely because halfway through the game they lock your progress behind a tedious rail shooter boss battle where your giant polar bear dog has to slowly chip away at a bunch of giant robots with melee attacks and you have to do the whole thing all over again from the start if you take three hits. I found the boss fights in W101 where you suddenly fought a punch-out style enemy annoying. Also the parts you're suddenly without your team and red/blue have to fight on their own.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:00
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Gridlocked posted:MOBAs just bring out the worst in people. I don't think I've met anyone that hasn't gotten mad playing a MOBA either because they hate losing (one of my friends who tries hard, fails then gets mad), hate the abbuse (friend 2 who puts up with poo poo till he gets too mad at being called an idiot then starts telling the guy where to get off) or because they really punish you for your smallest failures (me, when I miss-time Smite and let someone else take a buff). The only other games I've seen people get into such a frothing rage over other than MOBAs are the Left 4 Dead series. There's something about small team games where teamwork is absolutely essential does the complete opposite and ends up making them hate each other. Rocket League suffers this to a certain extent, some people get really loving upset if you miss a save or score in your own goal but I haven't seen anything as bad as in MOBA/L4D
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Sep 18, 2015 04:02
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Lord Lambeth posted:I found the boss fights in W101 where you suddenly fought a punch-out style enemy annoying. Also the parts you're suddenly without your team and red/blue have to fight on their own. I don't think it's a coincidence that Revengeance is widely considered Platinum's best title and its only lovely minigame is a 20-second rail shooter halfway through Sundowner's boss battle where you're dodging falling debris.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:17
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Away all Goats posted:The only other games I've seen people get into such a frothing rage over other than MOBAs are the Left 4 Dead series. There's something about small team games where teamwork is absolutely essential does the complete opposite and ends up making them hate each other. I noticed it Rocket League to actually. Not really in L4D but I played that entirely with friends while we joked about; we never got serious about it. I like to think of myself as a calm guy; I get mad at my own failings more then I get mad at others and this can be frustraiting if I'm on skype with mates and they are hearing me go "gently caress this why do I always fail at ganks/last hits/whatever". MOBAs really just bring out the worst. That is if I actually play them; which I don't do much because I am scared of running into people who will explode at me. It's like an endless cycle. Gridlocked has a new favorite as of 04:27 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:23
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Away all Goats posted:There's something about small team games where teamwork is absolutely essential does the complete opposite and ends up making them hate each other. Honestly this is why I'm generally wary of MMOs and multiplayer in general, and why I think Nintendo has the right idea. For all the people bitching about how Nintendo's multiplayer games tend to wind up just making friends murder eachother non-stop, that's how games usually work out anyway and it's more fun when the game actually takes it into consideration than when you're just trying to win a game of TF2 but everyone's too busy angrily typing in chat about class and weapon choices to just play the drat game, or your entire guild in WoW collapses because one guy got lucky and rolled higher than another guy for a drop. In my experience the people who don't already have groups of friends to play games with, are usually gigantic assholes and there's a reason why none of their friends want to play with them. So you just get groups of assholes trying to out rear end in a top hat eachother forming into a gigantic communal rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:26
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PYF thing dragging this game down: forming into a gigantic communal rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:00
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Lord Chumley posted:PYF thing dragging this game down: forming into a gigantic communal rear end in a top hat. 
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Sep 18, 2015 05:11
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Lord Chumley posted:PYF thing dragging this game down: forming into a gigantic communal rear end in a top hat. We shall call this new organism the "meganus," or perhaps the "cloacommune," or the "agorectum."
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Sep 18, 2015 05:12
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I finally beat Massive Chalice and good lord is that a game composed almost entirely of things dragging it down. It's a shame because even with the slow shallow XCOM-knockoff battles popping up every five minutes the metagame of being an immortal godking/eugenecist is juuust compelling enough to make you wish they had applied it to a better game, and even if it turns every battle into a protracted slog the idea of enemies turning every battle into a battle of attrition with ability to reduce your EXP or age your heroes and the fact that you have to give up more and more territory as the game goes on is a good one even if the execution is just mind-numbingly frustrating. A general rule of thumb for any turn-based strategy game is that you need to have an option to speed up animations if not skip them entirely, because I guarantee you that when a game takes like a dozen hours to play to completion and it's going to take a few aborted attempts to beat it nobody wants to watch the animation of their soldiers scurrying around the map after a thousand times and its going to make your interest die that much quicker. Also there's nothing wrong with stylized graphics but when your stylized graphics are so messy and plain that it looks like you're waiting for the actual textures to load you hosed up somewhere along the line.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:33
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Sleeveless posted:A general rule of thumb for any turn-based strategy game is that you need to have an option to speed up animations if not skip them entirely, because I guarantee you that when a game takes like a dozen hours to play to completion and it's going to take a few aborted attempts to beat it nobody wants to watch the animation of their soldiers scurrying around the map after a thousand times and its going to make your interest die that much quicker. This is my big complaint with Darkest Dungeon. Everything takes too long, especially if you're trying to make a lot of progress and you have limited real-life time. There can be four or more 1.5 sec popups per attack, plus stress popup, flavor chatter, and hit effects ("bleed! immune! blight!") and more sometimes. I've got places to be just die already ugh. Oh great, I missed, now I gotta wait for the whole enemy line to attack 
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Sep 18, 2015 05:43
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Sleeveless posted:I don't think it's a coincidence that Revengeance is widely considered Platinum's best title and its only lovely minigame is a 20-second rail shooter halfway through Sundowner's boss battle where you're dodging falling debris. Bayonetta 2 was okay with the minigames?
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Sep 19, 2015 14:33
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i don't remember any minigames in The Best Platinum Game Bar None, Vanquish, except that the end credits is a space-shooter
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Sep 19, 2015 16:47
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Away all Goats posted:The only other games I've seen people get into such a frothing rage over other than MOBAs are the Left 4 Dead series. There's something about small team games where teamwork is absolutely essential does the complete opposite and ends up making them hate each other. People turn into complete shitheads in L4D, I don't get it. A friend invited me to a game he was in with 2 other people. I hadn't played much L4D, so I generally just kinda followed the crowd and tried to be helpful. Apparently everything I did was wrong according to this one person, and he kept stewing about it. I was not playing properly and doing things according to The Best Way. I noticed in chat that he was getting madder, but since things weren't explained to me, I kept doing whatever. I figured he was a shithead, so I decided to gently caress up hardcore and really piss him off. He stopped typing in game and was just bitching to everyone on voice chat about how I wasn't playing the right way. Turns out, he has a certain way to play L4D levels, no deviation. Mission is about over, he gets hit by a tank and is downed. I stop and look at him, then run to the escape helicopter. According to my friend, he started yelling about how terrible a person I was. I've never played a L4D game after that, as inadvertently causing a manchild to lose his poo poo means I've won the game.
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Sep 19, 2015 17:05
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I met a kid in college who played L4D. He and his 2 buds invited me in and I didn't IMMEDIATELY start moving becasue I was taking a drink or something, so they killed me. Never talked to that guy again, even though we had the rest of the semester. L4D literally ended a friendship lol.
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Sep 19, 2015 17:20
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L4D and L4D2 were just kind of things you play through once and get bored by. I can't even imagine playing them over and over to the point where people not knowing what's up in a randomized rear end game annoy you. I don't think I ever survived the last tank punching you as you try to get on the helicopter/boat/bus mission and nobody gave me grief about it. I guess I got in and out before the regulars settled in.
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Sep 19, 2015 17:24
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I quit L4D after getting thrown into a game with a girl playing who goofed off the entire time. She'd intentionally alert special zombies, shoot other players, and laughed and talked poo poo over the mic to everyone the whole time. Us other players took it in stride and laughed along with her and started goofing off ourselves, just having a good time. Finally she threw a molotov at me and laughed about it, so I shot her in the head. The atmosphere was one of us all just goofing off so I didn't think anything of this friendly retaliation, but she took it personally for some reason I will never understand and flipped her poo poo. She started cussing me out and then as we kept going she started shotgunning me every time we spawned. So I quit the session and she decided to spam my steam profile with nasty comments for the rest of the night. The whole experience was so surreal and annoying that it soured the whole game for me and I just never felt like playing again.
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Sep 19, 2015 18:21
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Esroc posted:I quit L4D after getting thrown into a game with a girl playing who goofed off the entire time. She'd intentionally alert special zombies, shoot other players, and laughed and talked poo poo over the mic to everyone the whole time. Us other players took it in stride and laughed along with her and started goofing off ourselves, just having a good time. Finally she threw a molotov at me and laughed about it, so I shot her in the head. The atmosphere was one of us all just goofing off so I didn't think anything of this friendly retaliation, but she took it personally for some reason I will never understand and flipped her poo poo. She started cussing me out and then as we kept going she started shotgunning me every time we spawned. So I quit the session and she decided to spam my steam profile with nasty comments for the rest of the night. So....did you get any or..? I know its not the greifing thing, but the fact that some people are so EASILY greifed brings some games down. MOBAs are infamous for this, but it works in almost any setting. OH this guy isn't playing the way I want, *game implodes due to their efforts*. Ugh. Only now are they really figuring out ways to get around this, but drat does it suck when a game is built like that.
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Sep 19, 2015 18:25
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If you played PvE Left 4 Dead with randos online you were doing it wrong. The only thing worth doing online is versus mode because it isn't mindlessly repeating the same strat over and over on each level.
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Sep 19, 2015 19:02
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A thing that's kind of annoying in Mad Max is that they didn't design a feature around modern consoles. An upgrade you can build in game lets you continue to receive scrap (the ingame currency) even when you're not playing. Except it doesn't work if you use the PS4's suspend/resume feature. I believe the Xbone has a similar function and I doubt it works there either.
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Sep 19, 2015 19:41
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muscles like this? posted:A thing that's kind of annoying in Mad Max is that they didn't design a feature around modern consoles. An upgrade you can build in game lets you continue to receive scrap (the ingame currency) even when you're not playing. Except it doesn't work if you use the PS4's suspend/resume feature. I believe the Xbone has a similar function and I doubt it works there either. It does though? Or are you going into sleep mode with the game still running? It's pretty explicit that the project only works when you have an online connection and the game is turned off.
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Sep 19, 2015 21:27
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I'm coming up on a part in MGSV where there seem to be a lot of missions clustered together that have hidden time limits. One has you search for allies before the bad guys can find them, and if you take too long they find and shoot them, another has you escorting some prisoners through hostile terrain and halfway through the guards back at base realize the prisoners are missing, so you've got alert hostiles behind and ahead of you now. Never liked that sort of thing in stealth games. I usually take my sweet time and approach things almost like a puzzle game. Didn't like the more action-oriented direction of MGS4 either, so I hope it doesn't go too far down that road. (I take part of it back if it turns out you can prevent enemies from realizing the prisoners are gone, but I have a feeling it's scripted.)
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Sep 19, 2015 21:28
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In the mission where you have to save the intel guys, if you rush to the guy who escaped you can usually get him out of harms way quickly. Then, to remove the time-limit on the 2nd guy, wait for the jeep and truck coming from the North-west down to road into Kibiza(?) and take them out. Voila, no more time limit.
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Sep 19, 2015 21:45
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To make sure guards don't realize prisoners are missing just kill everyone within a mile or two radius. No kill stealth runs are for scrubs. My Big Boss laughs at the notion of tactical espionage.
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Sep 19, 2015 21:54
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If everyone is extracted, then no one is left to call an alarm. Check and mate.
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Sep 19, 2015 22:06
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kazil posted:If everyone is extracted, then no one is left to call an alarm. Check and mate. Qft. Extract everyone ever.
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Sep 19, 2015 22:08
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Left 4 Dead versus would be a lot more chill if the total dogshit scoring system just didn't exist and all it did was say if the survivors survived or not.
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Sep 19, 2015 22:26
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Or the kick voting system didn't exist. My 2nd or so versus experience went as follows: I spawned as a charger. I got lucky and managed to charge a survivor right out the window near the start for a fast kill. A vote has been started to kick(my steam name) Before I can say anything I got kicked. Never bothered with versus again.
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Sep 20, 2015 00:36
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When L4D came out I remember you could grief games just by picking the hunting rifle. People were so against it they would vote kick the second someone picked it up. Another thing pubbies on steam would do is kick players who didn't have a profile picture because "that means they pirated the game."
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Sep 20, 2015 02:31
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L4D is well balanced, but lacking in variety and replayability. L4D2 has more of those things, but has some levels and mechanics that are just badly designed, which is pretty unusual for Valve.
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Sep 20, 2015 02:48
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Sleeveless posted:I don't think it's a coincidence that Revengeance is widely considered Platinum's best title and its only lovely minigame is a 20-second rail shooter halfway through Sundowner's boss battle where you're dodging falling debris. I hated that part in Detroit where Sam messes with your head and all you can do is stagger to the next checkpoint. If you avoid the soldiers, you miss out on a ranked fight but you can't even fight properly. It's the only black mark on the game for me. I'm kinda disappointed that soldiers never really interact with local wildlife in MGSV. The most I'll see is them shooing goats off the road. I was hoping for a bear to wander into the camp and cause a ruckus while I snuck through and did my work.
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Sep 20, 2015 13:13
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StandardVC10 posted:L4D is well balanced, but lacking in variety and replayability. L4D2 has more of those things, but has some levels and mechanics that are just badly designed, which is pretty unusual for Valve. As a game build around teamwork and co-operation, L4D 1 and 2 are really, really prone to trolls screwing everyone over, all is takes is just to suicide yourself or kill a teammate since friendly fire is a thing and you may as well call it quits, especially on higher difficulties. Either play it with friends or use the bots, even though the bot AI is well known to taking its time in saving you.
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Sep 20, 2015 13:44
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Action Tortoise posted:I hated that part in Detroit where Sam messes with your head and all you can do is stagger to the next checkpoint. If you avoid the soldiers, you miss out on a ranked fight but you can't even fight properly. It's the only black mark on the game for me. There's an item called "bait" or somesuch that you can develop which draws animals when placed somewhere. I've never tried it, but I bet that can be used to facilitate this with a little effort. Find a bear, throw bait to lead it to an outpost, sit back and watch. I might try it later and see if it works.
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Sep 20, 2015 14:54
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Judge Tesla posted:As a game build around teamwork and co-operation, L4D 1 and 2 are really, really prone to trolls screwing everyone over, all is takes is just to suicide yourself or kill a teammate since friendly fire is a thing and you may as well call it quits, especially on higher difficulties. The ai was way op though. It was omniscient and could see in the dark. Where a player wouldn't be able to see you, the ai would start plinking you away from a huge distance completely ruining the game. And they never missed so if you were the zombies they'd just quickly pick you off/shove you off immediately. If it was 3 humans and an ai, you would lose as infected since the ai was the perfect overwatch.
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Sep 20, 2015 15:19
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