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graynull posted:I like the sound of the new perk system, since the article says that each additional rank has something unique to add besides just 20% damage or whatever. I am curious if the perk poster will be easy to mod though. I'm reminded of Skyrim's constellation menu and how terribly built it was, in as much as I think modders were hard-coded out of adding additional skill trees to it. I'm not 100% sure but I think the DLCs added in new skill trees (vamp/wolf perks or whatever) and that gave modders a framework to add their own skill trees in.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:48
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graynull posted:I like the sound of the new perk system, since the article says that each additional rank has something unique to add besides just 20% damage or whatever. I am curious if the perk poster will be easy to mod though. I'm reminded of Skyrim's constellation menu and how terribly built it was, in as much as I think modders were hard-coded out of adding additional skill trees to it. Yeah, I like that any you can get the first rank of any perk as long as you have the appropriate stat, but then the later ranks are level gated. Seems like a good way to reward SPECIAL specialization, but still gate the really cool stuff until you're stronger. I'm also really hoping that the additional 3 ranks of Bloody Mess aren't just a higher damage percentage. I want rank 4 to be Rise of the Triad style "4 eyeballs fly out of one human skull" type gore showers.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:58
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Moridin920 posted:I'm not 100% sure but I think the DLCs added in new skill trees (vamp/wolf perks or whatever) and that gave modders a framework to add their own skill trees in. El Cid posted:I'm also really hoping that the additional 3 ranks of Bloody Mess aren't just a higher damage percentage. I want rank 4 to be Rise of the Triad style "4 eyeballs fly out of one human skull" type gore showers. 
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Sep 24, 2015 19:02
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They made marking the shortest path to your objective a Perk rather than default, that's hopeful. e: And if people didn't read the blog post, something like Gunslinger is "More damage/more range/chance to disarm/instantly cripple a limb". It's not just "More damage/more damage/more damage/more damage". Strong Back lets you fast travel and even run while encumbered. It's not just a lot of BIGGER NUMBERS upgrades for anything really. Mulva fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 19:05
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I'll reserve judgement until I actually play it, but the idea of having to spend a perk on getting to the SPECIAL rank where I can then actually pick the perk I want sounds pretty loving lame. That's basically a dead level where your character doesn't change in any meaningful way whatsoever. The benefits of +1 to a SPECIAL rank are even more obtuse than the boring-rear end +20% damage. I don't understand that design philosophy at all.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:11
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Moridin920 posted:For real? There's all kinds of generic viking themed games out there. Smart and attractive are hardly words you can use to describe bHolder.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:12
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If they give actual utility besides bigger numbers, that's pretty neat and almost unexpected from Bethesda. It could potentially lead to every level having something new, filling out the gaps between interesting stuff gets kinda boring in NV.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:41
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FauxGateau posted:Smart and attractive are hardly words you can use to describe bHolder. here lies bholder lost while trying to find quartermaster bardon
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Sep 24, 2015 19:42
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sector_corrector posted:I'll reserve judgement until I actually play it, but the idea of having to spend a perk on getting to the SPECIAL rank where I can then actually pick the perk I want sounds pretty loving lame. That's basically a dead level where your character doesn't change in any meaningful way whatsoever. The benefits of +1 to a SPECIAL rank are even more obtuse than the boring-rear end +20% damage. I don't understand that design philosophy at all. I'm not sure if increased special stats will have any actual gameplay effects or if they will just serve to gate perks. That being said, with the removal of skills which were traditionally very big in dialogue checks, perhaps special stats and perks/ranks will now replace them.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:42
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Really don't like them simplifying the system down to this level and having everything tied to perks. I liked having skills being the source of constant progression and perks being a literal perk to add variety. Hopefully they show off some new interesting ones and I get swayed back on board.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:51
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They actually told us they do first. Strength is default carry weight, endurance affects how quickly AP drain during sprints while Agility is your base AP, Intelligence affects leveling speed, etc. Increase strength, and you can carry more even before Strong Back.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:52
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I counted three variations on "Aim your gun at <insert enemy type here> and pacify them". Yeah... exciting.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:57
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:" Eventually you realize that players are a lot like rats and the maps are a lot like mazes with cheese" - T Howard But what if you're lactose intolerant?  Groetgaffel posted:So that Character system video had Lady Killer as a base Charisma perk. Either Confirmed Bachelor is within Lady Killer's own perk tree, or it's not in the game by the looks of it.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:23
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Leinadi posted:I counted three variations on "Aim your gun at <insert enemy type here> and pacify them". The higher ranks in the human pacify power were interesting. Rank 2 let you order them to attack others, and rank 3 let you give them more commands. I assume the other two pacification perks were similar, so you can just send your radscorpion minions over to gently caress people up. That's cooler than anything charisma's let you do in any previous Fallout. Edit: And that's one thing I've always felt was sadly lacking in most RPG-ish games: the ability to get someone to gently caress off without having to shoot them in the face. By the time you're stomping around in power armor with a nuke launcher strapped on your back, raiders with machetes would still just charge straight at you. That always struck me as stupid. Valatar fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 20:31
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Yeah, I actually think I'll max Charisma for my first character just so I can boss bandits around when they try to gently caress with me.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:32
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The ability to pacify dudes with my gun alone is a way cooler perk than almost anything in FO3.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:37
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I wonder if the pacification perks will only work with guns/ranged weapons. It states 'gun', but maybe I can brandish my fists at someone and get them to calm the gently caress down too.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:40
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Valatar posted:The higher ranks in the human pacify power were interesting. Rank 2 let you order them to attack others, and rank 3 let you give them more commands. I assume the other two pacification perks were similar, so you can just send your radscorpion minions over to gently caress people up. That's cooler than anything charisma's let you do in any previous Fallout. Yeah, I have to say that is a bright spot. I guess that the other boring-looking stuff could also just be level 1, and be hiding some legitimately exciting perks. Although if the Skyrim trees are any indication...
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Sep 24, 2015 20:41
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quote:If you’re a longtime Fallout fan, you’ll notice that the Skills seen in previous games have been folded into this system. The previous Skill system had some confusing parts and ended up spreading your choices too thin. Some of you had questions like: “What’s better, the Charisma SPECIAL, or the Speech Skill? Why are assault rifles in Small Guns?” Additionally many Perks simply raised associated Skills. The Gun Nut Perk in Fallout 3 increased two separate Skills. In Fallout 4, the ranks of Gun Nut act as gates for modifying and crafting weapons. Sneak was a skill in Fallout 3, and you simply increased its value. In Fallout 4 Sneak becomes a Perk that not only makes you harder to detect, but wraps in previous perks like Silent Running and Light Step into its ranks. By wrapping these systems together, it keeps the emphasis on your SPECIALs and the level-up choices more rewarding. Fallout: New Vegas fixed all these problems, and yet Bethesda decided that what was really needed was to just completely overhaul the entire system because of their insistence on being different from everybody else. Also that perk menu looks loving atrocious. It looks like a pain in the rear end to navigate and they did this solely because they wanted to show off their lovely 2-3 frame Vault Boy animations. gently caress, most of the new Vault Boy illustrations look amateurish, which is sad considering that he's a simple cartoon and that the rest of the art direction seems to be spot-on.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:47
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sector_corrector posted:Yeah, I have to say that is a bright spot. I guess that the other boring-looking stuff could also just be level 1, and be hiding some legitimately exciting perks. Although if the Skyrim trees are any indication...
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Sep 24, 2015 20:51
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oh no is confirmed bachelor/cherchez-la-femme gone 
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Sep 24, 2015 20:51
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ImpAtom posted:The ability to pacify dudes with my gun alone is a way cooler perk than almost anything in FO3. I don't like it being divided into three separate perks, though.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:53
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Well, mechanically, this is all really good news I think. We saw a bunch of "+20% damage" skills, but the ranks promise to make things more interesting. It's clearly not three ranks of damage up, but three interesting and different effects. And honestly, the ones we've seen are pretty interesting and different. The only bad thing thing was really just a depressing inevitability at this point. No gay perk. Oh well. I guess that's what we can expect from a "character" system that is just a list of abilities that have nothing to do with your actual character. Bethesda's doing okay for a system that let's you do interesting stuff, but I miss New Vegas's perks that actually let you define who you were. Even something like the cowboy perk that was just a collection of thematic bonuses felt a lot more characterful than any of this stuff.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:00
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It's decent compromise between power and diversifying potential builds or just straight padding.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:02
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Rinkles posted:I don't like it being divided into three separate perks, though. If it was just one there would be no reason not to have it because the game is going to give you a shitload of Perks to work with and everyone could spare 3 to order around like 90% of all mobs in the game. Or maybe realistically 70% because they go big into robots too. 9 Perks to order around everything on the planet isn't a lot when you'll have at least 50 by the time you can get to order humans around. By level 3 you could have the chance to make every single living creature in the game stand down. That's the most impressive Charisma has ever been.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:04
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Boogaleeboo posted:If it was just one there would be no reason not to have it because the game is going to give you a shitload of Perks to work with and everyone could spare 3 to order around like 90% of all mobs in the game. Or maybe realistically 70% because they go big into robots too. 9 Perks to order around everything on the planet isn't a lot when you'll have at least 50 by the time you can get to order humans around. By level 3 you could have the chance to make every single living creature in the game stand down. That's the most impressive Charisma has ever been. Not if the charisma requirement is high enough. That said, this is something I've wanted RPGs to have since forever, and am quite (pleasantly) surprised I'll see it in a Bethesda game of all things.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:10
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Want that perk poster on my wall. Not going to miss skills one bit. Anyone else already have an idea how they want to make their character?
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Sep 24, 2015 21:11
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Rinkles posted:I don't like it being divided into three separate perks, though. I don't really get the problem with it being divided into different perks. There are tons of perks and abilities that are not universal. It's a hefty perk investment but it kinda needs to be if it actually works well because that is absurdly powerful.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:21
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This is obviously really subjective but I'm also not going to miss skills that much. I get that people want a sense of progression (I do too) but the skills going up a few points every level was eh... kinda useless for me to be honest. I didn't feel a gameplay difference between guns at level 60 or guns at level 70 (even if they were in fact doing more damage or whatever) and aside from leveling skills for certain skill checks I didn't feel like I was really getting anything out of them. The coolest part about skills for me were the extra bonuses you get at various skill levels. If they just nix skills and let me select those as perks I don't care  I also turned off the dice roll aiming and made the bullets go straight no matter what though, so that might have affecting things (dumb system anyway imo). Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 21:23
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Leinadi posted:I counted three variations on "Aim your gun at <insert enemy type here> and pacify them". These were in previous Fallout games. SunAndSpring posted:Fallout: New Vegas fixed all these problems, and yet Bethesda decided that what was really needed was to just completely overhaul the entire system because of their insistence on being different from everybody else. Yaos fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 21:28
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What part of "I think this looks like it'll take forever to get through and I don't want to look at Bethesda's lovely Adobe Flash animations" implies that I think a square is a difficult concept, you retard?
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Sep 24, 2015 22:06
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I'm unclear on how you think it'll take longer to go through than the previous system, which was just a list.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:13
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drat this new perk system looks really cool, I've said it before but i'm still super glad skills are gone, thanks Bethesda. The animations are cute too (although I prefer the ones in the pip boy)
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Sep 24, 2015 22:29
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Rincewind posted:oh no is confirmed bachelor/cherchez-la-femme gone We dont know. Either they are further ranks of Lady Killer, or they just removed them. That said the LGBT dialog choices are still in the game, so im not sure it matters.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:30
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Tracking prerequisites for perks was one of my bigger issues with the old skills system. Inelegant and punished not having a character spec from the get go.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:35
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For those of you that just watched the video and didn't read the article, it also confirms that there are perks that don't come from the perk chart. The example given was there are now 10 different issues of Grognak the Barbarian and each one boosts the Barbarian perk for better melee criticals.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:37
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7c Nickel posted:For those of you that just watched the video and didn't read the article, it also confirms that there are perks that don't come from the perk chart. The example given was there are now 10 different issues of Grognak the Barbarian and each one boosts the Barbarian perk for better melee criticals. Oh man, collect quests. Whee.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:38
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sector_corrector posted:Oh man, collect quests. Whee. An RPG with collectible items, truly the shocker of the century.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:43
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sector_corrector posted:Oh man, collect quests. Whee. Far from a Bethesda apologist, but how is adding more useful loot to the game a bad thing?
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Sep 24, 2015 22:45
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Besides the melee bonus, I'd want to collect em just to see the covers.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:54
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