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Turn two and it's already an action packed update! Hell Yeah! gently caress you, Crane!
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Sep 21, 2015 01:02
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OK, I think I'm best suited to continuing right. That Snake is 3 turns away from jumping on the wall. If I run to 2028, I can take potshots at the Helios from just outside its range, needing 12s to hit with the ER PCCs. If that group keeps coming at full speed, I'll have more bad shots the following turn and they'll be in our faces the turn after. We'll probably want the AC/5s to active on turn 4.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:37
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What's the logic behind crane-murder?
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Sep 21, 2015 02:01
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They block firing lanes, I think. Although I don't know about spending ammo on them, even if reloads are available you're unlikely to have the time and convenience to take advantage of them. So no enemies'll be in range next turn either, right? Tension's killing me.
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Sep 21, 2015 02:04
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Dolash posted:They block firing lanes, I think. Although I don't know about spending ammo on them, even if reloads are available you're unlikely to have the time and convenience to take advantage of them. Actually, I think if I run to 1027, I'll juuuust be in range of the Archer and can hit it on 12s (4 gunnery + 4 range + 2 running + 2 target movement). e: Does this sound like a good plan, fellow Acolytes?
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Sep 21, 2015 02:39
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The Merry Marauder posted:You dump everything in a slot, there's no half-measures. I wouldn't bother, anyway. Yeah, to double down on the point you're touching on, for the sake of the players: Don't leave the fortress unless it's absolutely necessary. Your 'Mechs are all really slow. This means two things. You can't build up a good defensive to-hit modifier so if you're out in the open you'll be really, really easy to hit. And since there's a gigantic empty killzone between the fort and the Cappies' deployment zone, you'll take much longer to cross the no man's land than the Cappies and therefore be vulnerable for much longer. Since the Cappies outnumber you 3 to 1 you'd basically be giving PTN free backshots at you no matter where you turn regardless of how much of a decisive initiative advantage you have. Inside the fort you gain the benefit of partial cover from almost any angle, meaning you're harder to hit (about as harder to hit as though you were jumping, without actually suffering from jumping penalties for your own attacks!). And even if you are hit, any hit that lands on your legs is completely ignored. Think of it as like a 20ish%* chance to negate any damage you take. You can also get limited but extremely valuable repairs and ammo in the fortress 'Mechbay, as well as the ability to funnel non-jumping attackers through one last bottleneck where you'll have the advantage of dictating how many units have LOS on you, which will determine how many of them can even attack. That fortress is basically the reason why this 4vs12 matchup is even a remotely fair fight. *Based on the probabilities of landing a 2d6 roll that could hit either the left or right leg. Chances of a leg shot are a tiny bit higher from side arcs than frontal or rear. EDIT: Also want to point out that the topography roughly lines up with your own range brackets from the walls, which is intentional. Narsham posted:Here's a very crude Paint edit of the map showing medium and close range brackets for us. I went with 14 and 8 hexes: my LPL isn't in medium until 7 and the TSEMP is in medium range at 9. This is your killzone. Fluffwise that entire place was probably cleared of rock spires so fort defenders could get easy shots on attackers in their medium-short ranges. Like a fortified camp in the jungles of Vietnam, where all around the camp is open space that had been cleared of trees making it easier for Marines to get a bead on people getting close. This also explains why the Viking's shooting at the cranes. Runa fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 03:11
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So yeah you guys will want to kill the absolute gently caress out of anything on the enemy side that can jump. That way the enemy can only get in if they blast the gate or make another hole in the wall. Which means less things shooting at you!
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Sep 21, 2015 03:28
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Yeah, to double down on the point you're touching on, for the sake of the players: No one's suggesting that we engage in knife-fights outside the fort. But it would be equally foolish to allow the cappies to advance unchalleged. If you look at their weapons vs our weapons, you'll notice one thing: Our firepower is overwhelmingly long range weapons, whereas their firepower is overwhelming medium to short range weapons. What we're suggesting is advancing to contact, then falling back as they close the range. Also, note that every pilot here is Gunnery 4. Fights at long range are going to be mostly a whole lot of missing. As for speed, most of their mechs are 4/6, merely 1 faster than our mechs. If their jumpers decide to outpace their other mechs, then we get to fight them piecemeal; better for us. That having been said, it looks like they are doing exactly that. Narsham, Theantero, can you guys take up positions around 1928/2028? if they slow up their pace, we can go over the wall, but that's a good place to get shots off on future turns AND crane murder. Call your targets, so we don't overkill cranes. We know they have 40 points now. Technowolf: Please to be helping me with crane murders. if you can finish off the crane at 1515, I'll move to 1429 and pop off at the one at 1613. Suggested orders: Walk to 1429 TT to 1529 2xLRM15, 2xLRM20 @ Crane 1613
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Sep 21, 2015 05:57
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A crane killed that Acolyte's family and now THE DAY OF HIS REVENGE IS NIGH
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Sep 21, 2015 10:10
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Right, so I can run to 1929, which will leave me barely in range of the crane at 1918 with my ER mediums. With two shots from those at long range (+6 modifier if I count correctly) and two shots from my gauss (+4) I should be dealing 40 damage exactly assuming I hit with everything (~43% chance of success). Narsham could help by unloading his PPCs at the crane on 2117 to soften it up, since even though he might have LoS on some of the enemies he couldn't possibly hit anything except the Helios and even that is a 12+ by my count. I feel like the crane would be a better target. Thoughts? Technowolf posted:Actually, I think if I run to 1027, I'll juuuust be in range of the Archer and can hit it on 12s (4 gunnery + 4 range + 2 running + 2 target movement). Ehh, using missiles with a measly 12+ seems like a waste.
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Sep 21, 2015 13:25
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Just keep in mind for those of you that are not the Legacy, plan your heat buildup for about 3 turns in advance- (Since many of you have more weapons than you do sinks, you can fire such that you build up +2 heat per turn or so, which means you get two turns of more firepower followed by one turn of less shooting to cool off.) You just have to make sure and plan based on where the enemy is going since if one of them ends up in a spot when you really want to alpha strike, but you can't without crippling your movement due to heat because you fired too many weapons on crappy 11s or 12s the previous turn, you're going to be all  (That said, in this scenario I totally expect that eventually you'll be taping the fire button down and drat the consequences. Especially that Battlemaster, once things get inside the gates.)
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Sep 21, 2015 13:47
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Yeah, going into heat to shoot cranes that the enemy will be past in a couple turns doesn't sounds great. Shooting enemies on 12s is more interesting and you might get lucky.
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Sep 21, 2015 14:13
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Theantero posted:Ehh, using missiles with a measly 12+ seems like a waste. I've got 12 turns of shooting with both launchers and the ability to resupply if I need to. Madgamer, are you going to continue to fire on the cranes?
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Sep 21, 2015 14:28
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Technowolf posted:I've got [...] the ability to resupply if I Fixed that for you.
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Sep 21, 2015 15:25
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Theantero posted:Right, so I can run to 1929, which will leave me barely in range of the crane at 1918 with my ER mediums. With two shots from those at long range (+6 modifier if I count correctly) and two shots from my gauss (+4) I should be dealing 40 damage exactly assuming I hit with everything (~43% chance of success). Narsham could help by unloading his PPCs at the crane on 2117 to soften it up, since even though he might have LoS on some of the enemies he couldn't possibly hit anything except the Helios and even that is a 12+ by my count. I feel like the crane would be a better target. I'm feeling a tad marginal about hitting the crane. I don't think the Capellans' best move is to hide behind it for a few turns with their jumpers to let the slower units catch up, as we can just engage the tanks under those circumstances. No, I expect the faster mechs to come straight at us and try to draw fire on worse TH numbers (9+) in our medium range bracket. If we ignore them and shoot at long range, we'll have about the same to-hit numbers and they'll be one turn's move away from jumping into the fortress. Frankly, if one or two of the fast mechs hide behind the cranes, they lose the chance to fire back for a turn and they still can't avoid taking two rounds of fire on the approach. Unless Madgamer and Technowolf really need a crane cleared for some reason, a small chance of damaging the Helios seems a more productive use of my time. I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise. Sanguinity meter = phlegmatic.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:09
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Narsham posted:Sanguinity meter = phlegmatic. 
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Sep 22, 2015 00:15
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MadGamer posted:What we're suggesting is advancing to contact, then falling back as they close the range. I think the problem here is that they can advance faster than you can fall back: and, while falling back, you may be unable to return fire while presenting your rear armor to the enemy. I'm not saying absolutely don't leave the walls. But I am saying be very careful and plan your possible retreat moves before every move that takes you outside of your walls. Make sure that you can get back inside without giving enemy units like 9+ or better shots on your back.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:17
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Technowolf posted:I've got 12 turns of shooting with both launchers and the ability to resupply if I need to. My suggested orders, repasted below, still stand: Walk to 1429 TT to 1529 2xLRM15, 2xLRM20 @ Crane 1613 If you could finish off the Crane at 1515, that'd be great. Narsham posted:I'm feeling a tad marginal about hitting the crane. I don't think the Capellans' best move is to hide behind it for a few turns with their jumpers to let the slower units catch up, as we can just engage the tanks under those circumstances. No, I expect the faster mechs to come straight at us and try to draw fire on worse TH numbers (9+) in our medium range bracket. If we ignore them and shoot at long range, we'll have about the same to-hit numbers and they'll be one turn's move away from jumping into the fortress. If you look at the weapon profiles of the fast jumper mechs, they're not really sinked well enough to fire every turn (excluding the snake, but it's OVERsinked). I expect them to pop out, take shots at either us, the wall, or the gate, then hop back into cover to cool off. Blowing up those cranes would deny them key cover. I think that nixing a crane is better than a 2% shot at a hit, but (as previous posters have said) not worth overheating over. Remember when calculating your shots, that the cranes will take a -4 penalty for being immobile MadGamer fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 00:40
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MadGamer posted:If you look at the weapon profiles of the fast jumper mechs, they're not really sinked well enough to fire every turn (excluding the snake, but it's OVERsinked). I expect them to pop out, take shots at either us, the wall, or the gate, then hop back into cover to cool off. Blowing up those cranes would deny them key cover. If we grant that that's what they'll do, they'll be shooting for sufficiently high numbers as to be ineffective, and you'll have better shots on closer things with worse move mods, so the existence of the cranes will be largely irrelevant.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:54
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MadGamer posted:
Can do.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:14
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MadGamer posted:No one's suggesting that we engage in knife-fights outside the fort. But it would be equally foolish to allow the cappies to advance unchalleged. If you look at their weapons vs our weapons, you'll notice one thing: Our firepower is overwhelmingly long range weapons, whereas their firepower is overwhelming medium to short range weapons. What we're suggesting is advancing to contact, then falling back as they close the range. Also, note that every pilot here is Gunnery 4. Fights at long range are going to be mostly a whole lot of missing. Fair point, and I can't really fault anybody for wanting to play aggressively in a game whose play is largely defined by maneuvering. That said, I feel I ought to remind you that every turn you advance forward to get range bracket advantage will have to be met by another turn you'll need to back up to get back to the fort. And I assume you'll be backing up with faces forward rather than showing your rear armor, though that call's up to you guys, but if you do you'll be effectively move 3 or 4 to their average move 6. And getting into firing position at the walls from outside the gate will probably take at least a turn or two for everyone besides Technowolf, and if you're in the fort but not in position to fire over the wall you'll have very limited LOS on the Cappies. If you're rushing back to the fort with your backs to the enemy you'll have more limited firing arcs, too. That said, sallying forth, even temporarily, will certainly make things interesting in the coming turns. Much more interesting than simply staying put and playing conservatively, I'll grant. So if you want to pursue better to-hit numbers at risk of your own safety then get those guns a blazin', just make sure you take into account the opportunity cost you may have to pay in order to get back to a defensible position.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:19
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Do not leave the fort holy poo poo. Instead clear firing lanes. All the cranes must go in the 1719 area. 1515 never mattered much but it's still a thing. Get on those walls and stay up there. Edit: not even sure if the cranes will do more than block a shot occasionally. I'm 100% sure about staying in the fort. Use that partial cover for constant +2 defensive mods or even a +1 if you wanna stand still. Do not give that up willingly when you can flat out ignore leg hits that do get through. poo poo is too good, you would be fools to leave that. Viva Miriya fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 03:57
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Alternatively: Leave the fort if you want, so we can watch what happens next. I'm not just saying this because I was one of the Death Commando players.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:07
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Essentially every enemy unit barring the two Brutus (Bruti?) can shoot anyone that steps out of the fort into LoS, and probably more than one unit can. There isn't a range advantage to exploit here, only a 30 meter thick wall of PTN has also kindly hinted that reloading might be hard to do, so keep that in mind. I'd say you have this turn to get into a decent position and then everything is going to go pear shaped real fast, doubly so if you are outside the fort.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:43
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I want to see what happens when you leave the fort, but I regularly do dumb things in video games so should probably be ignored in this case. The fact it's 3am has nothing to do with this idea.
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Sep 22, 2015 10:02
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PTN, do these look like buildings to you?
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Sep 22, 2015 11:15
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Olothreutes posted:Bruti? Brutuses. It's a proper noun so it pluralizes the way every other proper noun does in English.
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Sep 22, 2015 16:45
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The Merry Marauder posted:If we grant that that's what they'll do, they'll be shooting for sufficiently high numbers as to be ineffective, and you'll have better shots on closer things with worse move mods, so the existence of the cranes will be largely irrelevant. In fact, if having a crane intact makes the enemy want to take cover behind it, I'm all for that as I think it's suboptimal given their present force disposition. My read is that they're planning to use the fast lance to draw our fire and allow their heavier elements and tanks to close to medium range, at which point they can lay down heavy fire against us with the tanks while the assault lance blows the gates. I also note that any mech hiding behind the crane isn't shooting at us. As of their next movement, we will have plenty of available targets even if one or two mechs shelter behind the 2117 crane, so they're only hurting themselves. Plus I'm not going to blow it up with one turn's fire and don't want any of us wasting fire against it next turn. I'm going to take the net zero heat long-shot on the Helios. Kernoff seems hot-headed enough to take the improbable shot for first blood. And then, the thread can thrill as I
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Sep 22, 2015 18:16
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PoptartsNinja posted:Brutuses. It's a proper noun so it pluralizes the way every other proper noun does in English. That's the rule but I refuse to do it when it invokes Newspeak, so I will always say Axmen and Hatchetmen and whatnot.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:02
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If that pains you, you could always pluralize them as Axman BattleMechs.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:06
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Viva Miriya posted:Do not leave the fort holy poo poo. Instead clear firing lanes. All the cranes must go in the 1719 area. 1515 never mattered much but it's still a thing. Get on those walls and stay up there. I think standing still is actually a fairly good idea here-remember, you barely break even on movement mods, and because you don't want the guys to get in close with those guns, taking one or two of them out before they can get good TNs might be worth suffering a few more hits from potshots at long range.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:53
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Remember: If you're not singing 'Men of Harlech' or a Blakist equivalent, you're not winning. Does the base have any speakers we can use to blare out hymns and paeans to the Blessed Blake as the uncivilized horde draws near?
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Sep 22, 2015 20:05
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Defiance Industries posted:That's the rule but I refuse to do it when it invokes Newspeak, so I will always say Axmen and Hatchetmen and whatnot. Do you park your Axpersons in Castles Brian or Castle Brians?
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Sep 23, 2015 01:57
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Chronojam posted:Do you park your Axpersons in Castles Brian or Castle Brians? I park my Axman BattleMechs in Castle Brian Fortresses. 
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Sep 23, 2015 02:51
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Gonna have to agree about not leaving the fort. In the vaguest terms, heading out to meet an enemy you have a range advantage over and falling back to cover as they advance sounds good, but in the specific implementation here you're too slow, they're too close and getting into/out of the fort is too tedious. It'll only be a round or two before they're within range anyway, and closing all the time, you'd basically be hardly out the door and have to go right back inside while they cross the killing grounds you should be lighting up from the walls.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:37
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AJ_Impy posted:Remember: If you're not singing 'Men of Harlech' or a Blakist equivalent, you're not winning. Does the base have any speakers we can use to blare out hymns and paeans to the Blessed Blake as the uncivilized horde draws near? Forget singing, you give 'em an ad lib sermon over the speakers/open radio channel while you start taking 'em apart. Teach them the word. 
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Sep 23, 2015 05:45
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Magni posted:Forget singing, you give 'em an ad lib sermon over the speakers/open radio channel while you start taking 'em apart. Teach them the word. "And I shall strike down upon thee, those who attempt to throttle or restrict my packets! And you will know my name is Blake, when I lay my long-distance charges upon thee!"
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Sep 23, 2015 10:40
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I do not comprehend this fascination with expending ammo on construction equipment.
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Sep 23, 2015 16:14
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PoptartsNinja posted:I do not comprehend this fascination with expending ammo on construction equipment. They just want to see the world burn?
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Sep 23, 2015 16:16
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I just don't get it. Just because you can reload doesn't mean you're going to have a good opportunity to.
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Sep 23, 2015 16:46
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