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Aquarium Gravel posted:I think - if we're going to the place where Rothfuss has a plan to make us say "Ohh, I get it. It's not clever but...I get it" in Book 3, that this section is meant to show off that Kvothe himself has the tendency to act like an Amyr, like the bloody-handed, justice-obsessed one in the story he tells Will and Simmon. He (Kvothe) also metes out bloody judgement on his own justification, because he knows what's right. Pretending to be Ruh and by extrapolation, having done away with the Ruh who owned the wagon before, is (supposed to be) justification for disabling them until he can get to the bottom of who these non-Ruh are, so that if he's right he can stright up murder them. I think you're right that that's where he's trying to go with this, since the story isn't exactly subtle about the "Kvothe is an Amyr" foreshadowing. It still doesn't make sense at the time, though, and it's really jarring after 500 pages of Kvothe sitting around in various places being talked at by various teachers and having sex with various super hot elves. The thing that bothered me most about the fake Ruh segment at the time is that Kvothe is really, really creepy toward the literal child sex slaves. He keeps touching them even when they're obviously uncomfortable with it, and commenting on how lovely they are and how much they look like Denna. A little of that makes sense when the fake Ruh are watching and he needs to play a role, but he does it in his inner monologue and when they're alone later too. I can't imagine what the intent there was, but it felt really gross. jivjov posted:Also; the fake Ruh didn't present it as theft out of necessity or for survival. They played it as "hey, we're Ruh, of course we stole stuff" Kvothe's thefts generally aren't necessary for survival either. I'm pretty sure that he'd have lived even if he hadn't stiffed Tempi on his share of the loot after the bandit fight.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:40
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Kvothe's thefts generally aren't necessary for survival either. I'm pretty sure that he'd have lived even if he hadn't stiffed Tempi on his share of the loot after the bandit fight. He gave everyone a share; he just snagged extra for himself.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:43
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It's almost like everyone realizes that Kvothe is an unlikeable dick... Except for the author and concurrently characters.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:45
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I think you're right that that's where he's trying to go with this, since the story isn't exactly subtle about the "Kvothe is an Amyr" foreshadowing. It still doesn't make sense at the time, though, and it's really jarring after 500 pages of Kvothe sitting around in various places being talked at by various teachers and having sex with various super hot elves. I actually have an answer for this too - The section of the book has our point of view "dip" back out of Kvothe's thoughts, and leaves his motivations mysterious to us all through his interactions. We see what he sees, but suddenly stop experiencing his thoughts about anything (which would normally be a welcome relief). We're supposed to think he's just going along with this, right up to the point where he wants to get laid by sex slaves, and then he stops acting and lays down justice. So, the actions are supposed to be ambiguous and verging on creepy(way past it, if you're not Pat) so that until he puts the mystery to rest by his subsequent actions, we think he's just gone full-on robber/rapist. This is also supposed to be clever - Rothfuss wants us to have our minds blown that Kvothe is such a consummate actor that he lulls the false Ruh into thinking he's ok with rape and kidnap, and almost fooled us too - except that it's not convincing, because we know too much about Kvothe to buy it. This is a result of this section with the false Ruh, being a slightly re-worked version of a Kvothe short story he wrote before the first book - so it's some of his most unpolished writing, shoehorned into a late part of the book where it doesn't really fit thematically, so that Rothfuss can have an "I almost got you" moment. Aquarium Gravel fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 19:46
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^^ That seems like the most likely explanation, except for where Rothfuss fucks it up by failing to present events in a cogent order that would make Kvothe acting the way he did when he did make sense. So, again, Rothfuss being Rothfuss. The way he treats the girls is still really creepy too.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:25
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Yeah, I think that section's been in an anthology or e-collection somewhere once upon a time, per Rothfuss' blog, and as a first introduction to an unknown character in a short story, it could work. You see Kvothe fall in with this merry band of scoundrels on the road, it gets a little darker in tone, he is cool with that, and then as soon as he's alone, we see him do some creepy, rapey stuff with the girls, and we're on the edge of our seats, until, BAM, turns out he's the avenging sword of justice and protector of innocents. That could really work, because we know nothing about this guy until he expositions it out to the lone survivor and the girls. At the end of practically every significant event in two novels, however, it's a tonal and thematic train wreck, kept only because Rothfuss is stringing together everything he ever wrote, good or bad, old or new, like mismatched beads on a string. I was sitting and trying to think of everything we've learned about Kvothe that make his actions in this section not just unlikely but unconvincing in making us think he's a rapist - and more than anything else, more than the dragon, or the sex ninjas, or the sorcery - it's that he's a Nice Guy, a Real Gentleman, and even though he was a champion Sexhaver when he was a virgin, he really Respects Women. Snore. We get it, you deserve credit for being a decent human being in all of your stories about yourself. Then I came up with "Felurian? More like Fedorian" *Tips Fedora-cloak* "M'Lady of Twilight..." and hung it up for the evening.
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Sep 25, 2015 03:11
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"Master Niketas, the problem of my life is that I've always confused what I see with what I want to see." The disastrous Fourth Crusade ends in the brutal sack of Constantinople. In the chaos of Crusader atrocities, Greek historian Niketas Choniates is saved by a westerner named Baudolino. A world traveler whose talents are in languages and lies, Baudolino was once advisor and son to Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, whose murder he has just avenged. As Constantinople burns, Baudolino recounts his life and adventures: he tells about an Italian peasant boy with the Apostle's gift for languages, about Imperial power struggles, how miracles and legends are forged, about what to expect in the Kingdom of Prester John, and about what lies mean to man. Umberto Eco's Baudolino is his second novel set in the Middle Ages, and an irreverent counterpart to his more famous The Name of the Rose. The novel is a comic adventure bursting with medieval curiosities, and is both stranger and kin to the scholastic detective story. They are both, at their heart, intellectual stories about systems of knowledge. In The Name of the Rose this system is the scholastic world of medieval monasteries, and in Baudolino it is Medieval imagination itself. Eco is concerned more with ideas than multidimensional characters, but at the heart of these ideas there is something profoundly human. As the novel proceeds, it progresses from historical comedy to pure fantasy, as Baudolino quests for the Kingdom of Prester John. Of course it is a lie. But it must exist, for he knows only that he has not seen it yet. Like its namesake, the novel is loose and unsteady, yet endlessly inventive. Baudolino clocks in at about five hundred and fifty pages. The finished Kingkiller Chronicle, which features the same story but not as good, will be five times longer. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2015 20:51
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Aquarium Gravel posted:Yeah, I think that section's been in an anthology or e-collection somewhere once upon a time, per Rothfuss' blog, and as a first introduction to an unknown character in a short story, it could work. You see Kvothe fall in with this merry band of scoundrels on the road, it gets a little darker in tone, he is cool with that, and then as soon as he's alone, we see him do some creepy, rapey stuff with the girls, and we're on the edge of our seats, until, BAM, turns out he's the avenging sword of justice and protector of innocents. That could really work, because we know nothing about this guy until he expositions it out to the lone survivor and the girls. The other problem is that Kvothe still acts like a huge creep even after he reveals his poison/murder plot. He still keeps calling the child sex slaves lovely, he still keeps commenting on how they're identical to Denna, and he never stops touching them. There's a paragraph right after he's revealed his plan where he's caressing one of the victims' cheeks and she tries to struggle but can't because he's drugged her and it feels rapey as gently caress. I thought Wise Man's Fear felt awfully patchwork, with pieces stitched together at random that don't really connect to each other or quite fit. Every segment has a different setting and no cast overlap, even where cast overlap would make sense (e.g. Tempi vanishes for no reason when they reach the Ademre place). And the seams are very visible: Kvothe returns from the fae world because the doomtree tells him Denna is in peril and he needs to save her right now!! ...and he immediately wanders off to the sex ninja camp for several months. I can easily believe that it was literally written as a bunch of disconnected standalone short stories that were clumsily spliced together at the last minute.
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Sep 26, 2015 06:39
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I predict BravestOfTheLamps next book to be The Moor's Last Sigh as Salman Rushdie does the unreliable narrator obsessed with the nature of stories ten times better in about ten times less pages. If the third book ever comes out its just gonna be the return to Felurian isn't it.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:49
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StoneOfShame posted:I predict BravestOfTheLamps next book to be The Moor's Last Sigh as Salman Rushdie does the unreliable narrator obsessed with the nature of stories ten times better in about ten times less pages. The gently caress Fairy From Fae is coming to collect. With,  , interest.Edit: Forgot commas Benson Cunningham fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 05:04
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:He tells about an Italian peasant boy with the Apostle's gift for languages, about Imperial power struggles, how miracles and legends are forged, about what to expect in the Kingdom of Prester John, and about what lies mean to man. Speaking of Prester John, for those of you who also enjoy the literary nonsense style of wonderland: The Habitation of the Blessed and its sequel are entertaining. Great prose throughout. Sometimes the story does drag, but I recommend it. Now I am going to snag a copy of The Name of the Rose and Baudolino next time I see them.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:38
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M_Gargantua posted:Speaking of Prester John, for those of you who also enjoy the literary nonsense style of wonderland: The Habitation of the Blessed and its sequel are entertaining. Great prose throughout. Sometimes the story does drag, but I recommend it.
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Sep 28, 2015 03:35
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I cannot stress enough that whatever Kingkiller tries, Baudolino does a hundred times better, without really trying, and in one book.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:16
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I'm honestly not sure if that's what Rothfuss is trying to do, though: for all intent and purpose Kvothe really is the most awesome being in the world.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:31
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Not in a world where Denna is still alive. Kvothe has told us over and over again about how awesome and special she is compared to him. So when do you think Kvothe is going to rename himself? I'd say its gonna be right after he accidentally kills/causes Denna's death.
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Sep 30, 2015 13:38
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lionsgate-wins-rights-fantasy-book-828557
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Oct 1, 2015 19:31
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So looking forward to the sex ninja videogame.
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Oct 1, 2015 19:32
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Nephzinho posted:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lionsgate-wins-rights-fantasy-book-828557 I'm on my phone but... Really. Cross development, with both TV and movie components? Hi, everyone, it's me, a terrible idea. Knocking on your door. Pick your storytelling medium, adapt your script to it as makes sense and make a complete, coherent product. The Movie-miniseries-series-movie-movie concept was poo poo when they floated it for The Dark Tower, because that's not how storytelling works, you don't just completely disrupt your established story and character development arcs by dramatically lengthening and shortening them. Not to mention the critical differences in budgets for sets, costumes and effects between movies and TV shows, even good ones -anyone think Agents of Shield is ready for a feature length Marvel film? Thank god this is early days and some of this stuff can get cancelled after the concept art stage so they can tell Rothfuss they tried.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:10
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Aquarium Gravel posted:I'm on my phone but... Really. Cross development, with both TV and movie components? Hi, everyone, it's me, a terrible idea. Knocking on your door. You're forgetting VIDEO GAMES.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:22
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Nephzinho posted:You're forgetting VIDEO GAMES. I'm not. Finally a medium that has the ability to fully capture the inventory management I got to read about over several thousand pages! edit: *press X to check money
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Oct 1, 2015 21:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm not. Finally a medium that has the ability to fully capture the inventory management I got to read about over several thousand pages! So when I get to the gently caress Fairy part of the video game is there a combo breaker I need to execute to launch into full out Virgin super sex? Also I'm betting this game will not be playable with the wife in the room.
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Oct 2, 2015 01:01
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Nephzinho posted:You're forgetting VIDEO GAMES. Ugh. Yeah, I remember how crap the budget was for Season 1 of Game of Thrones, on HBO of all places, for a famous, popular series. Remember the Tourney at King's Landing, with like 65 people on wooden stands watching the jousts, in a world where lords are supposed to field armies in the ten thousands? It was embarrassing, the scope of this epic world was whittled down to a tiny, narrow scale because budget concerns are a real thing, and it can't all look like Lord of the Rings when you're shooting 5 times as much finished programming. Hey, let's take roughly that same amount of money for a less well-known and respected unfinished fantasy series, and then let's split up all the money Lionsgate has for this project, and diversify our risks by making a half-assed movie, TV show and game using 1/3 of that on each one. Brilliant. It's going to look like Eragon. The only saving grace is that it's likely 2/3rds talk, and will remain so until/unless it's the next GoT - they're saying "Hey, you know how Game of Thrones is a big multi-season show, with a Telltale video game and that debunked rumor about a movie finale/spinoff. We're going to do all of that too."
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Oct 2, 2015 01:11
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They did have a Patrick Rothfuss stretch goal in the Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter. No idea how that will turn out. Luckily, that team surrounded itself by pure talent so no matter what kind of crud Rothfuss may put in, there'll be other talent to off-set it or rewrite it to make it work. Or who knows, that setting is kind of weird so maybe he'll be in his element and write something good. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 03:35
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I wonder if someone asked Rothfuss if he was cutting back on writing book 3 to be a "creative consultant" on these movies/miniseries/video games if he would get very offended and lay down a rant about how his readers don't own him.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:28
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Donkey posted:I wonder if someone asked Rothfuss if he was cutting back on writing book 3 to be a "creative consultant" on these movies/miniseries/video games if he would get very offended and lay down a rant about how his readers don't own him. Well he'd be right...he's under no obligation to produce Doors or Stone on any particular timeframe (or at all).
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Oct 2, 2015 04:39
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Which is good, because if he ever puts the book out it's going to confirm that NotW was a fluke at best and he really is a lovely writer who just got extremely lucky, not that he's the first or last who will do so (see: Stephanine Meyer and Twilight or the Twilight fanfic writer who renamed stuff so he could publish 50 shades).
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Oct 2, 2015 05:28
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I hate it when great things happen to average people.
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Oct 2, 2015 06:08
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Donkey posted:I wonder if someone asked Rothfuss if he was cutting back on writing book 3 to be a "creative consultant" on these movies/miniseries/video games if he would get very offended and lay down a rant about how his readers don't own him. Guess what: He'd be right.
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Oct 2, 2015 11:14
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jivjov posted:Well he'd be right...he's under no obligation to produce Doors or Stone on any particular timeframe (or at all). I imagine there is some level of obligation to his publisher, though, since I'd guess he signed a contract for the whole trilogy.
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Oct 2, 2015 11:24
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Of course he would be right that he's under no obligation to his fans to write his book series. At the same time, I think it's pretty funny when a writer's popularity explodes, they cut back on writing to attend conventions and publicity events, and then they become very defensive and self-conscious when people ask how the next book's going. It's kind of like a paradox. He's popular mostly because he's a writer but he can't write very much because he's popular. Donkey fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 17:33
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Poking around the GOT thread indicates GURM also suffers this affliction. You know, JK Rowling is one of very few fantasy authors I can think of that actually completed her series and in a somewhat timely fashion. There was the four years between GOT and POA but she didn't necessarily stop writing completely for the sake of going to cons. Sanderson is also prolific as gently caress. I wonder what it is. Cons are fun but writing is also fun. Writing down the next installment of something is an adventure. Rothfuss is such a hack for ignoring his craft like this.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:53
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Srice posted:Guess what: He'd be right. Minus the fact that he told us all three books would be completed and released within 2-3 years of the first one coming out you're totally right. But I guess we don't own him, so we have no right to believe that he would tell the truth and we could take him at his word.
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Oct 2, 2015 18:17
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I can't really blame him if he's not writing because he wants to spend time with his newborn-ish children or indulge in his newfound fame. Not a lot of people have opportunities like he has now, so it makes sense that he'd want to take advantage of them while they're still available. I certainly prefer that theory over the theory that he's not writing because he can't figure out a satisfying way to end his trilogy because he's a terrible hack (the theory most people in this thread seem to ascribe to).
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Oct 2, 2015 18:25
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Not really, that theory implies that he cares about ending his trilogy in a satisfying way. You got the hack part right, though.
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Oct 2, 2015 18:40
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anilEhilated posted:Not really, that theory implies that he cares about ending his trilogy in a satisfying way. You got the hack part right, though. Yep. More so, we just think writing is hard (even if you aren't good at it) and he would rather do easy things. And he is above average at writing from a purely % standpoint. We just all wanted him to be 'exceeds expectations' instead of 'meh'.
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Oct 2, 2015 18:41
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HIJK posted:You know, JK Rowling is one of very few fantasy authors I can think of that actually completed her series and in a somewhat timely fashion. There was the four years between GOT and POA but she didn't necessarily stop writing completely for the sake of going to cons. Sanderson is also prolific as gently caress. Joe Abercrombie is the fantasy Author I like to cite. A friend of mine just started his stuff not long after finishing ASoIaF and said "This is okay so far but I'm having a hard time getting my mind out of Westeros" and I said "You'll feel better about it in 5 years when Martin hasn't even started the 7th book yet and Abercrombie has just finished writing another whole trilogy and maybe a spinoff or two" I might have given Martin too much credit in assuming he'd have released book 6 by then.
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Oct 2, 2015 18:51
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Steven Erikson is actually pretty drat great at this. He wrote book 1, couldn't sell it for ten years, but when he did, he managed to put out nine others in quick succession and consistent quality. Not to mention five novellas, two separate books and now working on a prequel trilogy. That being said, the time it takes Rothfuss to write isn't really an issue, it's what comes out after. Name of the Wind managed to get some hopes up but I have no idea how can anyone wait for anything after Wise Man's Fear and whatstheoverlyflowerytitle.
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Oct 2, 2015 18:57
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I liked the Bast story though. So he does have good writing in him. Maybe he's burned out on the Kvothe thing and we can just look forward to several books about the Fae and Bast's Zany Adventures of Murder and Romance.
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Oct 2, 2015 19:04
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Benson Cunningham posted:Minus the fact that he told us all three books would be completed and released within 2-3 years of the first one coming out you're totally right. Plenty of authors have delays for whatever reason, but it's best to not dwell on it. I think it's real weird to focus on that as a criticism of an author
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Oct 2, 2015 20:49
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Srice posted:Plenty of authors have delays for whatever reason, but it's best to not dwell on it. I think it's real weird to focus on that as a criticism of an author You're moving the goal posts. Specifically, the author made a verbal commitment to release dates. Given the degree to which that slipped, it is not unfair for people to be upset. If he had made no verbal commitment to release dates, then people would not have a right to be upset. It's like if I tell you I'm taking you to Disney World for your birthday, and then I give you socks. If I just gave you socks, that's one thing. But, I unfairly planted the seeds of something much better in your mind.
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Oct 2, 2015 21:11
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