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Dead Reckoning posted:Wait, do you really believe that nothing bad has ever been caused by people acting in good faith with incomplete information? Different standards of negligence, I think.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:42
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Not that this will help in any way, shape, or form, but this was not a bombing, as far as I can tell. It was not a cruise missile, it was not drones. It was an attack by a Spectre gunship, probably mortar fire from it. (Which explode like a bomb, yes, making the MSF doctors reasonably accurate in calling it a bombing - it's not like it sounds that different when you're under it.) What this means is that it is more akin to someone carefully choosing to shoot a location, rather than picking a spot and deciding to drop things on it. Someone had to call for that specific location to be attacked. We don't know why, yet, or if there was a screw up and they actually meant a block over. But someone specifically called for it, and the people calling for it were most probably on the ground and nearby. On the other hand, we've called in A-10 strikes on allied forces before.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:48
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Meanwhile, people are posting more shooting threats on 4chan now that it's the cool thing to do (this time at colleges in Philadelphia) so look forward to schools being closed everywhere for a while.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:50
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Warcabbit posted:Not that this will help in any way, shape, or form, but this was not a bombing, as far as I can tell. It was not a cruise missile, it was not drones. It was an attack by a Spectre gunship, probably mortar fire from it. (Which explode like a bomb, yes, making the MSF doctors reasonably accurate in calling it a bombing - it's not like it sounds that different when you're under it.) Mortars are bombs
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Oct 5, 2015 13:52
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Has there been any new information on the Oregon shooter? I thought that one of the news stories claims he gave someone a flash drive and a "manifesto" but don't see any other follow up on the story.
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Oct 5, 2015 14:01
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Luigi Thirty posted:Meanwhile, people are posting more shooting threats on 4chan now that it's the cool thing to do (this time at colleges in Philadelphia) so look forward to schools being closed everywhere for a while. I work at a school in the area. We got an email from our head of security about it. None of the schools are closing, since it's non-specific, but there is definitely a larger presence of police in the area.
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Oct 5, 2015 14:09
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Hollismason posted:Has there been any new information on the Oregon shooter? I thought that one of the news stories claims he gave someone a flash drive and a "manifesto" but don't see any other follow up on the story. They haven't released it other than saying it describes a philosophy of "racial and social hate."
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Oct 5, 2015 14:10
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Warcabbit posted:Not that this will help in any way, shape, or form, but this was not a bombing, as far as I can tell. It was not a cruise missile, it was not drones. It was an attack by a Spectre gunship, probably mortar fire from it. (Which explode like a bomb, yes, making the MSF doctors reasonably accurate in calling it a bombing - it's not like it sounds that different when you're under it.) ....they don't carry mortars. Most Spectres have a 105mm Howitzer, 2 40mm Bofors, and a 30mm Gatling. I mean, they can vary the loadout, but I've never heard of one with a mortar. Luigi Thirty posted:They haven't released it other than saying it describes a philosophy of "racial and social hate." The Christian Right are going to be sorely disappointed if it doesn't include 'Kill All Christians', since that has been their rallying cry over the shooting. Huckabee was on CNN this morning moaning about the sin and immorality of America and how it is the cause of these tribulations. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 14:39
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Why would you need to fire a mortar from an airplane?
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Oct 5, 2015 14:41
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Luigi Thirty posted:Why would you need to fire a mortar from an airplane?
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Oct 5, 2015 14:55
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I don't think the MSF doctors are trained to be able to make a distinction between a bomb, a missile or a mortar. Their hospital got blown the hell up, and if you don't see contrails or other evidence of rocketry and you instead see/hear something that has the properties of a ballistic something (plus however distorted your account is by being in the middle of that chaotic situation), bomb is the descriptor you're probably going to reach for.
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Oct 5, 2015 14:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:I don't think the MSF doctors are trained to be able to make a distinction between a bomb, a missile or a mortar. Yeah, this. It was most likely a 105mm HE shell. Either way, someone hosed up.
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Oct 5, 2015 14:57
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Repost from the US Senate thread: Maggie Hassan is running for Senate in NH. Bad news for Ayotte.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:07
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, this. It was most likely a 105mm HE shell.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:10
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Looks like NAFTA 2: Asia Boogaloo reached agreement
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Oct 5, 2015 15:14
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Samurai Sanders posted:No American military person is ever going to be tried by an international war crimes court though, right? If the US wants to hang a soldier the military justice system is perfectly capable of doing that without any help from the Belgians.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:No American military person is ever going to be tried by an international war crimes court though, right? Nope. They'll get demoted and many fingers will be wagged, but nothing will happen.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:29
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Luigi Thirty posted:Why would you need to fire a mortar from an airplane? Extra distance, maybe.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:32
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Booourns posted:I find it hard to believe that some terrorists would think that a hospital would provide them cover, like the US has ever had a problem with killing innocent people
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Oct 5, 2015 15:37
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Oracle posted:Innocent people, no. Innocent white Western upper class doctors? Yeah, that'll generate some heat. I'm pretty sure they keep security on sites for this exact reason, plus the standard medical precautions of not letting family members into the OR, etc.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:43
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CommieGIR posted:....they don't carry mortars. Most Spectres have a 105mm Howitzer, 2 40mm Bofors, and a 30mm Gatling. They were talking about upgrading it with a mortar. (this will teach me to go off memory rather than checking specs on something.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130 quote:There were also plans to possibly replace the 105 mm cannon with a breech-loading 120 mm M120 mortar, and to give the AC-130 a standoff capability using either the AGM-114 Hellfire missile, the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (based on the Hydra 70 rocket), or the Viper Strike glide bomb The key bit of difference between aimed and dropped weapons is precision - they hit what they aimed at within a number of feet - this may have been mis-tasked, or targeted badly, but it's not a case of 'aimed at one thing and hit another'. gradenko_2000 posted:I don't think the MSF doctors are trained to be able to make a distinction between a bomb, a missile or a mortar. This is exactly what I was saying - MSF are accurate in calling it 'being bombed' from their perspective. Luigi Thirty posted:Why would you need to fire a mortar from an airplane? Bigger bang. The difference between 105mm and 120mm is huge. Warcabbit fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 15:54
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Oracle posted:Innocent people, no. Innocent white Western upper class doctors? Yeah, that'll generate some heat. I think I read that everyone killed was Afghan
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Oct 5, 2015 16:01
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Luigi Thirty posted:Why would you need to fire a mortar from an airplane? Better sight lines and cheaper than bombs of equal accuracy. From the ground you're arcing a shell over any number of terrain features but from the air you're basically hurling it right down onto their heads. Dumb bombs are probably more accurate than they were in the 40s due to better sights but they're still basically aero-stabilized bricks of explosive dropped from the plane. A mortar has a charge behind it and a known (albeit a combination of airspeed/height/barrel direction) vector along which it's being fired, allowing for more predictable variables when the computer is sighting it. For that level of accuracy you need something like a JDAM (I believe they're still more expensive than a shell) or a cruise missile (way more expensive but capable of delivering more boom and different payloads). Also there's probably something there about having eyes on the actual target to avoid blowing up a hospital under the belief that it's a terror mountain but clearly that doesn't mean a goddamn thing.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:19
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France rules and every CEO in America should face this sort of consequence for their lovely actions: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34445379 quote:Two Air France managers were forced to flee a meeting about job cuts after angry workers broke into the room.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:28
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Samurai Sanders posted:No American military person is ever going to be tried by an international war crimes court though, right? No. We try our own. No international court would be able to get much out of the US Military if there were such a thing anyway.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:30
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pathetic little tramp posted:France rules and every CEO in America should face this sort of consequence for their lovely actions: How much do we bet there was an impromptu guillotine being built next door.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:33
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Zeroisanumber posted:No. We try our own. No international court would be able to get much out of the US Military if there were such a thing anyway. There very much is such a thing, its called the ICC, and the U.S. explicitly states we don't believe in it.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:34
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/quote:The airstrike that killed 22 people at a Doctor’s without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan was requested by Afghan forces, not U.S. troops, according to the top U.S. general in Afghanistan.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:35
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I totally buy Afghan forces would do that.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:37
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Trabisnikof posted:the U.S. explicitly states we don't believe in it.  It's also why SOFAs are so important to the US.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:38
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I totally buy Afghan forces would do that. Same but US forces
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Oct 5, 2015 16:39
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I totally buy Afghan forces would do that. I mean, even giving them guns is a bad idea but they'd get those anyway.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:41
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I totally buy Afghan forces would do that. It's such a believable excuse that I'm actually having a hard time believing it.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:43
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Warcabbit posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/ Well there's an explanation that actually makes sense.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:45
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I'm reminded of a horrific air strike, also in Kunduz, where USAF F-15Es killed over 60 civilians after a German general ordered that strike. Germany ended up paying the families $5000 per victim.
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Oct 5, 2015 16:50
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Warcabbit posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/ I'm not doubting that we're dumb enough to allow it but...why do we let Afghan forces say 'yo airstrike now' like it's loving CoD?
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Oct 5, 2015 16:53
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In a classic move out of the Ron Paul playbook, Carly Fiorina has decided to show how fiscally conservative she is by not paying staffers from her failed 2010 campaign. 
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Oct 5, 2015 17:16
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Phone posted:In a classic move out of the Ron Paul playbook, Carly Fiorina has decided to show how fiscally conservative she is by not paying staffers from her failed 2010 campaign. She didn't get elected, so clearly their performance was unsatisfactory.
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Oct 5, 2015 17:22
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm not doubting that we're dumb enough to allow it but...why do we let Afghan forces say 'yo airstrike now' like it's loving CoD?
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Oct 5, 2015 17:23
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Well theoretically the US would like them to become a real country that can be trusted to have an army without instantly descending into warlordism and atrocity. In reality Afghanistan is a country that couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse and there isn't any point in the foreseeable future when the Afghan government should be trusted to wipe their own asses let alone call in airstrikes. afghanistan is a country created by russia and britain agreeing to a buffer no man's land between the chunks of territory they took over from Iran decolonization strikes again lol
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Oct 5, 2015 17:30
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