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Uh, did you replace a broken 200 amp breaker or did you just put in a larger main without upgrading the feed? edit: Nevermind, sorry, should have checked your history in the thread first. The wire just looked small to me. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 06:27
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magic mountain posted:Uh, did you replace a broken 200 amp breaker or did you just put in a larger main without upgrading the feed? No problem! I should have clarified, I put in a main breaker where there was none. I wanted to have the ability to power down the panel so I can do stuff like replace regular breakers with CAFCI's and add a whole home surge protector I picked up. It could be undersized for all that I know, but AEP said that it was a 200A service. I'll check the sheathing of the cables for markings or try taking a caliper to the wires to see if the diameter is really 2/0 gauge.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:21
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ausgezeichnet posted:I've gotten 25 years of use out of this book and it's updates. It's worth way more than the $10.50 it costs on Amazon. If you use this to build understanding, you can refer to the NEC for data on conductor size, box fill, etc. Thanks for this, I just bought it to have as a easy reference. Also I saw a month or so back in the thread low voltage cat5e vs cat6: cat5 (and 5e) is absolutely rated at 1000 mbps full duplex for 100 meters (not feet.) The 5e spec only improves crosstalk reduction for noisy environments. This is more important in commercial installations with large fluorescent ballasts than at home. Cat 6 provides further reduction in cross talk and adds 10gig capability for the same 100 meters, with 6a bringing us to 500MHz and even more crosstalk reduction. Assuming your home is a normal home you can rig the jankiest looking cat5 cable for 100 feet (<1/3 the spec) and likely still get 1gbps performance out of it. If you are running it through your CFLs as a way of supporting it and it goes around your microwave several times by way of a service loop you should consider Cat7 STP.
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Sep 22, 2015 14:28
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OSU_Matthew posted:There appears to be a black sticky mass on the rear of the panel, which I'm assuming came from the grease coating the service entrance wires. I'm assuming it's dielectric grease to improve the connection? It seems to have oozed out over the back and top of the breakers, leaving a thin sticky film. Should I be concerned? Assuming aluminum service entrance cable that should be NOALOX or similar. It needs to be there, and the lugs on the breaker needs to be torqued to spec (read: torque driver). The correct torque for that breaker should be on the side of it (typical location for Square D). OSU_Matthew posted:Again, apologies for the crummy picture, but I was wondering about the service entrance wires, specifically the neutral. Is it normal that it doesn't have a sheathing? Did the original installer cheap out and substitute the ground for a neutral, and the SE neutral for the second hot 120v phase? I'll take a picture of the service entrance mast head if necessary, but I only see the two incoming hot wires, no neutral, Your neutral is bonded to ground at the meter base. So that bare wire is both as it exits the box and enters your load center. It's fine. As long as it's been properly torqued. Although that's still no excuse to mix neutrals and grounds on the bus bars like what someone did in your panel.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:28
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Motronic posted:Assuming aluminum service entrance cable that should be NOALOX or similar. It needs to be there, and the lugs on the breaker needs to be torqued to spec (read: torque driver). The correct torque for that breaker should be on the side of it (typical location for Square D). Thanks! That's what I was hoping for, not particularly great, but mixing the ground and neutral won't burn down the house. Would it help at all to add a second ground rod 6' apart from the other one under the meter? And yup, the service entrance cable is aluminum, so an oxidation inhibitor compound makes sense... thank you for clarifying that for me! I used my beam wrench to torque the service entrance cable lugs down to ~5 Newton meters. The main breaker installation manual said 3 NM, or 30 in. pounds, but my torque wrench doesn't have that level of finesse, so I just tightened it a tiny bit more to be safe.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:56
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I'm eventually going to need to install electrical service in the workshop I'm building in my back yard. I plan to do the wire runs myself, but I may hire an electrician to do the service hookup / subpanel install, depending on how confident I'm feeling. The main problem is that the planning department requires all wiring in the workshop to be in conduit, since I'm not finishing the walls, just leaving the studs exposed. I'm not certain how to go about running conduit into the walls given that I didn't do so at the time they're built. Can you feed conduit in when your max distance between studs is 16" (well, 14.5" given they're spaced 16" on-center)? It occurred to me that I could drill holes from the outside of each wall and install straight conduit that way, but I'd want to do that prior to putting up the housewrap (currently it's just plywood on 2x6s). Is this a legitimate approach? Any other suggestions?
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Sep 22, 2015 22:31
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Conduit goes OUTSIDE the walls, not inside. You can ask them if MC counts. Would be a lot easier to run inside the walls.
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Sep 22, 2015 22:37
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm eventually going to need to install electrical service in the workshop I'm building in my back yard. I plan to do the wire runs myself, but I may hire an electrician to do the service hookup / subpanel install, depending on how confident I'm feeling. You would need something flexible. You would need MC like Motronic said, or flexible conduit like FMC or ENT. MC would be nice because it already has the wires threaded through. You might want to call them before installing ENT since I got a feeling they meant "metal conduit".
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Sep 23, 2015 01:27
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kid sinister posted:You would need something flexible. You would need MC like Motronic said, or flexible conduit like FMC or ENT. MC would be nice because it already has the wires threaded through. And this is why I ask questions -- I don't know what I don't know. Thanks for the advice, guys; I'll give them a call and hopefully the flexible stuff (to be clear, we're talking about products like this, right?) will be what they were thinking of. As long as the turning radius is less than a foot I should be okay for everything.
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Sep 23, 2015 01:37
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That's FMC. Just MC without the F in front means "Metal Clad". That is the cable already wrapped in a smaller spiral metal sheath. For that stuff, leave an extra 2 feet or so at each box, then peel back the outer sheath so you have enough cable at each box, then fasten the outer sheath to the box with the appropriate fittings. One more thing: if you don't go the MC route, then you will almost certainly need to buy or rent a "fish tape" to help pull cable down your runs.
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Sep 23, 2015 02:07
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Checked in with the building and planning department, and FMC is absolutely allowed. Thanks for the advice!
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Sep 25, 2015 16:06
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Get MC cable when you go to buy material though. It's got the wire already in it.
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Sep 25, 2015 16:39
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angryrobots posted:Get MC cable when you go to buy material though. It's got the wire already in it. That obviously saves you from having to fish the cable out, but I'd guess it makes it trickier to cut the cladding off where you need to go into a junction box or switch or the like. Would I need a special tool (like a pipe cutter or something) for this? I had been figuring I'd just cut the conduit with a hacksaw.
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Sep 25, 2015 17:58
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They do, and some guys like it. And I know a guy who used a hacksaw to weaken then break the flex. I always just broke it open by hand, then cut with my pliers but whatever works. The tool makes sure you don't have any burrs. Either way you do NOT want to fish wire into FMC.
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Sep 25, 2015 18:06
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Short question about acceptable/safe extension cord load. Preface: This is Europe, specifically Denmark. I'm making a relatively long (8-10 m) extension cord to get a grounded line over to my computer equipment. There are only a few outlets with ground in my apartment, all in the kitchen. All other outlets were installed under an old code not requiring grounding, and don't need to be replaced (meaning the landlord won't.) I'm not expecting the load to go above 1000 W (and more likely be around 500 W), so no more than 4 Amp. Right now, I have some 0.75 mm gauge cable, which I'd prefer to use since it's easier to work with. However, the recommendations I'm seeing is to not make cords longer than 5 m with those cables, for loads up to 10 A. What are the risks of making long runs with thin cable? Since I'm not expecting loads anywhere near 10 A, does that mitigate those risks?
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Sep 25, 2015 19:47
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angryrobots posted:They do, and some guys like it. And I know a guy who used a hacksaw to weaken then break the flex. I did this too, with pliers and wire cutters. MC is covered in aluminum, so it cuts pretty easily. They also make little plastic inserts for MC that go around the wires and you push it in between the wires and sheath. It helps protect the wires against any burrs. Seconded, fishing wires through FMC sucks. Get or borrow a fish tape, then get ready to curse a lot. One thing I've done in the past to make fishing wires through FMC was to detach it from its boxes, straighten it out as best I could, then thread the cable through. Ooh, there is one rule in the code for conduit. You are only allowed a total of 360° for bends between pull points. That's 4 right angles. That rule is for ease of pulling. If you work with conduit enough, you'll understand why.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:00
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nielsm posted:Short question about acceptable/safe extension cord load. So, your problem is going to be your extension cord heating up over time. Your .75mm cable is approximately 21ga. This chart suggests that 16ga (approx 1.29mm) is the smallest you should consider, and is ideal for your application. I don't know about Denmark, but you can find prefabricated extension cords in the 8-10m range at any home improvement store in the US.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:03
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Safety Dance posted:So, your problem is going to be your extension cord heating up over time. Your .75mm cable is approximately 21ga. This chart suggests that 16ga (approx 1.29mm) is the smallest you should consider, and is ideal for your application. I don't know about Denmark, but you can find prefabricated extension cords in the 8-10m range at any home improvement store in the US. I'd use a prefabricated one if any store had something sensible. Thing is, apparently everyone in Denmark hates grounding and wants to pretend it's a non-problem. So most extension cords and power strips sold have either no ground, or a non-connected hole for ground. The few technically suitable ones I have seen have all been "ugly", wouldn't look acceptable for a semi-permanent installation in my living room. The underlying reason is probably that Denmark uses a snowflake plug for ground. After posting I did realize the problem would be that total resistance increases with cable length, making longer cables more prone to heating. On the other hand, I also noticed something else: The gauge is measured in mm², so area rather than diameter. Checking a conversion table, 0.75 mm² lands somewhere between American gauge 18 and 19, closer to 18.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:27
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kid sinister posted:I did this too, with pliers and wire cutters. MC is covered in aluminum, so it cuts pretty easily. They also make little plastic inserts for MC that go around the wires and you push it in between the wires and sheath. It helps protect the wires against any burrs. Great info, thanks! Always good to hear from the more experienced before trying something for the first time. I think I'll stop by the local scrap-metal place and see if they have any spools of MC nomex I can make use of. I can probably use scraps just fine since the runs won't need to be all that long.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:36
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kid sinister posted:They also make little plastic inserts for MC that go around the wires and you push it in between the wires and sheath. It helps protect the wires against any burrs.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:20
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angryrobots posted:The, uh, colloquial southern name for these is "red heads" and the inspectors here treat them as A Big Deal. They will spot check for the little tab that sticks forward, in at least a few boxes for your rough in. Weird. In Ontario I learned of them as "anti-shorts"
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Sep 26, 2015 01:32
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angryrobots posted:The, uh, colloquial southern name for these is "red heads" and the inspectors here treat them as A Big Deal. They will spot check for the little tab that sticks forward, in at least a few boxes for your rough in. They are a big deal anywhere with real codes. Because without them you're gonna short to ground as soon as someone moves some MC around. Even when you use a real MC cutter.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:36
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Yeah, I used them. I'm just saying, he needs to get some.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:42
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Messadiah posted:Weird. In Ontario I learned of them as "anti-shorts" I've heard both but redheads wins cause it's less syllables. They're "anti-short bushings" if you want to be super accurate but that's just a mouthful.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:59
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Anti short bushings are required for AC not MC (NEC 330.40) MC fittings keep the wire from coming into contact with the sheath, so it's kind of overkill.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:07
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Do those things just stick over the end of the MC or do you need a heat gun to shrink them down? EDIT: Looks like they just snap into place. I was thinking of something like a breakout boot (for bigger stuff). I was watching a safety video online about commercial wiring, and they were specifically talking about 347V applications, and implied it was used in building lighting. I thought that per the NEC, inside buildings you could only use up to 277V lighting even for large industrial areas like hangars or high-bays in a factory, and I think you can go up to 480V outdoors for lights that are very high off the ground. I wasn't sure if the video was from the US, Canada, or England, but I think it might have been Canada. Do people actually use 347V for indoor lighting? Is that even allowed? Video in reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSrpc8nxnHM Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 03:08
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we call them redheads up here in the PNW, too. also, every time i've purhcased a roll from home depot or wherever it comes with a bag of redheads attached to one of the wraps holding the roll together.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:44
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Three-Phase posted:Do people actually use 347V for indoor lighting? Is that even allowed?
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Sep 26, 2015 05:43
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H110Hawk posted:You may overestimate how much circuit tracing I want to do, unless this it's out of code for me to add them excessively? (All accessible.) I haven't mapped my entire breaker box yet, so I don't know if I have 1 or 2 breakers covering the kitchen. "Wiring Simplified" came in, looks like good reading material. I re-read our inspection report. Looks like I have nothing to worry about with the 2-pronger because none of our 3-prong outlets have ground either. I walked the house today with one of those 3-light outlet testers and confirmed, plus found a hot/neutral flipped one. The GFCI in the first bathroom tests good both with the plugin tester and both outlets turn off if I press the test button. The second bathroom has a single gang non-gfci switch/outlet. This just became way more than I had hoped. Our lights in the ceiling still have the occasional generalized flicker where they all do it at once, plus 2/8 of them aggressively flicker and have now died. I don't know if it's a bulb thing or what at this point. Same circuit our porch light is on which also flickers and dies. Is this something our "home warranty" should cover? Is this a "it depends" sort of scenario? I assume the demarcation of "Fixtures" vs. the rest is the little wires that stub out from the fixture to splice onto? "Electrical System/Doorbell/Smoke Detectors Covered: All parts and components that affect operation. Not Covered: Fixtures - alarms/intercoms and circuits - inadequate wiring capacity - power failure or surge - low voltage wiring - direct current (D.C.) wiring or components - lights." Lower right shows the uncovered jbox and one of the light fixtures in question along with the random trash that go up there who knows how:  Gratuitous picture of my box:  Our garage is a thing of nightmares. I'm not even going to start on that for now, but it reads a lot like "Uncle Jimmy's good with tools, I bet he could do that!" H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 02:51
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So I'm sick of the porcelain fixtures in the attic. There's one at each attic entrance - one has a pullchain, the other has a switch (and I've swapped that socket for one that includes a grounded outlet - that one has a 150W replacement CFL + a T8 shoplight plugged into it, but it's still not enough light where I need it). They're mounted in typical round boxes. I'd like to replace the switched one with a duplex outlet, so that I can simply attach a couple of plug-in shoplights (we've added more flooring in the attic, and there's no existing lighting over the furnace). Since I'd be replacing an existing item, I don't think I'd run afoul of any codes. The problem is, I can't find any covers that will fit a single or duplex outlet in a round box. Am I stuck with replacing the boxes with typical rectangular ones? I have exposed beams up there, so it's not that big of a deal, it's just something I'd prefer not to do unless I have to. The boxes are more than deep enough to handle outlets. For the light that currently has a pull chain, I was hoping to replace it with a combination outlet and switch, and use the outlet for another hanging corded shoplight. Two T8x32W bulbs are a hell of a lot brighter that a single incandescent 60 watt, and there's a ton of storage space in that portion of the attic that we're not using simply because we can't see a drat thing up there. Corded lights are cheap, and since I'm only replacing existing devices, I think I'm technically staying legal by going with corded devices, right? (local code doesn't allow a homeowner to extend an existing circuit, but does allow a homeowner to replace an existing device) e: we're in the side of the attic with the furnace at least every 2 weeks, between actually moving poo poo in and out of storage, and maintenance on the HVAC. The side with the pullchain isn't accessed much, so it's much lower on the priority list. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 06:20
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some texas redneck posted:Corded lights are cheap, and since I'm only replacing existing devices, I think I'm technically staying legal by going with corded devices, right? (local code doesn't allow a homeowner to extend an existing circuit, but does allow a homeowner to replace an existing device) FIrst of all, code requires a switched lighting device within a couple of feet of your attic entrance. Pull-chain porcelain base works, but connecting a corded shop light wouldn't. There are simplex outlets for 4" round boxes, but without some method of switching, that's no good. Your best bet is to replace the 4" round box with a 4" square box and a duplex outlet with switch. Use a good cover and everything's cool. You could even be clever about it and have the outlet half-switched so you have one always-on source of power.
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Sep 28, 2015 10:55
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some texas redneck posted:They're mounted in typical round boxes. I'd like to replace the switched one with a duplex outlet, so that I can simply attach a couple of plug-in shoplights (we've added more flooring in the attic, and there's no existing lighting over the furnace). Since I'd be replacing an existing item, I don't think I'd run afoul of any codes. The problem is, I can't find any covers that will fit a single or duplex outlet in a round box. Am I stuck with replacing the boxes with typical rectangular ones? I have exposed beams up there, so it's not that big of a deal, it's just something I'd prefer not to do unless I have to. The boxes are more than deep enough to handle outlets. Round-to-square-adapter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JU532E2/ duplex receptacle/switch: http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Duplex-Combination-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B003AU6R2M/ no box replacement necessary.
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Sep 28, 2015 15:51
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The plans for my workshop spec 20-amp circuits for most of my outlets, which by my understanding only require 12-2 romex. However I'll be running stuff like power tools and dust collection off of those outlets. Would there be any particular benefit to upgrading those circuits to 10-2 romex? I also have a couple of 220V 30-amp circuits in the plans; is there any reason I should go above 10-2 romex for that?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:40
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Only reason you need a specific gauge is that thinner wire overheats at higher ampacity. If you are running a huge wad of cables in a raceway or building your workshop in a 130°F desert, then you would likely need to use a higher gauge and there are charts for that. For ordinary residential use the minimum allowed should do just fine. The reason you need 12/2 for a 20A circuit is that 12ga can withstand 20A. I suppose you might want to consult those charts if you live someplace especially hot, the Canadian Electrical Code derates starting at an ambient temperature of 35 C. Note that the temperature rating on your cable is how hot the cable can get, not the ambient temperature you can use it freely in -- you can technically use 12/2 NMD90 at 85C but you'd only be allowed to run like 2A through it. fisting by many fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 22:36
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What fisting said (heh), or maybe if the runs are long enough to have problems with voltage drop. If you're planning to load the circuits up and the runs are longer than 70 feet or so it could help to use #10. You can find calculators and charts for voltage drop too, just check it all out with your temperatures and what you're going to do with the circuits and you'll be able to figure it out. So to answer your question more specifically there's probably no benefit in a normal situation, it's only if you need to mitigate some extra stress on the wire. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 22:56
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Sounds like it's not going to be a big deal then. The runs aren't going to be long -- if I loop around the entire workshop that's still only 80 feet, and more likely I'll just do one circuit down half the workshop and a different one down the other half. Thanks for the info!
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Sep 29, 2015 23:09
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There's a massive safety margin built-in to the required wire gauges. Romex, and THHN in MC, are rated for 90C. With no de-rating or other restrictions, NEC 310.16 would let you run 30 amps on 12 gauge and 40 amps on 10 gauge. If you're running the cables a very long distance, you might want to go up a size to reduce the voltage drop at high loads, but you'd have to really work at it to get circuits that long within your workshop. edit: whoops, too slow on hitting post...
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Sep 29, 2015 23:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Sounds like it's not going to be a big deal then. The runs aren't going to be long -- if I loop around the entire workshop that's still only 80 feet, and more likely I'll just do one circuit down half the workshop and a different one down the other half. I used this voltage drop calculator, run your numbers if you're not sure http://www.southwire.com/support/voltage-drop-calculator.htm
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Oct 1, 2015 02:17
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Hi guys. New to this whole forum/subforum. I am working on a project and wondering if this is the best place to ask. I am trying to wire 4 (because thats the battery case I have) AA batteries to a red LED. here's literally the extent of what I know with regards to any of this poo poo... The Red LED info from Amazon where I bought them. Contains 30 5mm (T-1 3/4) LEDs and some 1/4-watt resistors for making connections. In red casing/lens. Emits diffused, bright red light. Great for electronic and electrical experiments Forward Voltage: 1.9-2.0V So I have batteries, a battery bay with 2 wires coming out, 4 AA batteries, LEDs and resistors. How do I make this work?
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Oct 1, 2015 23:37
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Black wire to flat end of LED, round end of LED to resistor(s), resistor(s) to red wire. or whatever, only important parts are that you have enough resistance in there somewhere and positive (red) goes to the round end since current will only flow through it one way. I'd imagine just one of the resistors that comes with the kit would suffice but you could post the resistance to make sure. fisting by many fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 01:35
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