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The Vosgian Beast posted:Oh god the neoteny culture thing. I thought "neoteny" was how one admits to being a pedophile while trying to seize the moral high ground against the ~judgmental normies~ who think it is wrong to jack off to pictures of naked children.
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Sep 29, 2015 05:22
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Woolie Wool posted:I thought "neoteny" was how one admits to being a pedophile while trying to seize the moral high ground against the ~judgmental normies~ who think it is wrong to jack off to pictures of naked children. Also, Robert Anton Wilson came up with the fnords, who are these pricks exactly? Or do they have some dumb-rear end twist on the concept?
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Sep 29, 2015 06:02
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Humans are neotenous, not because we take a long time to grow up, but because we retain childlike traits as we mature, compared to other animals that are related to us. The easiest way to explain neoteny is with dogs, because dogs are neotenous wolves. We've selectively bred them to act more like puppies their entire lives. They don't grow up any faster or slower, but they retain a more puppy-like temperament even as adults.
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Sep 29, 2015 06:27
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You're taking the neoteny thing out of context. Wesley originally used it to refer to a supposed culture which likes cupcakes or something. Biology had little to do with it. Mostly stupidity and impotent rage.
Merdifex has a new favorite as of 08:10 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 07:05
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I like cupcakes
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Sep 29, 2015 07:56
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Merdifex posted:You're taking the neoteny thing out of context. Wesley originally used it to refer to a supposed culture which likes cupcakes or something. Biology had little to do with it. Mostly stupidity and impotent rage.
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Sep 29, 2015 08:16
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Does anyone have a link to the neoteny culture thing? I've seen posts about the same topic from the left, so that'll be a fun comparison.
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Sep 29, 2015 08:24
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Nessus posted:Also, Robert Anton Wilson came up with the fnords, who are these pricks exactly? Or do they have some dumb-rear end twist on the concept? It's a dumb-rear end twist. They take something written by someone they hate, remove everything except the emotive words, call those "fnords" and then complain that there's no rational argument left in.
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Sep 29, 2015 08:37
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Qwertycoatl posted:It's a dumb-rear end twist. They take something written by someone they hate, remove everything except the emotive words, call those "fnords" and then complain that there's no rational argument left in. Wow you mean by extracting the rational argument there's no rational argument left It's like changing the words in a sentence changes its meaning or something
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Sep 29, 2015 12:14
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wrt. effective altruism ‘Utilitarian’ judgments in sacrificial moral dilemmas do not reflect impartial concern for the greater good The claim is, and I didn't bother to carefully check the paper, that people who give utilitarian answers to e.g. the trolley problem do not do so because they actually like to maximize well being, but because they have little empathy. (Obviously, this, being a statistical tendency, does not mean any particular utilitarian is like that - it might actually be e.g. the whole Effective Altruism community is simply completely different from the random variation found within the general population. Edit: it also obviously does in no way speak against utilitarian philosophy.) Cingulate has a new favorite as of 12:22 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 12:17
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so why is this the only thread about stuff sorta kinda related to yud and his yuddies (i'm not sure who's dark enlightenment and who's not) that actually bothers making jokes. The "lesswrong mock thread" was drier than the sphinx's rear end and people's posts were like pages long of discussion of basilisks and "harry potter and the method's of the pathetic self insert fiction" and poo poo when from what I could tell most of that poo poo was so inane it barely deserved having that much thought into saying "that's loving stupid", and the book barn's harry potter and the methods of whatever readthread was even worse. I mean basically what makes yud worthy of being polite and refined when discussing him, has he ever actually done something good beyond his pages and pages of timecube-meets-heavan's gate cult public masturbation
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Sep 29, 2015 15:14
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Merdifex posted:For divabot, The source is a lovely forum thread from four years ago. This is all he could come up with after the last coupla days. Merdifex posted:You're taking the neoteny thing out of context. Wesley originally used it to refer to a supposed culture which likes cupcakes or something. Biology had little to do with it. Mostly stupidity and impotent rage. I'd been wondering wtf post-LW Tumblr had been going on about with this neoteny poo poo (presumably nothing related in the slightest to actual neoteny), I am strangely unsurprised it was a rant meaning "stuff that annoys me is childish which I am not". Cingulate posted:wrt. effective altruism This feeds my prejudices and supports my futile Internet arguments with utilitarians, therefore it must be correct. Acne Rain posted:I mean basically what makes yud worthy of being polite and refined when discussing him, has he ever actually done something good beyond his pages and pages of timecube-meets-heavan's gate cult public masturbation He incubated neoreaction and also gave many people on SA great joy over the years.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:28
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Nessus posted:Oh so "a culture that likes things other than the masculine arts which I personally favor" eh Yeah, unlike me! I like guns and racecars and super computers and space ships! And I don't like girls! I am totally not a six year old child!
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Sep 29, 2015 16:06
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On effective altruism, while not explicitly DE, it certainly is cool to read takedowns of that sort of thinking, and you certainly don't need psychology to tell you. For example this article:quote:MacAskill seems to think there is no moral calculation that can’t be made to fit on the back of his envelope; any uncertainty we might have about precise values or probabilities can be priced into the model. (His doctoral dissertation was on the modelling of moral uncertainty.) But the more uncertain the figures, the less useful the calculation, and the more we end up relying on a commonsense understanding of what’s worth doing. Do we really need a sophisticated model to tell us that we shouldn’t deal in subprime mortgages, or that the American prison system needs fixing, or that it might be worthwhile going into electoral politics if you can be confident you aren’t doing it solely out of self-interest? The more complex the problem effective altruism tries to address – that is, the more deeply it engages with the world as a political entity – the less distinctive its contribution becomes. Effective altruists, like everyone else, come up against the fact that the world is messy, and like everyone else who wants to make it better they must do what strikes them as best, without any final sense of what that might be or any guarantee that they’re getting it right. quote:The subtitle of Doing Good Better promises ‘a radical new way to make a difference’; one of the organisers of the Googleplex conference declared that ‘effective altruism could be the last social movement we ever need.’ But effective altruism, so far at least, has been a conservative movement, calling us back to where we already are: the world as it is, our institutions as they are. MacAskill does not address the deep sources of global misery – international trade and finance, debt, nationalism, imperialism, racial and gender-based subordination, war, environmental degradation, corruption, exploitation of labour – or the forces that ensure its reproduction. Effective altruism doesn’t try to understand how power works, except to better align itself with it. In this sense it leaves everything just as it is. This is no doubt comforting to those who enjoy the status quo – and may in part account for the movement’s success. quote:A more pressing objection to utilitarianism is not that it demands too much, but that it demands the wrong things, the things that constitute us as humans: our personal attachments, loyalties and identifications. On the utilitarian view, a pound spent without maximal effect is a pound spent immorally. Luxuries are naturally ruled out, but so is spending on worthwhile causes to which you might feel some personal affinity. Here MacAskill agrees: to choose to donate to a relatively cost-ineffective charity just because it’s close to your heart – the local soup kitchen, or a seeing-eye dog charity in honour of a blind relative (it costs £32,400 to train one seeing-eye dog and its owner) – is wrong. How far should the effective altruist go with this logic? If you’re faced with the choice between spending a few hours consoling a bereaved friend, or earning some money to donate to an effective charity, the utilitarian calculus will tell you to do the latter.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:11
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Acne Rain posted:
The reason to be polite while destroying his arguments is A) he's likelier to respond that way, and watching him run into the woodchipper that is the Internet at large and SA in particular is amusing, and B) the first thing he does is attempt to convince his phyg that any argument that isn't polite can be dismissed out of hand. That people can read his arguments, break them down thoroughly and properly using his own peculiar rule-sets demonstrates to people who might be getting caught up in his cult of personality that the larger world exists and they don't have to throw their lives/fortunes away living in a state of constant existential terror. Really though, it's mostly that it's fun to out blowhard a blowhard imo.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:20
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Acne Rain posted:so why is this the only thread about stuff sorta kinda related to yud and his yuddies (i'm not sure who's dark enlightenment and who's not) that actually bothers making jokes. The "lesswrong mock thread" was drier than the sphinx's rear end and people's posts were like pages long of discussion of basilisks and "harry potter and the method's of the pathetic self insert fiction" and poo poo when from what I could tell most of that poo poo was so inane it barely deserved having that much thought into saying "that's loving stupid", and the book barn's harry potter and the methods of whatever readthread was even worse. The main problem was that the Basilisk was highlighted in the OP because it was funny, so every ten pages someone would burst in and demand that someone walk them through the logic behind it in excruciating detail.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:41
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Nessus posted:Oh so "a culture that likes things other than the masculine arts which I personally favor" eh Yes. For example, one of the things held up as an example of 'Neoteny Culture' was... The Mountain Goats.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:49
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He's such a childish idiot it's kind of amazing he has anyone taking him seriously. I mean at least Donald Trump inherited vast sums of money.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:21
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The Vosgian Beast posted:He's such a childish idiot it's kind of amazing he has anyone taking him seriously. I mean at least Donald Trump inherited vast sums of money. A certain degree of overall mediocrity seems to almost be a pre-requisite.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:23
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There is something inherently funny, though, about someone with one hand saying religion is for fools and dupes and with the other warning you the robot devil will download your soul into cyberhell if you don't tithe.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:27
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Night10194 posted:There is something inherently funny, though, about someone with one hand saying religion is for fools and dupes and with the other warning you the robot devil will download your soul into cyberhell if you don't tithe. Why do people keep saying this, as though the Basilisk was Yudkowsky's idea?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:29
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Silver2195 posted:Why do people keep saying this, as though the Basilisk was Yudkowsky's idea? It's not the Basilisk. It's his conclusion with it. Namely 'Donate to my
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Sep 29, 2015 20:31
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Night10194 posted:It's not the Basilisk. It's his conclusion with it. Namely 'Donate to my Ah, I see what you meant. Different kind of cyberhell.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:34
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Cingulate posted:He's far from the dumbest craziest, or in any other most extreme person to ever have a cult following. Well, Dick Dorkins still has a cult, and is a complete dumbass in most everything, even though he's a pretty okay biologist.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:36
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A lot of these "rational" creeds and mantras and reasoning schemes seem to be ways to defeat the sanity checks your brain uses to warn you if the implications of your train of thought are absurd or morally reprehensible. You're mindkilled when your conscience steps in to try to keep you from reasoning your way up your own rear end.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:52
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Woolie Wool posted:A lot of these "rational" creeds and mantras and reasoning schemes seem to be ways to defeat the sanity checks your brain uses to warn you if the implications of your train of thought are absurd or morally reprehensible. You're mindkilled when your conscience steps in to try to keep you from reasoning your way up your own rear end. Most of these 'rational' creeds are fig-leafs on a bunch of already-discounted racial and gender theories or ways to justify prejudice. How often do you hear Islamophobic shitheads sneer that Islam 'never had an Enlightenment like us'?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:56
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Tiberius Thyben posted:Well, Dick Dorkins still has a cult, and is a complete dumbass in most everything, even though he's a pretty okay biologist. Has he ever done any impactful primary research?
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Sep 29, 2015 21:15
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Merdifex posted:People who aren't racist xenophobes are "beep-boops" says Wesley. Article posted:Given that progressive movements have, in the past, managed to destroy the country of Rhodesia and replace the government of South Africa Great and awful tragedies to lay at the feet of progressives.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:37
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Night10194 posted:It's not the Basilisk. It's his conclusion with it. Namely 'Donate to my Yudkowsky doesn't say this as a result of the Basilisk. He'd be beating the "donate to my stupid fanfic fund to stop Skynet" drum regardless of whether Roko came up with that idiocy.
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Sep 29, 2015 22:30
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Silver2195 posted:Why do people keep saying this, as though the Basilisk was Yudkowsky's idea?
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Sep 29, 2015 22:55
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Woolie Wool posted:A lot of these "rational" creeds and mantras and reasoning schemes seem to be ways to defeat the sanity checks your brain uses to warn you if the implications of your train of thought are absurd or morally reprehensible. You're mindkilled when your conscience steps in to try to keep you from reasoning your way up your own rear end. but dont you know, not being able to be a total piece of poo poo in public is "Just like 1984" above all the poo poo tropes nrxs and garden variety not-racists tend to spout, that is the most infurating 
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Sep 30, 2015 02:37
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It's not about free speech. They have no belief that free speech is a good thing, or even a good rule of thumb or safety procedure. What they do believe is that other people have the vague idea that free speech is important, and they are going to ride that pony for as much sympathy as they can.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:06
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Race Realists posted:but dont you know, not being able to be a total piece of poo poo in public is "Just like 1984" So it's basically just "Wah, I am expected to show respect to others I'm used to kicking."
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Sep 30, 2015 04:14
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I wish, desperately, for Race Realism/Human Biodiversity/Dark Enlightenment to reach mainstream culture, only to see it get called out as the Pseudo-Intellectual bullshit that it all is i find it funny a great majority of them style themselves as "great patriots defending Western Civilization  " when they openly admit they're too scared to reveal themselves for fear of losing their jobs (which sounds like the most half-assed, delusional excuse)
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Sep 30, 2015 05:03
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Night10194 posted:Most of these 'rational' creeds are fig-leafs on a bunch of already-discounted racial and gender theories or ways to justify prejudice. How often do you hear Islamophobic shitheads sneer that Islam 'never had an Enlightenment like us'? Many of them are too antisocial and downright weird just to be ordinary bigotry. There's more to it than that.
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Sep 30, 2015 05:40
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Woolie Wool posted:Many of them are too antisocial and downright weird just to be ordinary bigotry. There's more to it than that. I don't think there is, really. "Ordinary" bigotry is capable of causing extraordinary consequences. This also reminds me of a line by lazenby (whose work is worth reading): quote:Most things that seem satanic or malevolent are really just wretchedness and frailty that’ve been allowed to put on muscle.
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Sep 30, 2015 07:52
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The Awl recently put out an article about the dork enlightment, with emphasis on Nick Land: http://www.theawl.com/2015/09/good-luck-to-human-kind I'm not too convinced by the conclusion that NRx might become a serious, popular movement. ConfusedPig has a new favorite as of 08:30 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 08:28
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The thing is that if democracy is incompatible with freedom (it isn't) then democracy is still preferable to the deliberate death of the species that Land so readily embraces. If as a species we have to give up our geniuses to survive, then rest assured we'll have some ivory towers crumble. Better to be condemned to mediocrity than to not exist.
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Sep 30, 2015 12:57
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Peztopiary posted:The thing is that if democracy is incompatible with freedom (it isn't) then democracy is still preferable to the deliberate death of the species that Land so readily embraces. If as a species we have to give up our geniuses to survive, then rest assured we'll have some ivory towers crumble. Better to be condemned to mediocrity than to not exist. And if the "geniuses" and Randian types all manage to kill themselves, well... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html?pagewanted=all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0
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Sep 30, 2015 14:28
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:The Awl recently put out an article about the dork enlightment, with emphasis on Nick Land: http://www.theawl.com/2015/09/good-luck-to-human-kind Nick Land was created by locking an English philosophy student in a room that played Billy Idol's album Cyberpunk on repeat for six months.
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Sep 30, 2015 14:41
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