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Personally I don't get why people get so up in arms about it.  Then again, I never got why people got mad about the Zodiac Spear in FF12 either, so who loving knows.
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Sep 30, 2015 17:44
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Ugato posted:Neither am I. You're talking going through 3 discs of a final fantasy game in less than 12 hours. You have to know exactly what you should be doing at every point in order to actually have a chance at getting the sword. I very much doubt anyone would ever get this as a surprise reward. Sorry, I wasn't actually responding to you nor was I refuting your opinion.
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Sep 30, 2015 17:52
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The Zodiac Spear and Excalibur II will deny themselves to you unless you jump through their hoops and never tell you those are the hoops, and if you fail the game silently erases them, is why. Especially the Zodiac Spear, since one of the chests you aren't allowed to open is opposite a house you have to visit to progress the story, and the chest is in frame after the cutscene is over. The game is pointing you at it and will punish you for an action it will in nearly every other context reward you for doing, and not tell you it's a punishment.
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Sep 30, 2015 17:56
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Honestly I kind of think whatever it was supposed to be it was kind of a failure. Reminds me of the ultimate weapon you get in Dark Cloud, which is just the penultimate weapon with a 2 tacked onto it that you can only get after doing a 100 floor challenge dungeon so you can then use it on... absolutely nothing because you've beasted the game.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:00
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Not going to lie, the last time I played IX, I just hacked Excalibur II into my inventory and said to hell with it.  ...drat, now I want to replay IX again.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:14
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Not going to lie, the last time I played IX, I just hacked Excalibur II into my inventory and said to hell with it. Similar, but I hacked my game clock instead. I don't personally have the patience for a perfect game, or even Excalibur 2 or level 1 run shenanigans in a vacuum without all the other stuff. But I do respect the patience of those who do feel like spending some of their leisure time working on a long and often tedious project like that. But personally I'd rather have the option of taking my time, not worrying about not killing things, and not having to mash through cutscenes and avoid exploring towns in a charming game world.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:11
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People complaining about Excalibur II is probably in the top three most baffling things in Final Fantasy to the point where I honestly can't really comprehend it. I figure it has something to do with it being a weapon instead of a key item but since for all practical purposes there's zero difference between the two as either way it's 100% a bragging rights reward instead of something meant to be put to use, I cannot figure out why anyone would consider it somehow "bad" or "dumb". Hell, it might as well be a Steam achievement or an easter egg message for all the relevance it has as an actual sword, and nobody sane gets upset about things like that. Zodiac Spear in the non-IZJS -version of XII I can at least understand since anyone can get it during normal play yet its requirements are completely nonsensical, but an Excalibur II run in IX is completely removed from anything even remotely resembling a normal playthrough. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 19:51
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:For a game overflowing with so much detail, it's bizarre that they'd only let you get the best sword in the game by rushing through it. Woah, it's the Moonlight Greatsword.
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Sep 30, 2015 20:09
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
That has to be disk 3. There isn't a point in disk 2 where you have only those two in your party. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 20:13
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Kyrosiris posted:Then again, I never got why people got mad about the Zodiac Spear in FF12 either, so who loving knows. The Zodiac Spear was just bullshit on how you had to obtain it. Granted, you -could- go and grab it at the earliest possible moment when you hit a certain area, but the monsters there would just bend your party over and turn them into hand puppets if you're not grossly overpowered at that point. But you -had- to know it existed before hand and know EXACTLY which four treasures IN THE ENTIRE GAME, STARTING FROM THE BEGINNING, were ones you couldn't so much as touch. I always have seen Excalibur 2 as a "Grats, you sped through nearly all the game! Have a Bragging Rights Reward to make up for your heavily gimped party and the fact you probably skipped 90% of the side-quests to get here!" and more as a trophy than anything, you know, before achievements/trophies were a thing.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:05
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Kemix posted:The Zodiac Spear was just bullshit on how you had to obtain it. Granted, you -could- go and grab it at the earliest possible moment when you hit a certain area, but the monsters there would just bend your party over and turn them into hand puppets if you're not grossly overpowered at that point. But you -had- to know it existed before hand and know EXACTLY which four treasures IN THE ENTIRE GAME, STARTING FROM THE BEGINNING, were ones you couldn't so much as touch. Or get it from the Henne Mines chest (yes, it's an outside chance of getting it, but it's non-zero). Or just use the numerous other (and arguably better) weapons of that caliber (Tournesol, Masamune, etc). That's why I don't get it; it's as superfluous as the Excal 2.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:08
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Kemix posted:The Zodiac Spear was just bullshit on how you had to obtain it. Granted, you -could- go and grab it at the earliest possible moment when you hit a certain area, but the monsters there would just bend your party over and turn them into hand puppets if you're not grossly overpowered at that point. Kyrosiris posted:Or get it from the Henne Mines chest (yes, it's an outside chance of getting it, but it's non-zero). Or just use the numerous other (and arguably better) weapons of that caliber (Tournesol, Masamune, etc). It's quite powerful for when it's first available, and fleeing through the area isn't so bad with a little planning. I remember Zodiac Spear making most of the mid-game a joke.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:18
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The Excalibur II is actually a reward for extreme patience and good taste. I mean, why play FF9 for under twelve hours when you could play it for over two years instead?
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Sep 30, 2015 21:19
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Kyrosiris posted:Or get it from the Henne Mines chest (yes, it's an outside chance of getting it, but it's non-zero). Or just use the numerous other (and arguably better) weapons of that caliber (Tournesol, Masamune, etc). But once you know how to get it, it's incredibly simple. It's just irritating for people that didn't read a strategy guide or something first. Once you know about it, there's no reason not to get it. People love to throw fits about it, but in IZJS it's basically just another high-end weapon, and is arguably much harder to get. You basically have to choose between the spear and some other excellent equipment, and it can only be obtained basically post- post-game. Personally, I prefer to be able to make a mad dash for it in the Vanilla version, when you're horribly underleveled and everything OHKOs you. Sure, it's a "a-ha gotcha!" moment for players that go in blind, but people that go in blind are bound to miss a number of items throughout the game. Final Fantasies are somewhat notorious for permanently missable gear, so it's not like blind players shouldn't expect stuff like this.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:21
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You have to just sort of know that you need to not open that chest at which the game points you in order to get the highest-attack weapon in the game, and that chest sucks - like most do - so there's no real opportunity cost once you do know. Basically you gently caress yourself over unless you go to GameFAQs.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:27
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The thing that annoyed me the most about FFXII was how the bazaar resets your sell counter on an item whenever you buy something unlocked by selling that item. I found that out waaaaaaay too late in the game and it meant that I was basically at square one for everything because I bought lots of stuff at the bazaar as I played through the game. I didn't feel like grinding everything for hours so I could buy some equipment I wanted for the high level NMs, so I just said "screw it", finished the final dungeon and called it quits.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:50
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Bregor posted:It's quite powerful for when it's first available, and fleeing through the area isn't so bad with a little planning. I remember Zodiac Spear making most of the mid-game a joke. Oh yeah, making an early Necrohol run for it is exciting and fun, but just like most people don't know about the four chests their first playthrough, they don't know how to do early Necrohol. U-DO Burger posted:The thing that annoyed me the most about FFXII was how the bazaar resets your sell counter on an item whenever you buy something unlocked by selling that item. I found that out waaaaaaay too late in the game and it meant that I was basically at square one for everything because I bought lots of stuff at the bazaar as I played through the game. I didn't feel like grinding everything for hours so I could buy some equipment I wanted for the high level NMs, so I just said "screw it", finished the final dungeon and called it quits. Now that's legitimate beef (though it can be used to your advantage too).
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Sep 30, 2015 21:52
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:You have to just sort of know that you need to not open that chest at which the game points you in order to get the highest-attack weapon in the game, and that chest sucks - like most do - so there's no real opportunity cost once you do know. Well, I wager that's part of the problem. Strategy guides are presumably still in business because there's apparently a few people out there who play video games but have never heard of GameFAQs. Or just don't have an at-home internet connection (gasp!) And obviously there needs to be a reason to buy them. Hence, hidden obscure bullshit that no one should be able to figure out on their own. I mean, even if someone did get the Zodiac Spear completely by accident, how are they to know that it was because they skipped over specific treasure chests? They'll probably have not opened any chests at all for some reason (Challenge? Not knowing what they are? A ghost that pops up and punches them in the genitals if they open a treasure chest? Could be any reason, really.) Truth be told, the prevalence of well-hidden missable items (and in the case of some series coughTalescough, cutscenes and story bits) is more of an annoyance than anything. Though I do miss the days when I could go through an entire game and not worry about permanently screwing myself out of cool poo poo if I didn't check a guide every few seconds.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:56
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I think I heard that particular bit of nonsense (and other assorted bits of obscure stupidity) are entirely due to one dude who had a serious boner for that kinda stuff. His reasoning was that the game experience would by improved by practically forcing a large community of players to work together figuring out this crap. Basically, like FEZ or Binding of Isaac, but not as Indie. This guy also added all of that stuff very, very late in development because he was brought in as replacement for the main director who worked himself into hospital trying to finish the game. IZJS added even more obscure bullshit (invisible weapons in invisible chests!) but mostly to make fun of that dude.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:07
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Mega64 posted:The Excalibur II is actually a reward for extreme patience and good taste. Leaving your PS1 on for two years just to get a sword when the timer overflows seems a bit excessive, though.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:48
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Leaving your PS1 on for two years just to get a sword when the timer overflows seems a bit excessive, though. Casual detected. 
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Oct 1, 2015 00:00
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Krumbsthumbs posted:That has to be disk 3. There isn't a point in disk 2 where you have only those two in your party. It is an obscure optional area of disk 2. Which means I should say; good luck on the huge amounts of frustration the upcoming bit is for level 1 OFS. Paused fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 00:07
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Captain Bravo posted:Casual detected. Yeah, if you don't max out your game clock on mini-games and sidequests, like playing the Snowboard simulator in the Gold Saucer for over 8 hours straight, why you... you might as well not even be playing, you filthy, filthy casual. Not guilty of that on purpose, nope, why do you ask? Stop looking at me like that.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:27
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Especially the Zodiac Spear, since one of the chests you aren't allowed to open is opposite a house you have to visit to progress the story, and the chest is in frame after the cutscene is over. The game is pointing you at it and will punish you for an action it will in nearly every other context reward you for doing, and not tell you it's a punishment. See, that one almost makes sense because Akitoshi Kawazu was in charge of the second half of 12's development. The man is mentally troubled and has an unhealthy obsession with making a game that is impossible to create a strategy guide for. In fact, three years before FF12, he actually accomplished that very task.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:16
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Paused posted:It is an obscure optional area of disk 2. For a second I had no idea what you were talking about, but now I remember. I think I only triggered that event once in all the times I played IX. It's this one, in case you were wondering. Captain Bravo posted:Casual detected. 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 01:32
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Simply Simon posted:I think I heard that particular bit of nonsense (and other assorted bits of obscure stupidity) are entirely due to one dude who had a serious boner for that kinda stuff. His reasoning was that the game experience would by improved by practically forcing a large community of players to work together figuring out this crap. Basically, like FEZ or Binding of Isaac, but not as Indie. To be fair that's kind of the philosophy behind Dark Souls, and it works well for that.
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Oct 1, 2015 06:17
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KataraniSword posted:See, that one almost makes sense because Akitoshi Kawazu was in charge of the second half of 12's development. I can't wait for the next SaGa game!
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Oct 1, 2015 07:45
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KataraniSword posted:See, that one almost makes sense because Akitoshi Kawazu was in charge of the second half of 12's development. I shudder to imagine Taro Yoko having this dude on speed dial. They're prolly drinking buddies. 
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Oct 1, 2015 07:46
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KataraniSword posted:See, that one almost makes sense because Akitoshi Kawazu was in charge of the second half of 12's development. He keeps being successful at that despite the inherent difficulties of doing so in an environment where your best randomness is pseudo-random. 
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Oct 1, 2015 08:20
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Fister Roboto posted:To be fair that's kind of the philosophy behind Dark Souls, and it works well for that.
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Oct 1, 2015 08:29
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International is almost a different game than Vanilla. I hated Vanilla, but loved the International version because it fixed so many issues with the items, combat, and general quality of life improvements to an absurd degree.
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Oct 1, 2015 09:10
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Tae posted:International is almost a different game than Vanilla. I hated Vanilla, but loved the International version because it fixed so many issues with the items, combat, and general quality of life improvements to an absurd degree. This is really true. There were also some party AI improvements that made a world of difference for me. Especially with setting party member distances from enemies. Less of my healers running towards the enemy, thank you.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:28
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My singular gripe with IZJS is moving the Nihopalaoa to later in the game. I was devastated. Everything else more than makes up for it a thousand times over, though.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:25
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EponymousMrYar posted:On the other hand, he just likes making games that surprise him. I'm pretty sure that Unlimited Saga is actually an eldritch abomination that just manifests partially in our world as a video game. He didn't make it, he summoned it.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:41
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Obligatum VII posted:I'm pretty sure that Unlimited Saga is actually an eldritch abomination that just manifests partially in our world as a video game. He didn't make it, he summoned it. Not even the fun of Hillary Haag as a character voice could save that game. So many levels of terribleness, all at once. 
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Oct 1, 2015 22:55
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Hahahaha, yesss, yesss! More terrible awesome SaGa games!
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Oct 1, 2015 22:58
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SorataYuy posted:Not even the fun of Hillary Haag as a character voice could save that game. So many levels of terribleness, all at once. I noticed Vic Mignogna was on the list too. If he can't save a game/series, it was probably doomed from the start.
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Oct 1, 2015 23:18
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Thinking on the plot of IX, there's one thing that confuses me. Red Mages are an established class within the universe. As such, the practice of Black Magic is well known. Yet, the narrative seems to treat these Black Mages like recent creations and Vivi is only 9-years-old and likely could not have created the art himself. So... are there other non-golem Black Mages that we never see? Or did Red Mages create Black Magic?
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Oct 2, 2015 03:46
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Steiner says black magiacians rare early on I think. Which is why he shows so much respect for Vivi.
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Oct 2, 2015 03:49
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We never see Red Mages actually cast any magic, colored or otherwise. We just assume they're Red Mages because they dress like the typical FF Red Mage. It's entirely possible they're not Red Mages at all. Also, yeah, Steiner at least makes it out that casting The Spells That Makes The Peoples Fall Down is... pretty serious business and not all that common.
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Oct 2, 2015 05:11
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