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PRADA SLUT posted:See, this is what I'm talking about. There are some people that just can't handle the idea that they'll lose an occasional game due to really bad draws, even if they think they did everything absolutely perfectly. There's no way to convince those people that any expansion is going to be fun, so they probably shouldn't even play the game at all.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:19
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Gutter Owl posted:But tabletop gaming (and comics and SFF and everything else territorial nerd babies get butthurt about) has seen an increasing female audience since since the rise of Amazon et al, which lets gal hobbyists bypass the comic shop creepshows and create our own enclaves. And the tradgames industry players need to adapt or die, because they're getting hardcore competed out of the profitable sectors of the niche by publishers that treat us like humans. Agreed, these titty miniature games aren't competing very well on Kickstarter at all.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:32
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Gutter Owl posted:Y'know what? You're right. It's not the titty miniatures that keep women out of gaming. It's the people who sell the titty miniatures, and the people who buy them. That's basically my point, calling for the end of titty minatures isn't going to put an end to gross people. The supply doesn't create the demand, the demand creates the supply.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:40
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I walk past a group of undergrads in the student union every week who play chess competitively at night. Probably 30 people there with chessboards and timers, and men are not overrepresented in that group like you'd see in a group playing Magic or any other random sampling of STEM students. Maybe in a few years we'll see more Grandmadams joining the chess list!
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Oct 6, 2015 19:40
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Soothing Vapors posted:Agreed, these titty miniature games aren't competing very well on Kickstarter at all. Kickstarter is not a very good metric for actual success. How many of those kickstarted titty games get much attention after the KS is over and done?
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Oct 6, 2015 20:10
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depends how many zombies there are in it too
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Oct 6, 2015 20:18
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golden bubble posted:There are bad draws in Dominion as well. It's called shuffling your deck. The problem is market row draws are closer to building a MTG deck and rolling a dice to create a random banlist. Who wants their deck type to be hosed over by a random banlist? People who can't cope with the idea of a loss that they have only themselves to blame for.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:20
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Esser-Z posted:Kickstarter is not a very good metric for actual success. How many of those kickstarted titty games get much attention after the KS is over and done? Kickstarter is a big metric of success in the trad games world though. You could even argue it's a dominant force, when major companies use it as a platform to raise millions and release content exclusives through it.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:22
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Esser-Z posted:Kickstarter is not a very good metric for actual success. PlaneGuy posted:depends how many zombies there are in it too God help us all if they make a titty zombie game
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Oct 6, 2015 20:27
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After you've played enough Dominion, the correct strategies become fairly evident. In groups of similarly skilled players, the game is mostly determined by how well your deck spits out good hands and who makes the better decision of when to shift into endgame. Ascension just lets you get straight to the luck portion without the nuisance of playing 100 games first .
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Oct 6, 2015 20:29
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Soothing Vapors posted:what Hey guys check out my new boardgame kickstarter, please support me! It will have over 50 lead miniatures, an excellent weight to price ratio. *actual gameplay sold separately* 
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Oct 6, 2015 20:33
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Rutibex posted:That's basically my point, calling for the end of titty minatures isn't going to put an end to gross people. The supply doesn't create the demand, the demand creates the supply. You're a misogynist moron who should stop playing board games because you're the gross person.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:40
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MorphineMike posted:You're a misogynist moron who should stop playing board games because you're the gross person. Or Rutibex has always been an incredibly successful performance artist masquerading as the worst of board gamers.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:43
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Some Numbers posted:Or Rutibex has always been an incredibly successful performance artist masquerading as the worst of board gamers. 
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Oct 6, 2015 20:46
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Some Numbers posted:Or Rutibex has always been an incredibly successful performance artist masquerading as the worst of board gamers. Is there a difference between the worst of board gamers and someone who goes through life acting like one ironically?
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Oct 6, 2015 20:46
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Gonna make a Kickstarter for Senran Kagura: The Tactical Miniatures Game.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:52
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Huxley posted:After you've played enough Dominion, the correct strategies become fairly evident. In groups of similarly skilled players, the game is mostly determined by how well your deck spits out good hands and who makes the better decision of when to shift into endgame. Nah, not really. Read any article on Dominion Strategy, or look at the game logs of a high level game to see how there are multiple approaches to victory depending on the board. At the level of play you're talking about the meaningful choice is less "I'm going for a Duke Engine over a Province Win" and more "I bought Masquerade on turn 2 instead of turn 5", but the luck is still pretty marginal. Also lol at "well it's a lovely game that you have to play hundreds of games to master!"
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Oct 6, 2015 20:53
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MorphineMike posted:Is there a difference between the worst of board gamers and someone who goes through life acting like one ironically? I try not to mention boardgames in real life, people always make fun of me when I do 
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Oct 6, 2015 20:56
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sector_corrector posted:Also lol at "well it's a lovely game that you have to play hundreds of games to master!" Never said it was a lovely game, just that Ascension cuts to the luck more directly, which can be better and more fun. Especially for playgroups with large skill differentials.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:06
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Chomp8645 posted:Gonna make a Kickstarter for Senran Kagura: The Tactical Miniatures Game. I'll fund it if it has a Barbarossa crossover module.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:06
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Andarel posted:The problem with Rise of Vigil was cards like Lifebound Muse and Righteous Templar (and to a lesser extent Tablet of the Dreamer) being extremely swingy at 60-80 because of the distribution of 2-3 energy in your deck possibly giving huge economy swings really early in the game. That's actually one of the points the devs brought up with the new expansion, was they liked the idea of energy mechanic, but not the implementation. They're doing the new mechanic in a way that gives everyone a slow influx of dream tokens, with certain cards in the center row offering an extra one when they're taken. Since dream tokens carry over between turns, you can spend them on a few cheap cards early on, or save them multiple turns for something big down the road, and depending on what you select at the start, some middle row cards will be more or less valuable to different players. 120 honor works fine, but it switches the entire balance of the game around. It's not unbalanced, it's just completely different done. You either have to go heavy trash/draw, or a huge push toward constructs. Bottom Liner posted:I play a lot of Ascension on the iPad, and I think that Dawn of Champions and this new expansion is a step back from the last few. I think the game peaked at Rise of Vigil and Darkness Unleashed, playing with 120 stars. With that setup, RNG was minimized and you could reliably build towards certain engines and capitalize on a certain strategy the majority of the time. The new ones that give you a champion or the draft cards are a cool idea, but then if the corresponding cards don't reveal themselves at the right time you get completely screwed and can't compete with someone that got what fit their preselected stuff. I like DoC, the only thing I don't like, is the chained Rally, even though the probability is fairly low (1/64ish for a triple, considering multifacs and nonfacs). It mentally feels swingy sometimes, but I'd say that it's only actually turned a game about 10% of the time. I actually found more success just playing the game like normal, ignoring your faction bias after you get your hero to your deck, which you'll get really quickly.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:21
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Huxley posted:Never said it was a lovely game, just that Ascension cuts to the luck more directly, which can be better and more fun. Especially for playgroups with large skill differentials. People like to mock luck based games, but I always like to have a few of them around for just this reason. It gets boring having the same people win game after game.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:23
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People are good at different things. Not every game that lets players make meaningful decisions is a Euro. Getting destroyed by people who have barely played Monopoly at Pictomania/Avalon/Click Clack/Skull/etc is awesome.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:31
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Yeah, it comes down to the quarterbacking issue, I think, and why people play games in the first place (and the whole spike/johnny/timmy triad). Some people want to exert their will and have their superior play be rewarded, and they feel insulted by a game whose mechanics don't feed that desire. Ascension is a bad game because the market row can have more influence on the outcome than their play. This is the guy who is going to take over a game of Pandemic, because he'd rather you do the right thing and reach a positive outcome than have you make a mistake and impact his reward at the end. His Mage Knight turns take 20 minutes. Some people want to see huge crazy things happen and it's not important whether they win or lose, so long as it was memorable. Dominion is a bad game because the only moment of excitement and discovery is flipping over the kingdom cards. You reveal, you pick out what you're going to do, and after that you're just masturbating the mechanics. This guy probably loves traitor games, since those make for big moments and lots of yelling and couldn't give a poo poo if the traitor wrecks everything and wins. This is the guy who saves up a ton of bullets then unloads everything at a random person on the third round in Bang! His Mage Knight turns take about 90 seconds and he gets knocked out more often than anyone else. Some people want an experience that everyone walks away from happy. If they bring a new game and win twice in a row, they're liable to suggest swapping to something else just so nobody else at the table gets a sour taste for it. They tend to gravitate toward party games and co-op experiences and get their pleasure from seeing a tableful of people interacting at the same time. He just wants to host the party and for everyone to have a good time. His Mage Knight turns go pretty quick because he's lagging about a tile behind everybody else, just happy someone is having fun with his copy of Mage Knight.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:54
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Huxley posted:Yeah, it comes down to the quarterbacking issue, I think, and why people play games in the first place (and the whole spike/johnny/timmy triad). I think I am about 40% the last category and 30% the two others. My Mage Knight turn takes 20 minutes though. Espescially since I spent the downtime between my hands helping my co op players plan theirs.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:19
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the gaming triad or w/e you call it really undermines how complex people are imho. like it's a marketing tool that people try to apply sociologically or psychologically because everyone likes saying "I'm a Johnny mixed with a Spike" and it just doesn't work.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:21
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Huxley posted:Yeah, it comes down to the quarterbacking issue, I think, and why people play games in the first place (and the whole spike/johnny/timmy triad). I don't really think that people exist on a sliding scale between 'competitive gamers' and 'considerate people,' but it's possible I'm not reading your post very charitably. There's no real correlation between a taste for competitive games and having AP. Rutibex: I like your schtick the majority of the time, but I wish you wouldn't do this particular bit. Having ironic insane opinions about board games doesn't contribute to an overall lovely world, but making half of the population feel excluded from something does.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:31
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Countblanc posted:the gaming triad or w/e you call it really undermines how complex people are imho. like it's a marketing tool that people try to apply sociologically or psychologically because everyone likes saying "I'm a Johnny mixed with a Spike" and it just doesn't work. Agreed. I play a lot of board games that don't have huge random elements to them (Argent, Kemet, Tash-Kalar) but I manage to have a fun time even when I get trounced and one of my primary goals when bringing any game to the table is "make sure everyone is having a good time" or else what's the point? Also every time someone brings up how games with lots of randomness can be good for newer/less-skilled players because it lets them win sometimes they always seem to overlook how those newer, less-skilled players can just as easily wind up completely hosed over by that same randomness that's being held up as a selling point. Imagine introducing someone new to Magic by having to explain to them "oh yeah man, you got totally mana screwed, well you're probably gonna lose that game, sucks but them's the breaks, wanna go again?" (Also if Ascension is anything like Thunderstone then the issue isn't "ewwwww, it's random," it's that it's random and takes for loving ever. I'm not wasting two+ hours of my finite free time to sit around a table and go "well, guess I'll skip my turn again" until the luck gods smile on me and allow me to actually Do A Thing.)
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Oct 6, 2015 22:33
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Ascension is pretty fun. In app form.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:36
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SynthOrange posted:Ascension is pretty fun. Was it fozzy who called Star Realms "competitive Angry Birds" cause it's a great analogy
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Oct 6, 2015 22:39
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Kai Tave posted:(Also if Ascension is anything like Thunderstone then the issue isn't "ewwwww, it's random," it's that it's random and takes for loving ever. I'm not wasting two+ hours of my finite free time to sit around a table and go "well, guess I'll skip my turn again" until the luck gods smile on me and allow me to actually Do A Thing.) SynthOrange posted:Ascension is pretty fun. Yeah you can bang out a full game in 10 minutes or so on the app.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:39
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SynthOrange posted:Ascension is pretty fun. The app is a real piece of poo poo, but I have to admit getting good enough to whomp on the hard AI was worth 10 dollars. I'd still call it a poorly designed game, though. I can't loving imagine playing it physically, especially with an AP player.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:41
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I'm willing to put up with a lot of random bullshit if it's over quickly enough. Bang! Dice isn't my idea of a go-to game but gently caress it, it takes like 10-15 minutes to finish a game so when people at board game night insist that we have to do something all together and can't just break off into two groups of 5-6 or something and someone pulls out Bang! Dice it's like, yeah okay, at least it's not Munchkin. If something's going to take an hour+ along with associated setup/takedown time? Then yeah, it needs to be more than an exercise in getting hosed by the RNG for my money, sorry. edit; also going back to the Timmy/Spike/Johnny analogy, anyone who takes 20 minute turns in any game for any reason is going to get a polite request to maybe hurry things up once, then the egg timer is coming out.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:44
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sector_corrector posted:The app is a real piece of poo poo, but I have to admit getting good enough to whomp on the hard AI was worth 10 dollars. I'd still call it a poorly designed game, though. I can't loving imagine playing it physically, especially with an AP player. What? It's probably the best board game app I've seen yet, only rivaled by the Carc app. And beating the hard AI is absolutely trivial if you know deckbuilder basics.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:48
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Kai Tave posted:edit; also going back to the Timmy/Spike/Johnny analogy, anyone who takes 20 minute turns in any game for any reason is going to get a polite request to maybe hurry things up once, then the egg timer is coming out. Well, you'll just have to find a new group to conquer North Africa with <  >
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Oct 6, 2015 22:49
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canyoneer posted:Well, you'll just have to find a new group to conquer North Africa with < Just hurry up and loving boil your drat pasta already, I've got fuel evaporation rates to calculate here.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:03
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Soothing Vapors posted:what And here I just assumed as a matter of course that those existed in Kingdom Death
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Oct 6, 2015 23:05
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Bottom Liner posted:What? It's probably the best board game app I've seen yet, only rivaled by the Carc app. And beating the hard AI is absolutely trivial if you know deckbuilder basics. It's a huge piece of poo poo on the PC. Depending on what you're trying to do sometime you have to right click on the card to get to the interaction menu, sometimes you can only drag it, sometimes you just click and it works. Constructs that should automatically generate resources need to be clicked on for some obscure reason. The whole thing is flashy and ugly, with a shitload of unnecessary animations. Dominion.NET is free, and better by miles. As to the difficulty, it didn't take me long, but at first I found it difficult to gauge how valuable honor was over card points. Like I said, it was entertaining, but not very deep.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:50
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Sorry I lit the fuse regarding titty miniatures. In other news, the Game of Thrones LCG re-releases this week with a new addition. I'm really hoping that I can convince my GF to give it a serious shot. I tried teaching her Netrunner, but the theme just isn't in her wheelhouse. I'm sure there will be a league at my FLGS, but my weeknights are already kinda busy and it'd be nice to be able to play at any given time.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:19
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Rutibex posted:Woman just don't like board games on average. There are currently 1463 male chess grandmasters in the world, and only 33 female. Chess is not a sexualized game at all, so it can't be misogyny that's keeping woman from playing it. Given that any board game is going to have a 98% male audience, it stands to reason that it should be marketed in ways that appeal to men. I understand the need and appropriateness of making things that will sell, but just because you see a market as 98% male doesn't mean that 100% of women and 2% of males aren't even a factor. Nor does it mean that 98% of all males are ones that make up your market. It doesn't even mean that your poo poo won't sell unless you neckbeard it up. You're also mixing up a number of other things in your post. Women not liking games - board or otherwise - doesn't match many peoples' observations and experience. "Women don't like board games" and "98% male" you'll find are biases formed by your own perceptions and experience if you think of them as givens. I think experience outside your own focus will challenge the ideas you have on this. A group being under-represented in group X doesn't have to mean that they are turned off by thing X. Chess isn't a sexualized game but that is by no means the only possible reason a person might stay away from a chess group. Heck, I checked out a local group that should be right up my alley because I like to make things and wanted to be with and share with others who find that interesting, too. I am not a member because as a group I found it off-putting and tiresome. To me it wasn't a group, it was a perpetual out-smirking out-smart[rear end]ing contest. I and others are not members - and not because we don't like tools or making things. Because it's an old-boys group with a dynamic I find tiresome at best and poisonous at worst. I think earlier it was said very well that there's only so much poo poo you're willing to put up with for something that's intended to be for enjoyment.
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