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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:I read this as: buy an iPhone or get away from Verizon. You have good reading comprehension. FAUXTON posted:And it'll be a Verizon replacement phone when it gets compromised. Of course it will. Verizon doesn't care if it's secure because it doesn't impact them negatively. The fact is that no one's going to get an Apple-like deal from a carrier ever again. There is nothing Google could possibly do to change the way customers interact with the companies involved. The good news is that I'd wager that there isn't a high percentage of users who could accurately describe what roles Google, Samsung, or Verizon play in getting them their phone nor do I bet many could tell you who controls Android or who is responsible for it. Google is probably doing about as well as could possibly be hoped for between the competing interests of OEMs and carriers and I'm at a loss to imagine what they could feasibly be expected to do given the reality of the situation in the American market.
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Oct 3, 2015 13:03
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LastInLine posted:Of course it will. Verizon doesn't care if it's secure because it doesn't impact them negatively. The fact is that no one's going to get an Apple-like deal from a carrier ever again. There is nothing Google could possibly do to change the way customers interact with the companies involved. Hey, never say never. I didn't think the carriers would ever break out the cost of the phone as a separate line item instead of including it in the cost of service, but that's now the standard. However, it's definitely true that Google (and Motorola?) need to get it through their thick heads that you can't do things online-only. The real leverage for Apple isn't just their brand power, it's the Apple stores.
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Oct 3, 2015 13:20
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Rastor posted:Hey, never say never. I didn't think the carriers would ever break out the cost of the phone as a separate line item instead of including it in the cost of service, but that's now the standard. However, it's definitely true that Google (and Motorola?) need to get it through their thick heads that you can't do things online-only. The real leverage for Apple isn't just their brand power, it's the Apple stores. That's true and I almost brought that up but that's sort of the problem, isn't it? Without a viable way for consumers to separate out buying the phone from patronizing the carrier and having that become the primary way phones are purchased, the status quo will remain. Really the only way it could ever happen is if there was some carrier-agnostic place to sample every phone from every carrier and every OEM without one of those parties having a vested interest and I just don't see that happening any time soon because OEMs (and by OEMs I mean the only one that matters: Samsung) would rather pretend to be Apple and try to own the whole stack. In the end that still doesn't change the fact that Google can't do that because really, how would it benefit them aside from raising Android's star a little bit? They don't really have to care how things are for the end user as they care more about marketshare and being in the middle and let's be frank, they'll always have enough marketshare for them to be in a happy place for them. If anyone has an interest in disrupting the sales model it's the OEMs, not Google.
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Oct 3, 2015 14:00
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Google would have to become its own OEM instead of solely partnering with OEMs for the Nexus program. They tried. It won't happen. On the flip side, as I understand it Microsoft's strategy with Windows Mobile 10 seems to be hosting the servers that do the final builds for every device, down to requiring that the OEMs provide the drivers for them. It would be nicer to see what effect that has on the rest of the industry but as is they don't have enough marketshare/clout to have any impact I think.
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Oct 3, 2015 14:48
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I am greatly disappointed in the new N5 not having waterproofing or more importantly, a 64 gb option.
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Oct 3, 2015 14:54
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LastInLine posted:Why should Google update a device they didn't make, didn't write the software for, didn't sell, and don't support? Because they make a shitload of money bundling Google services with it. The OEMS aren't installing some hacked up Ubuntu fork on their devices, they get a clean stable copy of the OS with Google's services deeply embedded into it. The fact is that the OEMs couldn't move devices without access to Google services and at this point Google should withhold access to them if the OEMS don't commit to reasonable upgrade timelines. It's the same thing with the carriers, Google gave them carrier billing and data hungry phones to sell data plans for, the least they could do in exchange for that is not sit on rare updates from OEMS for months.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:23
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Shannow posted:I am greatly disappointed in the new N5 not having waterproofing or more importantly, a 64 gb option. Sorry, I'm first in the N5x disappoint line for no wireless charging.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:23
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LastInLine posted:Without a viable way for consumers to separate out buying the phone from patronizing the carrier and having that become the primary way phones are purchased, the status quo will remain. Really the only way it could ever happen is if there was some carrier-agnostic place to sample every phone from every carrier and every OEM without one of those parties having a vested interest At the risk of sounding ignorant, aren't you just describing a Carphone Warehouse-style independent phone shop? - choose a phone and how you'd prefer to pay, work out which bucket of minutes/texts/data you're comfortable with, walk out with a new phone/wait patiently for delivery? 
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Oct 3, 2015 15:26
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Internet Explorer posted:Sorry, I'm first in the N5x disappoint line for no wireless charging. Gah, stop reminding me. The N5x was so close to checking off everything I wanted.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:40
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DemonMage posted:Yeah even Stagefright 2.0 is being patched in the release on the 5th and partners were given access to the patch on September 10th. I think the release is on the 6th, but I'm hoping it's the 5th because I have a vacation to go to on the 7th and that won't give any time for the OTA/factory image to show up and be flashable. Usually the factory image takes what...a day after launch?
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Oct 3, 2015 16:01
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spincube posted:At the risk of sounding ignorant, aren't you just describing a Carphone Warehouse-style independent phone shop? - choose a phone and how you'd prefer to pay, work out which bucket of minutes/texts/data you're comfortable with, walk out with a new phone/wait patiently for delivery?
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Oct 3, 2015 16:25
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LastInLine posted:And the code is patched by Google, it was almost immediately and those patches are made available to OEMs immediately. From there it's out of Google's hands. Why should Google update a device they didn't make, didn't write the software for, didn't sell, and don't support? Yeah, I know right? Like, that's totally unheard of. A company providing software updates for hardware configurations that they've never tested! How wacky! EDIT: libstagefright wasn't even built into the linux kernel. It was a so file, the unix equivalent of a dll, yet it requires direct OEM intervention to get updated. That is stupid.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:29
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ThermoPhysical posted:I think the release is on the 6th, but I'm hoping it's the 5th because I have a vacation to go to on the 7th and that won't give any time for the OTA/factory image to show up and be flashable. Usually the factory image takes what...a day after launch?
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Oct 3, 2015 17:11
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maltesh posted:The Amazon Fire earbuds definitely work with both my Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, volume controls and all. I've been using them as my backup headphones for when my bluetooth headset is out of juice, and it's nice that I don't worry about earbud tips when I roughly stuff them in a pocket. Thanks, I'll grab some of those cheap Amzn earbuds and the Brainwavz that Star Wars Sex Parrot recommended or something similar and report back in a few weeks when my Moto X Pure gets here. I'm surprised there isn't more demand for non-isolating earbuds, especially for urban environments, at work or even for running/biking. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 17:16
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Keyser S0ze posted:Thanks, I'll grab some of those cheap Amzn earbuds and the Brainwavz that Star Wars Sex Parrot recommended or something similar and report back in a few weeks when my Moto X Pure gets here. If you want non-isolating that work with Android phones, the Xiaomi Piston 3 would fit your needs perfectly.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:58
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Is anyone else weirded out by the Moto G boot animation? The way the threads wiggle around really bothers me
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Oct 3, 2015 18:59
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SwissCM posted:Yeah, I know right? Like, that's totally unheard of. A company providing software updates for hardware configurations that they've never tested! How wacky! Of course it requires OEM intervention to have patches pushed to their products. Look at it this way - it was patched almost immediately. The fix was there. If it were as simple as 'apply patch, push to devices' the OEMs could have done it immediately. But they didn't, because you have to actually test changes before you push them out, and you have to produce your own patches to fix any problems with your OEM hardware and OEM software. Google would be crazy to take responsibility for babysitting everyone else's products and whatever special snowflake customisations they've decided to sprinkle in, and then there's the legal side of being responsible for loving up every Samsung phone on the planet in one go Like people have said, the best line is if Google makes it a condition of their Play Services terms that emergency patches get rolled out in a timely manner. Imagine if the team responsible for linux platform libraries had to develop and test it against every distribution, instead of just pushing it out and letting the distro maintainers handle their own poo poo http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/10.11/gldt1011.svg
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Oct 3, 2015 19:17
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baka kaba posted:Of course it requires OEM intervention to have patches pushed to their products. Look at it this way - it was patched almost immediately. The fix was there. If it were as simple as 'apply patch, push to devices' the OEMs could have done it immediately. But they didn't, because you have to actually test changes before you push them out, and you have to produce your own patches to fix any problems with your OEM hardware and OEM software. Google would be crazy to take responsibility for babysitting everyone else's products and whatever special snowflake customisations they've decided to sprinkle in, and then there's the legal side of being responsible for loving up every Samsung phone on the planet in one go Almost all android phones from 3 years ago are basically hosed, despite still being technically capable, powerful devices. The system as it is, with it's OS fragmentation, OEM customisations or whatever other bullshit isn't an excuse and we demonstrably can't trust OEMs to do better and keep their hardware updated. Somehow the PC ecosystem managed to solve this problem; PCs from 10 years ago can run software from today, fully patched and secure. Maybe the smartphone industry needs to just get its poo poo together and standardize.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:32
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All I can say is that I'm glad Google finally got their poo poo figured out with Verizon and Nexus is an option again, because between Lenovo's constant privacy poo poo and now Moto (possibly) not supporting the 2nd Gen Moto X on Verizon after less than a year I'm definitely making my next phone a Nexus.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:37
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SwissCM posted:Almost all android phones from 3 years ago are basically hosed, despite still being technically capable, powerful devices. The system as it is, with it's OS fragmentation, OEM customisations or whatever other bullshit isn't an excuse and we demonstrably can't trust OEMs to do better and keep their hardware updated. Somehow the PC ecosystem managed to solve this problem; PCs from 10 years ago can run software from today, fully patched and secure. Maybe the smartphone industry needs to just get its poo poo together and standardize. They're their products though. That's the thing - as businesses, they're choosing not to support older devices, even when they could technically run the newest software. If people keep giving them money, they'll keep doing it - not that people have a lot of choice if they want an Android device, hail capitalism. PCs all run Windows™, and software that runs on the Windows™ OS - they don't run some special snowflake HP version of Windows that messes with the core system and breaks software that expects standard things to work in a standard way (driver problems sure are an issue though). Samsung regularly adds poo poo that overwrites standard Android calls (because they use a name that was already being used) and guess what, apps doing standard things crash on Samsung devices because of it Google's doing a fair amount to change this and make older devices last longer, and make fragmentation less of a problem. Lots of core apps and modules are being pulled out into the Play Store, so you can get updates even if you're on an older version of Android. And the Support Library is there to backport new Android OS features and let developers use them on older devices without worrying about fragmentation. They're not perfect solutions but they do help. But at the end of the day, Android is an open source mobile OS that was made to be adopted as a base platform for manufacturers to build their own devices however they want. It was never meant to be something Google controls, which is why it's hard to start imposing those controls on every OEM
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Oct 3, 2015 19:53
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spincube posted:At the risk of sounding ignorant, aren't you just describing a Carphone Warehouse-style independent phone shop? - choose a phone and how you'd prefer to pay, work out which bucket of minutes/texts/data you're comfortable with, walk out with a new phone/wait patiently for delivery? There's a couple of options for that in the US, but there's I wouldn't be surprised if carrier-tied stores outnumber places like Best Buy 10 to 1. SwissCM posted:Almost all android phones from 3 years ago are basically hosed, despite still being technically capable, powerful devices. The system as it is, with it's OS fragmentation, OEM customisations or whatever other bullshit isn't an excuse and we demonstrably can't trust OEMs to do better and keep their hardware updated. Somehow the PC ecosystem managed to solve this problem; PCs from 10 years ago can run software from today, fully patched and secure. Maybe the smartphone industry needs to just get its poo poo together and standardize. Well, yes, you've accurately described the current situation. No one thinks things are good the way they are, but the incentives aren't aligned with solving the issues with alacrity.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:03
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Anyone been using Android Auto? Just buying a new Accord a that will supposedly support it sometime soon. Is it cool and good or hype? I didn't opt for the nav package as AA will fix that hole.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:21
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MC Hawking fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2015 21:23
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I thought the idea behind the genesis of Android was basically to achieve the exact end that it did. It existed so that carriers/OEMs could distribute smartphones and customize/brand the hell out of it, just the same as they did with flip phones. And with devices of that era, you never expected "updates;" it did what it said on the side of the box and that was it. Thing is, unlike flip phones, people now expect their devices to get updates and actual support.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:35
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kitten smoothie posted:And with devices of that era, you never expected "updates;" it did what it said on the side of the box and that was it. By the time the first Android device was launched, iOS had already updated to version 2.0, so I'm not sure your argument holds up.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:04
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Vykk.Draygo posted:By the time the first Android device was launched, iOS had already updated to version 2.0, so I'm not sure your argument holds up. And by the time Android 2.0 came out you already couldn't update that iphone to the latest iOS.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:07
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Any recommendations for car chargers and good quality USB-C cables for the upcoming Nexus phones? Right now we use the Motorola car charger with the built in Micro USB cable, but you can't detach that. I'd also like to pick up a couple of extra cables for work.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:13
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Are there any known UK shops that sell internationally and let you preorder any of the new Nexuses? I'd like to preorder and forget all about it until the postman rings me out of bed.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:30
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Rastor posted:However, it's definitely true that Google (and Motorola?) need to get it through their thick heads that you can't do things online-only. The real leverage for Apple isn't just their brand power, it's the Apple stores. I don't know about that. Apple is pretty much dominant in my part of the world, and there isn't a single Apple store in the country.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:44
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broken clock opsec posted:And by the time Android 2.0 came out you already couldn't update that iphone to the latest iOS.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:28
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Combat Pretzel posted:Are there any known UK shops that sell internationally and let you preorder any of the new Nexuses? I'd like to preorder and forget all about it until the postman rings me out of bed. Clove is the biggest one that sells internationally, they have the 5X for the same price as Google but don't have the 6P up for pre-order yet. https://www.clove.co.uk/google-nexus-5x
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Oct 3, 2015 23:37
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repiv posted:Clove is the biggest one that sells internationally, they have the 5X for the same price as Google but don't have the 6P up for pre-order yet. I need to figure out what features are lacking on the 5X in relation to the 6P and decide which one I want. The AMOLED, 1440p and aluminium body I could care less about. The rest I'm not fully aware about.
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Oct 4, 2015 00:06
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Combat Pretzel posted:Thanks. 6p has more RAM, edit: Yep, my bad about the reader, I don't know what I was thinking about. Super Dude fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 00:11
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Super Dude posted:6p has more RAM, a fingerprint reader, larger amounts of storage, and some extra camera features. 5X has the fingerprint reader too, but otherwise yeah. The camera sensors and optics are the same but the 6P has 240fps slowmo (vs 120fps), 30fps burst capture and electronic stabilization that the 5X lacks due to its weaker ISP.
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Oct 4, 2015 00:15
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The 5X has also a reader. I'm aware of the RAM, I think I can live with that until next year (that said, graphics have a lower footprint in memory, both in assets and as framebuffers, so it may not be that a dramatic of a difference). The rest you mentioned, meh. The 6P is kind of too big. My sister has the Moto Nexus 6, and while that huge thing is nice for lounging on the sofa or sitting on the crapper, anywhere else I find that size impractical. The 6P is of a similar size. I guess the 5X it is.
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Oct 4, 2015 00:16
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kitten smoothie posted:And with devices of that era, you never expected "updates;" it did what it said on the side of the box and that was it. It's not really a fair comparison. Back then, nobody kept sensitive information on their phones, so lack of updates to fix security flaws was not a concern.
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Oct 4, 2015 01:11
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Found an interesting opinion article on why Google doesn't need the Nexus line anymore, mostly because other phones have been out innovating it for a while now.
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Oct 4, 2015 01:24
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The Verge had a similar article about how the Nexus lines were, when they started, a crusade against bad clunky software and overlays, but now are just ads for the company itself.
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Oct 4, 2015 01:29
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With Motorola putting out mostly vanilla Android phones, updates are the biggest reason for Nexus devices. And that's a huge fuckin reason.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:02
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The Nexus line was the undisputed bang-for-the-buck king, with Motorola and other manufacturers going aggressively for the midrange there's now more valid choices. That said, the fear that Nexus devices pose a threat to anyone else's sales has yet to materialize. Nexus devices still have their niche, as reference devices for android developers that receive new versions before they're out to the masses.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:15
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