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Nakar posted:Testing has found that camo is drat near worthless as it only really works when crouching (basically you get spotted while standing/crouching in daylight at 65m but if crouchwalking in the right camo it's 35m, everything else is unchanged). But as it turns out, in complete darkness guards can't actually see at all. If you're getting spotted at night it's because you're going into light or making a lot of noise so they whip out flashlights.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:24
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It's pitch black and there are no lights even remotely near that particular location. Any amount of light probably adds to it, but guards outright cannot see unless there is some light. It's possible that clouds do have an effect on it, though I'm not sure how much of one. I'll test it with a forced Support Team weather clear.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:31
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I thought these were interesting interpretations of MGSV and how to relates to other metal gear games. http://europeanextreme.tumblr.com/post/128801653764/tpp-analysis http://www.giantbomb.com/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain/3030-40796/forums/the-ultimate-ending-discussion-spoilers-1781915/?page=1 I also listened to that youtube personality superbunnyhop's video on the game. He should learn how to not sound like a drone while reading. He also goes on saying things like "how can these SILLY characters in MGS3 be EVIL later on?? I don't believe it!!" and "They don't explain anything!!!" So what I got out of his review is that he doesn't want to think for himself and wants Kojima to explain everything. Last time the fans demanded everything to be explain was MGS4 and look how that turned out. Plus the characters in metal gear aren't supposed to be cut and dry.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:32
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Nakar posted:It's pitch black and there are no lights even remotely near that particular location. Any amount of light probably adds to it, but guards outright cannot see unless there is some light. It's possible that clouds do have an effect on it, though I'm not sure how much of one. I'll test it with a forced Support Team weather clear. This is very much true. I actually thought I was cheating somehow because of how bad their vision is at night.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:36
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I'm really glad this game didn't end up like MGS4 where every Metal Gear character who ever existed shows up for some kind of pointless fanservice moment.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:37
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I thought these were interesting interpretations of MGSV and how to relates to other metal gear games.  if you think turning MGS3 cast into villains was good writing.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:37
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Terminally Bored posted:
They're not supposed to be villians hence why nothing is cut and dry.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:38
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Dr.Clark and Sigint are inarguably meant to be seen as evil after the "reveal" that they're evil patriots. Zero is now in a moral grey area.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:41
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OK so here's an explicitly clear sky created by the Support Team, moonlight making the game visibly brighter, 10:30 PM, with Naked Gold camo (though no camo is "bad," I know for a fact Naked Gold isn't "good" on the surfaces I walk over). They can't see poo poo without real lights (flashlights, electric lights, fires, spotlights, etc.) at night, period.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:41
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SPACE HOMOS posted:They're not supposed to be villians hence why nothing is cut and dry. Sure but was it well written?
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Sep 29, 2015 18:42
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Terminally Bored posted:
Sure it was. It could have been better executed but "the villains are people who are fundamentally human and who simply fell" is actually perfectly thematic, especially in a game which portrays Big Boss himself as a doofy likable guy prior to him becoming Space Murderhitler.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:43
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 Ok I'll see myself out.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:45
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ImpAtom posted:Sure it was. It could have been better executed but "the villains are people who are fundamentally human and who simply fell" is actually perfectly thematic, especially in a game which portrays Big Boss himself as a doofy likable guy prior to him becoming Space Murderhitler. This is only saying that the premise, correctly, is perfectly sound and that the content of MGS4's twist could have been better executed. MGS4's handling of it is piss poor and without any kind of hint or set up for it in the game itself or in MGS3.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:53
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I thought these were interesting interpretations of MGSV and how to relates to other metal gear games. That's because 90% of "video gamers" are stupid morons who cannot read or see anything that isn't completely literal and it gets worse each year.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:53
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Zero's turn from lovable British movie nut to some weird guy who not only wants to, but has the ability to control every bit of information in every single corner of the world, is by far worst part of any of the Metal Gear Games. Hell, in 3 there is not even the slightest hint that he is let alone upset with The Boss dying, let alone irked enough to go out and take over the world. It absolutely is garbage writing.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:15
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Paul Zuvella posted:Zero's turn from lovable British movie nut to some weird guy who not only wants to, but has the ability to control every bit of information in every single corner of the world, is by far worst part of any of the Metal Gear Games. Someone's feelin' some phantom pain.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:23
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I'm already a demon.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:25
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The foreshadowing for Zero being a villain happens in a canonical game called Portable Ops.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:59
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1) The motorcycle should have been an unlockable vehicle along with the leather jacket 2) I get that really cool ideas aren't always practical to implement, but they shouldn't have put anything about Battle Gear in the game if they couldn't make it drivable. Don't show me the hover tank in-game if the only place it can be used is some boring menu.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:06
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Raxivace posted:The foreshadowing for Zero being a villain happens in a canonical game called Portable Ops. lovely game or not, I don't think Portable Ops gets enough credit with how it set up a bunch of the franchise's characters.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:08
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SIGINT being a shifty motherfucker was confirmed when the MGS3 credits revealed he was the DARPA chief. Para-Medic would totally make unwilling cyborgs in the name of science, also gene AIDS and vocal cord parasites. EVA and Ocelot joined up to bone Big Boss (EVA technically succeeded!)
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Sep 29, 2015 20:10
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Funky Valentine posted:SIGINT being a shifty motherfucker was confirmed when the MGS3 credits revealed he was the DARPA chief. Didn't EVA and Ocelot not join up at all? They were actually from competing factions? Did I miss something big?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:13
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Snak posted:Didn't EVA and Ocelot not join up at all? They were actually from competing factions? Did I miss something big? EVA, Ocelot, Sigint, Paramedic, Zero, and Naked Snake all joined up to form The Patriots. They used the Philosopher's Legacy.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:23
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Nakar posted:Testing has found that camo is drat near worthless as it only really works when crouching (basically you get spotted while standing/crouching in daylight at 65m but if crouchwalking in the right camo it's 35m, everything else is unchanged). But as it turns out, in complete darkness guards can't actually see at all. If you're getting spotted at night it's because you're going into light or making a lot of noise so they whip out flashlights. Let's just say I'm happy I didn't see this video until I'd finished the game. This also explains why NVGs never seemed to do anything for soldiers - I never got anywhere close enough for NVGs to kick in in the first place, even at night. Basically they could've allowed the soldiers 20-30 meters of vision in the dark and my playing the game would not have changed at all. I operated on the assumption that was the case and never ran into a situation where that would've been disproven.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:24
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Vic Boss posted:EVA, Ocelot, Sigint, Paramedic, Zero, and Naked Snake all joined up to form The Patriots. They used the Philosopher's Legacy. I forget when this is revealed. Doesn't Snake Eater end with EVA stealing the legacy for the Chinese? (But like, she fails because Ocelot already stole it, or something?)
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Sep 29, 2015 20:25
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The original six Patriots were Zero, SIGINT, Para-Medic, EVA, Ocelot, and Big Boss. There was immediately a lot of tension between Zero and Big Boss because of disagreements on The Boss's will, and when Big Boss found out about Les Enfants Teribbles, he split, followed by Ocelot and EVA. After Zanzibar Land and Big Boss was kept comatose by JD and the AIs, Ocelot and EVA teamed up to rescue him, which is basically the entire plot of the Solid Snake MGS games, culminating in 4 where they suceed. Also, one touch that I liked about the MGS4 reveal is that the three support team members (Clark, Anderson, and Zero) were a faction while the three people on tbe ground during Snake Eater (EVA, Ocelot, and Big Boss) were the others. Really, if you think about it ALL 6 Patriots are villains, because in the end they're all trying to institute destructive ideologies to fulfill their vision of a perfect world. It's just that evil isn't always as obvious as you think it is.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:28
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Nakar posted:OK so here's an explicitly clear sky created by the Support Team, moonlight making the game visibly brighter, 10:30 PM, with Naked Gold camo (though no camo is "bad," I know for a fact Naked Gold isn't "good" on the surfaces I walk over).
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Sep 29, 2015 20:34
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Okay but what I'm missing is when EVA comes back to BB? When does that happen? She leaves him at the end of Snake Eater, revealing that she was a spy all along. When does she come back to help found the Patriots?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:34
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Antti posted:Let's just say I'm happy I didn't see this video until I'd finished the game. This also explains why NVGs never seemed to do anything for soldiers - I never got anywhere close enough for NVGs to kick in in the first place, even at night. The spotting ranges by day seem to be as follows:
zedprime posted:I can't recreate this for the life of me, without fail I get pinged around 35m and the guy comes to investigate. Which outpost are you using so I can be sure to find whatever seemingly magic version of pitch black is needed for this? I tried approaching unalarmed checkpoints with a seemingly dark flank, I tried artificially darkening a checkpoint which put them into alert and might not count.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:34
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Snak posted:Okay but what I'm missing is when EVA comes back to BB? When does that happen? She leaves him at the end of Snake Eater, revealing that she was a spy all along. When does she come back to help found the Patriots? She explains it in 4. Big Boss found her in Hanoi sometime after Snake Eater and recruited her into the Patriots. China exiled her because her copy of the legacy was a fake.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:38
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What I hate is how someone whose hat is poking up above to top of a crate can see you. YOU DON"T HAVE LINE OF SIGHT!
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Sep 29, 2015 20:39
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Story-wise it would have been better had Big Boss never actually met EVA again. It kind of cheapens her running off at the end of 3.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:40
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I also listened to that youtube personality superbunnyhop's video on the game. He should learn how to not sound like a drone while reading. He also goes on saying things like "how can these SILLY characters in MGS3 be EVIL later on?? I don't believe it!!" and "They don't explain anything!!!" So what I got out of his review is that he doesn't want to think for himself and wants Kojima to explain everything. Last time the fans demanded everything to be explain was MGS4 and look how that turned out. Plus the characters in metal gear aren't supposed to be cut and dry. I dunno, I think he deserves more credit than that. Sure, he doesn't have a great radio voice, but his analysis and reviews are very well-considered. He's more than happy to think for himself (see his video on MGS2)--it's just that there wasn't a ton to go on. My take on it is this: The point with the "MGS3 support team becomes the Patriots" is that it didn't really feel earned. We went from them being the goofy sidekicks in MGS3 (with the revelation that SIGINT was the Darpa Chief, of course) to being world-changing, control-freak masterminds in MGS4, without anything really bridging that gap. It'd be one thing if we got a few hints that, say, Para-Medic was more than just a film-geek doctor in MGS3, but the truth is that Kojima probably had no idea they were the Patriots when he wrote MGS3. Peace Walker does nothing to bridge the gap, either, though MGSV's portrait of Zero in the tapes does a lot that helps (and I think Bunnyhop addresses that, if I remember correctly). It's not that I don't believe that the MGS3 support team could change enough to become the morally-bankrupt figures MGS4 painted them as, just that we're only ever told that it happened, and never even showed hints as to how they got there. It's unsatisfying. To put it another way: expecting the player to connect the dots is fine (and may even be good) if there are more than two dots to connect. Doesn't he also make the point that basically any revelation of the Patriots' identity in MGS4 was bound to be disappointing compared to the mystery set up in MGS2? Harrow fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 20:43
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Nakar posted:Playing by day is really the hard mode. Sneaking Suit at night makes you almost invisible if you avoid light and aren't sprinting around everywhere. Though D-Horse is also pretty OP for avoiding spotting since curious enemies won't investigate him as long as they can't see you on his back. This is a great post. Only thing I would add is that CQC isn't completely silent. Grabbing someone is silent, but guards can hear you throw other guards at short distances (10-15m).
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Sep 29, 2015 20:44
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Harrow posted:It'd be one thing if we got a few hints that, say, Para-Medic was more than just a film-geek doctor in MGS3, There absolutely are. People remember her film geek conversations and forget the times she goes all mad doctor and talks about how great it would be to clone Snake HINTHINT.\ Harrow posted:the truth is that Kojima probably had no idea they were the Patriots when he wrote MGS3. This I don't buy. Setting it up so Ocelot killed SIGNIT is already a pretty clear idea that he intended that all along. I doubt he had MGS4 planned out from the start but I'm pretty sure he intended the MGS3 support team to be bigger characters in the long run. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 20:45
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Sky Shadowing posted:The original six Patriots were Zero, SIGINT, Para-Medic, EVA, Ocelot, and Big Boss. There was immediately a lot of tension between Zero and Big Boss because of disagreements on The Boss's will, and when Big Boss found out about Les Enfants Teribbles, he split, followed by Ocelot and EVA. i dont think ocelot (and thus eva) really knew what became of big boss during mgs1, seems to be before the tanker incident and he kinda lucked out by getting possessed by liquid for real and then just getting a new arm post mgs2 and faking it all out to trick the ai's.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:47
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Shoren posted:This is a great post. Only thing I would add is that CQC isn't completely silent. Grabbing someone is silent, but guards can hear you throw other guards at short distances (10-15m).
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Sep 29, 2015 20:47
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Nail Rat posted:Story-wise it would have been better had Big Boss never actually met EVA again. It kind of cheapens her running off at the end of 3. I had no idea until this thread that they ever met again. It's pretty loving lame.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:49
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ImpAtom posted:There absolutely are. People remember her film geek conversations and forget the times she goes all mad doctor and talks about how great it would be to clone Snake HINTHINT.\ That's fair about Para-Medic. I remember when I played MGS3 and that conversation happened, I thought of it only as a wink-wink, nudge-nudge reference to the eventual clones, rather than a serious character beat. I'm not sure I agree that Ocelot killing SIGINT necessarily points to SIGINT being one of the founders of the Patriots. I mean, we know now that's why Ocelot killed him, but up until MGS4 we didn't really know much about Ocelot's own involvement with the Patriots. In MGS2, the "Ocelot" personality seems to be on the Patriots' side, while the "Liquid" personality is the one that wants to take out the Patriots, so to connect the dots from "Ocelot killed SIGINT in MGS1" to "he was doing that to strike at the Patriots" seems like a leap until MGS4 happens. It doesn't mean that Kojima didn't plan that--you're right about that--but I'm not sure it's a strong indication that he did, either. There are plenty of reasons Ocelot might want to kill someone.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:53
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Nakar posted:Da Shago Kallai, land NW of it at night and walk (this is important, walk at minimum speed) across the edge of the bridge right up to them. Make sure it's later than 6 PM; I used the Phantom Cigar until it was after 10:30. Nakar posted:It'd be very odd if that were true because in the video I posted above the guard standing <5m from the other guard completely failed to hear a punch combo. Not saying throws are silent but it would be strange if throws weren't silent when grabs and the punch combo are.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:54
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