|
Nonsense posted:Listening to soldiers speak of their experiences from the professor who was in Gulf War I to the rest all being Iraq & Afghanistan veterans. It is all about you and your friends coming home, I don't think they'd agree much with you. That said it was still cartoonish to annihilate a hospital to eliminate perhaps 2-3 terrorists. I'd far rather our hired bullet-absorbers do their job and take fire and die gracefully than for us to loving BOMB A GODDAMN INTERNATIONALLY INDEPENDENT CHARITY HOSPITAL in an effort to fix their fuckup.
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 17:05 |
|
|
A Terrible Person posted:I'd far rather our hired bullet-absorbers do their job and take fire and die gracefully than for us to loving BOMB A GODDAMN INTERNATIONALLY INDEPENDENT CHARITY HOSPITAL in an effort to fix their fuckup. I feel like there's a more proactive solution here that doesn't have them there in the first place to create the threat they are now trying to fight
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:16
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Wouldn't it be weird if we did have a economic collapse and Bitcoin became alternative fictional currency. Like Bitcoins being seen as a legitimate currency because of economic collapse would be loving weird. I'd rather kill myself than deal with the level of smug that would emanate from the nerd set if that somehow happened.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:18
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:lmao It's still amazing every time I say it, but it's true.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:18
|
|
|
Sir Tonk posted:I'd rather kill myself than deal with the level of smug that would emanate from the nerd set if that somehow happened. Don't worry too much. The smug will last as long as it takes for scam artists to steal away their bitcoin hoard.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
fade5 posted:George W. Bush was the smart one. It's pretty amazing, we doubted sedanchair's claims about this for years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:20
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:lmao Maybe he agrees with Barbara about there being too many Bushes in the White House.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:22
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:lmao Jeb is just trying to rewrite the history books. His brother kept us safe (never mind 9/11), his brother was the hero of Katrina (forget about the New Orleans emergency response), you wouldn't legislate things like putting fences around pools to stop kids from drowning (though Jeb did exactly that), etc. It's just one of the pages from the Republican Strategy Handbook; turn your weaknesses into strengths by trying to rewrite the narrative. Of course, it doesn't seem to be helping him one bit and he just keeps on sinking in the polls.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:24
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:I feel like there's a more proactive solution here that doesn't have them there in the first place to create the threat they are now trying to fight The simple fact that self-defense for an offensive group should over-ride international law is insane. Reminds me far too much of Israel's human shield justification for firing indiscriminately in Gaza. Maternity ward? Ha! It was merely a gestation wing for larval terrorists! We HAD to blow it up, in self defense!
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:lmao Privilege bubble. He honestly thinks he's running a good campaign.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
A Terrible Person posted:The simple fact that self-defense for an offensive group should over-ride international law is insane. Reminds me far too much of Israel's human shield justification for firing indiscriminately in Gaza. If you are being shot at, you are allowed to shoot back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:28
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:If you are being shot at, you are allowed to shoot back. A statement that while technically true lacks the nuance required of these situations.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:29
|
|
|
Mystic_Shadow posted:It's just one of the pages from the Republican Strategy Handbook; turn your weaknesses into strengths by trying to rewrite the narrative. This only works if your base actually wants you to win. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Privilege bubble. He honestly thinks he's running a good campaign. That explains why he seems so put out whenever a reporter questions one of his statements.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
A Terrible Person posted:The simple fact that self-defense for an offensive group should over-ride international law is insane. Reminds me far too much of Israel's human shield justification for firing indiscriminately in Gaza. Ok dude you've been having hysterics all day about this. Who is saying 'the soldiers did nothing wrong and nothing should happen to them'? People are saying that you're being a lovely internet edgelord with the whole "STUPID SOLDIERS JUST DIE" thing and the weird blend of that with internet tough guy with the whole 'no man if that was me I'd just fuckin die'. What likely happened was a horrible, unintended, tragedy. It should be investigated, it WILL be investigated, if they were acting wrongly they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but the way things are sounding it seems like they were being shot at, they shot back, and this hospital was in the crossfire. That's terrible, and tragic, but if that is the full story there isn't a ton of 'wrong' here to bend over backwards calling for blood over. This isn't Israel raining white phosphorous on a school saying 'yea I saw a terrorist around there', it's 'we had dudes actively shooting at us, we shot back, gently caress that hospital was in the area too'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:35
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:A statement that while technically true lacks the nuance required of these situations. Seriously, how loving warped do you have to be to justify killing volunteer hospital staff and patients, including children, and injuring a bunch more, because "they shot first." Like goddamn. And now the organization is pulling out of Afghanistan altogether. There is no defense for this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:36
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Why can't we just say "Redo" and then start again with all finances. I mean if everyone's hosed why not? Clear all debt off the books and start again. It worked great for Solon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
Sir Tonk posted:I'd rather kill myself than deal with the level of smug that would emanate from the nerd set if that somehow happened. don't worry bitcoin is a joke and isn't going to supplant anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
Mystic_Shadow posted:It's just one of the pages from the Republican Strategy Handbook; turn your weaknesses into strengths by trying to rewrite the narrative. In other words, gaslight the gently caress out of everybody.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
A Terrible Person posted:The simple fact that self-defense for an offensive group should over-ride international law is insane. Reminds me far too much of Israel's human shield justification for firing indiscriminately in Gaza. You mean, recognized as valid under the law of armed conflict? It doesn't override international law - international law is what says it's okay (with some limitations and refinements Etc etc.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 03:55
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:If you are being shot at, you are allowed to shoot back. Why didn't our planes just fly away really fast? If I were in a dangerous situation and I had the choice between "blowing up a hospital and burning people alive in their beds" and "going back the way I came," I'd choose the latter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:Ok dude you've been having hysterics all day about this. Who is saying 'the soldiers did nothing wrong and nothing should happen to them'? People are saying that you're being a lovely internet edgelord with the whole "STUPID SOLDIERS JUST DIE" thing and the weird blend of that with internet tough guy with the whole 'no man if that was me I'd just fuckin die'. I recall seeing an article that said the airstrike specifically targeted the hospital's main building, and the staffers were saying that there were no active combatants inside the building. So I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:Why didn't our planes just fly away really fast? If I were in a dangerous situation and I had the choice between "blowing up a hospital and burning people alive in their beds" and "going back the way I came," I'd choose the latter. Uh you're obviously not patriotic enough to handle this decision.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Why can't we just say "Redo" and then start again with all finances. I mean if everyone's hosed why not? Clear all debt off the books and start again. But remember, we're the country that had J.P. Morgan bail Grover Cleveland and the country out with a $60 million dollar check. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Oct 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:11
|
|
|
Artificer posted:I recall seeing an article that said the airstrike specifically targeted the hospital's main building, and the staffers were saying that there were no active combatants inside the building. So I'm not sure. Right now it seems like there's a few versions going around that basically all revolve around 'a strike was targeting the hospital or the area the hospital was, either way that was a bad idea but either they didn't know people were still in it or didn't check, which also was not a good thing'. Like, there's no GOOD answer here, we're just talking if this was a normal terrible military fuckup through bad intel or what.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:12
|
|
|
Jeb reminds me of Paul Rudd's character in Parks and Recreation. "Just give me the election. C'mon, give it to me. C'mon.....Please? Please? I want it. Why won't you just give it to me? It'd be so cool if you just give it to me. Why do I have to do all this stuff?" Bobby Newport is probably a nicer guy too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:Why didn't our planes just fly away really fast? If I were in a dangerous situation and I had the choice between "blowing up a hospital and burning people alive in their beds" and "going back the way I came," I'd choose the latter. The version of events being given to the media on background, near as I can tell, is that there was a Special Operations team in the area working with a gunship that was providing close air support. They came under fire and told the gunship to shoot at what they believed to be the source of the fire, which was, oops, a hospital. Whether they were mistaken about the source of the fire, or if the crew misidentified the target, or there actually was fire coming from the hospital, or if the whole story is bullshit, is as yet unclear.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
at least they weren't using...barrel bombs :shensay:
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:Why didn't our planes just fly away really fast? If I were in a dangerous situation and I had the choice between "blowing up a hospital and burning people alive in their beds" and "going back the way I came," I'd choose the latter. they should have engaged teh cloaking device as well e: also the "remove fog of war" cheat e2: i'm aware this is confrontational but i can't help but roll my eyes at some of the posts regarding this horrific event Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:24
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:The version of events being given to the media on background, near as I can tell, is that there was a Special Operations team in the area working with a gunship that was providing close air support. They came under fire and told the gunship to shoot at what they believed to be the source of the fire, which was, oops, a hospital. Whether they were mistaken about the source of the fire, or if the crew misidentified the target, or there actually was fire coming from the hospital, or if the whole story is bullshit, is as yet unclear. So what? The special operations people should have run away, too. If I recall correctly the military's real big on running, especially if you're in special ops. They should have put those skills to use and run away, that way fewer people would have been hurt. In fact they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you're in a bad spot and people are trying to hurt you, you should probably leave. Pushing a button that causes doctors and children to explode and burn to death probably shouldn't be your go-to response. Nostalgia4Infinity posted:they should have engaged teh cloaking device as well I don't get it. Cloaking devices are not a real option. "Turn around and leave" is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:28
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:So what? The special operations people should have run away, too. If I recall correctly the military's real big on running, especially if you're in special ops. They should have put those skills to use and run away, that way fewer people would have been hurt. In fact they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you're in a bad spot and people are trying to hurt you, you should probably leave. Pushing a button that causes doctors and children to explode and burn to death probably shouldn't be your go-to response. Because sometimes running away is really loving hard if bullets are hitting everywhere except the one spot behind the wall you're cowering at.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:So what? The special operations people should have run away, too. If I recall correctly the military's real big on running, especially if you're in special ops. They should have put those skills to use and run away, that way fewer people would have been hurt. In fact they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you're in a bad spot and people are trying to hurt you, you should probably leave. Pushing a button that causes doctors and children to explode and burn to death probably shouldn't be your go-to response. Except when it isn't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:So what? The special operations people should have run away, too. If I recall correctly the military's real big on running, especially if you're in special ops. They should have put those skills to use and run away, that way fewer people would have been hurt. In fact they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you're in a bad spot and people are trying to hurt you, you should probably leave. Pushing a button that causes doctors and children to explode and burn to death probably shouldn't be your go-to response. There's not really always an easy exit. Like, I'm sure these guys were probably taught at some point 'you should run if poo poo gets real' but you kinda can't always run away from everything like a Pokemon fight. Also 'probably shouldn't have been there in the first place' is kinda hindsight isn't it? I'm sure most would agree almost any military thing that ends with a lot of dead people probably would have been better if it didn't happen that way. e: also see my issue here is with the 'push a button that makes doctors explode'. We have so far zero evidence that that's how it went. We don't know how it went, but it's looking a lot like lovely intelligence more than 'buahaha gently caress those doctors! BRING THE FIRE'
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:lmao I'm honestly not sure Jeb wants to be president beyond "well my dad did it and my brother did it so I need to or I'm the failure of the family."
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
I wouldn't blow up a charity hospital to save my life. I'd hope the same is true for most people. If the mistake here involved not knowing that they'd hit a hospital, that's one kind of horrible fuckup. If it involved knowingly blasting the hospital in order to recover from a previous mistake, then I'm at a loss for words. But yeah, we need to wait and learn what exactly happened here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
We're still in the stage of things where a bunch of really furious and tense people are writing, reading, and digesting a series of vaguely panicked after action reports. Once that happens we will know more about where this falls on the spectrum from "tragic accident that should never have happened" to "flippant disregard for laws of war." Immediately jumping to "kill all the bloodthirsty baby eating soldiers" seems like gilding the lily a bit. Someone, likely multiple someones, hosed up. Hopefully we can figure out who and how and what degree of flippant disregard for civilian casualties there was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:You would lose your job, I would lose my job, and one of the central underpinnings of the global financial order would come crashing down bringing chaos. http://www.politico.com/story/2011/07/bachmann-debt-deal-failing-wont-cause-default-060172 It's literally Underpants Gnome logic. Tea Party Steps to Better Government: 1.) Cause government to default 2.) ??? 3.) Profit
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
A school shooting in California was averted a few days ago. Four students were plotting to shoot everyone they could plus they had a hit list.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
Ditocoaf posted:I wouldn't blow up a charity hospital to save my life. I'd hope the same is true for most people. Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with your first sentence. But still in the thick of things, it can be really hard to think straight. I'm not excusing them, but I can see why someone in that situation, not having the time to consider things carefully, would immediately want the bullets to go away as soon as possible. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:45
|
|
|
Sharkie posted:So what? The special operations people should have run away, too. If I recall correctly the military's real big on running, especially if you're in special ops. They should have put those skills to use and run away, that way fewer people would have been hurt. In fact they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you're in a bad spot and people are trying to hurt you, you should probably leave. Pushing a button that causes doctors and children to explode and burn to death probably shouldn't be your go-to response. I'm trying to figure out how you're visualizing this scene. Like, are you picturing a bunch of SF guys standing behind reinforced concrete (that also protects their escape route) and saying into their radio "blow up that big building that says 'hospital' on the front"? What kind of situation are you imagining where they can just run away without whoever is shooting at them gunning them down as they leave cover, and where it's inconceivable the hospital wasn't both obviously a hospital and obviously occupied? Somebody clearly hosed up, I'm not saying otherwise, but I get the feeling you're not clear on what taking enemy fire entails. Edit: phone posting is slow posting
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 17:05 |
|
|
what if a terrorist in the hospital had a nuke that would kill time square and you had to kill the maternity ward what then sharkie?
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2015 04:47
|
|