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Tekopo posted:The bidding isn't really that difficult though? I dunno, I never struggled with it, even when I first got started into 18XX. You either put an 'interest bid' on something or buy from the top. Yeah, but you play heavy wargames, and you probably read the rulebook yourself. I have to teach this orally over a lunch break, to at least one guy who regularly forgets the rules of Dominion. Plus, classic buy-bid means you need to understand what the private companies are worth (special abilities and all) before you've even played the main game. Whereas Mayfair version, you just bid for pick order over pre-selected pods, which is easier to muddle through over a sandwich. Harder to completely screw yourself before the game even begins.
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Sep 28, 2015 06:55
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Gutter Owl posted:Any particular reason to favor it over the Mayfair version, besides purism? As far as I can tell, there are only two major differences. You want to learn the game people actually play and the one with 30 years of stress testing. Using the training wheels may make the game go over-long and mean that people are functionally elminated and still have to sit through your multiple sessions. Bankruptcy ending the game is the solution to this problem. In fact a quick bankruptcy is probably a better learning aid than any of the new stuff. You learn what not to do very quickly. The privates are simple. Tell them not to bid on the B&O and make sure the PRR goes for about $225. Tekopo encouraged me to do the bidding in my first game rather than distribution and it's really good advice. Gutter Owl posted:Yeah, but you play heavy wargames, and you probably read the rulebook yourself. I have to teach this orally over a lunch break, to at least one guy who regularly forgets the rules of Dominion. Also I recommend using poker chips for the bank if you can.
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Sep 28, 2015 07:36
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cenotaph posted:The privates are simple. Tell them not to bid on the B&O and make sure the PRR goes for about $225. Tekopo encouraged me to do the bidding in my first game rather than distribution and it's really good advice. Can you explain why? I'm haven't figured out how to dissolve the brick of rules* into actual strategy yet, so I don't really know why you'd want to avoid bidding on B&O. A 20% share and free par-setting looked pretty good to my newbie eyes. *(Yeah, yeah, make fun of me. COIN and Mage Knight are my usual upper rules complexity limit, Magic Realm and High Frontier notwithstanding.)
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Sep 28, 2015 08:13
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B&O is kind of trappy because most newbies don't know how to use it right and overbid for it. The ideal price for the B&O is more or less the price it actually starts out at in the bid. It can get shut out quickly from even reaching NY as well. The best way to run it is to make as much revenue as possible in the shortest amount of time (you can run like 3 2-trains from it on OR 2 if you are willing to take the risk) and then dump it.
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Sep 28, 2015 08:21
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Gutter Owl posted:Can you explain why? I'm haven't figured out how to dissolve the brick of rules* into actual strategy yet, so I don't really know why you'd want to avoid bidding on B&O. A 20% share and free par-setting looked pretty good to my newbie eyes. I should have said the Camden and Amboy instead of the PRR, but it gives you a free share of the PRR meaning it is drastically undercosted. You basically get $67-$100 back plus the amount of money you get for selling the private to a company, plus the income. Getting it at face value is essentially too much free money. I don't remember why the $225 amount is in the right ballpark, at least in a four player game. It may go for less with five, and six (from what I hear) is almost a different game because people have to cooperate to get companies going right from the start and are really caught up in each others' liabilities. The B&O is bad because you can't sell it to a company for cash. It closes as soon as the B&O floats. So essentially you're paying $200 for $200 worth of stock plus a round or two of income, and that's if you set the par value to $100. You may have to par it lower to get it floated at all, depending on your holdings and if someone else want to help you float it. I haven't seen it much in my games but I hear a strategy is to avoid floating the company for as long as possible to maximize the income from the private. Related to this, the back of the president's shares show how much money is needed to float a company for a given par value. It's extremely important for people to know how much money they want to have left after bidding.
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Sep 28, 2015 08:27
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Do I reroll for the bid or do I take it as it comes?
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Sep 28, 2015 08:55
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I want to get Mad King Ludwig but only the first edition is available here instead of the gorgeous looking Polish edition.
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Sep 28, 2015 09:08
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bowmore posted:I played The Game of Life: Twists and Turns and I much preferred it to Firefly, fluxx and munchkin I just played my 5th game of Fluxx with my neighbors and housemates. They have really taken a shine to the game and ask to play it now, as opposed to every "good" game I threw at them. I guess it must be "just fun".
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Sep 28, 2015 12:24
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I find it incredibly boring and tiresome but to each their own
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Sep 28, 2015 12:35
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Archipelago Archipelago is still my favorite game. I had my second-best "worst loss" yesterday where I ended the game early and only lost because I gave a player some money as good faith only to have him win 'most money' both as a score and for tie-breaking (the first worst being intentionally throwing the game thinking I was behind only to find out the Separist was in play and I would of won if the round ended*). It has to be that this game combines a heavy engine-buildy game with a lot of direct player action (with incredibly little direct conflict!) and bluffing/deduction/cooperation. In order to play it well it doesn't require just mathematical strategy but also negotiation to a degree you just don't see. I like to think of it as building an engine and then driving that engine around with to negotiate both the board and the players. Short game can definitely suffer from lucking in on objectives due to there being fairly little time to work out who might have what condition. And the game is remarkably insensitive. But drat, Archipelago makes the strangest, most fascinating games. *Countblanc was the Separatist in that worst loss of mine. I can't believe I fell for it.
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Sep 28, 2015 12:49
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Rutibex posted:I just played my 5th game of Fluxx with my neighbors and housemates. They have really taken a shine to the game and ask to play it now, as opposed to every "good" game I threw at them. I guess it must be "just fun". Turns out people have terrible taste. A common game in Denmark is "nailboard" where you get a block of wood, a hammer and some nails, and whoever gets their nail in the furthest/with fewest hits wins. This game is by all measures terrible, and yet people enjoy it more than, say, Agricola. A similar thing can be said about movies, music and all sorts of crap. "Just fun" is a pretty good metric if you want to completely disregard any technical merits of the product, and I mean that in a sincere way. Cards Against Humanity and Die Hard: Mega Hard (or whatever stupid action movie) have entertained way more people than niche products like Dungeon Lords and Der guter Mensch (or again, whatever, I don't know movies), because they're simple, don't require thinking and can be enjoyed by anyone. Dungeon Lords and Der guter Mensch require thinking and effort, and reward the experiencer with deeper meaning of some sort in exchange. We are nerds who appreciate craftsmanship, especially well constructed mechanics that allow choice, but a lot of people just want the motions without the thinking, which pretty much means less actual choice is better. Serious movie dudes want to leave thinking "what does it actually mean to be a good person?" or some poo poo, whereas filthy casuals just want to see that Bruce Willis was actually a hero and beat the bad guys. Why even play Fluxx/watch Die Hard? It's less effort than just talking, and you get to use the experience for talking afterwards. Yes, I know that I am arguing with Rutibex, but I actually do it because I think he has a point. Also yes, Die Hard has many cool feats of technique with exploding cars I guess, that's beside the point.
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Sep 28, 2015 13:40
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Hey, the original Die Hard is the Carcassone of action movies.
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Sep 28, 2015 13:51
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Never attribute to good design what can easily be explained with poor taste.
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Sep 28, 2015 13:58
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A nice article on BGG about the development behind the first Roll for the Galaxy expansion, Ambition. Really looking forward to this.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:05
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Zveroboy posted:A nice article on BGG about the development behind the first Roll for the Galaxy expansion, Ambition. Really looking forward to this. Lehmann's designer articles are always pretty good. Thanks for the link, I'd have missed this otherwise.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:07
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Rutibex posted:I just played my 5th game of Fluxx with my neighbors and housemates. They have really taken a shine to the game and ask to play it now, as opposed to every "good" game I threw at them. I guess it must be "just fun". Amen, Brother Rutibex. The normie brain is like a lock, for which there is no skeleton key. Once they have seen the light, they might warm up to the "good" games or Cosmic, and take a moment's pause from the endless cycle of checking facebook, tweeting, and breeding. Until then, all bets are off For reals though, I'd probably try playing Linko, Frank's Zoo, Bohnanza, For Sale, and Cockroach Poker with this group eventually. edit: I've also learned that I'd much rather test the waters with a card game that I can explain and be done with in less than an hour, than to try a board game with randos and be stuck in a horrible game where someone is FREAKING OUT WTF IS THIS MATH HOMEWORK BULLSHITing hard for 2+ hours. fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 14:08
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Big McHuge posted:Never attribute to good design what can easily be explained with poor taste. I may have to make a cross-stitch of this.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:14
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Argent is fast becoming a "this is the only game I'll ever need" kind of thing. What a great game (and surprisingly easy to teach actually for how busy the board initially looks). Is Mancers worth getting? The base game has endless modularity but more Argent can't be a bad thing. e: also Concordia talk is makin' me remember I bought the new map a month ago. Need to get that to the table. Actually they're coming out with a proper expansion soon too: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/181084/concordia-salsa quote:"Salsa" is the Latin word for "salted", and in the Concordia: Salsa expansion for Concordia, players will discover:
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Sep 28, 2015 14:16
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BonHair posted:Turns out people have terrible taste. A common game in Denmark is "nailboard" where you get a block of wood, a hammer and some nails, and whoever gets their nail in the furthest/with fewest hits wins. This game is by all measures terrible, and yet people enjoy it more than, say, Agricola. A similar thing can be said about movies, music and all sorts of crap. I don't know that you could've picked a worse movie for your analogy, since Die Hard is roundly recognized as a well crafted action movie (maybe even one of the best), even by film snobs.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:16
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cenotaph posted:Related to this, the back of the president's shares show how much money is needed to float a company for a given par value. It's extremely important for people to know how much money they want to have left after bidding. Seconding this because the Worst Thing Possible is going big into a company and ending up with no way to float it, to the point where if it's bad enough it'll put you way behind (or out of the game if playing with aggressive/experienced players). Make 100% sure people know this - here's a really quick breakdown: quote:The most important rule to remember is that at least $402 is needed to float a corporation without the help of another player. For the PRR only $335 is needed, since one share has already been issued with the C&A. So if you want to be sure of starting up a company, you must limit your expenses in this round to $198. In a five player game, this is only $78
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Sep 28, 2015 14:18
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T-Bone posted:Argent is fast becoming a "this is the only game I'll ever need" kind of thing. What a great game (and surprisingly easy to teach actually for how busy the board initially looks). Yeah, if you really like Argent then it's a no brainer. It has a little bit of everything. Some things like the new mages and tiles expand things horizontally, other things like the scenarios and different bell tower cards expand things vertically. Go on forth and buy, I say
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Sep 28, 2015 14:21
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Big McHuge posted:Never attribute to good design what can easily be explained with poor taste. Fluxx has great design. Specifically, it's a great design for engaging people with poor taste (I own Monty Python Fluxx, I should know) and no desire to engage in the game. And that's a valid niche. sector_corrector posted:I don't know that you could've picked a worse movie for your analogy, since Die Hard is roundly recognized as a well crafted action movie (maybe even one of the best), even by film snobs. God damnit, I knew that would happen. I am below scrub tier on movies. Replace Die Hard with something else, I am not even going to suggest what. You get the point though.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:35
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BonHair posted:God damnit, I knew that would happen. I am below scrub tier on movies. Replace Die Hard with something else, I am not even going to suggest what. You get the point though. 
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Sep 28, 2015 14:37
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Mwahahaha we managed to beat Ghost Stories on normal finally it only took like 20 tries.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:48
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It was about a year ago that I introduced my parents to Pandemic and opened them up to the world of modern board games. Now, they play Carcassonne or Splendor together almost every day. My dad just text me to say "Can we try this Panamax game later? It sounds really interesting."
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Sep 28, 2015 14:54
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Zveroboy posted:It was about a year ago that I introduced my parents to Pandemic and opened them up to the world of modern board games. Now, they play Carcassonne or Splendor together almost every day. My dad just text me to say "Can we try this Panamax game later? It sounds really interesting." I'm slowly introducing my folks to Viticulture/Tuscany, and while it's going well, they still have questions about "how do I make wine?" after about 15 plays. They are getting the hang of it, and my mom has won the game twice. Looking forward to the day when I can start breaking out stuff like Panamax with them; glad to hear it can be done!
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Sep 28, 2015 14:57
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Dirk the Average posted:I'm slowly introducing my folks to Viticulture/Tuscany, and while it's going well, they still have questions about "how do I make wine?" after about 15 plays. They are getting the hang of it, and my mom has won the game twice. Looking forward to the day when I can start breaking out stuff like Panamax with them; glad to hear it can be done! I've found that with introducing board games to my parents it's very much a case of taking it slowly, but also knowing what kind of games they enjoy. My mum is very critical of new board games and takes a lot of convincing. Every time I've introduced her to a new game, it's been a frustrating slog through constant rule reminders, encouragement and negative comments ("I don't like this game. I won't be playing this again. Ugh, I have no idea what I'm doing.") She knows what she likes, and she likes Catan, Carcassonne, Splendor and Port Royal. Even with those games, it'll still be a steady tirade of "This isn't a good game for me. Ugh, what a bad card. A road piece AGAIN?! Stop stealing into my cities! The robber's been on me the whole game, it's not fair." My dad is willing to try anything once and really likes games where you start with a little and build something up. He's a lot like me in that the first game of something is written off as a learning experience, and the second game will be much more competitive. He's also like me in that we don't really care about winning. Obviously, we always play to win, but if we lose it's no big deal because there'll always be a next time. I've always wanted to play some of my heavier games with my dad, he definitely enjoyed Scoville when I introduced it, and he's expressed interest in learning Agricola and, as posted earlier, Panamax.
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Sep 28, 2015 15:20
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T-Bone posted:e: also Concordia talk is makin' me remember I bought the new map a month ago. Need to get that to the table. Actually they're coming out with a proper expansion soon too: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/181084/concordia-salsa That box is even worse! Is this game about salsa? Grapes? Two-dimensional people shoveling snow in their bathing suits?
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Sep 28, 2015 15:22
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Medium Style posted:That box is even worse! Is this game about salsa? Grapes? Two-dimensional people shoveling snow in their bathing suits? It has to be intentional at this point.
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Sep 28, 2015 15:29
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BonHair posted:Turns out people have terrible taste. A common game in Denmark is "nailboard" where you get a block of wood, a hammer and some nails, and whoever gets their nail in the furthest/with fewest hits wins. This game is by all measures terrible, and yet people enjoy it more than, say, Agricola. This sounds like an awesome game, I don't know what you're on about.
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Sep 28, 2015 15:38
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Oh Kickstarter miniatures games, will you ever stop being hilarious (left: promotional KS campaign image, right: actual miniature, 6 months later)
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Sep 28, 2015 16:11
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Soothing Vapors posted:Oh Kickstarter miniatures games, will you ever stop being hilarious That's eerily similar to how I always imagined the midsummer putty of Vogon ode fame would look.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:16
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Soothing Vapors posted:Oh Kickstarter miniatures games, will you ever stop being hilarious looks like one of those 50 cents plastic injection on demand animals you can get at the zoo
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Sep 28, 2015 16:20
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BonHair posted:God damnit, I knew that would happen. I am below scrub tier on movies. Replace Die Hard with something else, I am not even going to suggest what. You get the point though. Cultural taste is learned. If you've spent your whole life playing Monopoly at family game nights, and hating every second of it, then Fluxx probably does seem good by comparison. In fact, the humor in Fluxx is accessible, you probably have an enthusiastic person teaching it to you, and you're quite likely to win given the randomness of the game. All of those things combined contribute to creating a love of the game, I would imagine. In my case, that first game was Settlers, but now looking back I can admit that Settlers isn't very well designed from multiple perspectives. I would imagine that some gamers keep on loving Fluxx, much like how some people marry their highschool sweetheart, despite the fact that the only thing that drew you together was geographic proximity.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:20
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Trynant posted:Archipelago is still my favorite game. I had my second-best "worst loss" yesterday where I ended the game early and only lost because I gave a player some money as good faith only to have him win 'most money' both as a score and for tie-breaking (the first worst being intentionally throwing the game thinking I was behind only to find out the Separist was in play and I would of won if the round ended*). It has to be that this game combines a heavy engine-buildy game with a lot of direct player action (with incredibly little direct conflict!) and bluffing/deduction/cooperation. In order to play it well it doesn't require just mathematical strategy but also negotiation to a degree you just don't see. I like to think of it as building an engine and then driving that engine around with to negotiate both the board and the players. I prefer longer Archipelago games myself, lets you feel like you got your little area under actual development instead of "Welp, we went and looked around the area a bit". sector_corrector posted:Cultural taste is learned. If you've spent your whole life playing Monopoly at family game nights, and hating every second of it, then Fluxx probably does seem good by comparison. In fact, the humor in Fluxx is accessible, you probably have an enthusiastic person teaching it to you, and you're quite likely to win given the randomness of the game. All of those things combined contribute to creating a love of the game, I would imagine. In my case, that first game was Settlers, but now looking back I can admit that Settlers isn't very well designed from multiple perspectives. Baby steps. Munchkin was the big thing for one of my old high school friends, which graduated to, of all things, cards against humanity and last i heard they have moved upward again, at least to catan.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:27
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Soothing Vapors posted:Oh Kickstarter miniatures games, will you ever stop being hilarious How much pledge money did this one make?
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Sep 28, 2015 16:43
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Scyther posted:How much pledge money did this one make? 250k
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Sep 28, 2015 16:45
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BonHair posted:Turns out people have terrible taste. A common game in Denmark is "nailboard" where you get a block of wood, a hammer and some nails, and whoever gets their nail in the furthest/with fewest hits wins. This game is by all measures terrible, and yet people enjoy it more than, say, Agricola. My friends play a variation of this at backyard barbecues called Stump. The difference is that you have to hammer everyone else's nail in before yours, taking turns in a circle. And you have to flip the hammer before you bring it down. The thing is, that's a fun game in situations where it would be impossible to play any board game, even one with no strategic depth. It's not always a question of taste, sometimes people enjoy getting drunk and flirting with danger. People who bring out Cards Against Humanity at parties aren't preferring it over a different game because they have bad taste--they otherwise wouldn't be playing any game at all.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:46
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Soothing Vapors posted:Oh Kickstarter miniatures games, will you ever stop being hilarious What game is this?
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Sep 28, 2015 16:50
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Played two fast games of two player Ticket to Ride last night. I haven't played that for a while, and we had a great time. The 1910 expansion getting rid of the "longest route" bonus is a great thing. Both games were done in less than 30 minutes, and were within 5 points of each other (and I won both times  )I picked up the Asia expansion to try out the team game rules. Has anyone played that?
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