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Theantero posted:Plan crane-kill was perfectly reasonable Snake is higher-value target at the moment. I think we should both unload on it. On the left, our LRM mechs should plan to unload on the Van Luckner next turn; if we can mobility-kill it, that AC/20 will never come into range and it'll be reduced to using LRMs exclusively. By turn 5 we'll have jumpers threatening to get inside the fort who we'll have to focus on, though how many depends on how lucky Theantero and I get. I suspect we'll want to active the turrets on turn 5 as well.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:21
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Sounds reasonable. Snake it is.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:25
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Shots on the Snake look to absolutely be the right call IMHO. The jumpers are the most likely to seriously gently caress up your defense; hit them first. Also I would seriously suggest not activating the AC turrets anytime soon. Wait until you've got some enemies in that kill box with exposed backs. I know you probably already know that, but still.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:I do not comprehend this fascination with expending ammo on construction equipment. I've posted my orders in the thread every turn, with my reasoning behind it, before the deadline for open critique. I've gotten some good points (thanks, T.G. Xarbala) and good discussion from the other players, and a lot of goons being goons. But nothing about it should be a surprise. PoptartsNinja posted:Makes the most sense to me, so I'm just going to go with this. I know I'm probably not the best BT player, but every way I look at it, I don't see it. Please feel free to correct me, as I'd like to understand your point of view not only as the scenario designer but as someone with more BT experience. Here's what I see: Looking at the range brackets of us vs Opfor, we're actually pretty even in terms of firepower at extreme range until we hit about 12 hexes out. So, short term, you want to swap as little fire as possible with us until you hit that spot. Long term, you want to blow up that gate, engage us in short range combat where you can use your maneuverability to separate us and rip us apart. Orders: Back up to 1128 TT to 1127 2x LRM20, 1x LRM15 @ ARC-5R Technowulf: I think the Archer's the best target too, but be careful of your movement. Where you're at and 1128 are bad places this turn because they're just inside the long range for the Archer's ER Large Lasers and the Rifleman's LB-10Xs. You should be able to go back to 0828, and still be within range of the Archer. I, on the other hand, don't have a choice. if I want to shoot at the Archer, I have to be in 1128. But they'll be at 12s to hit me, and 11s to hit you.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:49
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I think you might be able to shoot the Archer without moving at all: I'm not 100% certain on the firing arc from torso twisting, but if you can make a better shot while they're still at long range, go for it.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:54
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Gwaihir posted:I think you might be able to shoot the Archer without moving at all: If he doesn't move he's at 22 hexes from the Archer, which is outside of his range.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:13
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PoptartsNinja posted:I do not comprehend this fascination with expending ammo on construction equipment. Well you did set up a mission where there's nothing for the players to do in the first three turns in a game where turns take literal days to complete, so it shouldn't be a surprise that players want to do something like fire their guns.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:29
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TildeATH posted:Well you did set up a mission where there's nothing for the players to do in the first three turns in a game where turns take literal days to complete, so it shouldn't be a surprise that players want to do something like fire their guns. Reminder that I waited for far, far longer than three turns to start wrasslemanning in Piratefest.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:33
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The legacy lives on.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:36
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TildeATH posted:Well you did set up a mission where there's nothing for the players to do in the first three turns in a game where turns take literal days to complete, so it shouldn't be a surprise that players want to do something like fire their guns. I don't remember the Death Commandos firing at random trees or anything...
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Sep 24, 2015 03:56
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apostateCourier posted:Reminder that I waited for far, far longer than three turns to start wrasslemanning in Piratefest. I also remember you kicking a building every time there wasn't a mech in reach 
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Sep 24, 2015 04:06
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MadGamer posted:I've posted my orders in the thread every turn, with my reasoning behind it, before the deadline for open critique. I've gotten some good points (thanks, T.G. Xarbala) and good discussion from the other players, and a lot of goons being goons. But nothing about it should be a surprise. I'm teasing a little. It's been a stressful week. I should probably be more careful about joking at your expense. MadGamer posted:I know I'm probably not the best BT player, but every way I look at it, I don't see it. Buildings block more line of sight the closer you are to them, and the construction zones are also in a position where they hinder my movement significantly at a bracket where I need that range the most. I have no chance if I mob the walls. The other thing I look at is a long-term consideration: the Catapult and Viking only have 12 rounds of ammunition. That seems like a lot now, but it's really not when the Viking will probably need at least 3 turns of fire to eliminate one `Mech. You'll also both run out at the same time and the moment you step off the wall to rearm the Legacy and the BattleMaster have to bear the brunt of my fire unaided. So you have to balance stepping off the wall to rearm (and being close enough to do it in one turn) with what will happen to your teammates if you try. This is a pressure cooker scenario and it's a very difficult one to boot. The more pressure I exert: knocking the door down, getting you to use ammo recklessly, or otherwise manipulating your machines out of position the faster I'll break through. You can hold out but it's going to take a little caution and a lot of teamwork. TildeATH posted:Well you did set up a mission where there's nothing for the players to do in the first three turns in a game where turns take literal days to complete, so it shouldn't be a surprise that players want to do something like fire their guns. I did, and I know the desire to act is strong, but starting every enemy `Mech in firing range isn't a good answer either.  I'll stop teasing the players, I know why they're doing what they're doing. I'm not wanting to make them feel bad for doing it. I'm just trying to encourage them to consider what the consequences might be a few turns down the line (and then make whatever tough choices are necessary  ).
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Sep 24, 2015 05:19
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I don't really get crane destruction either, but whats done is done. Time to shoot enemies!
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Sep 24, 2015 06:04
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seriously though gently caress cranes
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Sep 24, 2015 06:13
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said the Hida daimyo.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:17
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I had meant to do this earlier, but not all the values were available and then when they were I forgot. GoonLance (Mech) BV: 10115 OpFor BV (so far): 21375 Now, I don't know what the BV assigned to the five turrets and the fortress and the potential reloads are (it's probably pretty high for the fortress walls alone), but typically PTN goes with a BV ratio of around 1.3-1.5 points of OpFor BV for each point of Goon BV (usually around 1.4 IIRC). The ratio of OpFor Units to GoonLance Units in this scenario is 2.113. What this means is that GoonLance is even more heavily outgunned this game than they usually are, and the only things you have to counterbalance that are your static defenses. For the love of Blake, use them. This is the best "don't jump out from behind the fortress walls" argument that I can muster. Also, pursuant to the "wait until you have units in the kill box" suggestion I made earlier: there is a small area, from Hex 1420 to Hex 1619 and extending five hexes south from that line, that is in Short Range for all three AC Turrets (excepting Hex 1622, which will break LOS on all of them by virtue of being too deep). If PTN is kind enough to move a unit into that kill box - especially if he goes to, say, 1424 or 1524 where some of the shots are going to be at rear armor - then I highly recommend you take advantage of it.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:23
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283 total bv for the turrets. Mobility is a huge part of bv plus they're not very durable.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:47
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Also they're mounting AC/5s.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:13
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Voyager I posted:Also they're mounting AC/5s. Yes, but the shittiest possible mech mounting 2x ac5s is still over 500 BV.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:23
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Hey, twin AC5s times three turrets is still a potential 30 points of damage if you can focus-fire with 'em. Nothing to sneer at, especially if you've blown some holes in armor with missiles first.
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Sep 24, 2015 10:36
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Hey, twin AC5s times three turrets is still a potential 30 points of damage if you can focus-fire with 'em. Nothing to sneer at, especially if you've blown some holes in armor with missiles first. The turrets, once active, are also however many turns of fire not directed solely at the players. I don't expect they'll last very long, but it will pull some fire off the fortress proper and might even make someone turn around to fire so the players can take back shots.
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Sep 24, 2015 11:30
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Fraction Jackson posted:I don't remember the Death Commandos firing at random trees or anything... Death Commandos did 9/11
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Sep 24, 2015 12:19
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Voyager I posted:I also remember you kicking a building every time there wasn't a mech in reach Not every time!
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Sep 24, 2015 13:24
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Hey, twin AC5s times three turrets is still a potential 30 points of damage if you can focus-fire with 'em. Nothing to sneer at, especially if you've blown some holes in armor with missiles first. Didn't PTN say they'll shoot at whatever's closest? Getting them to focus-fire could be difficult. Also if the players time them for backshots, any holes in the front won't really help the turrets.
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Sep 24, 2015 13:56
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I think their best use will be getting side crits on the vees.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:03
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MadGamer posted:
Yeah, but if I move, I'll have to hit on 10s instead of 9s, and can't even get a +1 move mod for their fire and still be in range. Once they start getting closer I'll start dancing along the wall.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:06
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apostateCourier posted:Not every time! That was probably the turn I learned you could kool-aid-man through a building.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:29
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T.G. Xarbala posted:seriously though gently caress cranes The Merry Marauder posted:said the Hida daimyo. This is not getting nearly enough love.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:54
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:GoonLance (Mech) BV: 10115 (until they breach the fort)
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Sep 25, 2015 18:57
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Endomorphic posted:How much BV is it worth to have invulnerable legs? Protection against mission-killing is worth a lot tbqh.
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Sep 25, 2015 19:33
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Endomorphic posted:How much BV is it worth to have invulnerable legs? That's why I said in that very same post that the fortress was doubtless worth a whole lot and the players should stay inside it, yes.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:40
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If they really want to slow down the OpFor in the middle of the AC kill zone, they should send a few trucks full of the Comstar civilians out to act as bait. If there's anything that will stop the Capellans in their tracks, it is the chance to shoot a truckload of unarmed civilians. Doubly so if they happen to be enemy civilians.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:34
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Zaodai posted:If they really want to slow down the OpFor in the middle of the AC kill zone, they should send a few trucks full of the Comstar civilians out to act as bait. I've missed you, Zaodai.
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Sep 26, 2015 15:11
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The last time the Capellans and ComStar had a War Crimes contest the Jihad happened. In the end the Taurian Concordat and Duchy of Regulus won.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:12
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PoptartsNinja posted:The last time the Capellans and ComStar had a War Crimes contest the Jihad happened. In the end the Taurian Concordat and Duchy of Regulus won. Welll The Taurians are undisputed masters of war criming so it is no surprise.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:18
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Don't mess with Space Texas. 
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Sep 26, 2015 21:37
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The Taurians have a lot of good reasons to go full war crime.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:46
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It's been a while... When was the last design contest? I'd like to read through the designs again.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:08
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Hob_Gadling posted:It's been a while... When was the last design contest? I'd like to read through the designs again. Pirate one IIRC. I think it was after King of the Pirates, although I don't remember exactly who won it. Personally I really liked the Banshee with identical weapons front and back.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:14
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Scintilla posted:Pirate one IIRC. I think it was after King of the Pirates, although I don't remember exactly who won it. Personally I really liked the Banshee with identical weapons front and back. I don't think anyone won it yet but here's the post http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3383329&pagenumber=1263#post439319211
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Sep 26, 2015 22:16
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