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Comte de Saint-Germain
Mar 26, 2001

Snouk but and snouk ben,
I find the smell of an earthly man,
Be he living, or be he dead,
His heart this night shall kitchen my bread.

Jinnigan posted:

I finally beat the game and I love it, a lot. But did anyone else get incredibly bored in the first act? Like, to the point where you wandered off to other video games? I played the entirety of Fallout New Vegas (for the first time!!) in between dropping W3 and picking it back up. I think it's because you go entirely too long before meeting up with any persistent and major characters. I mean, the Baron and Keira and so on are cool and all, but it's really not comparable to the hook of finally finding Ciri or getting into messes with Triss and Yenn.

Actually, I guess that's one of my major pet peeves about the quest design in W3: it's far away and above the rest of RPG quest design, but god drat I wish there were less quests in which you're interrupted on your way to doing something.

(I'm not a professional game designer so please bear with me as I try to express what I mean)

I guess the basic "thing" of story, game, and quest design is that the story gives you a goal, then a problem en route to that goal, and then the gameplay comes from resolving the problem? I think the storylines around Cerys and Hjallmar were really well-designed, because you directly help them out with their goals instead of chasing wumpus butts on the other side of the isles. And, the story and information you learn through doing their quests also sets the foundation, the characterizations, for the next chunk of the story: choosing to support either Cerys or Hjallmar (or not) as the next ruler of vikings Skellige.

But it's frustrating when the gameplay is overcoming a goal that has no direct correlation to that story. There's also a lot of times in W3 where the problem you're presented is really just an interruption, and doesn't move forward any of your understanding or story. One example is the dwarves in the Isle of Mists: what does finding the three dwarves have to do with Ciri's condition, her fate, the danger she's in, or what's next? It's just a bit of clever filler, for the purpose of ...? Not making it too easy to get to Ciri, I guess. I don't really know if the game would be damaged by taking the quest out. But for me the worst is the entire Whoreson Junior plotline, which is just egregiously meandering. In order to find Ciri I have to find Dandelion which means I have to find Whoreson and to do that I have to help Djikstra who leads me to Roche and then I meet Radovid who finally, finally tells me where Junior is. Somewhere in the middle of this is where I lost interest and went to play other games. It's just too long, too many turtles down, too convoluted, without any real interaction with my actual goal: just nested interruptions within other interruptions. It didn't feel like I was accomplishing anything or moving anywhere, just getting mired in a neverending plotline. Or, think about it this way: it's 5 degrees of separation (or quests of separation, if you like) between my actual goal (finding Ciri) and actually getting anywhere with it.

It got better after that, and once I actually got to Ciri, the game had me thoroughly engrossed, because I felt like I was actually accomplishing things, building allies, preparing for war, etc etc. But it took a looooooooong time to get there.

This is the difference between "and then..." and "therefore" storytelling, and you are right, "and then..." gets boring fast. I think our Baron storyline was excellent, but it doesn't really work as well with the main story as it should.

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The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
I can't think of anything I'd change with the Baron storyline. Novigrad goes a bit long and far afield, I think, but not that one.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



The Sharmat posted:

Oh God, this. I like starting over but it being Northern Realms every time is so boring. By the time the other decks are playable by Northern Realms deck is godlike and there's no reason to play the others. Yes, I know, I could do it anyway, but I dislike having to deliberately cripple myself.

Nilfgaard deck owns :colbert:

Shame their best ability is acquired after you beat the tournament and at that point there isn't anyone that can challenge your gwent dominance.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
Exactly.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.
Need an NG+ mode.



New Gwent +

Ohthehugemanatee
Oct 18, 2005
Question for those who've played this: If I loved Witcher 1&2 for their story and relatively tight gameplay but absolutely hated Dragon Age 3 for its open world MMO-like feel, is this worth picking up?

I thought the Witcher 2 jobs were fine in moderation but I'm leery of open world games because there tends to be buckets of content, 5% of which is amazing and 95% of which is tedious filler. People who grew up on MMOs seem to do fine with this stuff because they can spot the garbage, but it took me a while in DA 3 to realize I was supposed to be ignoring most of what the game was suggesting I do and that never stopped driving me nuts.

How similar to DA 3 is this?

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

It's not. Even the side quests are unique and interesting. It's my RPG of forever, finally beating BG2.

Xerxes17
Feb 17, 2011

If you liked W1 and W2, you're going to loving love W3.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.
I'm just looking into the season pass for this on GoG and they want $30.29 for it, but the Hearts of Stone DLC is only $10.39.

Is the second DLC (Blood and Wine) going to be more than $20 or something, or is there more stuff that the season pass will give you? It's just that the description for the pass only lists those 2 items.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

It's expected for Blood and Wine to be between $20 and $30 since it's much longer than the first expansion.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.
Ah, cool, though it looks like i get another $2 off my next purchase (some regional pricing fairness thing) if i buy them individually.

If it's just going to be a couple of quid i think i can live with just getting them separately. Besides, by the time i actually get around to finishing the main game after i'm done with this over stuff i'm playing first, the first one might even be discounted in some way.

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

Ohthehugemanatee posted:

Question for those who've played this: If I loved Witcher 1&2 for their story and relatively tight gameplay but absolutely hated Dragon Age 3 for its open world MMO-like feel, is this worth picking up?

I thought the Witcher 2 jobs were fine in moderation but I'm leery of open world games because there tends to be buckets of content, 5% of which is amazing and 95% of which is tedious filler. People who grew up on MMOs seem to do fine with this stuff because they can spot the garbage, but it took me a while in DA 3 to realize I was supposed to be ignoring most of what the game was suggesting I do and that never stopped driving me nuts.

How similar to DA 3 is this?

It's like the complete opposite of Inquisition. DA3 is basically a single player MMO filled with shallow and repetitive collect, fetch, kill quests. Most of us in this thread are still collectively losing our poo poo over how Witcher 3 manages to be both huge and high-quality throughout. There is very little filler and even the simplest quests are fully voice-acted and animated.

I like this take on Witcher 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIKbTiuJ9A
I think the thread consensus is that the writing, world-building, and immersiveness of Witcher 3 ranks among the best of all time.

Edit: there is a good 100+ hours of content in a Witcher 3 playthrough, even not being completionist. It's enormous.

Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Sep 26, 2015

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Pellisworth posted:

It's like the complete opposite of Inquisition. DA3 is basically a single player MMO filled with shallow and repetitive collect, fetch, kill quests. Most of us in this thread are still collectively losing our poo poo over how Witcher 3 manages to be both huge and high-quality throughout. There is very little filler and even the simplest quests are fully voice-acted and animated.

I like this take on Witcher 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIKbTiuJ9A
I think the thread consensus is that the writing, world-building, and immersiveness of Witcher 3 ranks among the best of all time.

Yeah this disclaimer here is to ignore "treasure hunts", since those are really repetitive go find the chest bullshit. All of the actual quests are really great.

(Treasure hunts are different from Witcher Gear hunts, right?)

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

Snak posted:

Yeah this disclaimer here is to ignore "treasure hunts", since those are really repetitive go find the chest bullshit. All of the actual quests are really great.

(Treasure hunts are different from Witcher Gear hunts, right?)

There are a bunch of quests where you fined a note somewhere (usually a corpse) that mentions a treasure nearby. Then you spend a couple minutes finding the chest. There's not really much to them.

There's also the Smuggler's Caches on the map (especially in Skellige) that are just generic loot.

Those are a pretty small amount of content overall and aren't really obnoxious unless you're sailing around Skellige trying to 100% all the ?s on the map.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Pellisworth posted:

There are a bunch of quests where you fined a note somewhere (usually a corpse) that mentions a treasure nearby. Then you spend a couple minutes finding the chest. There's not really much to them.

There's also the Smuggler's Caches on the map (especially in Skellige) that are just generic loot.

Those are a pretty small amount of content overall and aren't really obnoxious unless you're sailing around Skellige trying to 100% all the ?s on the map.

Yeah but I'm trying to be specific since the question about if there's a lot of content that is boring mmo stuff, and he they weren't good at filtering that out. These quests you are referring to are called Treasure Hunts and are listed in a different section of the quest log (under "Treasure Hunts") so it's super easy to avoid them since they don't show up in your main Quests list.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.


Ohthehugemanatee posted:

Question for those who've played this: If I loved Witcher 1&2 for their story and relatively tight gameplay but absolutely hated Dragon Age 3 for its open world MMO-like feel, is this worth picking up?

I thought the Witcher 2 jobs were fine in moderation but I'm leery of open world games because there tends to be buckets of content, 5% of which is amazing and 95% of which is tedious filler. People who grew up on MMOs seem to do fine with this stuff because they can spot the garbage, but it took me a while in DA 3 to realize I was supposed to be ignoring most of what the game was suggesting I do and that never stopped driving me nuts.

How similar to DA 3 is this?
When you play Witcher 3 it becomes obvious that the developers made it their point to fight the filler effect of open world games. That's not something they achieved by accident but by deliberate gameplay decisions. So you should really jump on a game which directly addresses what you're afraid of. The only exception are some of the loot locations (smuggler caches) but it's something you will notice yourself without mmo experience. Also even when I see that the game isn't perfect in every single way and can understand where people have problems with it - I would never compare it to DA3 or Skyrim as those games are shallow in comparison, seriously they're tiers below this title. Those problems I mentioned however were way more frustrating in Witcher 1+2 so as a person who liked those two games you won't even feel them.

Comte de Saint-Germain
Mar 26, 2001

Snouk but and snouk ben,
I find the smell of an earthly man,
Be he living, or be he dead,
His heart this night shall kitchen my bread.

Pellisworth posted:

It's like the complete opposite of Inquisition. DA3 is basically a single player MMO filled with shallow and repetitive collect, fetch, kill quests. Most of us in this thread are still collectively losing our poo poo over how Witcher 3 manages to be both huge and high-quality throughout. There is very little filler and even the simplest quests are fully voice-acted and animated.

I like this take on Witcher 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIKbTiuJ9A
I think the thread consensus is that the writing, world-building, and immersiveness of Witcher 3 ranks among the best of all time.

Edit: there is a good 100+ hours of content in a Witcher 3 playthrough, even not being completionist. It's enormous.

One of the things alluded to but not specifically mentioned in this video is that one of the real rewards of having good scenes is that you can have a really long game that's rewarding even if you don't finish it. Some long games, like MGSV, and classics like BG2, benefit from this; I will probably never finish either of those games, but they are both amazing. I think this is one of those things that DA:I doesn't get quite right; it's got cool scenes, but they are all in the service of much much longer stories that all build to a cresendo, if you give up before you get there there's never any payoff.

If you only play Witcher 3 for 20 hours, that 20 hours will be satisfying and your time won't feel wasted. That's the goal anyway.

PS don't tell any other studios about our secret ok

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

I'm really really looking forward to what their new scifi game is going to be like.

RenegadeStyle1
Jun 7, 2005

Baby Come Back
There were a few choices in this game that seem to jump really harshly, the one I can remember when you have to fight that cat school Witcher and when you are talking at first he said he killed the villagers because they sneak attacked him I said something about how he didn't have to kill all of them and he just jumped straight to "WELL I GUESS YOU WANT TO KILL ME THEN HUH LETS FIGHT" like dang dude calm down.

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

Just your friendly neighborhood photobomb raptor.



RenegadeStyle1 posted:

There were a few choices in this game that seem to jump really harshly, the one I can remember when you have to fight that cat school Witcher and when you are talking at first he said he killed the villagers because they sneak attacked him I said something about how he didn't have to kill all of them and he just jumped straight to "WELL I GUESS YOU WANT TO KILL ME THEN HUH LETS FIGHT" like dang dude calm down.

That one you can at least justify as him being batshit crazy .

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

I'm having an interesting day with Wyverns.

First this happens:



Followed immediately by me getting stuck in some kind of infinite jumping glitch and dying over and over again until I closed the game and reopened it.

And now this motherfucker



has chased me way across the map after I walked past his nest one time. Wyverns :argh:

This game is extremely cool.

(I've been avoiding this thread because the game has been out for ages and I figured there'd be lots of open plot discussion and I wanted to avoid getting spoiled. Am I right to assume this or are people still generally using tags?)

E: Dude chased me all the way to Oxenfurt before he got bored.

Regy Rusty fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 27, 2015

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
I just became Champion of Champions. I nearly died when the Bear walked out, because I was so busy laughing at Geralts 'poo poo.' that it nearly took my head off.

Does anyone know what the Errant Troll's name is about?

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Shockeh posted:

I just became Champion of Champions. I nearly died when the Bear walked out, because I was so busy laughing at Geralts 'poo poo.' that it nearly took my head off.

Does anyone know what the Errant Troll's name is about?

I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe you should go see for yourself?

Jinnigan
Feb 12, 2007

We shall pay him a visit. There will be a picnic. Tea shall be served.

Ohthehugemanatee posted:

Question for those who've played this: If I loved Witcher 1&2 for their story and relatively tight gameplay but absolutely hated Dragon Age 3 for its open world MMO-like feel, is this worth picking up?

I thought the Witcher 2 jobs were fine in moderation but I'm leery of open world games because there tends to be buckets of content, 5% of which is amazing and 95% of which is tedious filler. People who grew up on MMOs seem to do fine with this stuff because they can spot the garbage, but it took me a while in DA 3 to realize I was supposed to be ignoring most of what the game was suggesting I do and that never stopped driving me nuts.

How similar to DA 3 is this?

There's not a single filler or "fetch bear butt" quest. None of the extra-quest stuff is tedious or filler. All of it has well-designed dialogue and setting. You will always feel like the quest you stumbled on is a plausible part of the world. Hell, you can walk around every town and ask "But what do they eat?" and there's enough setting and worldbuilding to actually answer that question on your own.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax

Comte de Saint-Germain posted:

PS don't tell any other studios about our secret ok
They're probably not interested because your way take a shitload of manhours and Bethesda already sells way better based purely on name recognition and marketing.

Jinnigan posted:

Hell, you can walk around every town and ask "But what do they eat?" and there's enough setting and worldbuilding to actually answer that question on your own.
The answer to that question in Velen is very depressing (grubs, berries, and surviving household pets).

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

Snak posted:

I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe you should go see for yourself?

He tells you after you beat him, it just doesn't make any sense. Like a reference I'm supposed to get, but I don't.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.


Jinnigan posted:

Hell, you can walk around every town and ask "But what do they eat?" and there's enough setting and worldbuilding to actually answer that question on your own.
At one point I wanted to create a big Novigrad analysis post because the city is a recreation of a fully functioning medieval city to the point that it's the most realistic city in gaming. Every city district has a realistic function, they interwine like they would in a real city. Many of its parts aren't even visitted during quests but they're fully depicted, it's crazy.

Beeez
May 28, 2012

Palpek posted:

At one point I wanted to create a big Novigrad analysis post because the city is a recreation of a fully functioning medieval city to the point that it's the most realistic city in gaming. Every city district has a realistic function, they interwine like they would in a real city. Many of its parts aren't even visitted during quests but they're fully depicted, it's crazy.

I want you to do this. I've picked up on some of it but I'd like to see a full analysis.

10 Beers
May 21, 2005

Shit! I didn't bring a knife.

Beeez posted:

I want you to do this. I've picked up on some of it but I'd like to see a full analysis.

Seconded.

Power Khan
Aug 20, 2011

by Fritz the Horse
The temple is really interesting, though there are no quests that I've seen yet that show more about it? If you head to the backside, some guy left his slippers up there, before he threw himself off the cliff. Btw, there's also some interesting stuff in the back of the var Attre residency.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
Isn't the depth of detail partly due to Novigrad being modeled after an existing actual city? Thought it was a Romanian town or something?

Is anyone else peeved out by the sheer number of doors that can't be unlocked and boxes / baskets you probably can't get to? An example is Keira's hut with all the stuff near the roof. There's no place to jump up to keep your view within reach and you can't jump and loot at the same time with the UI pop-up delay I saw.

This is a bad game if you're a completionist because you will go crazy.

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

necrobobsledder posted:

Isn't the depth of detail partly due to Novigrad being modeled after an existing actual city? Thought it was a Romanian town or something?

Is anyone else peeved out by the sheer number of doors that can't be unlocked and boxes / baskets you probably can't get to? An example is Keira's hut with all the stuff near the roof. There's no place to jump up to keep your view within reach and you can't jump and loot at the same time with the UI pop-up delay I saw.

This is a bad game if you're a completionist because you will go crazy.

It was quite a while back but one poster said it was really similar to the Polish city of Gdansk and specifically the crane at the docks is a replica of the real world one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gda%C5%84sk

I have no idea why you would try to loot every container, it's all just random loot except for quest stuff and witcher gear schematics.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.


As a person who actually lived in Gdansk I can tell you that a few of the buildings are based on it but that's it, the entire city structure is different except for the crane standing by the river I guess. 99% of the other buildings are based on other source material.

The Deadly Hume
May 26, 2004

Let's get a little crazy. Let's have some fun.

Pellisworth posted:

I have no idea why you would try to loot every container, it's all just random loot except for quest stuff and witcher gear schematics.
That last extra crown you get from a vendor from picking up that broken rake might be just what you need to get that one nugget of dimeritium you need to make your sweet mastercrafted witcher armour.

Beeez
May 28, 2012

The Deadly Hume posted:

That last extra crown you get from a vendor from picking up that broken rake might be just what you need to get that one nugget of dimeritium you need to make your sweet mastercrafted witcher armour.

This guy gets it.

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...
Novigrad is way too sparsely populated for what the population is supposed to be though. Especially on the consoles, it feels like the engine wasn't up to it.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.
Grimey Drawer

Spite posted:

Novigrad is way too sparsely populated for what the population is supposed to be though. Especially on the consoles, it feels like the engine wasn't up to it.

I just assumed most people were hiding indoors. What with a literal witchhunt going on.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax

Snak posted:

I just assumed most people were hiding indoors. What with a literal witchhunt going on.

Also the city is likely to be besieged or stormed soon, and everyone knows it.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.


I felt there were a lot of people in the city on PC. Is the console version different in that regard or something?

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grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.
I just wanted to say that this game has the best drunk quests in the history of bideo jaming. Share embarrasing stories and dress up in your girlfriend's clothes all day erry day.

That is all.

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