The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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Punkin Spunkin: Jan 1, 2010

Dead Goon posted:

I'm sure this has been asked many times, but could someone recommend me some books about the history of the Israel / Palestine conflicts?

I'd like that as well, it just seems difficult to find any that don't come with a heavy dose of some sort of bias.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 16:13

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# ? May 14, 2024 10:05

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

I found Charles Smith's Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict to be pretty good when I read it for a class a few years ago, though it's basically a textbook more than a monograph so it depends what you're looking for.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 17:01

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

vyelkin posted:

I found Charles Smith's Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict to be pretty good when I read it for a class a few years ago, though it's basically a textbook more than a monograph so it depends what you're looking for.

That looks like a good start, thank you!

# ? Sep 6, 2015 17:06

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

TheFallenEvincar posted:

I'd like that as well, it just seems difficult to find any that don't come with a heavy dose of some sort of bias.

Hmm, maybe history can't simply be reduced to objective facts?

# ? Sep 8, 2015 01:09

Punkin Spunkin: Jan 1, 2010

A human heart posted:

Hmm, maybe history can't simply be reduced to objective facts?

Oh, I'm not new to this merry-go-round, I know that aspect and I embrace it. It's really fun reading say like, six books about the same subject with differing POVs and biases, that's one of my favorite points of history. I just mean like, in the sense that some histories are far more more more biased than others. I'd prefer a lighter dose of bias whenever possible, of course it's inescapable.

# ? Sep 8, 2015 01:12

BeigeJacket: Jul 21, 2005

I found Israel: A History by Martin Gilbert to be very decent indeed. It's from the Israeli perspective but he's not a headbanger by any means.

# ? Sep 8, 2015 22:51

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Dead Goon posted:

I'm sure this has been asked many times, but could someone recommend me some books about the history of the Israel / Palestine conflicts?

Avi Shlaim is a good person to start with imo.

# ? Sep 9, 2015 00:10

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Crossposting from the just read thread, another history book I just finished.

Hell to Pay: Operation DOWNFALL and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947 by D. M. Giangreco.

A popular derail in many subforums on SA is the morality/justification of the atomic bombing of Japan, and one of the most common arguments in favor of the bombing is that Operation Downfall, the planned Allied (primarily American) land invasion of the Home Islands. This is perhaps the most involved and in-depth look at Downfall and its opposite number Operation Ketsu-Go (the planned Japanese defense of the Home Islands) yet written.

As you might expect, this is not a happy book. Operation Downfall would have been one of the largest and most complex military operations in human history, as evidenced by the amount of time this book spends covering the mammoth scope of the logistics Downfall would have required. While I try to refrain from offering judgment about the atomic bombing due to its tendency to spark massive derails, this book provides a thorough look at a closing chapter of World War Two that I think everyone, regardless of nation, should be glad never happened. Hell to Pay is meticulously researched and includes a wealth of information from primary sources both American and Japanese. The writing is nothing special, but there's lots of detail about everything that would have gone into Downfall, especially if logistics (for example, the largest and most complex military blood supply network in history was established for Downfall) are your thing.

Recommended if the subject is of interest to you.

# ? Sep 9, 2015 04:57

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

BeigeJacket posted:

I found Israel: A History by Martin Gilbert to be very decent indeed. It's from the Israeli perspective but he's not a headbanger by any means.

I checked this out from my local Library the other day as it was one of the few books there about the subject. I also got "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe which I have started reading first and am liking so far.

Disinterested posted:

Avi Shlaim is a good person to start with imo.

Thanks for this, will check him out.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 13:09

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Dead Goon posted:

I checked this out from my local Library the other day as it was one of the few books there about the subject. I also got "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe which I have started reading first and am liking so far.

You have to keep in mind that Ilan Pappe is a firebrand who sometimes stretches his arguments and evidence quite far, but that nonetheless that book is indispensable.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 13:34

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

Disinterested posted:

You have to keep in mind that Ilan Pappe is a firebrand who sometimes stretches his arguments and evidence quite far, but that nonetheless that book is indispensable.

Thanks for the heads up.

I have no particular bias and really don't know anything about the subject so it is good to hear stuff like this. I'm only three chapters in so far but it seems very well written at least.

Thank you!

# ? Sep 10, 2015 17:04

Star: Jul 15, 2005; Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.; Fallen Rib

I am looking for books covering the Napoleonic wars (and everything around that time) and/or the 19th century, especially the various great powers. I have read Hobsbawm's series, but anything else is welcomed. I know it's a really broad question and two really complex periods so the books don't have to cover everything happening during that time.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 15:34

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Star posted:

I am looking for books covering the Napoleonic wars (and everything around that time) and/or the 19th century, especially the various great powers. I have read Hobsbawm's series, but anything else is welcomed. I know it's a really broad question and two really complex periods so the books don't have to cover everything happening during that time.

Russia Against Napoleon by Dominic Lieven is a great book that covers exactly what's in the title.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 18:45

hobbez: Mar 1, 2012; Don't care. Just do not care. We win, you lose. You do though, you seem to care very much

I'm going to go ride my mountain bike, later nerds.

Did anyone in here read Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth? I've heard some say it's a fairly accurate and engaging account of Jesus' life, others have said it's sensationalized and distorted to fit the authors desired narrative. Any reccomendations?

Can anyone recommend any other books on religious figures? Allah, Jesus, or religions in general? Not after too specific of a topic, just an interesting read.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 17:44

9-Volt Assault: Jan 27, 2007; Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.

hobbez posted:

Can anyone recommend any other books on religious figures? Allah, Jesus, or religions in general? Not after too specific of a topic, just an interesting read.

For Jesus there is the A Marginal Jew series by John P. Meier. While most books in the series are probably way too much for what you are after, the first book, Rethinking the Historical Jesus: The Roots of the Problem and the Person deals with the question of the historical Jesus and might be of interest.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 17:59

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

hobbez posted:

Did anyone in here read Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth? I've heard some say it's a fairly accurate and engaging account of Jesus' life, others have said it's sensationalized and distorted to fit the authors desired narrative. Any reccomendations?

Can anyone recommend any other books on religious figures? Allah, Jesus, or religions in general? Not after too specific of a topic, just an interesting read.

It's an amazing read, I can say that much. As a non-believer and a non-historian I can't vouch for those aspects, but I could not put down the book until I'd finished it.

Changing subjects, any good books on Native American history? I might have asked before and simply forgot. I'm watching Ken Burn's The West and it's making me super sad but also super interested. I'm definitely picking up Geronimo's autobiography, but I'm wondering about if there's any other good books.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 00:48

PlushCow: Oct 19, 2005; The cow eats the grass

MonsieurChoc posted:

It's an amazing read, I can say that much. As a non-believer and a non-historian I can't vouch for those aspects, but I could not put down the book until I'd finished it.

Changing subjects, any good books on Native American history? I might have asked before and simply forgot. I'm watching Ken Burn's The West and it's making me super sad but also super interested. I'm definitely picking up Geronimo's autobiography, but I'm wondering about if there's any other good books.

You want to read Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown, it's essential.

quote:

First published in 1970, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee generated shockwaves with its frank and heartbreaking depiction of the systematic annihilation of American Indian tribes across the western frontier. In this nonfiction account, Dee Brown focuses on the betrayals, battles, and massacres suffered by American Indians between 1860 and 1890. He tells of the many tribes and their renowned chiefs�from Geronimo to Red Cloud, Sitting Bull to Crazy Horse�who struggled to combat the destruction of their people and culture.

Forcefully written and meticulously researched, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee inspired a generation to take a second look at how the West was won.

One of his research sources are the own words of tribal leaders, taken from US government transcripts of meetings between the tribal leaders and government officials. It's a disturbing, depressing read of the various tribes' destruction from their own viewpoint. There's a lot of romanticism about the American West and this book really shows a sad and disturbing look at the tragedy of it from those who paid the price of westward expansion, from a viewpoint you don't often get elsewhere. It's not a distant and objective history book, you won't read much about violence on settlers or between tribes, but it's important to read to get a more complete picture of the history of the American West.

Another one I thought was good was Empire of the Summer Moon by S. C. Gwynne

quote:

S. C. Gwynne�s Empire of the Summer Moon spans two astonishing stories. The first traces the rise and fall of the Comanches, the most powerful Indian tribe in American history. The second entails one of the most remarkable narratives ever to come out of the Old West: the epic saga of the pioneer woman Cynthia Ann Parker and her mixed-blood son Quanah, who became the last and greatest chief of the Comanches.

It covers about a 100-year history of the Comanches from the 1800s, focusing on Quanah Parker and his mother Cynthia Ann Parker, whose life the book/film The Searchers was loosely based on. It can get very graphic with the violence between the Comanches and settlers, but it's an interesting history from around the beginning of recorded contact with the tribe to their displacement to a reservation. One complaint was that the focus on Quanah and Cynthia Ann sometimes feels like you aren't getting the bigger picture, but that limitation is probably from a limitation of source material from the era.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 04:24

CmdrSmirnoff: Oct 27, 2005; happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

This is a little bit of a different request, but are there any good print collections of old maps out there? Large coffee table format would obviously be preferable, but I'll take what I can get for now.

Got an itch that needs scratchin'.

Edit: hell, maybe even general cartography history books. But I just wanted to stare at old maps.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 04:40

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

This is a little bit of a different request, but are there any good print collections of old maps out there? Large coffee table format would obviously be preferable, but I'll take what I can get for now.

Got an itch that needs scratchin'.

Edit: hell, maybe even general cartography history books. But I just wanted to stare at old maps.

Marina Warner reviewed a bunch of books about maps here.

I read the review at the time but haven't ready any of the associated books, should be a good starting point though.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 05:18

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

PlushCow posted:

You want to read Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown, it's essential.

One of his research sources are the own words of tribal leaders, taken from US government transcripts of meetings between the tribal leaders and government officials. It's a disturbing, depressing read of the various tribes' destruction from their own viewpoint. There's a lot of romanticism about the American West and this book really shows a sad and disturbing look at the tragedy of it from those who paid the price of westward expansion, from a viewpoint you don't often get elsewhere. It's not a distant and objective history book, you won't read much about violence on settlers or between tribes, but it's important to read to get a more complete picture of the history of the American West.

Another one I thought was good was Empire of the Summer Moon by S. C. Gwynne

It covers about a 100-year history of the Comanches from the 1800s, focusing on Quanah Parker and his mother Cynthia Ann Parker, whose life the book/film The Searchers was loosely based on. It can get very graphic with the violence between the Comanches and settlers, but it's an interesting history from around the beginning of recorded contact with the tribe to their displacement to a reservation. One complaint was that the focus on Quanah and Cynthia Ann sometimes feels like you aren't getting the bigger picture, but that limitation is probably from a limitation of source material from the era.

Welp, I ordered those two books (along with the Geronimo autobiogrphy), I'll get around to reading them when I get them now. Thanks!

# ? Sep 13, 2015 15:26

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

This is a little bit of a different request, but are there any good print collections of old maps out there? Large coffee table format would obviously be preferable, but I'll take what I can get for now.

Got an itch that needs scratchin'.

Edit: hell, maybe even general cartography history books. But I just wanted to stare at old maps.

"how the states got their shapes" might scratch that. It's a bit light but it makes good coffee table reading

# ? Sep 13, 2015 17:58

The_Other: Dec 28, 2012; Welcome Back, Galaxy Geek.

I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread, but a personal favorite of mine is Matthew White's The Great Big Book of Horrible Things: The Definitive Chronicle of History's 100 Worst Atrocities. As the title suggests, White lists the 100 events in human that killed the most people, giving both a short factual listing of the event (death toll, rank, who gets the blame, etc.) and a summary of the history of the event. Obviously since the events the book covers run from the Second Persian War(480-479 BCE) to the Second Congo War (1998-2002) he doesn't go too in depth about any of these events and I wouldn't use this book for a history report. Still this makes for an interesting read, especially White's analysis at the end were he tries to find a common theme to these events. It's a big book at about 670 pages, but you can easily skip around in it.

# ? Sep 14, 2015 01:38

smr: Dec 18, 2002

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

This is a little bit of a different request, but are there any good print collections of old maps out there? Large coffee table format would obviously be preferable, but I'll take what I can get for now.

Got an itch that needs scratchin'.

Edit: hell, maybe even general cartography history books. But I just wanted to stare at old maps.

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maps-Smithsonian-Jerry-Brotton/dp/1465424636/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442246845&sr=8-1&keywords=great+maps%5C

Moms got me that for Xmas, it's a big ol' beautiful coffee table book. Thinking my next tattoo is going to come out of this.

# ? Sep 14, 2015 17:10

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee is both great and loving heart-breaking.

Edit: Screw the Haters, Grant best president for naming an actual native Comissioner of Indian Affairs.

MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 16, 2015

# ? Sep 15, 2015 12:00

hobbez: Mar 1, 2012; Don't care. Just do not care. We win, you lose. You do though, you seem to care very much

I'm going to go ride my mountain bike, later nerds.

Dropping through to recommend Zealot, which I was asking about a few posts ago. If nothing else, it's an engaging and intriguing introductory narrative to the life and teachings of Christ. It reads more like a political thriller then a biography, I read it in 2 days. Don't expect a excruciatingly detailed or authoritative account though. Highly recommended!

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:51

clean ayers act: Aug 13, 2007; How do I shot puck!?

mariooncrack posted:

I know this is a broad topic but can anyone recommend any books on the Vietnam War?

Embers of War is a great book for the Lead up/French experience in Vietnam and does a great job explaining how the U.S. came to be involved

# ? Sep 19, 2015 04:22

smr: Dec 18, 2002

clean ayers act posted:

Embers of War is a great book for the Lead up/French experience in Vietnam and does a great job explaining how the U.S. came to be involved

Seconded. Read this one earlier this year and it really fleshed out my knowledge of the Indochinese wars prior to our country lumbering into the mess.

# ? Sep 19, 2015 19:57

Tulalip Tulips: Sep 1, 2013; The best apologies are crafted with love.

I'm looking for some good stuff about the Gilded Age. I just finished reading Gilded Lives, Fatal Voyage by Hugh Brewster (it's a pretty good and really easy read on the first class passengers who lived and died on the Titanic) and it's given me an urge to read more about the time frame since I'm not really very familiar it.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 02:05

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Tulalip Tulips posted:

I'm looking for some good stuff about the Gilded Age. I just finished reading Gilded Lives, Fatal Voyage by Hugh Brewster (it's a pretty good and really easy read on the first class passengers who lived and died on the Titanic) and it's given me an urge to read more about the time frame since I'm not really very familiar it.

I recently enjoyed:

http://www.amazon.com/1913-Search-World-Before-Great/dp/1610393805/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443456242&sr=8-1&keywords=1913

Basically, the author takes the reader on a global trip, hitting a variety of cities across the planet to report on what they were like right before the Great War hosed everything all to hell. It gives a good flavor for the era and is well-written as well. It's also not entirely eurocentric, spending a fair amount of time in colonial and independent non-white cities along the way.

Not super-deep scholarship, but a good pop/socio/cultural look at that specific period in time.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 17:06

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

Tulalip Tulips posted:

I'm looking for some good stuff about the Gilded Age. I just finished reading Gilded Lives, Fatal Voyage by Hugh Brewster (it's a pretty good and really easy read on the first class passengers who lived and died on the Titanic) and it's given me an urge to read more about the time frame since I'm not really very familiar it.

I'd suggest the House of Morgan, Carnige and the Commodore which is about the Vanderbilt s to start. They will give you a good read on the three great titans of the Gilded Age.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 03:42

Captain_Person: Apr 7, 2013; WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?

I've recently been getting into history again for the first time since high school, and I'm keen for any suggestions. I'm mainly interested in the history of civilisations from any era, although the biggest gaps in my knowledge are anywhere outside of Europe.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 00:26

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Can you be any more specific about your interests?

# ? Oct 2, 2015 03:08

RC and Moon Pie: May 5, 2011

Captain_Person posted:

I've recently been getting into history again for the first time since high school, and I'm keen for any suggestions. I'm mainly interested in the history of civilisations from any era, although the biggest gaps in my knowledge are anywhere outside of Europe.

Charles C. Mann's 1491.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 03:09

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

this is important: do not confuse 1491 (good) with 1421 (bad)

# ? Oct 5, 2015 01:39

superbelch: Dec 9, 2003; Making baby jesus cry since 1984.

Samog posted:

this is important: do not confuse 1491 (good) with 1421 (bad)

But do pick up 1493, Mann's follow-up book to 1491.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 14:32

Nckdictator: Sep 8, 2006; Just..someone

Has anyone read Jim Newton's JUSTICE FOR ALL: Earl Warren and the Nation He Made or John A. Jenkins The Partisan: The Life of William Rehnquist . If so, what did you think of them? I'm fairly interested in checking one of them out.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 02:37

Railing Kill: Nov 14, 2008; You are the first crack in the sheer face of god. From you it will spread.

Samog posted:

this is important: do not confuse 1491 (good) with 1421 (bad)

Yeah. 1421 is about a Chinese fleet that visited Italy, and is so speculative that it is basically historical science fiction in some spots.

1491 is great, though.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 12:00

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

Railing Kill posted:

Yeah. 1421 is about a Chinese fleet that visited Italy, and is so speculative that it is basically historical science fiction in some spots.

Nah, you're thinking 1434. 1421 is the one where China discovers California.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 02:29

Railing Kill: Nov 14, 2008; You are the first crack in the sheer face of god. From you it will spread.

dublish posted:

Nah, you're thinking 1434. 1421 is the one where China discovers California.

Huh. Man, people need to use something besides a year for the titles of their books. The 1400's are getting pretty crowded.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 12:37

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# ? May 14, 2024 10:05

chernobyl kinsman: Mar 18, 2007; a friend of the friendly atom; Soiled Meat

TheFallenEvincar posted:

I'd like that as well, it just seems difficult to find any that don't come with a heavy dose of some sort of bias.

Honestly any book about I/P that pretends not to have any bias is selling you something at best. Get a book whose bias you know in advance and interpret it with that knowledge in place.

# ? Oct 9, 2015 14:05

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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