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Zoro fights with a sword in his mouth. I do wish they would show him swinging it instead of keeping it horizontal all the time. In 800 chapters it's only served as decoration during a finishing stance. When I was a kid I wanted him to just be a cool sword guy and now I want him to be whackier.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:48
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Niddhogg posted:I'm not really seeing why it's better if extra limbs and lasers are not part of a core theme. If it's like that isn't he just pulling attacks out of his rear end when he needs them? (welcome to shonen manga!) Because one way allows for different stuff in a fight to happen, the other is Naruto.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:58
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Amorphous Blob posted:Zoro fights with a sword in his mouth. I do wish they would show him swinging it instead of keeping it horizontal all the time. In 800 chapters it's only served as decoration during a finishing stance. You're building up a manga tolerance man, you need to cut back. This is how it goes downhill.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:59
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Baal posted:Because one way allows for different stuff in a fight to happen, the other is Naruto. I have not read Naruto so this means nothing to me.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:04
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You don't want to
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Sep 29, 2015 16:06
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Niddhogg posted:I have not read Naruto so this means nothing to me. I read both and I don't understand what it means or why it is a bad thing? Like are we just supposed to go "oh yuck Naruto, no thanks!" without having to read a coherent argument?
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Sep 29, 2015 16:06
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Like I liked Naruto specifically when everyone did have some core gimmick and had to use it cleverly in order to outsmart an enemy. It became super dumb when everyone could just pull "that" ability out of their rear end and win the fight or block someone else's super special thing. You seem to be arguing the opposite?
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Sep 29, 2015 16:09
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Guy A. Person posted:Like are we just supposed to go "oh yuck Naruto, no thanks!" without having to read a coherent argument? This is the correct thing to do though.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:14
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Tolth posted:Surely this kind of reinforces my point? His powers as a result of being made of rubber are "Can attack at a distance, grow really big, and is bulletproof". Like, that's also Goku. I'll concede the being thrown into a pool point - but at the same time that, and all the instances of Luffy using his stretchy arms to grab stuff etc, were non-combat stuff. I think we see more uniquely 'rubber man' poo poo when Luffy's not fighting than when he is. This is well stated and I see your point. It also makes me want to see Bellamy do stuff like this. But, the same could be said about Sanji who is """""""just strong""""""". His whole thing is kicking but all his attacks would be functionally the same if he really liked head butting people. If you get down to it it seems that one piece is full of superhumans who can't swim with a few superhumans who can swim mixed in. Even people with no fruit powers get crazy eventually.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:17
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Tolth posted:You're building up a manga tolerance man, you need to cut back. This is how it goes downhill. I'd draw my own better comic if I wasn't so easily frustrated. The best balanced character between flaws and strengths of power is Buggy. His power is kinda weak on its own and he's the one guy who really misses swimming.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:23
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At first Naruto had a lot of character gimmicks that were unique and interesting. One dude had an animal companion he uses to double team, one had puppets, one could transfer herself into the mind of another person and control them but is hurt by any pain inflicted on to them, etc. They were simple and gave variety, you get the idea. At a certain point, mostly around the second half of the series, the main characters were basically the only ones who ever had fights and fights at that point either became massive clusterfucks, one-sided battles that used the same attack or thing without any real ingenuity behind it, or were won by some mega op attack they pull out of their rear end. You rarely got to see the characters with unique abilities be used except for one who had a really good fight with an immortal dude and his only power is "I can use my shadow to do things." A part of why I like One Piece is because they aren't that. Some get to those areas like when Zoro just dropped Asura on Kaku, but everyone is always dropping new moves and even later those new moves don't just win them fights. Hell another fight later, Luffy can't chump Lucci with Gear Second like he did Blueno, he has to fight Lucci using all of these abilities he hasn't even seen him do and adapt and it's great especially when the fight is ended through them just fighting and not some new move being pulled out. It's also really cool when someone like Nami or Usopp has a fight where they get to show the unique qualities of their abilities and it's very different from the 3 monsters.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:30
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Niddhogg posted:This is well stated and I see your point. It also makes me want to see Bellamy do stuff like this. Thanks. The fact that Bellamy doesn't do that poo poo is why he's a scrub rather than a proper rival to Luffy. What makes Sanji interesting is his personality/chef stuff rather than the fact that he's a Generic Martial Artist though - if you look at him purely as a combat character, he's boring as gently caress. Like he kicks people and Ken taught him how to dragon punch with his legs, that's it. The only Sanji fight I can vividly remember off the top of my head is Wanze, which played into his whole cooking theme in a fantastic way. However, I can remember a shitton more of Sanji's out-of-combat stuff than I can Zoro's, who might as well be in a coma when not fighting. Sanji works because he's not really a combat character at all despite his 'monster trio' status - his purpose in the plot is to be the only male member of the crew who isn't completely socially retarded. Pop quiz questions - did you remember the Sanji/Doflamingo fight before reading this line? Did you remember the Sanji/Viola sub-plot as soon as I mentioned his out-of-combat stuff? Have you ever noticed that Guile has no eyebrows? Tolth fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 16:30
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Does anyone consider that a fight?
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Sep 29, 2015 16:32
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Baal posted:Does anyone consider that a fight? I'm pretty sure it got more screentime than most of the actual Dressrosa 1v1s did.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:34
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True enough
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Sep 29, 2015 16:36
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Baal posted:At first Naruto had a lot of character gimmicks that were unique and interesting. One dude had an animal companion he uses to double team, one had puppets, one could transfer herself into the mind of another person and control them but is hurt by any pain inflicted on to them, etc. They were simple and gave variety, you get the idea. At a certain point, mostly around the second half of the series, the main characters were basically the only ones who ever had fights and fights at that point either became massive clusterfucks, one-sided battles that used the same attack or thing without any real ingenuity behind it, or were won by some mega op attack they pull out of their rear end. You rarely got to see the characters with unique abilities be used except for one who had a really good fight with an immortal dude and his only power is "I can use my shadow to do things." I agree with everything you wrote here but I don't see how that has anything to do with the power template as opposed to Oda being a better writer. We established that Naruto had good fights with gimmicks at one point and that OP has had all around good fights; I think it was 100% Kishimoto becoming lazy and not understanding how to make his characters more powerful without just throwing weird powers at them.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:49
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I like it when the swordmans and punchmans sword and punch each other thanks Also Sanji vs Wanze owned especially for that gag where Wanze just stood there without changing his expression for a sec and then was like "holy crap that scared the poo poo out of me"
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Sep 29, 2015 16:51
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I also kinda hope Mihawk is just some absurdly strong dude. In a world where most people who matter have superpowers courtesy of whatever macguffin or paper-thin justification is local to the setting, I always think it's cool when there's at least one or two guys who can stand toe-to-toe with these powerhouses just based off the merits of their homegrown strength and skill. Not a bunch of them though, just a couple. I want Zoro and Mihawk to have a fair fight, steel against steel, skill versus skill, with no other factors.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:52
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Baal posted:except for one who had a really good fight with an immortal dude and his only power is "I can use my shadow to do things." link
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Sep 29, 2015 18:12
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One Piece is a world where everyone has a gimmick, origin eh who cares. Nami's Clima tact is functionally the same as if she'd ate the Weather Weather fruit. Sanji isn't JUST a martial artist, he only fights with his feet because a chef's hands are too valuable. One of my favourite no "powers" fights in the series is probably Zoro versus T Bone. If you go "origin" wise, both are just dudes. But one is a hardcore, constantly near dead samurai who is loyal to the end to a retarded rubber idiot who weilds a sword in his mouth. And one is an ancient looking corpse like marine, who would sacrifice anything for his men and prides himself on his geometric sword play. Despite many similarities, and both of them boiling down to "normal strong dude. Uses a sword", they feel very different. In the same way that Luffy and Trafalgar Law are both bad rear end warriors who happen to use Paramecia fruits, but are different. Kaido doesn't really need a fruit, because we know a big part of his gimmick, ie he's loving indestructible. To top this boring screed, one of the things I like about One Piece is this variety. It's not all about the fruit, you've got multiple styles using weapons and martial arts and such. A lot of the top tier dudes are fruit users, it's nice to have some variety there. I mainly would like Mihawk to be not a fruit user because so far his gimmick seems to be "I don't have a gimmick. I'm just a badass."
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Sep 29, 2015 18:15
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It's an hour long and has lovely audio, but here
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Sep 29, 2015 18:17
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shikimaru seems to be the only character with really good fights in naruto because his power forces the author to think about the fight for at least 2 seconds.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:19
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Pretty much
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Sep 29, 2015 18:21
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Niddhogg posted:Wow this guy who's power is "works out a lot" is really interesting!  he ate a bite of <thing> <thing>'.Like I agree with the guy's sentiment but for another reason, people that show up with weird and unique powers, or push themselves through hardship to come out on top, have mysterious and flabbergasting backstories (e.g. is the girliest fanboy ever/must split ice with head for great ancestral treasures) or make life-changing decisions in the heat of battle, are just much more interesting than watching some stone guy move stone around or TON TON or watching some string guy never die and make word puns for attacks that don't even make any sense (somebody tell me how Athlete Thread works please). Bisse fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 18:26
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Bisse posted:Like, recent guys with powers like "has a spike for a head" or "has only one leg but still kicks rear end" or "is old enough to die at any second but still kicks rear end" or "is such a hard-boiled hunk" or "is a seriously mean tactician" or "marries his opponent mid-battle to stop her from killing herself" or "KING PUNCH" or Jesus Burgess or Kaidou are several times more interesting than ' But you're listing people with fruits that are also good. It's not mutually exclusive.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:37
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Bisse posted:Like, recent guys with powers like "has a spike for a head" or "has only one leg but still kicks rear end" or "is old enough to die at any second but still kicks rear end" or "is such a hard-boiled hunk" or "is a seriously mean tactician" or "marries his opponent mid-battle to stop her from killing herself" or Jesus Burgess or Kaidou are several times more interesting than ' This is why the entire argument is dumb. Oda makes interesting characters because he is good at that. It literally doesn't matter if they ate a fruit or not, Oda will usually find a way to make them interesting. They are still written and drawn by the same dude. He doesn't have a history of using their DF as a crutch for characterization or phoning it in when they don't have a DF power. At some point this is all just arguing for the sake of it. Like you just edited but "the girliest fanboy ever" is Barto and he is not any more or less interesting because he ate a devil fruit.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:37
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Bisse posted:or watching some string guy never die and make word puns for attacks that don't even make any sense (somebody tell me how Athlete Thread works please). All of Doflamingo's attack names (minus a couple like the Birdcage) have "ito" in them which is the Japanese word for "string"!  Athlete Thread is just him kicking with strings on his foot so it adds cutting action to his kicks. Why it was named that, I'm guessing it's because "athlete's foot" is an English term and that's it.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:40
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DizzyBum posted:All of Doflamingo's attack names (minus a couple like the Birdcage) have "ito" in them which is the Japanese word for "string"! No it's just asurito in Japanese. Still an ito pun. e: If you're explaining "why was it named athlete at all," like half of Doffy's moves make no sense outside of having ito in them like fulbright or black knight AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 19:05
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Guy A. Person posted:This is why the entire argument is dumb. Oda makes interesting characters because he is good at that. It literally doesn't matter if they ate a fruit or not, Oda will usually find a way to make them interesting. They are still written and drawn by the same dude. He doesn't have a history of using their DF as a crutch for characterization or phoning it in when they don't have a DF power. At some point this is all just arguing for the sake of it. He also has Senior Pink in that list who has the swim fruit.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:11
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We can agree that unstoppable bird cage attacks are dumb, right? While I'm at it, Law cutting the mountain in half was also a load of BULLSHIT and Vergo was a great Strong Man fighter. e; Pink is my favorite Mingoman just cuz his backstory is so terrible. Amorphous Blob fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 19:30
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Kild posted:He also has Senior Pink in that list who has the swim fruit. I'm incredibly sad he wasn't on the Yonta Maria. He got a flashback, so I'm hoping he turns up again as an ally.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:31
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I still like that Doflamingo's awakened power could conceivably have been control over the strings that theoretically comprise every object in existence
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Sep 29, 2015 19:39
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Amorphous Blob posted:We can agree that unstoppable bird cage attacks are dumb, right? While I'm at it, Law cutting the mountain in half was also a load of BULLSHIT and Vergo was a great Strong Man fighter. If it weren't for the birdcage every single person who was a toy would have hiked it out of Dressrosa the minute they changed back. It's sort of a moot point to complain about really because it's so integral to how he kept things from falling apart as his ultimate failsafe
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Sep 29, 2015 19:39
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TheKingofSprings posted:I still like that Doflamingo's awakened power could conceivably have been control over the strings that theoretically comprise every object in existence He would have complete control over string theory and suddenly he would be talking directly to you, yes you, the reader, because of his awareness of everything in existence including the universe outside the manga
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Sep 29, 2015 19:41
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That would make a great cover sidestory for like three chapters.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:42
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Amorphous Blob posted:We can agree that unstoppable bird cage attacks are dumb, right? That wasn't an attack, it was a framing device. Both literally and figuratively.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:44
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TheKingofSprings posted:I still like that Doflamingo's awakened power could conceivably have been control over the strings that theoretically comprise every object in existence thats what awakening basically is anyway, controlling the stuff that makes everything up and changing it. also its probably why the quake fruit is so loving useful. if, in the one piece universe, everything expresses itself as a wavelength or rhythm or whatever, without awakening you could change the vibration of stuff and turn it into other stuff. thats why zoro can cut steel etc. literally, everything is one piece. the freest man in the world can do anything and everything. the greatest treasure in the world is literally owning it, except roger wouldnt want a greedy person to inherit it 
anime was right fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 19:51
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So, how's the awakened Gomu Gomu gonna work when it happens? My bet is Luffy gains the ability to reduce the integrity of other living beings flesh to turn them into I Have No Mouth Yet I Must Scream style piles of rubber goo permanently.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:56
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Tolth posted:So, how's the awakened Gomu Gomu gonna work when it happens? My bet is Luffy gains the ability to reduce the integrity of other living beings flesh to turn them into I Have No Mouth Yet I Must Scream style piles of rubber goo permanently. nah it makes it immune to crazy earthquake powers bc rubber vibrates instead of like, breaks or something odaish idk.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:58
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Tolth posted:So, how's the awakened Gomu Gomu gonna work when it happens? My bet is Luffy gains the ability to reduce the integrity of other living beings flesh to turn them into I Have No Mouth Yet I Must Scream style piles of rubber goo permanently. If Doflamingo's was the guy known for controlling everything to be able to control literally everything inanimate, and Blackbeard's being the guy who gains all his power by taking from others being able to take something connected to the very core of a person, what will the power be of the man who just does not go down, and seeks the highest freedom possible? A super ball.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:05
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