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Starshark posted:So you admit there's a line. Now you just have to figure out that where you draw it is your personal opinion and can't be lumped under 'no speech should be banned'. Obviously there is a line this isn't a legal document it's a discussion between humans and you know perfectly well what I mean by "no speech should be banned"
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Sep 30, 2015 10:32
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Amethyst posted:I mean if you're happy to ban anti abortionists what about Wahhabi Islamists? Why not? One fundamentalist is the same as any other.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:35
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Amethyst posted:Obviously there is a line this isn't a legal document it's a discussion between humans and you know perfectly well what I mean by "no speech should be banned" Actually, I don't. You sound like a lolb who thinks we should be able to say whatever we want with no consequences. I think if you come to this country calling for specific people to be murdered (and that includes the Wahhabist example you brought up that you think is a slam-dunk for some reason), then you shouldn't be given a platform to air your views and the easiest way to ensure that is to not let you in the country.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:36
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gay picnic defence posted:Why not? One fundamentalist is the same as any other. Great! Let's ban all religions deemed by the immigration minister to be extreme.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:36
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Amethyst posted:I don't think any speech should be banned, personally. Eat poo poo and die.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:37
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Starshark posted:Actually, I don't. You sound like a lolb who thinks we should be able to say whatever we want with no consequences. I think if you come to this country calling for specific people to be murdered (and that includes the Wahhabist example you brought up that you think is a slam-dunk for some reason), then you shouldn't be given a platform to air your views and the easiest way to ensure that is to not let you in the country. If she has threatened someone in public then it is a criminal matter to be dealt with by the justice system. If it is hearsay we shouldn't be basing any kind of visa decisions on it.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:38
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September is an aggressive month.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:38
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Redcordial posted:Eat poo poo and die. It's incredible to me that support for mainstream, American style free speech laws provokes this kind of response in many circles now.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:39
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Friendos please stop fighting, you're all dumb 
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Sep 30, 2015 10:40
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Amethyst posted:If she has threatened someone in public then it is a criminal matter to be dealt with by the justice system. If it is hearsay we shouldn't be basing any kind of visa decisions on it. What if the country of origin has a lolb approach to free speech and doesn't think its justice system needs to deal with it.  tithin posted:Friendos please stop fighting, you're all dumb Dude, if you want the getalong gang it's not like there's no BYOB thread.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:41
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 I guess you guys would have no problem arresting and deporting this fellow, huh
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Sep 30, 2015 10:41
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My highschool liberry had a book entitled "Abortion: the Silent Holocaust". It was uh, not a cool read
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Sep 30, 2015 10:41
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Starshark posted:What if the country of origin has a lolb approach to free speech and doesn't think its justice system needs to deal with it. Obviously this scenario you just made up in your head doesn't apply here. The UK and USA have robust slander and libel legislation.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:43
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Amethyst posted:Obviously this scenario you just made up in your head doesn't apply here. The UK and USA have robust slander and libel legislation. Then why hasn't the fundie who calls for the murder of abortion doctors been arrested? I'm going to ignore the 'slander and libel' bit I don't know where the gently caress you're going with that and I don't think you do either.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:45
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Amethyst posted:
If that is a specific threat and not a figure of speech he should face some penalty, yes. He's already in this country and therefore subject to our laws so there's no need for deportation, but some intervention is required.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:46
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Amethyst posted:
100% fine. If he's not an Australia citizen, kick him back to whatever loving rock he crawled out from under. If he is, jail for hate speech. If that makes me wrong, I'm not interested in being right. In fact, you already had the right idea: Amethyst posted:Great! Let's ban all religions
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Sep 30, 2015 10:47
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The Peccadillo posted:My highschool liberry had a book entitled "Abortion: the Silent Holocaust". It was uh, not a cool read Was that an intentional mis-spelling? because nicely done!
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Sep 30, 2015 10:47
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Starshark posted:Then why hasn't the fundie who calls for the murder of abortion doctors been arrested? I'm going to ignore the 'slander and libel' bit I don't know where the gently caress you're going with that and I don't think you do either. Oh okay then. Great. The Australian immigration department is a better system for punishing people than actual justice systems. This is cool and good and it will make the world better.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:48
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Amethyst posted:Great! Let's ban all religions deemed by the immigration minister to be extreme. That would be an excellent idea. The obvious catch is whether or not the immigration minister is reliable enough to apply it equally to fundie Christians as he/she would to other religions.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:49
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Amethyst posted:Oh okay then. Great. The Australian immigration department is a better system for punishing people than actual justice systems. This is cool and good and it will make the world better. You're mistaking traveling to Australia, a privilege, with the right that people have to not be threatened by people who would murder someone for performing a medical procedure.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:50
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Memento posted:You're mistaking traveling to Australia, a privilege, with the right that people have to not be threatened by people who would murder someone for performing a medical procedure. Limiting people's movement around the world is a punishment. Furthermore, by setting this precedent, other countries will likely follow suit. Also, the idea that letting undesirables within our borders on tourist visas is tainting the Australian body politic and making it unsafe is a fallacious and paranoid one.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:52
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Amethyst posted:Limiting people's movement around the world is a punishment. Furthermore, by setting this precedent, other countries will likely follow suit. No, actually, limiting people's movement around the world isn't a punishment. I really don't get how you can say it is. Traveling to other countries is a privilege that country gives to you, and it's yours to lose. Like, by threatening to murder people for performing a medical procedure. Tell me why you think you should be allowed free entry to every country ever. What actually gives you the right to do that? I'm curious as to your thought process.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:56
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What obligation do we have to let anyone who wants to come here into the country? Clearly we have obligations to look after those who are in danger (which we are not really meeting at the moment), but outside of that situation why let people in unless it suits us? If the unemployment rate is high shouldn't we be cutting back on migrant workers? If people have hosed up attitudes towards women or LGBT people then why let them add to our own problematic culture?
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Sep 30, 2015 10:57
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Memento posted:No, actually, limiting people's movement around the world isn't a punishment. I really don't get how you can say it is. Traveling to other countries is a privilege that country gives to you, and it's yours to lose. Like, by threatening to murder people for performing a medical procedure. I'm not going to go into huge amount of detail about my broad philosophical reasons. Nor did I advocate for totally open borders for everyone forever. But I do believe that limiting international movement is an imposition on someone's general freedom.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:58
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gay picnic defence posted:What obligation do we have to let anyone who wants to come here into the country? Clearly we have obligations to look after those who are in danger (which we are not really meeting at the moment), but outside of that situation why let people in unless it suits us? If the unemployment rate is high shouldn't we be cutting back on migrant workers? If people have hosed up attitudes towards women or LGBT people then why let them add to our own problematic culture? Cultural problems aren't solved with a punitive legislative sledgehammer. Trying to do so with whatever ideas you hold that day may make you look very bad in the future. Look at the white Australia policy. Help culturally disadvantaged people with legislation. But don't punish cultural undesirables.
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Sep 30, 2015 10:59
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Anyone else playing "Amethyst argument bingo"? I reckon he'll say at least one more reasonable thing in the pursuit of this dumb argument, any takers?
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Sep 30, 2015 11:05
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ewe2 posted:Anyone else playing "Amethyst argument bingo"? I reckon he'll say at least one more reasonable thing in the pursuit of this dumb argument, any takers? Shut up you stupid moron. I'm not interested in your small minded poo poo from the sidelines.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:06
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Ewe2 is one of the worst posters in this thread, consistently. He has the personality of a faded cardboard box. His most remarkable feature is that he moderates an irc channel where a bot will ban you for saying certain words.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:07
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Amethyst posted:
Do you know who that is or are you just assuming they weren't born in australia lmbo?
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Sep 30, 2015 11:07
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Amethyst posted:Help auspol's disadvantaged posters with legislation. But don't punish auspol undesirables.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:08
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Amethyst posted:Cultural problems aren't solved with a punitive legislative sledgehammer. Trying to do so with whatever ideas you hold that day may make you look very bad in the future. Look at the white Australia policy. He (and Chris Brown) are not "culturally disadvantaged", whatever that means. They are both execrable shitheads, for different reasons, and shouldn't be extended the privilege of coming here and spewing their bile or profiting off their bad boy image respectively. And comparing banning them from coming here to the White Australia Policy is like saying that Affirmative Action is Racism.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:09
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Placing a hit on someone is free speech, and you're free to be arrested for it. Amethyst is right, you dunces (character assessments on others notwithstanding). Also, funny how we like banning exclusively black dudes for DV. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 11:09
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katlington posted:Do you know who that is or are you just assuming they weren't born in australia lmbo? Well, if we're denying visas on the basis of political speech, it isn't much of a stetch to imagine we could cancel the citizenship, or residency applications, of such people, either, is it?
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Sep 30, 2015 11:09
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Unimpressed posted:(Chris Brown) are not "culturally disadvantaged", whatever that means.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:10
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Amethyst posted:Ewe2 is one of the worst posters in this thread, consistently. He has the personality of a faded cardboard box. His most remarkable feature is that he moderates an irc channel where a bot will ban you for saying certain words. If the bot bans you why does it need a moderator?
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Sep 30, 2015 11:10
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Amethyst posted:UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Hold on, are you actually saying Chris Brown should be able to use the fact that he's black as a mitigating factor for beating up his partner????
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Sep 30, 2015 11:11
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While I'm on the subject of ewe2, what the gently caress kind of unbelievably lame piece of poo poo names themself after Bono's band? I bet ewe2 lounges around his house in a ponytail, really getting into Bono's vocals.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:11
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Oh god, here we go
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Sep 30, 2015 11:12
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Amethyst posted:Ewe2 is one of the worst posters in this thread, consistently. He has the personality of a faded cardboard box. His most remarkable feature is that he moderates an irc channel where a bot will ban you for saying certain words. Amethyst posted:While I'm on the subject of ewe2, what the gently caress kind of unbelievably lame piece of poo poo names themself after Bono's band? I bet ewe2 lounges around his house in a ponytail, really getting into Bono's vocals. Those sure are some sweet ad hominem attacks there, which are definitely not something who has no other arguments would stoop to.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:13
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He absolutely should have been allowed a visa. Then arrested, imprisoned and deported the moment he steps off his first podium. This way is so much less fun.
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Sep 30, 2015 11:13
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