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Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001

A goose pooped on my head while we were setting up. :( Needed to have a sink shower in a nearby convenience store.

Other than that tonight went pretty well. We set up in the field of the school where my partner teaches, and on top of her astronomy class there were a lot of people from the neighbourhood that showed up. No clouds until after totality when we were packing up, so it was a really productive evening.

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Venusian Weasel
Nov 18, 2011

Here's a picture near the deepest phase of the eclipse, taken with my dslr hooked up to my 8" SCT. Unfortunately the remote for the tracking drive is broken and I haven't been able to find a replacement, so I needed to resort to using image deconvolution to remove the motion blur. Hopefully I can get a better picture than this out of the night:

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
The last lunar eclipse we had was what inspired me to get a telescope and learn how to take space pictures. This time around was a lot of fun, even though it got cloudy right as the eclipse was total.

seravid
Apr 21, 2010

Let me tell you of the world I used to know
Eclipse was great, conditions were great, taking pictures with a 135mm was not so great.

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
drat, those are some great shots. I love the composition.


While I had my scope going, I had another camera set at 50mm to take wide-angle shots every minute, while changing the exposure from time to time. It started just as the moon came over the trees, and ends when the clouds rolled in. I just checked out those shots a few mins ago:



(bonus airplane in frame midway through)

Venusian Weasel
Nov 18, 2011

I did a couple of widefield shots right after totality started:


Lunar Eclipse Widefield by Justin Cowart, on Flickr

In this one I composited in a shorter exposure of the Moon so it wouldn't be so over exposed

Lunar Eclipse Widefield by Justin Cowart, on Flickr

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]
It was very cloudy here in MD but I got one shot through a break in the clouds near the beginning of the eclipse. 8" SCT (with focal reducer).

Only registered members can see post attachments!

LunaSky
Sep 10, 2008

Even Diablo has a soft side
A local artist took this of moon last night!
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11953368_880714271983101_8750687354391603088_o.jpg

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

I was in the southern hemisphere while the moon was penumbraing so i bring you NASA's Picture of the Day because it is relevant and pretty drat rad.



http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150929.html

Blood moon transition with Lightning storm from Ibiza.

Made me try to take some lightning photos this afternoon.

Negative Entropy fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Sep 29, 2015

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.
I too shot the Moon.


2015-221 by Tom Rintjema, on Flickr


2015-223 by Tom Rintjema, on Flickr


2015-224 by Tom Rintjema, on Flickr


2015-225 by Tom Rintjema, on Flickr

My camera and lens are about 8-9lbs. Is there a mount I could get to track the sky that isn't $$$?

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9442951/nasa-apollo-moon-mission-photos-flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/album

8400 medium format images from the Apollo missions have been rescanned in 1800dpi and put into a big flickr archive.

AS11-40-5862 by Project Apollo Archive, on Flickr


AS11-40-5942 by Project Apollo Archive, on Flickr

AS14-72-10013 by Project Apollo Archive, on Flickr

AS14-72-9928 by Project Apollo Archive, on Flickr

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)

So I was on the verge of buying a telescope a while ago from Craigslist. Turned out the guy had already sold it and never took down the posting. I figured too bad, it wasn't meant to be. Well, I got a telescope the other day.



One of these. My uncle's neighbor wanted to get rid of it and gave it to whoever would take it. So, me. My first real telescope. 6" reflector f/8. The mount is loving beefy as hell. Pretty much all cast iron. poo poo ain't movin' nowhere it don't want to. I've yet to look through it, as it's missing an eyepiece. Gonna mount my camera to it and see how that goes. Had to clean off the mirror, and pretty much followed procedure for cleaning a camera sensor. Just, y'know... bigger. It's missing a motor and worm gear, though. I just need to find a, uh... 1/15 rpm motor and make/find a matching worm. Shouldn't be too bad, right? Pretty cool to have a big-rear end mount like that that could follow the sky. Then again, I may just make a hand crank with a flexible shaft for it if a motor is too hard to source.



And, as the prophecy foretold, on new(to me) telescope day, there were/are clouds.

Rotten Cookies fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 9, 2015

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
Holy crap, that's an old Edmund model right? I saw one at a star party last year.

drat fine scope. Classic.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Rotten Cookies posted:

So I was on the verge of buying a telescope a while ago from Craigslist. Turned out the guy had already sold it and never took down the posting. I figured too bad, it wasn't meant to be. Well, I got a telescope the other day.



One of these. My uncle's neighbor wanted to get rid of it and gave it to whoever would take it. So, me. My first real telescope. 6" reflector f/8. The mount is loving beefy as hell. Pretty much all cast iron. poo poo ain't movin' nowhere it don't want to. I've yet to look through it, as it's missing an eyepiece. Gonna mount my camera to it and see how that goes. Had to clean off the mirror, and pretty much followed procedure for cleaning a camera sensor. Just, y'know... bigger. It's missing a motor and worm gear, though. I just need to find a, uh... 1/15 rpm motor and make/find a matching worm. Shouldn't be too bad, right? Pretty cool to have a big-rear end mount like that that could follow the sky. Then again, I may just make a hand crank with a flexible shaft for it if a motor is too hard to source.



And, as the prophecy foretold, on new(to me) telescope day, there were/are clouds.

That's pretty cool, good for you.

I'd personally just scrounge craigs or something for a cheap scope with a mount or just a mount on its own and adapt the scope to it. Probably be a lot easier than trying to match up with proper worm to go with the worm gear and drive for it unless you really luck out.

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)

AstroZamboni posted:

Holy crap, that's an old Edmund model right? I saw one at a star party last year.

drat fine scope. Classic.

Bingo!


slidebite posted:

That's pretty cool, good for you.

I'd personally just scrounge craigs or something for a cheap scope with a mount or just a mount on its own and adapt the scope to it. Probably be a lot easier than trying to match up with proper worm to go with the worm gear and drive for it unless you really luck out.

I'm gonna take some measurements and try to make the worm. Probably way easier than trying to find it. If it doesn't work, I'll just make a matching worm gear to go with it and I'll know it fits. As a bonus, I can put a number of teeth/diameter on there that I want to match up to the rpm of a motor I get so keep the same movement to keep up with apparent motion. I love working at a machine shop sometimes.

In the meantime, I guess I can watch stuff without following.

hot cocoa on the couch
Dec 8, 2009

I've been watching Mars, Venus and Jupiter close in on each other all month, and today I finally got Venus and Jupiter in one field of view using binocs. Was pretty amazing to see bright rear end Venus only a few degrees from Jupiter and its moons in one view

Can't wait for the 26th-28th when the conjunction is closest, though the forecast says clouds for the next 7 days straight. Hopefully I get at least one clear morning!

Obsolete
Jun 1, 2000

Haven't had much interest in getting my stuff out since getting back from the Okie-Tex Star Party. Did you go? You should have gone. You should come next year. I'm on the board so if you saw a guy in a Twitch.tv shirt running around like a maniac, that was me.

Anyway, this was my first year there with a goal of strictly photography. It went... ok. I didn't get to do the targets I wanted (or they just didn't turn out), but I got in some of the "hits."

Double Cluster


NGC 864 & NGC 869 - Double Cluster by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Andromeda


M31 - The Great Andromeda Galaxy by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Pleiades


M45 - The Pleiades, The Seven Sisters by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

And one of the ones I explicitly wanted to spend some time on. Turned out OK for my first real time out.

Heart Nebula:


IC 1805 - The Heart Nebula by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

And the Lunar Eclipse from my front yard:


Total Eclipse by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Time Lapse Animation:


LUNAR ECLIPSE by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Space rules ya'll.

ltr
Oct 29, 2004

So I find myself in Palm Springs for a conference and how do I spend my first night? Go down to the bar and waste too much money on alcohol? Nope, go stargazing. I really lucked out and the valet suggested a scenic outlook up in the mountains about 40 minutes away. With the bag of goodies I had packed to help me understand what I am seeing, I headed out. It was a really good outing. First time sights for me included Perseus, Triangulum, The Pleiades, The Little Dipper, Aries, and Cepheus. Orion is currently rising outside my hotel window, so that is cool as well. I had left my telescope at home and just had my mid-range camera and a tripod. It actually worked out well as I spent more time learning the north/east sky than trying to find objects in the telescope. Now I can go home and feel more comfortable finding stuff in the sky. Managed a few good pictures, here is one of them(nothing compared to the previous poster though):


Perseus, Triangulim, The the Pleiades, and Aries

Bob Mundon
Dec 1, 2003
Your Friendly Neighborhood Gun Nut
Have a couple young kids and they really enjoyed looking at the planets recently with my cheapie 50mm refractor, kind of thinking I'd like to upgrade both for me and them. After doing some research anyone have experience with the AWB Onesky? I won't be using it terribly often so storage space would be good, and for future camping trips seems like it would be a good option packing away in the car. Like I said I won't be using it very often and mostly just off the back porch, so $200 is about the top of the budget all in. For that money anything else comparable?

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



My wife wants to get us a telescope for Christmas and is looking at one of these three:

http://www.amazon.com/8974-SkyQuest-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B00D2LDZLK/
http://www.amazon.com/8946-SkyQuest-Classic-Dobsonian-Telescope/dp/B001DJ4FEE/
http://www.amazon.com/Meade-Instruments-1005-05-03-LightBridge-Dobsonian/dp/B005LHMLSG/

Which of these is best, worst, and if there's a better telescope in this general price range what would it be? Thanks!

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Obsolete posted:

Haven't had much interest in getting my stuff out since getting back from the Okie-Tex Star Party. Did you go? You should have gone. You should come next year. I'm on the board so if you saw a guy in a Twitch.tv shirt running around like a maniac, that was me.

Anyway, this was my first year there with a goal of strictly photography. It went... ok. I didn't get to do the targets I wanted (or they just didn't turn out), but I got in some of the "hits."

Double Cluster


NGC 864 & NGC 869 - Double Cluster by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Andromeda


M31 - The Great Andromeda Galaxy by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Pleiades


M45 - The Pleiades, The Seven Sisters by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

And one of the ones I explicitly wanted to spend some time on. Turned out OK for my first real time out.

Heart Nebula:


IC 1805 - The Heart Nebula by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

And the Lunar Eclipse from my front yard:


Total Eclipse by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Time Lapse Animation:


LUNAR ECLIPSE by sdmacdonald, on Flickr

Space rules ya'll.

not bad for an ok night

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!

Luceo posted:

My wife wants to get us a telescope for Christmas and is looking at one of these three:

http://www.amazon.com/8974-SkyQuest-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B00D2LDZLK/
http://www.amazon.com/8946-SkyQuest-Classic-Dobsonian-Telescope/dp/B001DJ4FEE/
http://www.amazon.com/Meade-Instruments-1005-05-03-LightBridge-Dobsonian/dp/B005LHMLSG/

Which of these is best, worst, and if there's a better telescope in this general price range what would it be? Thanks!

If I was asked to recommend three scopes in that price range, those are the three I would suggest, but there are some caveats to be aware of. I've used all three, and these are my experiences.

The xt8+ is a fantastic scope, but it's on the expensive side for an 8". It does, however, come with a really nice complement of accessories including tool-free collimation on both mirrors and a white light solar filter. It's a really nicely decked out scope.

The XT10 is a fantastic and easy to use scope right out of the box, but it's a royal bitch to haul around. 10" solid tube Dobsonians really push the limits of my luggability tolerance. It also is the only scope listed with a single speed focuser. Both of the others include a dual speed unit, which is really nice to have, especially on short focal ratio scopes like these.

The Lightbridge 10 is WAY easier to haul around, but the motions of the mount are a bit wonky. The azimuth axis is very free-floating while the altitude axis is pretty stiff. It needs a little bit of tweaking and modification to get it right. Ideally, both axes need to have smooth, backlash free motions that require an equal amount of pressure to move, otherwise tracking objects at high magnification is a bitch. The other two are decent out of the box in this regard, but the Lightbridge needs some relatively simple adjustment.

If I were to pick one, I'd personally go for the Lightbridge. The modifications needed are really simple, and you get a lot of bang for the buck in an easily transportable package. The xt8+ would be my second choice.

Regardless of which scope you get, you'll need a high quality collimation tool. I recommend the HoTech 1.25" single dot laser collimator which can be had for around $80. Takes all the guesswork out of the equation. Also, if you go with either of the ten inch scopes, get a set of Bob's Knobs for the secondary mirror adjustment.

Finally, for the love of God Montressor, don't buy the scope from Amazon. Go with a dealer like Astronomics, OPT or Orion direct (if buying one of the Orion scopes). If the scope is defective, you'll have a much better time getting any issues addressed.

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



AstroZamboni posted:

Good information

Thanks a lot for that excellent write-up! :cheers:

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?

AstroZamboni posted:

Finally, for the love of God Montressor, don't buy the scope from Amazon. Go with a dealer like Astronomics, OPT or Orion direct (if buying one of the Orion scopes). If the scope is defective, you'll have a much better time getting any issues addressed.

Another good reason to order from one of these places instead of amazon is so they will continue existing. If all of these places go out of business it will be really hard to find knowledgeable places to buy this kind of stuff.

Bob Mundon
Dec 1, 2003
Your Friendly Neighborhood Gun Nut

Bob Mundon posted:

Have a couple young kids and they really enjoyed looking at the planets recently with my cheapie 50mm refractor, kind of thinking I'd like to upgrade both for me and them. After doing some research anyone have experience with the AWB Onesky? I won't be using it terribly often so storage space would be good, and for future camping trips seems like it would be a good option packing away in the car. Like I said I won't be using it very often and mostly just off the back porch, so $200 is about the top of the budget all in. For that money anything else comparable?


As I get carried away with jealousy at the proposed Christmas gifts for Luceo, any input on the Onesky? It looks like the most comparable scope price wise is an Orion Starblast 4.5, with a half inch less mirror and minus the collapseability. Onesky's eyepieces are supposed to be pretty good, would the starblast also come with decent quality ones?

It definitely looks like there is a big jump with a little higher price point, but tough sell going over $200 for what is a pretty casual hobby at this point.


So essentially these, if there are any comparable options I'm missing let me know.


http://store.astronomerswithoutborders.org/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=4&zenid=p2o87ahf9utovancjopgl54l66
http://www.amazon.com/Orion-10015-StarBlast-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B00D12U1IK
http://www.amazon.com/StarBlast-Equatorial-Reflector-Telescope-Metallic/dp/B0069VYPV4

Thanks also for the tip about buying from other than Amazon, but just linking for ease.

Bob Mundon fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Oct 27, 2015

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?
A scope at that price point isn't going to be any good and is going to result in one of two outcomes. Outcome one: "dad this sucks. Let's go in and watch TV." Outcome two: you spend even more money buying a scope actually worth your time after already purchasing this crappy one you'll never be able to sell second hand.

Spend 3 or 4 hundred. A $200 scope is going to have bad optics and a mount so wobbly that you can't really see anything because it moves from the pressure of an eyelash fluttering in the next town over.

vxsarin
Oct 29, 2004


ASK ME ABOUT MY AP WIRE PHOTOS
I got a private tour of Goddard yesterday and got to see some pretty cool stuff.

James Webb



NICER ISS arm mount



NICER

Bob Mundon
Dec 1, 2003
Your Friendly Neighborhood Gun Nut

GutBomb posted:

A scope at that price point isn't going to be any good and is going to result in one of two outcomes. Outcome one: "dad this sucks. Let's go in and watch TV." Outcome two: you spend even more money buying a scope actually worth your time after already purchasing this crappy one you'll never be able to sell second hand.

Spend 3 or 4 hundred. A $200 scope is going to have bad optics and a mount so wobbly that you can't really see anything because it moves from the pressure of an eyelash fluttering in the next town over.


That was what caught my eye about the Onesky, reviewers had it having a surprisingly stable dobsonian mount and for the price very good optics compared to most options in that range. I'd love to drop 400 but not an option unfortunately. And trust me, well aware of unstable mounts and bad optics, fighting through that right now.

Hoping someone has experience with the Onesky to either confirm the reviews or if it's still not great. Reviews seem pretty promising, but hard to trust without having first hand experience.

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
It's okay but not great. I used one and stability issues were definitely present. First of all, ANY tabletop scope is going to be kinda lovely on the stability front. Second of all, the two pole strut arrangement makes the upper tube assembly vibrate like a goddamn tuning fork. Third, it's not a true Dobsonian mount. It's a single-arm swing arm which is more prone to vibration.

The optics are good, and any one of the stability factors alone wouldn't affect the usability too much, but combined it leads to a lovely experience overall.

Get a good pair of binoculars instead.

Edit: I know this is $80 more than you want to spend, but if you absolutely insist on a telescope instead of binoculars and want to jump the gun when the budget doesn't allow you to get something worthwhile, then get this:

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes...yCategoryId=398

AstroZamboni fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Oct 27, 2015

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
Nevermind on the Orion scope. For the next four days, Astronomics has SkyWatcher 6" traditional Dobsonians for only $275. I had a similar scope as my primary instrument for fifteen years and it served me well. Still use it for high power planetary observing. Buy it.

https://www.astronomics.com/6-f8-traditional-dobsonian-reflector_p20339.aspx

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Pukestain Pal posted:

I got a private tour of Goddard yesterday and got to see some pretty cool stuff.

James Webb



NICER ISS arm mount



NICER



You should crosspost this to the Spaceflight thread.

Also I'm so goddamn jealous holy poo poo. Also extremely excited for JWST.

KnifeWrench
May 25, 2007

Practical and safe.

Bleak Gremlin

AstroZamboni posted:

Nevermind on the Orion scope. For the next four days, Astronomics has SkyWatcher 6" traditional Dobsonians for only $275. I had a similar scope as my primary instrument for fifteen years and it served me well. Still use it for high power planetary observing. Buy it.

https://www.astronomics.com/6-f8-traditional-dobsonian-reflector_p20339.aspx

Okay, as a layperson looking to buy a first telescope (as a gift for my wife), I can afford -- and was leaning towards -- the 10" Lightbridge linked earlier (https://www.astronomics.com/meade-lightbridge-10-inch-deluxe-dobsonian-telescope_p10678.aspx)

But now comparing side-by-side with this 6" telescope, I'm wondering whether that's overkill for a first purchase, as the smaller telescope looks very nice. Can anyone elucidate the marginal benefits that make the extra $400 worth it? (or if they don't for a newcomer?)

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
The ten inch will show ENORMOUS improvements on deep sky objects. That extra 4" means the difference between seeing spiral arms in the whirlpool galaxy and seeing a fuzzy spot.

That being said, the 6" f/8 is a KILLER planetary scope.

Of course if you were looking at the Lightbridge, I'd recommend looking at this instead of the 6" considering its on sale for $315 and is a MUCH better value:

https://www.astronomics.com/8-f59-traditional-dobsonian-reflector_p20340.aspx

That extra 2" of aperture makes it a beast compared to the 6" on deep sky objects. Also, the Crayford focuser is a big improvement over the R&P on the 6" and the 9x50 finder wipes the floor with the puny unit on the 6" scope.

It also has the same adjustable altitude bearing tension as on the Orion xt8+. In fact, except for the accessories it's essentially the same scope. Both are manufactured by Synta technologies in China and have identical optics. You're essentially just giving up the included solar filter, dual speed focuser and the secondary mirror adjustment knobs. However, considering it costs $185 less with free shipping for for the next four days, you can save a shitload up front and then upgrade it incrementally at a leisurely pace. As it is, it'll be a fantastic scope right out of the box.

KnifeWrench
May 25, 2007

Practical and safe.

Bleak Gremlin
Wow, thanks! The depth and breadth of knowledge here really blows my mind. Even the basic stuff seems a bit like impenetrable jargon, so I really appreciate the explanations of the nuanced differences.

KnifeWrench
May 25, 2007

Practical and safe.

Bleak Gremlin
Before I pull the trigger on this order, I guess I should also mention that my wife also enjoys photography. Is it worth it to get something specifically designed for astrophotography? Can you bolt stuff on to do it later, or would I need to look into that now? I imagine the price jump would be substantial for a telescope that can handle a camera and likely a motorized mount, but that might be worth it not to be hamstrung later.

VVV Thanks, yeah, that's what I figured.

KnifeWrench fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Oct 27, 2015

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
You can't really do astrophotography without a $2,000 investment at a minimum.

I know that's what everybody wants to do, but photography through a scope is a complex and expensive undertaking. You need to fundamentally understand how to use a telescope before you can even begin to do photography, and then you need a tracking mount with computerized correction that's oversized compared to the scope mounted on it.

You can do some basic imaging of the moon and planets with a dob using an afocal adapter for a smartphone mounted to the eyepiece, but to do any kind of deep sky imaging you need to shell out big bucks and devote years to the craft.

AstroZamboni fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 27, 2015

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]

AstroZamboni posted:

You can't really do astrophotography without a $2,000 investment at a minimum.

I know that's what everybody wants to do, but photography through a scope is a complex and expensive undertaking. You need to fundamentally understand how to use a telescope before you can even begin to do photography, and then you need a tracking mount with computerized correction that's oversized compared to the scope mounted on it.

You can do some basic imaging of the moon and planets with a dob using an afocal adapter for a smartphone mounted to the eyepiece, but to do any kind of deep sky imaging you need to shell out big bucks and devote years to the craft.

Strongly seconding this, as someone that is just starting this journey. I did research for months before buying stuff, and probably spent $5k in the end for all the doodads I wanted to get, and I'm not even done yet. Fortunately I have an understanding wife and disposable income and I really love astronomy, but it really is something you have to commit to if you want to do it right. The equipment you need is just not cheap, unfortunately.

AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
I'm going to be meeting an astronaut tonight.

Contain your jealousy.

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



AstroZamboni posted:

Of course if you were looking at the Lightbridge, I'd recommend looking at this instead of the 6" considering its on sale for $315 and is a MUCH better value:

https://www.astronomics.com/8-f59-traditional-dobsonian-reflector_p20340.aspx



Given the price difference between that and the Lightbridge my wife was looking at, and the general suburban sky of our house (not too bad, but not great either) I'm actually adding this to the list. Thanks again!

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AstroZamboni
Mar 8, 2007

Smoothing the Ice on Europa since 1997!
Not a bad call, especially for a first telescope. I have the Orion XT8 classic which is mostly the same scope. I love the hell out of it. Super easy to use, not too big to prohibit portability, and it'll show you loving everything. It's the Toyota Camry of telescopes. It ain't sexy, but it's dependable and does the job.

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