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Android Blues posted:This episode was fantastic and my only regret is that it looks like the Master won't be in next week's. Seriously, Clara and her together was so good. The ending basically implied we'd see more of her this season, so there's that at least. I haven't watched classic Who in a very long time, despite continuing to add DVDs to the growing pile. What should I watch? Inferno Ambassadors of Death Seeds of Doom
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Sep 27, 2015 06:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The ending basically implied we'd see more of her this season, so there's that at least. Of those three? The only thing that slows Inferno down is the weird ape people, otherwise it's just a fantastic classic. Ambassadors of Death is a great, super tightly paced serial by comparison, but isn't as good. It is, however, a hidden gem and well worth a watch. And Pick between those
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Sep 27, 2015 06:26
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Seeds of Doom is also good (but not as good as Seeds of Death!) so really you can't go wrong with any of those choices.... so watch Seeds of Death!
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Sep 27, 2015 06:41
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Has Davros having actual human eyes always been a Thing? As someone who hasn't watched OldWho and have only seen bits and pieces of the makeup work from that time, I figured they were going for a "he doesn't have those eyes anymore" thing. (and yeah, having watched it again, I'm doubling down on the fact that Davros's reaction to Gallifrey being returned was a genuine one, as is that whole bit in which the two of them share a laugh. Sure, he's manipulating him, but hey, The Doctor saved his people and regardless of anything else, that's a good thing he did  )
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Sep 27, 2015 06:54
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MisterBibs posted:Has Davros having actual human eyes always been a Thing? As someone who hasn't watched OldWho and have only seen bits and pieces of the makeup work from that time, I figured they were going for a "he doesn't have those eyes anymore" thing. It was implied, I believe, in Genesis that Davros was utterly blind, outside of his weird third eye. So the implication was always that he just didn't have eyes anymore. I wonder if his rib cage is still exposed.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:57
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This episode was okay and I like Capaldi but I'm not really a fan of everything in the universe being connected to the Doctor in some way. I miss when the Doctor was just a participant in the universe and not a force of nature demigod through which all things are possible.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:33
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I'd like to believe that Davros was being a bit sincere in his speech, even if overly melodramatic for the sake of the trap. It makes that scene much better IMO.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:48
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I think so, he's smart enough to be genuine in service of a lie. It works both ways too, I think the Doctor was being genuine in a lot of what he said even though he figured there was probably a 99% chance Davros was going to try and pull a fast one. That makes the scenes between them a lot stronger for me, because I thought a lot of what both characters was saying was heartfelt, even if they were both trying to outplay each other.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:00
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CobiWann posted:I liked this episode. Got a bit of a classic era vibe off of it with a lot of long scenes and small monologues. I liked the subtle reference to the HADS before the Tardis reconstituted itself.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:44
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Croatoan posted:These are the first Peter Capaldi episodes I've really liked but those sunglasses are dumb. Please lose them by the next episode. I wear sunglasses now. Sunglasses are cool.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:10
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Mokinokaro posted:Into the Dalek showed just that. They're cyborgs with a computer enforcing most of their thoughts. Clara's hookup just filtered instead of outright cancelling. The filter was silly but it didn't bother me. It's a Dalek telepathic hookup explicitly designed to work with Dalek brains. Plus she'd been in there less than an hour or so. The interface being a little buggy when a new brain is hooked up seems pretty plausible. She was also untrained and her thoughts were unfocused, so the interface was probably having to filter out a lot of mental 'noise' and un-dalek-like thoughts were filtered out as mistakes. Eventually she would have been able to exert more control over it, like Oswin Oswald did. I really liked Missy's throwaway line that the Cybermen suppress emotion and the Daleks channel it.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:24
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Didn't like it overall. Some good bits but like last week it was all just too disjointed. The whole "haha, see I knew what you were doing all along and it was actually my plan all this time do stop you in this particular way. Oh by the way the tardis can disintergrate and reform it's self now." Was just awful and rushed, and made no real sense. For people like me who dislike the sonic sunglasses, from next week's preview , they are back
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Sep 27, 2015 10:07
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What a great episode! Turns out, Moffat saved all the great moments and character interactions for part two. It's good that he doesn't let the old show shackle him down, as well. After this many years, it would probably be impossible to write an interesting episode while still respecting Doctor Who canon. Within the rules of the episode, the entire thing made perfect sense. That's all that really matters to me. Plot twists weren't really the focus at all this time, either. The Doctor seems to be in the dark about Davros' trap, but the audience knows right away what's going on. Similarly, Clara's "death" and Missy's trick are both only big reveals to the Doctor. The real tension comes from the difficult decisions he has to make. Best line: Doctor: I didn’t come here because I’m ashamed – a bit of shame never hurt anyone. I came here because you’re sick, and you asked. Capaldi doing donuts in Davros' chair while waving a gun and drinking tea was also really good.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:12
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I have spoilers for next weeks episode: [spoiler]The Great Intelligence uses tumblr and #doctorwho gifs to conquer the world.[spoiler]
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Sep 27, 2015 10:17
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Soothing Vapors posted:I could honestly watch a full season of Missy having adventures while her companion Clara tries desperately to dodge increasingly convoluted schemes to murder her This. Pretty funny to have Clara hanging upside down while sharpening a stick for no reason other than entertainment when she regained consciousness. RunAndGun posted:I wonder if Moffat made a mistake and he meant to have Missy say "Dwarf Star Alloy" instead of the stated "Dark Star Alloy". Dark Star is a much-loved cult space movie. Even if inadvertent, it's a funny reference.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:23
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EatinCake posted:"Can I get a stick" - Clara says jovially to the person who murdered her boyfriend, among many other innocent people three episodes ago. Not to mention four innocent people to make a point no less than about 20 minutes previously.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:26
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Rochallor posted:Last week's episode was just on the verge of toppling over, but ultimately held together. This one fell apart, but there were SO MANY good elements to it. They don't fit together in the slightest, but already I'm liking this episode more because the great bits are all memorable and the clumsy structure is forgotten immediately. That's what they're going for, it's why I hate it echoplex posted:You will of course note that the video screen there has a subtle overlay of a regeneration effect over it, because we care about the details. I'm really really sorry echoplex, but when I read this I forgot you worked on it and thought you were going for satire (because approximately 0% of the non-prop bits of the episode were "about the details")
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Sep 27, 2015 10:57
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What was wrong with it? It was well written, well acted, funny and fantastically directed. What more is there to ask?
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Sep 27, 2015 11:09
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EatinCake posted:I'd completely forgotten he'd died that way initially. That said, Missy's still portrayed as a murdering psychopath, and it's still incredibly jarring to me that the hero I'm supposed to root for is so cozy with her. Levity, maybe. Camaraderie? Jarring. In the sewer/graveyard Clara says that they "are not a team". She's only with Missy because she has no other choice to safely get out of this situation and to the Doctor, even if Missy messes with Clara.
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Sep 27, 2015 11:09
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cargohills posted:What was wrong with it? It was well written, well acted, funny and fantastically directed. What more is there to ask? This one was a much more fun episode and much better written. My favourite moment had to be the Doctor wheeling out in Davros' chair and declaring "admit it, this is your worst nightmare!  "Jerusalem posted:I think so, he's smart enough to be genuine in service of a lie. It works both ways too, I think the Doctor was being genuine in a lot of what he said even though he figured there was probably a 99% chance Davros was going to try and pull a fast one. It's what makes the Doctor. It's Davros and almost certainly a trap, but if there's a chance, a glimmer of a possibility that it might be genuine, then he's gonna cling to it for all it's worth. With a backup plan for the moment the trap falls. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 11:30
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Mr Beens posted:Didn't like it overall. Some good bits but like last week it was all just too disjointed. I love that apparently now the TARDIS is actively in on the joke. 'Missy and Clara teleported away instead of being killed, guess I'll just play along and atomize myself until the Doctor needs me.'
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Sep 27, 2015 11:44
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This one was a much more fun episode and much better written. My favourite moment had to be the Doctor wheeling out in Davros' chair and declaring "admit it, this is your worst nightmare! Oh, right, I thought he was talking about this episode. Yeah, the last one wasn't quite as good.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This one was a much more fun episode and much better written. My favourite moment had to be the Doctor wheeling out in Davros' chair and declaring "admit it, this is your worst nightmare! I feel like a lot of these two episodes were probably filled in by Capaldi. Not in full, the gist of the plot was probably there, but I feel like Capaldi had a lot of input on seeing scenes like this happen. This is kind of a weird two-parter, structurally. Last week's episode was one that really needed its second part to complete the story, but this episode barely needed the previous at all. I mean it does need it, if only for context, but it almost works as a standalone just because so few questions it raises were answered in the first. That's not a bad thing, but it does enforce that feeling that this might have been planned as a movie-length opener. I think my favorite part, doing no disservice to the rest of the episode, was The Only Other Chair On Skaro.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:14
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Angela Christine posted:I love that apparently now the TARDIS is actively in on the joke. 'Missy and Clara teleported away instead of being killed, guess I'll just play along and atomize myself until the Doctor needs me.' I'd take it as more that the Doctor has had 1,100-odd years to do something about the Daleks trying to kill his TARDIS if they ever got their suction cups on it again. Cleretic posted:I think my favorite part, doing no disservice to the rest of the episode, was The Only Other Chair On Skaro. I was astounded that they got such an amazing joke out of Davros.  .
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Sep 27, 2015 12:36
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Cleretic posted:This is kind of a weird two-parter, structurally. Last week's episode was one that really needed its second part to complete the story, but this episode barely needed the previous at all. I mean it does need it, if only for context, but it almost works as a standalone just because so few questions it raises were answered in the first. That's not a bad thing, but it does enforce that feeling that this might have been planned as a movie-length opener. Yeah, the way it's paced and structured, it didn't really need to be a two-parter. It feels like they wasted nearly a full episode on stuff that doesn't matter. It definitely seems like reception to the episodes as a pair, is very mixed. Davros' delivery on that joke was great. Probably my favourite in that episode. Neddy Seagoon posted:I was astounded that they got such an amazing joke out of Davros. The biggest difference between Davros and the Daleks is that, unlike them, he possesses a sense of humour. It's normally quite dry or dark depending on the story.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:48
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Cleretic posted:I feel like a lot of these two episodes were probably filled in by Capaldi. Not in full, the gist of the plot was probably there, but I feel like Capaldi had a lot of input on seeing scenes like this happen. BBC are repeating the episodes back to back as one movie this afternoon.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:13
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saucerman posted:In the sewer/graveyard Clara says that they "are not a team". She's only with Missy because she has no other choice to safely get out of this situation and to the Doctor, even if Missy messes with Clara. Also prophecies are dumb and it's annoying when they're used to make something try to have weight. Vanderdeath posted:This episode was okay and I like Capaldi but I'm not really a fan of everything in the universe being connected to the Doctor in some way. I miss when the Doctor was just a participant in the universe and not a force of nature demigod through which all things are possible.  Looking forward to more one off adventures tho. Capaldi is such a delight.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:31
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Pesky Splinter posted:The biggest difference between Davros and the Daleks is that, unlike them, he possesses a sense of humour. It's normally quite dry or dark depending on the story. "But did you tell anyone that they might be eating their own relatives?" "Certainly not!!! That might have created what I believe is termed...consumer resistance." Join the Revelation Fan Club today, and don't worry if you previously let your membership lapse: we are all past masters at the double entry.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:44
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I liked this episode. Felt a little more emotionally complex than usual and also far less bogged down with showing off silly ideas. I hope that the other two parters end up feeling this "in form" for me. I don't get not seeing Clara as being resentful of Missy. Clara's trying to survive. She throws in barbs about Missy being a killer but she kind of needs to have a time lord around, also being as useful and smart as possible extends her survival time around missy. Also now that we know how much regeneration energy matters, with Dildoctor counting as a regeneration, I wonder how many extra lives Doctor has now. We don't know how many he had to start after he got uploaded with new ones, but it can't be an insignificant amount of energy to rejuvenate the entire dalek race. Feels like they're just being as arbitrary as possible and will just make the count "one" when they want things to be as serious as possible.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:49
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Didn't we already have Timelord-Dalek hybrids in Daleks in Manhattan? Or do Timelord-Dalek-Pigmen not count?
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Sep 27, 2015 13:49
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Didn't we already have Timelord-Dalek hybrids in Daleks in Manhattan? The basis for them was human. This was an attempt at a straight blending of Time Lord and Dalek DNA.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:56
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cargohills posted:Oh, right, I thought he was talking about this episode. Yeah, the last one wasn't quite as good. I was. It's gone Full Joss Whedon, what with the jokes like "the only other chair on Skaro". The joke was well delivered but contributed badly to the tonal whiplash that infested the episodes. Like the scene where Davros is all repentant - if it's genuine then the episode has 100% not earned it, if it's not then it's pointless outside of the moment. So much of the episode was pointless outside of when it was on screen.
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Sep 27, 2015 14:03
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This was an attempt at a straight blending of Time Lord and Dalek DNA. It's been done. 
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Sep 27, 2015 14:06
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And just like Whedon's Marvel stuff, even the things that were supposedly deeply connected to the continuity were pointless except in the moment. The poo poo about the Dalek/Time Lord Prophecy, for example. After spending all that effort on making the Doctor just a guy having adventures, the last few episodes have doubled down on the "Doctor is the most important and amazing person in the universe" thing again. The nanosecond laser beam teleporter nonsense? When has the Doctor ever done anything like that? It's not a coincidence that the best episodes of Doctor Who in the last few years have been ones where the Doctor is just a pretty clever man who turns up somewhere where Adventure Is To Be Had, with the only real exception for me being The Doctor's Wife from Moffat's tenure. (In fact, having a think about it, there are maybe half a dozen stories in total from Doctor Who that have the story about more than just A Pretty Clever Man Who Turns Up Somewhere Adventure Is To Be Had that I really enjoy - Wife, Human Nature, Dalek, Curse of Fenric, Remembrance, Genesis and Logopolis sort of, last two episodes of The War Games)
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Sep 27, 2015 14:19
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I was. It's gone Full Joss Whedon, what with the jokes like "the only other chair on Skaro". The joke was well delivered but contributed badly to the tonal whiplash that infested the episodes. What do you mean by the scene not being earned?
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Sep 27, 2015 14:26
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cargohills posted:What do you mean by the scene not being earned? In my opinion unless you're running a heavily serialised show like The Wire or Babylon 5 you need to be able to justify why a scene and the character interactions within it happen and are important only with reference to the current story (and maybe in terms of the series long arcs if you really must, but I've very rarely been satisfied with them, certainly not in Doctor Who. The second series of Buffy, to keep referencing Whedon, I think does it well because it flows and develops and isn't just foreshadowing for the final story). For comparison, and while I don't like the episodes overall, Davies did really really well in Utopia, The Sound of Drums and The Last of the Time Lords to build up the Master, why he was important, why we should care. None of that groundwork was done in the latest two parter, instead spending most of the running time doing little vignettes for giffing. The only nod to it was the little clip-based refresher course Moffat did of "Here's why you should care about Davros!" which is obviously a completely wank way of doing it. Make me care, don't just tell me that I should.
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Sep 27, 2015 14:38
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I'd imagine most viewers of Doctor Who would care about Davros already, no?
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Sep 27, 2015 14:49
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Yeah, I doubt an introduction more complex than: "the dude who created the daleks" is really necessary. He is also not very repentant?
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Sep 27, 2015 14:54
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Just getting around to watching it now. The whole sequence with Clara in the Dalek and the voice manipulator seems to have triggered every sperg reflex I have. Especially the bit about shouting "Exterminate!" being how they reload. gently caress you, Moffat, you loving hack. If you dare make that canon I will vivisect you. Uuuuuuuuuuuurrrgh. Is it weird that, while I enjoyed the previous episode a lot in the heat of the moment, I came away feeling it was pretty bad? And the more I thought about it afterwards the less I liked it? To the point where, a week later, I now despise the whole thing and that's just carried straight through to this one? MrL_JaKiri posted:And just like Whedon's Marvel stuff, even the things that were supposedly deeply connected to the continuity were pointless except in the moment. The poo poo about the Dalek/Time Lord Prophecy, for example. After spending all that effort on making the Doctor just a guy having adventures, the last few episodes have doubled down on the "Doctor is the most important and amazing person in the universe" thing again. The nanosecond laser beam teleporter nonsense? When has the Doctor ever done anything like that?  This show is drunk on itself, and it is poisoning everything good about it. e: These scenes with the Doctor and Davros together are really, really good though. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 14:56
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Overnights are out. The panicky may wish to go sit on the throne before they read this. At the very least it's worth going "hmmmm" over. 3.7 million, a 16.6% share. This is the first sub-4 million overnight figure since 3.6 million for Part 3 of Battlefield, almost exactly 26 years ago to the day. The show was also 5th for Saturday, being beaten obviously by the rugby (which it was directly competing with) and by Strictly, but also was pipped by a short nose by Casualty and the evening news, which it usually beats handily. This is potentially significant because I recall a long conversation on the old Outpost Gallifrey forum before NewWho came back, during which someone in a position to know said something along the lines of (yes, there's a lot of IIRCs and conditionals in there) "Producers these days would sell their family to consistently get 4 million on the overnights and an AI over 75; as long as NewWho gets both of those it'll be renewed forever." Of course that was a long time ago, but it's absolutely not good news for the show to be pulling in similar figures to Casualty. Consolidated rating for episode 1 drops in midweek; that's when we really find out whether there's a serious cause for concern.
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