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Wait so in addition to Puistokemisti posted:"any creature attempting to aid or hinder either of the two targets in any way must succeed at a Will save or lose its action instead" Wouldn't they have to succeed on a will save to help each other do anything, too? The only way this spell works is if they go on completely different goals. The only way this ends well is if you cast it on two people who are fighting to teach them a very important lesson about teamwork and how they really need to learn to trust each other to succeed (because then the power of friendship lets them make the will save to help each other, obviously).
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Sep 30, 2015 21:25
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Neraren posted:So you cast it on two allies, who can attack the foe with impunity, while the enemy has to make a will save or else just willingly accept they are going to be slaughtered. Awesome. "But we ARE fighting each other. We are fighting over who will kill the most mooks until the spell ends."
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Sep 30, 2015 21:26
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Rexides posted:"But we ARE fighting each other. We are fighting over who will kill the most mooks until the spell ends." Killcount competitions are surely a type of bout.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:31
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Big dick DPS competitions are absolutely a thing.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:03
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Does the mooks not wanting to die count as hindering the target? I mean, if Goblin Bob runs away from my paladin, that'd be one less mook he gets over his ranger buddy. God, this is shaping up to be the best spell.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:30
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homeless poster posted:if you don't imagine this as a hulk hogan / macho man dream team double team against any and all challengers, then i weep for your atrophied imagination The verbal component for the spell is screaming "OH YEEEEEEEEAAH!"
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Sep 30, 2015 22:38
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Kurieg posted:The verbal component for the spell is screaming "OH YEEEEEEEEAAH!" material component: a brick wall (smashed on casting)
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Sep 30, 2015 23:28
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Hog Inspector posted:material component: a brick wall (smashed on casting) Wrong Oh Yeah
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Oct 1, 2015 00:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlJULk0f9xA
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Oct 1, 2015 00:11
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Conservation of Matter Doesn't, AKA Let's Go Clubbing The crafting rules in 3.5e are super, super hosed, as a lot of people have revealed, and break down as the costs get higher. But the rules get really bizarre when you start dealing with really, really low costs. Specifically: there are two weapons that are completely free in 3.5e, the club, and the quarterstaff. This makes sense, as they're basically "stick" and "bigger stick", but even if you're just intended to say "I find a cool club on the ground", that's not how the rules work. The crafting rules work as follows. D20srd posted:To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps. -As a simple melee weapon, the DC to make it is Weaponsmithing 12. Now here's where this gets funny. "Pay 1/3 of the item's price for the cost of raw materials". Nowhere in the rules does it actually say you have to have access to raw materials, you just have to pay the price for them. And 1/3 of 0 sp is 0 sp. Now you make a craft check representing 1 week's work. A level 1 commoner with an average intelligence, and four ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing) can expect an average result of 14, 12 if they don't have artisan tools on hand. And they can guarantee this if they're not being 'threatened or distracted' and are thus able to take 10. Now, 12 meets the DC, which is exactly enough to succeed. At this point, we multiply the check result by the DC. 12 x 12 = 144. We've completed 144 sp worth of work on an item in 1 week. Now, here's where the magic happens. quote:(If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) Essentially, anyone with average intelligence and training in the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill and a quiet moment is capable of creating an infinite amount of matter (and weight) in a fraction of a second. If you can't come up with a clever use for that, you just aren't trying. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 00:23
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Poison Mushroom posted:Conservation of Matter Doesn't, AKA Let's Go Clubbing The fermi paradox of industrial production. By rights, there should be infinite clubs because someone out there would be stumble upon this and start doing it. There aren't infinite clubs, so why not? Either there's a great(club) filter, or perhaps these worlds are all in our imagination.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:42
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Esser-Z posted:Has anyone mentioned clubs in D&D 3.5 yet? See, clubs in 3.5 are free. Sure, makes sense. Just grab some wood. The thing is, crafting items is based on the item price--you have to spend one third of it in raw materials. So, alright, you can just make a club. Out of nothing.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:47
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quote:(If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If it's 'over the whole week', then alright, you just can take a week to create an infinite amount of clubs instead. Less murphy, but still murphy.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:57
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I'm personally more of a fan of the retroactive sand objects. See, 3.5 had a book called Sandstorm, full of desert related things. One of these was a prestige class called the Sand Shaper, a caster that got the ability to make things out of sand. You take some sand, decide what you want to make, then roll a caster level check. The DC to make this item is based on the size and complexity of the item. You can have at most one item per Sand Shaper level made in this way. Seems fine so far. The problem comes in with how they assigned the DCs and the fact that the time it takes to make an item is directly equal to the DC in minutes, with no minimum value. See, the lowest DC you can have is for a cube (or similarly simple item) that's 1 cubic feet of sand or less, and that DC is -5. That means you finish making it 5 minutes before you started. This holds even if you make it a functioning tool (DC -3, three minutes before you started) or give it fine details (DC -3) or even both (DC -1, one minute before you started). Heck, if you want to make a weapon out of it that only takes you exactly 0 minutes to do, as that's a DC 0 check.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:01
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Poison Mushroom posted:Conservation of Matter Doesn't, AKA Let's Go Clubbing it'd work a little better if they just clarified that a club has no resale value but still had some kind of trifling cost associated with making the object. 3.X is amazing for all the wrong reasons. i think the coolest setting would be one where the players aren't immediately told that they can do anything as long as they hold up RAW, but slowly find out over the course of the campaign that hawks can pull wagons full of 300 lbs worth of nude halfling commoners who are constantly making an infinite amount of clubs, forever
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Oct 1, 2015 01:18
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Who are you paying the zero silver to for the raw materials, though?
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Oct 1, 2015 01:21
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kafziel posted:Who are you paying the zero silver to for the raw materials, though? Well, Poison Mushroom posted:Nowhere in the rules does it actually say you have to have access to raw materials, you just have to pay the price for them. So I guess literally anyone, or at least anyone who will accept being paid zero money in exchange for doing nothing.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:30
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kafziel posted:Who are you paying the zero silver to for the raw materials, though?
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Oct 1, 2015 01:33
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homeless poster posted:it'd work a little better if they just clarified that a club has no resale value but still had some kind of trifling cost associated with making the object. Your party is walking down a dusty road that seems conspicuously untraveled. Along the road is a wooden fence, each post curiously topped with a worn leather saddle, fastened securely with iron. You hear the sounds of a struggle in the distance, and suddenly it's upon you. You look, but it's gone too quickly for you to be sure, a mass of eight naked halflings wrestling a man zooms off into the distance.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:34
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darthbob88 posted:Another of those never-entirely-defined questions, I think it's just "general merchants and vendors of raw materials", the same as you would for spell components. Although then the question remains, who is selling the raw materials to make a club? It's a stick of literally no value. You go to the woods, exchange zero money for the raw materials of a club, then create the club in planck time. Makes perfect sense.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:36
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kafziel posted:You go to the woods, exchange zero money for the raw materials of a club, then create the club in planck time. Makes perfect sense. plank time
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Oct 1, 2015 01:39
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Lottery of Babylon posted:plank time Get the gently caress out.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:40
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darthbob88 posted:Another of those never-entirely-defined questions, I think it's just "general merchants and vendors of raw materials", the same as you would for spell components. Although then the question remains, who is selling the raw materials to make a club? It's a stick of literally no value. However, if for some reason you fail the check to make a club regardless of the cost, you instead spend the whole week failing to create a stick.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:53
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Poison Mushroom posted:Conservation of Matter Doesn't, AKA Let's Go Clubbing Unfortunately, mathematics doesn't work that way. Instead, crafting clubs is broken in a different way. Using the average result of a common working without tools, we do get 144 sp worth of progress made towards our club. 144 sp is not equal to 0 sp, so we didn't finish the club in exactly one week. 144 sp is also not equal to any multiple of 0 sp, because all multiples of 0 sp are 0 sp. So we didn't finish the club in any fraction of the week. We made 144 sp of progress towards an item that costs 0 sp. And the rules are very clear that you are only finished once your total progress equals the final price of the item. So we need to make 0 sp of progress to finish our club. Unfortunately, failing the craft check makes no progress, which is not technically progress with 0 sp of value. Ergo, clubs cannot be crafted.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:55
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Pfox posted:The fermi paradox of industrial production. By rights, there should be infinite clubs because someone out there would be stumble upon this and start doing it. There aren't infinite clubs, so why not? Either there's a great(club) filter, or perhaps these worlds are all in our imagination. There is a LN Eternal Spider sentinel of epic level whose sole purpose is to devour anyone who hits upon this idea. Just one, for the Multiverses. Xhe's very very busy.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:57
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Your party is walking down a dusty road that seems conspicuously untraveled. Along the road is a wooden fence, each post curiously topped with a worn leather saddle, fastened securely with iron. You hear the sounds of a struggle in the distance, and suddenly it's upon you. You look, but it's gone too quickly for you to be sure, a mass of eight naked halflings wrestling a man zooms off into the distance. i need to hear the story about this one
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Oct 1, 2015 02:09
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President Ark posted:i need to hear the story about this one I believe it's using either grappling, because moving a grappled target 5 feet is a free action with a DC of 20 or whatever, so a clump of dudes grappling each other and cooperating can move at infinite speed, or the Ride skill, because dis/mounting is also a free action and can move you up to 10 feet from saddle to ground to saddle with two checks. The naked halflings, I think, are just because we've been discussing weight, for which naked halflings are a good example weight.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:17
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senrath posted:I'm personally more of a fan of the retroactive sand objects. I want to DM a game with this book entirely to gently caress with the perception of time and make people paranoid about tiny fences and walls of sand cubes arbitrarily existing suddenly.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:21
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Dismounting/mounting is a free (as in takes place instantly) action. Grappled characters are in what is effectively grapple-space, which functions similarly but not exactly the same as regular space. Combining those facts means an arbitrarily large group-grapple can mount/dismount/mount an arbitrary distance as long as you've got an arbitrary number of saddles. This all takes place in less than six seconds, which is the minimum reaction time in D&D. There is probably an Eternal Spider whose job it is to prevent this. edit if your setting doesn't use spiders instead of atoms allow me to recommend it. Peztopiary fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 02:23
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I want to DM a game with this book entirely to gently caress with the perception of time and make people paranoid about tiny fences and walls of sand cubes arbitrarily existing suddenly. What happens if you murder someone in between the time when the stuff appears and the time when they would have going to be causing it?
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Oct 1, 2015 02:27
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Obviously reality breaks.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:29
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darthbob88 posted:I believe it's using either grappling, because moving a grappled target 5 feet is a free action with a DC of 20 or whatever, so a clump of dudes grappling each other and cooperating can move at infinite speed, or the Ride skill, because dis/mounting is also a free action and can move you up to 10 feet from saddle to ground to saddle with two checks. The naked halflings, I think, are just because we've been discussing weight, for which naked halflings are a good example weight. Just looked, here's the grapple post, and the saddle one.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:29
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AlphaDog posted:What happens if you murder someone in between the time when the stuff appears and the time when they would have going to be causing it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWN8AhNER0
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Oct 1, 2015 02:31
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Eight halflings surrounding and grappling the same medium-sized target can each move their full speed with the entire mass within a 6 second round. This gets more ridiculous in Pathfinder with the Ratfolk, who can share the same space as another Ratfolk with the Swarming racial trait.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:32
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Eox posted:Eight halflings surrounding and grappling the same medium-sized target can each move their full speed with the entire mass within a 6 second round. This gets more ridiculous in Pathfinder with the Ratfolk, who can share the same space as another Ratfolk with the Swarming racial trait. So, if my math's right, a group of 10,928,568 ratfolk grappling off of each other could achieve the speed of light.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:37
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:So, if my math's right, a group of 10,928,568 ratfolk grappling off of each other could achieve the speed of light. Sadly, specifically doesn't work. The wording is "Up to two ratfolk can share the same square at the same time." So all this does is increase the movement speed of the blob to 16 ratfolk moves. Also, you can't do this to a human, since humans cap out at 8 Small creatures grappling them at once - better get a half-ogre or cast Enlarge Person first. 16 ratfolk moves is Not Bad though. Base movement of 20', so that's 160' every round - only 18.18 miles per hour - but that's just base generic ratfolk. Give 'em a level of Barbarian for the +10' move, and get Greater Longstrider widgets for all of them, and now you're at 400' every round, 45.45 miles per hour. Not bad at all! Or just get a regular horse, give it Horseshoes of Speed, and gallop at 320' per round. Slightly slower, but saves on money and you don't have to be wrestling sixteen gross smelly ratfolk at all times. kafziel fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 02:44
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Probably more, considering the way things get weird as you approach light-speed. Also from the first page, the reason the road you're traveling on seems so untraveled is that it was only made last night.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:45
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I think that's only in Spelljammer.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:45
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A Ratfolk can also share a space with the one being grappled, so that brings it up to 17. A Rat King is a very efficient way to move long distances.
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Oct 1, 2015 03:32
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Eox posted:A Ratfolk can also share a space with the one being grappled, so that brings it up to 17. A Rat King is a very efficient way to move long distances. Only if the one being grappled is also a Ratfolk!
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Oct 1, 2015 04:34
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