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Subjunctive posted:Does anyone know of a comparison that measures "from the oil well" for ICE vehicles, including emissions impact of processing and transportation of the fuel? I'm "in the green" because of California's power mix either way, but it seems somewhat disingenuous to claim to be looking at the "whole picture" when omitting the production impact for one side of the comparison. California primarily burns Natural Gas. So, no, you are not in the green.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:07
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There's been much anticipation for the Model X in Norway. One thing many want to use it for is exactly sport utility, carrying leisure poo poo around. Those drat Other features seem gimmicky as well, but the panoramic front windshield is probably sweet to sit behind. Closest I've come was a rental Citröen C4 (that's the sort of playboy life I lead), apart from a long reach with the snow scrape I really enjoyed the open sensation.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:31
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Ranter posted:I know I watched it, and it was conveniently not mentioned. A Porsche Cayenne Turbo gets 9.5 MPG while towing a large boat according to http://www.boatingmag.com/luxury-towing-porsche-cayenne-turbo-s. The regular milage is 21 MPG. So for a similarly classed vehicle that is >50% MPG reduction while towing. I wonder what the diff is with a EV. I assume the electric motors torque is much better suited for the task of towing (most trains are electric right?) but surly the Tesla X drivetrain is not optimized for towing...I have no idea how the efficiency hit is but I would assume better then the Porche, probably the EV motors are more efficient at getting the load from 0 -> 60 but then falls off when maintaining that speed. I guess enough to get to the lake if it is 150 miles or closer. Anyone else have real input? I'm just SWAG'ing spandexcajun fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 19:54
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Ola posted:There's been much anticipation for the Model X in Norway. One thing many want to use it for is exactly sport utility, carrying leisure poo poo around. Those drat They showed a trailer hitch / rear style rack in the presentation. I see these types of racks all the time in Colorado on Cross over / SUVs, I think this is a pretty standard alternative to roof racks. I imagine they work better for things like bikes, definitely easier to install / remove then a roof rack. I love the idea of the falconwing doors, they completely make sense to me. I also have 3 kids 2 of them a set of twins. All 3rd row seating sucks rear end to use and this is a good way to address that. The rumors were some of the big delays on the X were due to engineering the doors, I take this as a good sign they are well made and won't just be a problem in a few years. Good on Tesla for pushing things forward I say. It may not make sense in a low end vehicle, but for the Model X one should expect fancy / cutting edge stuff like this.
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Sep 30, 2015 20:07
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Pretty sure that the falcon doors are meant to be a different version of minivan sliding doors. The Model X is an SUV/crossover/minivan type vehicle so it's pulled from all those segments. It just can also tow 5k pounds while seating 7.
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Sep 30, 2015 20:20
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spandexcajun posted:I imagine they work better for things like bikes, definitely easier to install / remove then a roof rack. Definitely easier for bikes. Carrying 4 pairs of 6 ft long skis + 4 pairs of poles, not so good. Two kayaks...definitely suboptimal. But anyway, with the air suspension set to high and the reported traction capabilities, the Model S is already a great skiers car and can do kayaks as well.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:39
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Ola posted:Carrying 4 pairs of 6 ft long skis + 4 pairs of poles To clarify, I'm talking about something like this:  Definitely as good or better then a roof rack for skis / snowboards. I'm not sure what the downside would be, I guess it's a little less aerodynamic. But kayaks, yeah this would not be a good idea.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:18
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Platystemon posted:Nevada gets pretty cold at night. Parts of Alaska get pretty warm, too. Fairbanks does 100*F in the summer.
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Oct 1, 2015 01:19
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spandexcajun posted:
That's not four pairs of skis + poles. Only the snowboarder has all the equipment. And I didn't mean an open roof rack but:   A roof rack with a box attached. While a ski rack seems like a practical idea in a pristine photo studio, the real winter roads are like this:  The ski bindings (and rack mechanisms) will at best get caked up with frost and snow, most likely they will be caked in road grime, slush and salt as well.
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Oct 1, 2015 07:50
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Yeah, I was thinking of an open roof racks, very common in Colorado. I guess I'll never understand why folks are worried about getting snow and ice on skis, but it's all good  I think we agree in principle the Model X would be a fantastic winter resort vehicle. I have no idea why I am so vested in convincing Norther Europeans to buy crazy expensive E-SUVs, I really have drank the Tesla coolaid! Falcon doors rule, ICE vehicles drool. 
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Oct 1, 2015 17:18
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It looks drat sexy, I can't argue with that.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:24
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spandexcajun posted:Yeah, I was thinking of an open roof racks, very common in Colorado. What's going to happen to mileage in the cold though?
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Oct 1, 2015 17:35
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spandexcajun posted:Falcon doors rule, ICE vehicles drool. Front doors are still conventional. Passengers can get in, but driver has to crawl over the center console. SUVs ain't my thing, but the X is pretty awesome. I just don't get why they went to so much effort on the pax doors, if the driver still has regular doors.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:36
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In what cases does a driver have to climb over the center console? I guess if he's entering through the passenger door? But why would he?
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Oct 1, 2015 17:46
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MrYenko posted:Front doors are still conventional. Passengers can get in, but driver has to crawl over the center console. Because sliding doors would be too practical. And allow for roof racks.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:55
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I really dont get the appeal of the falcon doors on the X. Was it really worth a year's delay to get unique doors on what is basically a taller model S?
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Oct 1, 2015 18:07
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Mange Mite posted:Because sliding doors would be too practical. And allow for roof racks. But now you can put your child into their child seat more easily! Think of all the back pain medication savings!
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Oct 1, 2015 18:12
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Internet Explorer posted:In what cases does a driver have to climb over the center console? I guess if he's entering through the passenger door? But why would he? In the attached gif, the X is parked too close to the surrounding vehicles for comfortable entry with regular doors.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:12
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MrYenko posted:Front doors are still conventional. Passengers can get in, but driver has to crawl over the center console. As I said above, it would prevent the kids from slamming their door into the car parked beside while dad can open his regular door with obsessive caution. And it looks cool. Otherwise, I can only think of downsides.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:17
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MrYenko posted:In the attached gif, the X is parked too close to the surrounding vehicles for comfortable entry with regular doors. That makes much more sense, thanks for explaining it to my dumb self.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:25
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The X looks pretty cool, if I had kids it would definitely be interesting, but I think if I do end up getting a Tesla I'm still on board for the S, it would just be extra money for worse handling and speed and seating position (opinion obviously but I don't really like SUVs) if you don't need the space. The S looks like plenty of space especially if the roof storage is possible, I didn't even know it supported that. That windshield on the X is pretty sick though. I keep reading reviews talking about the instrumentation and the screen in the X and all that. It's the same one as the S though isn't it?
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Oct 1, 2015 18:48
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ilkhan posted:I really dont get the appeal of the falcon doors on the X. People think suicide / scissor doors are the poo poo. People are gonna fuckin flip out (hell, 40% of the press on the car so far is Them Doors Son) and it's great free advertising. edit: it was also worth a year's delay since Tesla has just barely started to produce cars at an even tolerable rate. Even if the X were ready, the line and suppliers weren't.
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Oct 1, 2015 19:39
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It isn't free advertising when it costs you a year of production and $X more in research costs. I'm on the roof racks are way better than hitch rack bandwagon. A roof rack is so much more versatile.
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Oct 1, 2015 23:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:People think suicide / scissor doors are the poo poo. People are gonna fuckin flip out (hell, 40% of the press on the car so far is Them Doors Son) and it's great free advertising. This is a great argument for the seller's advertising reach, not the buyer's use.
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Oct 1, 2015 23:25
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What does the data say? Do crossover owners use roof racks? Majority? Minority? 10%? I'm sure they calculated this in their business decision.
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Oct 2, 2015 00:39
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They have done 'silly' things on the model X to a kind of absurd degree. The seats that have space underneath to shove things under, the bio-attack filter mode, the super large windshield, all those things are just as silly as the doors so why not do the doors? To me the filter is the silliest part of the entire vehicle but then again the top model can get to 60 in 3.2 seconds so who am I to say the doors are too much?
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Oct 2, 2015 01:17
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KakerMix posted:They have done 'silly' things on the model X to a kind of absurd degree. The seats that have space underneath to shove things under, the bio-attack filter mode, the super large windshield, all those things are just as silly as the doors so why not do the doors? To me the filter is the silliest part of the entire vehicle but then again the top model can get to 60 in 3.2 seconds so who am I to say the doors are too much? Care to explain why all those things are silly?
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Oct 2, 2015 01:33
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Realistically, luxury vehicles in general are silly. Tesla is a luxury carmaker so let them have their gimmicks. Don't take that statement as a negative. I'd love a Tesla but a luxury car is just too silly to justify for me.
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Oct 2, 2015 01:46
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The Model S has a lot of questionable gimmicks, too. That giant touch-screen, the whole 4-door coupe shape, the pop-out door handles. It's all overcomplicated and kind of pointless, but they're necessary because the car is being sold as a luxury car at a luxury car pricepoint but the actual workmanship and materials (especially before the latest interior upgrade refresh) are not really at the level of comparably priced luxury cars. I've seen orange peeling on various parts of the paint, some pretty bad panel gaps, rattly switchgear, the headliner is just cardboard, etc. They're willing to eat the engineering and warranty costs of those gadgets probably because they have more engineering and financial resources than they do manufacturing ones.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:05
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And anecdotal evidence from model s owners on reddit is they are taking it in for repairs very often.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:25
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Ribsauce posted:It isn't free advertising when it costs you a year of production and $X more in research costs. They were production capacity limited that entire time, so I don't really buy that as a significant downside.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:15
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The gullwing doors don't solve any problem that minivan sliding doors don't, but you can't have sliding doors because that makes you a human being ot something so here we are.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:53
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spandexcajun posted:Yeah, I was thinking of an open roof racks, very common in Colorado. Yess finally. 
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Oct 2, 2015 07:59
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CommieGIR posted:California primarily burns Natural Gas. So, no, you are not in the green. Not sure what you mean. California produces a plurality of its electricity from NG, it's true, but even measuring from smokestack, I'm pretty sure I produce fewer emissions than a 40mpg ICE. http://www.apep.uci.edu/3/ResearchSummaries/pdf/SustainableTransportation/WTW_vehicle_greenhouse_gases_Public.pdf is the most complete overview I've found, incorporating fuel production costs for petroleum as well as electricity.
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Oct 2, 2015 21:32
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Ranter posted:And anecdotal evidence from model s owners on reddit is they are taking it in for repairs very often. Yeah, I had to take mine in for a problem with the backup sensor (turned out to be overspray from painting), and I have a couple of niggles now (wind noise on driver's side > 60mph, and grinding noise from trunk hydraulics). Going to deal with the latter set when I get it in for the ludicrous upgrade (and LTE I hope), unless it starts to bother me a lot more. I wouldn't have been this picky with my previous car, but as you said: luxury car pricing. (My daughter thinks the door handles are the best thing ever though, so  . )
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Oct 2, 2015 21:52
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Does anyone know what Chevy Volts go for at auctions right now? I saw a bunch of articles from April about their auction prices but none since. My brother had a friend of my dad buy him a truck through an auction and I was thinking it might be a good way to get a good deal on one.
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Oct 9, 2015 21:18
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You can get a good deal on a Volt by going to your neighborhood Chevy dealer.
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Oct 9, 2015 21:22
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I made the mistake of giving a chevy dealer sales guy my phone number. I did the same with BMW and Mercedes, and those guys totally respected me when I said thank you but I wasn't buying from them right now. The Chevy guy though calls me once or twice a day. I'm actually a little interested in their car because its so much cheaper, but I will never buy from him now because he's an annoying rear end in a top hat. I'm leaning towards the Mercedes B-Class right now, I loved the build quality of the interior and the extra features. If they didn't have such a terrible rep then the Kia Soul might be no. 2 on my list. So it's either the Mercedes or hope my hosed Camry can make it until 2017 whenever the 'cheaper' Tesla is out.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:05
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Tell the salesman (or rather, his boss) that you just bought a car and the main reason for going with another brand over chevy was the salesman's nagging.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:41
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Ranter posted:I'm leaning towards the Mercedes B-Class right now, I loved the build quality of the interior and the extra features. If they didn't have such a terrible rep then the Kia Soul might be no. 2 on my list. So it's either the Mercedes or hope my hosed Camry can make it until 2017 whenever the 'cheaper' Tesla is out. Keep in mind that you'll have less of an ability to do medium-length trips with quick charging at your destination with a Mercedes B-class as it doesn't have any quick charging support. I'd recommend looking into any planned quick charging stations in your area before you buy a car that won't take quick charging.
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Oct 9, 2015 23:40
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