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Maxwell Lord posted:I don't see why not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFFi9PWKDjg This is not the bit with GO SON GO! GO SON GO! so you've chosen poorly
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Sep 20, 2015 18:08
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RunAndGun posted:I wonder if that was deliberate - since they know that this will be shown in 2 parts over a week's time (plus the 9 month drought), perhaps they overstuffed this episode to have fans something to chew over these next 7 days. They've had two parters that have been less of a mess before this, you know. Moffat even wrote some of them!
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Sep 20, 2015 18:09
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jng2058 posted:It failed the Immediate Re-Watch Test. I didn't feel particularly compelled to watch it again the way I had "The Eleventh Hour" or even "The Impossible Astronaut". It feels less than the sum of its parts. The are individual scenes and performances I quite enjoyed, but taken as a whole it seemed not to tell much of a coherent story. It's one of those halves of a two-parter that fails to tell a story by itself. Compare to Dark Water: it's all leading up to Missy revealing who she is and letting the Cybermen loose on the streets, but there's self-contained pieces to it. The mystery of 3W sustains through the episode, we see Clara and Danny both coping with Danny's death. And while it all flows into the next episode, there's things going on in it that carry it without Death in Heaven. Magician's Apprentice isn't that. It's the first half of a two-parter, and it feels like it. None of the things it brings up are really resolved in the episode itself, it's all leading into the next episode. That kind of means that, by itself, we have to latch onto those individual elements because we don't have the context to appreciate the episode on its whole. It might be worth a rewatch heading immediately into next week's episode, and I really hope they hold together really well as a package. But by itself, Magician's Apprentice is half a story and feels like it.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:09
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MrL_JaKiri posted:They've had two parters that have been less of a mess before this, you know. Moffat even wrote some of them! True, but you have to add in the 9 month drought, too. This wasn't just a normal 2 parter in the middle of a season.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:14
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ewe2 posted:I just fell about laughing at the entrance on the tank with the guitar hero act. Like that isn't every actor's dream And the over-the-top, hyper-complicated, extravagant way Missy came back: "OK, cutting to the chase: not dead, back, big surprise, nevermind..." One of the best bad-guy(girl?)-returns ever.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:15
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I'm probably wildy over-estimating Moffat but he seems to be going for as much visual metaphor for internal conflict as he possibly can and it is indeed a mess, but hey we get Missy back.
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Cleretic posted:None of the things it brings up are really resolved in the episode itself, it's all leading into the next episode. Disagree entirely. Almost all of the things that are brought up are resolved in the episode, to the extent that someone could watch the cold opening and the last few minutes and, with all likelihood, not miss anything that will affect part 2. The stuff about the planes? Resolved. UNIT? Resolved. The Doctor being "missing"? Resolved. What is there apart from "The Doctor is on Skaro with Davros, who he left in a minefield as a child, and his companion, the Master, and the TARDIS have all been daleked"?
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Sep 20, 2015 18:16
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seizure later posted:I liked Missy above everything else in the episode. I know it's a fault of the writing, but Jenna Coleman just doesn't interest me at all and the fact that she went from seeing Missy kill several UNIT agents to being friends with her almost immediately after was so weird, as if she was like "oh well if the Doctor still likes you then it doesn't matter that you're a murderer" Or, it could be her way of dealing with a very intelligent, very unpredictable, very irrational enemy. "OK, lets be friends, just don't kill anymore until I figure out what's going on/how to deal with you..."
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Sep 20, 2015 18:18
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I forgot to complain about how the stilted way that Clara described the planes being frozen was indeed the twitter hashtag and the phrase that the news reports used.RunAndGun posted:True, but you have to add in the 9 month drought, too. This wasn't just a normal 2 parter in the middle of a season. Compare to The Impossible Astronaut then. I'm not a fan of TIA, but that's largely because DotM is such a terrible resolution.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:20
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RunAndGun posted:And the over-the-top, hyper-complicated, extravagant way Missy came back: "OK, cutting to the chase: not dead, back, big surprise, nevermind..." What I like even better about that is that they don't even bother with an explanation for Davros. Last we saw him he was in a time-displaced section of space sitting on top of a giant bomb screaming that he'd rather die than be saved by the Doctor, then he's just back and nobody even bothers to question it because of course Davros is still alive, that's his thing.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:24
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Andrew_1985 posted:Missy is amazing and I wanted more of her. Yes. I like this new dymanic. They're moving/moved away from the simple white-hat Doctor black-hat Master Light Side of the Force / Dark Side of the Force relationship. Missy's point of view that the Doctor keeps trying to kill her too. Stuff like that. (And at the same time, reaffirming that they're not interchangeable, "No, I've not turned... guud!") Even thought this all might turn out to be window dressing, I appreciate the fact they're trying to expand/complicated the Doctor/Master relationship.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:26
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Burkion posted:Oh no. No. Not at all. On the other hand, long-term fans gotta eat to. Pinwiz11 posted:The first episode of Who that I ever saw was part of Genesis of the Daleks in 1982. The Doctor v Davros story/argument has been the bedrock of my fandom from the beginning. Perfect example.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:30
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RunAndGun posted:Yes. I like this new dymanic. They're moving/moved away from the simple white-hat Doctor black-hat Master Light Side of the Force / Dark Side of the Force relationship. Missy's point of view that the Doctor keeps trying to kill her too. Stuff like that. (And at the same time, reaffirming that they're not interchangeable, "No, I've not turned... guud!") This has always been the Doctor/Master relationship.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:31
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RunAndGun posted:On the other hand, long-term fans gotta eat to. Oh, if it's for the long term fans and not us newbies that's ok then
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Sep 20, 2015 18:33
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Just watched the episode, hated all the Missy parts. No surprise there. I also hated the writers trying to be hip and talking about Twitter!
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Sep 20, 2015 18:34
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Cliff Racer posted:Just watched the episode, hated all the Missy parts. No surprise there. That was like one line! And it actually made sense in context- "See if anyone's talking about this thing out the window!"
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Sep 20, 2015 18:35
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But how would she know what hashtag to look up? Uggh, why can't she just say get on the internet like a normal person?
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Sep 20, 2015 18:39
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I'm sure this is all part of some master plan to convince the Doctor that he's secretly evil so that Missy can be best buds with him, just like she was trying to do in Death in Heaven. Missy's gonna pop out from behind a rock next episode, say "Not dead, your TARDIS and Clara were fine all along, big surprise, see how easy it was to convince you to murder a child lol", roll opening credits. And then the Daleks immediately betray her.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:42
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Well Manicured Man posted:And then the Daleks immediately betray her. No no no, the Doctor says to the Master,"You know the Daleks will just betray you when they get what they want, right?" and the Master will go,"  " and then agree to team up to gently caress up those Dalek assholes who were going to betray her before she could betray them.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:46
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If we don't get a Missy/Davros scene next episode I am going to be really grumpy.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:55
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I forgot to complain about how the stilted way that Clara described the planes being frozen was indeed the twitter hashtag and the phrase that the news reports used. Yes, point. TIA was less chaotic than this episode was. Still, I like chaos sometimes. Sometimes you get to relax in a big easy chair, sometimes you're in a roller coaster.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:56
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EricFate posted:Doctor shoots Davros as child, Davros as adult reveals that child was a fake, and that this was all a setup to prove to the Doctor that he is also a monster. I'm guessing that the Doctor won't shoot Davros because the Doctor already save Davros, as evidenced by the fact that the last time we saw kiddie Davros he was stuck in a handmine field which was 100% going to kill him but he nevertheless survives and goes on to create the Daleks. Clearly the Doctor has already gone back and saved him, possibly slightly late so that Davros was somehow burnt and maimed and ends up crippled in a wheelchair. The Doctor feels shame because he wasn't strong enough to just walk away and let nature take its course. Davros blames the Doctor for not saving him fast enough and causing him to get crippled, that's how the Doctor 'creates' Davros. I'm guessing that the Doctor is going back to shoot himself to stop Davros from being saved.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:59
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RunAndGun posted:Yes. I like this new dymanic. They're moving/moved away from the simple white-hat Doctor black-hat Master Light Side of the Force / Dark Side of the Force relationship. Missy's point of view that the Doctor keeps trying to kill her too. Stuff like that. (And at the same time, reaffirming that they're not interchangeable, "No, I've not turned... guud!") You have never seen the Doctor and Master interact at any point before have you? Like, ever. Except the dumb TV movie I guess. But having gone through almost every single Third Doctor and Master interaction, this is really just the cliff notes of how janky the two are together. I think we've even had the Master having to play nice with the Companions before. The only difference is, really, that the Master didn't feel the need to constantly pepper his speech with the fact that he's a man back in the day. And a lack of really, really bad disguises.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:00
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Disagree entirely. Almost all of the things that are brought up are resolved in the episode, to the extent that someone could watch the cold opening and the last few minutes and, with all likelihood, not miss anything that will affect part 2. Things that are still to resolved (all of which are reasonably big) How did Missy come back? Why was the doctor hiding? Why does he think it is his last day? What is in his will? There is no way that this episode stands up on its own - hopefully part 2 will bring it all together.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:01
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Mr Beens posted:Things that are still to resolved (all of which are reasonably big) I hope the reveal of how the Master came back after The Planet of Fire, or the Meddling Monk came back after The Time Meddler, are in the next episode as well  RunAndGun posted:Yes, point. TIA was less chaotic than this episode was. Still, I like chaos sometimes. Sometimes you get to relax in a big easy chair, sometimes you're in a roller coaster. Or, in this case, being sat in the stocks and being pelted from unexpected directions
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Sep 20, 2015 19:25
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I think the more important question is what was that cool little guitar riff the Doctor was playing when he spotted Clara? I know it was some classic rock thing but I can't remember what its from for the life of me.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:26
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After he saw her he played Pretty Woman
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Sep 20, 2015 19:32
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Thunderfinger posted:I think the more important question is what was that cool little guitar riff the Doctor was playing when he spotted Clara? I know it was some classic rock thing but I can't remember what its from for the life of me. It was Pretty Woman. E; curses, beaten
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Sep 20, 2015 19:32
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Thunderfinger posted:I think the more important question is what was that cool little guitar riff the Doctor was playing when he spotted Clara? I know it was some classic rock thing but I can't remember what its from for the life of me. Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison, I think? Also, he played Hey Mickey by Toni Basil for Missy. edit: beaten like crazy. I'm going to just put it out there and say that the Doctor playing his electric guitar was my favorite segment in that last episode. I know a lot of you cringed for felt that it was weak, but I really really dug it. 12 is the coolest.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:33
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I really enjoyed that but I was extremely drunk when I watched it on iPlayer in the wee small hours last night, so it is possible it was actually bad.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:41
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Burkion posted:You have never seen the Doctor and Master interact at any point before have you? I think that most of the previous interactions, when the Master has to cooperate/not obliterate the Doctor was more Plot Reasons. Edit: And one-liners, like when Three mentioned that he and the Master "went to school together". I just feel its more blatant with these Missy episodes that their relationship is overtly displayed as more complicated than bad/good guy. And the first Missy episode, it was part of the motivation: the entire thing with the Cybermen wasn't conquest/power/riches - it was a gift, so she could "have her friend back". RunAndGun fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 19:49
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The episode is obsessed with continuity. Missy is back from the dead. Davros is put in an inescapable situation so he can be double back from the dead. The Daleks are back from the dead, in every variety. So's Skaro, and Karn, and the Shadow Proclamation, and an Ood. The Doctor is dying again. Davros is dying again. Missy dies. Clara dies. The TARDIS dies. The Doctor ends the episode in an inescapable situation. He comes back from the dead before the credits even roll. How far does the idea that the audience don't care about why the Master comes back go? Everything else in the episode is dressing for this examination. Moffat thinks he has the idea of 'Doctor Who' down so well that he can build his episodes around self-contained bricks of Doctor Who. High concept, villain, twist. Planes have stopped, it's Missy, she's the good guy. Rocknroll in the middle ages, there's a snake guy, the Doctor surrenders. Etc.
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Sep 20, 2015 20:43
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all things aside and having the usual mess of too many ideas, this was a fun ride that probably won't hold up to a second viewing but I have just one question. Just one. Why does davros have a guy made of snakes
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Sep 20, 2015 20:49
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There were seeds of good ideas in this episode. I like where Moffat was going with the general concept. But...this just screamed "film this first draft I scribbled on this notebook oh god we're running out of time". Like, this looked rushed as gently caress, even in the set design. Somehow the Daleks looked even cheaper than usual. Did the budget get gutted again? E: I busted out laughing when that random Dalek popped up out of nowhere with "correct!" after Missy and Clara realized where they were. HD DAD fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 20:57
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To reinforce just how obvious a trap he's setting, Davros sends the shiftiest looking being in the entire universe to find the Doctor. Alternatively: because when the Daleks try to exterminate him they can only hit individual snakes and the bulk of him can slither away.
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Sep 20, 2015 20:58
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I don't know why the daleks don't just remote-controlled drone their poo poo. They keep getting blown up, so you figure the ultimate intelligence in the universe next to the timelords or whatever could not put their whole existence in a big target that has gotten blown up a bunch of times in the past. I suppose someone could just find out where they're piloting from and blow that up, but that's why you get like 7 proxies, man.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:04
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Megaspel posted:I don't know why the daleks don't just remote-controlled drone their poo poo. They keep getting blown up, so you figure the ultimate intelligence in the universe next to the timelords or whatever could not put their whole existence in a big target that has gotten blown up a bunch of times in the past. I suppose someone could just find out where they're piloting from and blow that up, but that's why you get like 7 proxies, man. Because the Daleks hate everyone so much that they want to be RIGHT THERE when they exterminate you. They've clearly got the tech to blow planets up if they want, but they usually don't. Usually they all fly down to kill everyone on the planet one-to-one. Extermination as personal service. Just look at "Into the Dalek". When they found the human base, did they blow it up from their ship? Nah, they boarded, losing a few Daleks along the way, just so they could get in close and SEE all those humans die. It's the Dalek way. Also they don't give a poo poo about self-preservation. They care about the preservation of the Dalek race as a species, but individual Daleks are expendable. So why not send 'em to go exterminate? jng2058 fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 21:08
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I have long ago reconciled that new Doctor Who is a big dumb spectacle. Occasionally it rises above that, and when it does it is great, but I am fine with the big dumb spectacle I have come to expect. Having been on a long slow watch of the original show, I have decided that a big dumb spectacle is preferable to just dumb, as sometimes the old show could be. Not to say I don't like the old show, I do, I really like it in fact, but when it is bad it is bad in a manner that makes it hard to pay attention. I like the new Master a lot. She is the perfect conciliation of the new show's manic master and the old show's weirdly friendly arch villain Master, attempting to cut a deal with the Daleks nearly gave me flashbacks. Peter Capaldi is great. I have just finished watching Attack of the Cybermen, and I am beginning to see the point of the censors who were so opposed to the violence in the show at this time, The Doctor fucks up some Cybermen and he isn't the only one. Ever since the five Doctors, Cybermen seem to exist only to be ripped to shreds graphically.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:11
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jng2058 posted:Because the Daleks hate everyone so much that they want to be RIGHT THERE when they exterminate you. They've clearly got the tech to blow planets up if they want, but they usually don't. Usually they all fly down to kill everyone on the planet one-to-one. Extermination as personal service. I'd say a proxy-body is more Master's style then, but I think she'd be the same, probably enjoys the thrill of risk. But yeah, what you all said actually makes 100 sense. I'm just obsessed with mutable/configurable proxy robot bodies lately.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:17
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Seeing the classic Mk1 Daleks next to the modern bronze ones convinces me even further that the modern daleks would look so much better in blue and silver livery.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:44
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Amongst the many things I love about that episode, the best is the look of absolute horror on Missy's face when she realizes she's on Skaro. Like, up until that point it's been all fun and games insanity let's kill all the lesser lifeforms, and then it's, oh poo poo, I remember this, it's the thing I ran all the way to the end of the universe from.Acne Rain posted:all things aside and having the usual mess of too many ideas, this was a fun ride that probably won't hold up to a second viewing but I have just one question. Just one. Why wouldn't he?  e: lil' davros for newest companion make that poo poo happen Moffet
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Sep 20, 2015 22:10
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