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Ekusukariba posted:Cause Big Boss is apparently a big coward or something I guess? Also given the ending was MG1 Outer Heaven Venom's take on it? with Zanzibar land being Big Boss's version of Outer Heaven? From my understanding, Big Boss built Outer Heaven and at some point gives command over it to Venom Snake so he can work for FOXHOUND. Then after Operation Intrude he rebuilds it as Zanzibar Land with the survivors of Operation Intrude. Also, can someone summarize Ocelot in a "Revolver Ocelot for Dummies" format? I've played all the games and read his wiki page like three times and I still can't make heads or tails of his motivations or allegiances. I feel like some important information just isn't clicking in my mind, somehow.
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Sep 21, 2015 00:45
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Yeah as far as I can tell they were angling for Outer Heaven to be retconned as a ginned up Mother Base. Zanzibar Land was a full on micronation established on the ruins at Tselinoyarsk from MGS3. I like that between them the Big Bosses establish four separate PMCs / soldier nations and they end disastrously each time. They're like the Donald Trump of soldiering. Ocelot loves Big Boss and that's all you need to know really. In MGS1 he's working for Liquid but is actually reporting to Solidus but in reality is an agent of the Patriots but ultimately is working with EVA to destroy the Patriots. Party Boat fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 00:46
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Esroc posted:Also, can someone summarize Ocelot in a "Revolver Ocelot for Dummies" format? I've played all the games and read his wiki page like three times and I still can't make heads or tails of his motivations or allegiances. I feel like some important information just isn't clicking in my mind, somehow.
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Sep 21, 2015 00:51
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Esroc posted:From my understanding, Big Boss built Outer Heaven and at some point gives command over it to Venom Snake so he can work for FOXHOUND. Then after Operation Intrude he rebuilds it as Zanzibar Land with the survivors of Operation Intrude. Ocelot's a triple agent loyal to the CIA at the very start of his career, but once he meets Big Boss his man-crush on everyone's favorite growly eyepatch man outstrips all his prior allegiances. Over the course of the next several decades, he quintuple-crosses every single major organization on the planet using increasingly esoteric means in order to accomplish what he thinks is Big Boss's ultimate vision, a destabilized world of perpetual warfare, without borders or nations, where soldiers can engage in battle without being sold out by their leaders. He doesn't give a dusty gently caress about all the chaos and death this would cause as a result, of course. The only reason he's not the villain of the whole series is because the key part of his plan is the destruction of the Patriots, which are even worse and more entrenched than he is. In MGS4, Solid Snake and his team are able to secretly piggyback off Ocelot's plans and wind up destroying the Patriots without causing global anarchy.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:01
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Oxxidation posted:The only reason he's not the villain of the whole series is because the key part of his plan is the destruction of the Patriots, which are even worse and more entrenched than he is. In MGS4, Solid Snake and his team are able to secretly piggyback off Ocelot's plans and wind up destroying the Patriots without causing global anarchy. And the only reason that worked is because some random kid they picked up along the way had enough foresight to lobotomize everything except the systems that kept all the worlds trains running on time.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:07
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:And the only reason that worked is because some random kid they picked up along the way had enough foresight to lobotomize everything except the systems that kept all the worlds trains running on time.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:09
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Okay, I think what tripped me up was not understanding that he was misinterpreting Big Boss' ideology. Which I guess plays into Zero misinterpreting The Boss' and Big Boss also doing so until he finally gets it at the end of MGS4.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:10
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And also because some random guy the Patriots tried to memetically make into Solid Snake except not ended up a cyborg ninja. Between Raiden and Sunny, the entire S3 Project just ended up loving things up for the Patriots because those two were integral to their own destruction.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:11
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DaveKap posted:Yeah, Naomi was gonna give this job to Hal then realized that Sunny was a better hacker. Womp womp, Hal. The Patriots were programmed to be nice to Otacon. Of course he wasn't the best man for the job
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Sep 21, 2015 01:11
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Esroc posted:Okay, I think what tripped me up was not understanding that he was misinterpreting Big Boss' ideology. Which I guess plays into Zero misinterpreting The Boss' and Big Boss also doing so until he finally gets it at the end of MGS4. When you get right down to it, MGS is just one big game of telephone. A game of telephone played with giant robots/nanomachines/clones and overseen by a quadruple-reverse-agent Russian cowboy with a torture fetish and an unhealthy homoerotic fixation on someone who spends about 50% of his life in a coma.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:19
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Esroc posted:I still don't quite understand why Big Boss felt the need to go into hiding and let Venom Snake take over. If Venom Snake could build Boss' legend, build his own PMC that could rival Outer Heaven, and generally clean house all on his own, why not just do it yourself? The idea of staying off the Patriots radar and building Outer Heaven just doesn't seem to me to be good reasons for the whole switcheroo. Literally everything Venom Snake accomplishes Big Boss could've accomplished himself and still built his nation in the process. I think the main answer to this is going to be that Kojima wanted the main character in MGS5 to be a player surrogate and he built the other story elements around that fact. To me, the entire game basically feels like a big "thank you" letter to the fans of the series that didn't quite get finished before someone put it in the mail. To that end, Kojima made the player the protagonist and used Big Boss as his own mouthpiece. The effects of having two Big Bosses in the story, by comparison, were mostly incidental to this.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:19
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So I went back to an old mission to update this guy that I thought I needed in order to do bionics upgrades. Except when he got back to base, he didn't have those stats at all. Do I have to kick him off base in order for the repeat mission stats to take effect?
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Sep 21, 2015 01:22
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I've had two copies of that guy before, are you sure you were looking at the right one?
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Sep 21, 2015 01:26
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I love how the reason Otacon loves mecha anime is because he was inside one when he was a baby.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:27
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DaveKap posted:So I went back to an old mission to update this guy that I thought I needed in order to do bionics upgrades. If you've done that mission a few times for S-ranks you will be startled to see how many copies of that guy you have lounging around with different names.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:40
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Only the first version of unique prisoners will have fixed stats and name. All others will be copies with the same skill but different names and randomized stats just like any enemy. You're probably looking at the original guy you kidnapped. He and Malak are both really pretty bad, but it may be worth firing the Spetsnaz commander from Episode 3 and redoing the mission later because his stats are actually higher than the early-game caps will allow him to achieve the first time you replay the mission. The female Gunman prisoner in 23 is randomized in terms of appearance, and versions other than the fixed one ("Pouncing Harrier") may actually have better stats than the original. If you wanted a lot of Combat-capable female recruits, farming that mission for them works well because they'll all have Gunman and decent Combat stats plus varied appearances and voices. Sadly, they can't get better than S Combat because there's a hard cap in place. Guys with fixed appearances can be farmed for clones if you really want a bunch of Viscounts or whatever.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:47
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DaveKap posted:Haha believe me I wasn't expecting one. There are a lot of contradictions in the game that you have to just leap of faith away from. Why is it that Big Boss's favorite medic has the same voice at him? If they hypnotically suggested medic into believing he was Big Boss, why would they let the doctor show him his real face before showing him his Big Boss face and ALSO show him the pictures of Big Boss chilling out at MSF, thus ruining the hypnotizing? If Skull Face wants to kill off the English language, why does he use it as his primary means of communication? What's up with Chico's hole in the chest when the vocal chord parasite research hadn't started until after GZ? Why did Venom never get infected by anything when he was constantly around that poo poo? Why did they say at the start of the game that Venom's shrapnel "made him forget how to speak Russian" (apparently they can brain wash him into remembering how to be Big Boss and remember his past but not languages) but later on in the game he uses foreign language phrases? Skull Face speaks in English because he's been accidentally exposed to almost every strain of the vocal chord parasite, except English. He says in a taped conversation with Code Talker. He had to develop the English strain in secret because his plan to destroy English is not what Cipher as a whole wants (the opposite, in fact).
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Sep 21, 2015 01:58
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I like to believe the reason Skullface speaks heavy accented Hungarian so it doesn't activate the parasites.
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Sep 21, 2015 02:07
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Is there a version of the parasites for Esperanto? What's to stop people from using a constructed language to avoid the affects should a worldwide outbreak happen?
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Sep 21, 2015 02:29
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Skull Face is going to be so angry when everyone makes Klingon the new lingua franca.Bholder posted:I like to believe the reason Skullface speaks heavy accented Hungarian so it doesn't activate the parasites. Actually he can't. His tape with Code Talker has CT realizing that Skull Face wants to know how to prevent parasite symptoms because Skully got himself infected with the Szekeler Hungarian parasite and is really goddamn mad that he can't speak his native tongue freely. He only gets one quick (unsubtitled) word of Hungarian in at the Devil's House.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:15
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I love how the missing link were loving parasites
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Sep 21, 2015 03:24
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That whole tape with Code Talker trying to convince Skull Face the parasite cure is radiation is great because he almost trolled SF into giving himself super-cancer or creating an unstoppable mutant parasite.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:27
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:When you get right down to it, MGS is just one big game of telephone. MGS is basically a soap opera for dorks.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:27
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Volt Catfish posted:I love how the missing link were loving parasites There's precedent for it, since mitochondria are independent organisms from our cells (at least in the sense that they have genomes independent from the cell itself) despite being the organelles which generate the energy needed to make us live and stuff. Parasite Eve wasn't totally full of baloney.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:29
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Nakar posted:That whole tape with Code Talker trying to convince Skull Face the parasite cure is radiation is great because he almost trolled SF into giving himself super-cancer or creating an unstoppable mutant parasite. The whole tape has a tone of "oh so you hosed up and came crawling to me for help? dumb bilagáana." to it.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:36
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is there a version of the parasites for Esperanto? Nothing - but that doesn't really matter. Skull Face doesn't want to wipe out ALL language, just English. Also they do mention in one of the later tapes that the parasites are somewhat "imprecise", because languages naturally borrow from each other over time, so if you're infected with one strain you might trigger it without even speaking that language - so long as your own native language is similar enough. So even a constructed language might still trigger the infection if it borrows too much from English.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:38
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Also they do mention in one of the later tapes that the parasites are somewhat "imprecise", because languages naturally borrow from each other over time, so if you're infected with one strain you might trigger it without even speaking that language - so long as your own native language is similar enough. So even a constructed language might still trigger the infection if it borrows too much from English.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:41
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Is there ever any explanation why Ocelot juggles 3 different American accents while being Russian Serious question
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Sep 21, 2015 03:51
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Troy Baker saw the spurs and general bandit attire and was like "welp, time to pull out the ol' Joel voice"
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Sep 21, 2015 03:53
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In MGS3 I'm pretty sure he (and everyone else) are actually speaking Russian the entire game, and everything is in English instead of being subtitled like all the old Cold-War-era spy movies. Sokolov compliments Naked Snake on his Russian when they first meet and Ocelot is almost assuredly speaking it when he's hanging around talking to Volgin and The Boss, at least. So the only American accents he really has are "kind of Western" and "kind of Western, but also an old man," which makes total sense given his obsession with Western movies and the fact that he probably modeled his English after them.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:58
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Ocelot needs to get Venom Snake ready for some football.
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Sep 21, 2015 03:59
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I would pay money to have Troy Baker give the "this is the greatest handgun ever made" speech or something.
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Sep 21, 2015 04:20
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:In MGS3 I'm pretty sure he (and everyone else) are actually speaking Russian the entire game, and everything is in English instead of being subtitled like all the old Cold-War-era spy movies. Sokolov compliments Naked Snake on his Russian when they first meet and Ocelot is almost assuredly speaking it when he's hanging around talking to Volgin and The Boss, at least. Now that I think about it, it was pretty funny that, of all the Russian cast, only Sokolov had an accent.
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Sep 21, 2015 04:21
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In It For The Tank posted:Now that I think about it, it was pretty funny that, of all the Russian cast, only Sokolov had an accent. Granin has a thick-rear end accent. Though he was drunk at the time.
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Sep 21, 2015 04:22
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Does that waterboarding scene at camp omega from the 2013 e3 trailer redband trailer show up? Could be the MISSING LINK at OMEGA
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Sep 21, 2015 05:03
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DaveKap posted:Which makes me question what the gently caress those Paz tapes are. Imagining Paz's existence and giving her photos then eventually realizing you're outside daydreaming is believable. Still being able to listen to physical items in your tape player after the fact is not. The tapes almost certainly don't exist? Also, when you think about it, if the photos exist, Snake is almost certainly going out there and tossing them into the ocean. Too bad it's not the Pacific Ocean.
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Sep 21, 2015 05:20
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Makes you wonder where the last photo (the one of the butterfly just stuck to the wall) came from. That one probably isn't real, but the others might be.
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Sep 21, 2015 05:24
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CJacobs posted:Makes you wonder where the last photo (the one of the butterfly just stuck to the wall) came from. That one probably isn't real, but the others might be. If it is real, it's probably a photo that Medic had. It's not related to Boss at all. I mentioned earlier that I thought Morpho might not be real, and was an almagmation of Venom's artificial memories and desire to have saved everyone. But that's obviously pretty far out-there speculation.
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Sep 21, 2015 05:41
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Paz is Venom's brain attempting to reconcile the fake memories he has with the real ones. Just like her he's stuck refusing to acknowledge any information which differs from the understanding that he is Big Boss. Paz is his brain's attempt to overcome the mental conditioning that Zero put him through and regain his real memories.
Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 06:00
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Also, this is the same franchise where Liquid's arm takes over someone's body. Just because they retconned the poo poo out of it later, let's not discount that part of Paz is physically in Venom's head. Even if there's no ghost poo poo going on related to this, Venom has to know right? it's got to be influencing his subconscious. I mean, he obviously didn't consciously know when he thought Paz was alive.
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Sep 21, 2015 06:10
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