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Fintilgin posted:We need a name for the disease when you really want to play a game of EUIV (or some other Paradox game) but you're holding off because the next patch/dlc sounds so cool that you don't want to play. True. Though Wiz has dropped lots of hints that 1.14 is very far off in the distance. I can't wait to play another Golden Horde game though. Getting Great Khan was heaps of fun.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:20
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:True. Though Wiz has dropped lots of hints that 1.14 is very far off in the distance. Horde Ideas are amazing. No cost for reinforcing, and -10 years of separatism. Boners, boners everywhere.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:21
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Fintilgin posted:We need a name for the disease when you really want to play a game of EUIV (or some other Paradox game) but you're holding off because the next patch/dlc sounds so cool that you don't want to play.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:31
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Node posted:Horde Ideas are amazing. No cost for reinforcing, and -10 years of separatism. Boners, boners everywhere. All military bonuses too. Then you toss Humanism in there to get more separatism reduction and religious tolerance, and cheese the overseas core cost mechanic, and you just roll over everyone. If only they had +3 Heathen Tolerance too.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:37
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PittTheElder posted:All military bonuses too. Then you toss Humanism in there to get more separatism reduction and religious tolerance, and cheese the overseas core cost mechanic, and you just roll over everyone. If only they had +3 Heathen Tolerance too. Kazan is the Tolerance HordeTM with +2 heathen tolerance and +25% religious unity on top of free reinforcements. They're also probably the weakest western horde, but if you can get going as them, they're probably second only to the Ottomans in their ability to paint the map with Tolerance.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:44
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PittTheElder posted:All military bonuses too. Then you toss Humanism in there to get more separatism reduction and religious tolerance, and cheese the overseas core cost mechanic, and you just roll over everyone. If only they had +3 Heathen Tolerance too. Oirat gets a decision for permanent +2 Heathen Tolerance and there is potential for a TON of religion-swapping fuckery as they start Tengri with a bunch of Sunni and Vajrayana provinces. Of course they're getting the syncretic faith thing in the patch.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:01
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+2 Tolerance decision eh? That's pretty killer. Terrible color on them though. I wish Mongolia was formable.Dibujante posted:Kazan is the Tolerance HordeTM with +2 heathen tolerance and +25% religious unity on top of free reinforcements. They're also probably the weakest western horde, but if you can get going as them, they're probably second only to the Ottomans in their ability to paint the map with Tolerance.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:03
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PittTheElder posted:+2 Tolerance decision eh? That's pretty killer. Terrible color on them though. I wish Mongolia was formable. Yup you can choose between Black and Yellow Shamanism as Tengri, one is 2% MS and the other is +2 Heathen Tolerance. Considering the complete mess of religions, the Heathen Tolerance is really baller.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:10
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PittTheElder posted:Well I'd put them behind Bengal or Bahmanis I think, but yeah, some of that does look sweet. +15% land morale is pretty amazing, though it's tough trading that against +20% Manpower Recovery. Probably a moot point though, because with the new expansion it'll be foolish to not pick one of the eastern Tengri hordes. If the Manchu hordes get the syncreist Tengri religion, I will be so happy. 20% reduced Land Maintenance, horde government and no cost reinforcement is just such an absurd early game advantage, add onto that needing just 3 idea picks in admin to rock a 45% coring discount and things get sort of absurd super quick. If they also get to tailor their Tengri bonus on top of that, it'll be wonderful  (The Manchu idea set is probably my overall favorite in the entire game tbh)
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Oct 6, 2015 23:14
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I need some advice with my Manchu game. Going for Qing. Ming has been my pal and we were beating up our mutual rival Oriat, when after the war they immediately rivalled me and started supporting the independence of one of my vassals. They had no claims on Oriat, so there was no malus for that. They have no new mission. I didn't gain any new border with them. They just decided to gently caress me hard. Does anyone have any advice for keeping them not rivalled, or is it inevitable?
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Oct 6, 2015 23:29
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Tsyni posted:I need some advice with my Manchu game. Going for Qing. Ming has been my pal and we were beating up our mutual rival Oriat, when after the war they immediately rivalled me and started supporting the independence of one of my vassals. They had no claims on Oriat, so there was no malus for that. They have no new mission. I didn't gain any new border with them. They just decided to gently caress me hard. Does anyone have any advice for keeping them not rivalled, or is it inevitable? Basically, as soon as you get big enough for Ming to rival you, they probably will, even if you have a ton of positive modifiers with them. gently caress them as soon as you possibly can, because they will do the same. Focus on grabbing the Manchu hordes as well as the gold mine in Buryatia, try to kill Korea before they ally Ming and if ever Ming loses the Mandate of Heaven, pile in and skyrocket their war exhaustion to splinter them completely.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:37
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Ming doesn't have many rivals to choose from. I haven't played as them yet, but I don't think they even have any valid rivals at game start? So most likely they will pick a rival as soon as one becomes powerful enough. Or they might not. Who knows!
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Oct 6, 2015 23:39
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I'm doing the same thing right now, playing Manchu, and I got absurdly lucky. Declared war on the Oirat and Ming sent all their soldiers to die in Outer Mongolia. They somehow managed to lose their entire army and as soon as the war was over I broke alliance and war-decced them. Lured their remaining mercs North and squatted on Bejing aftewards. Unfortunately, they're making a come back now that the truce is over. I find the best way to handle Ming is to get strong early, lure them into your territory, and murder their garbage soldiers with the steppe terrain bonuses. When 1.14 comes out and hordes start getting new units with tech I can't think of any reason I'd ever want to reform into Qing. Especially when you can raze China to the ground for monarch points to feed more tech into your armies.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:39
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Ming has no rivals at game start so the second you get big enough for them to rival you, they will. Theoretically you could get around this by letting someone else get big first, but I don't know if that would even work and it sounds like a terrible idea. Much like how the Ottomans are the "final boss" of Europe/Africa games, Ming are the challenge of East-Asia. I formed the Qing by Allying and Guaranteeing Independence on a few breakaway states after they lost the Mandate of Heaven, which isn't really something you can count on, unfortunately. Ming didn't shatter, but this gave me enough to work with to grind them down. The Chinese states would all get beat by Ming on their own, but kept their armies busy and sapped their manpower while I took Korea out of the fight and wheeled my people around. You could presumably do the same thing with Ming's other neighbors. Letting Ming bleed off their manpower and get war exhaustion dealing with somebody else makes them a hell of a lot more manageable, especially if your manpower and finances are still in good shape. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 00:07
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They rivalled Oriat first, but I guess I busted them down and so I was there next target. I might be able to handle them in a war, I guess we'll see. How do you tell when they've lost the mandate or heaven, or what happens? I've never played much this far east.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:45
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Tsyni posted:They rivalled Oriat first, but I guess I busted them down and so I was there next target. I might be able to handle them in a war, I guess we'll see. How do you tell when they've lost the mandate or heaven, or what happens? I've never played much this far east. Just check one of their provinces. If they have Mandate of Heaven, they'll have a -5 Unrest modifier and when they lose it, that changes to a +10 modifier.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:50
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Okay, am I missing something here, or having a streak of incredibly bad luck? I am trying Buddhists Strike Back, and I'm never getting anywhere. Vijay will keep you warned, and eventually declare war on you. No one is willing to ally you. Do I have to keep rolling the dice and waiting until Vijay gets into a war that brings them to their knees? Because in over a dozen attempts, that hasn't happened yet.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:52
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No one? After improving relations with Bahmanis since day 1 and with the +1 rep advisor, I was able to get them into a RM+alliance, and they were willing to join a conquest against Vij in spring 1447. If you're getting declared on before then, are you looking soft to the AI? In my game Vij declared on Orissa first. Other things I did were building up to my force limit in infantry, and pumping all available ADM and DIP into developing my capital.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:24
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Frustrating to try all of these strategies and it's all locked behind $20 I dlc. Why not include these key features in the base gMe grumble grumble
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Oct 7, 2015 02:25
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Very few of them are locked. Transfer Occupation is the big one in Poland's case since it stops you from exploiting the nation formation decision quite so hard, but the strategy stays the same. And ultimately something has to be a paid feature. I'm starting to think this game has had more post-release development than pre-release, and it was a great game at release.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:32
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PittTheElder posted:And ultimately something has to be a paid feature. I'm starting to think this game has had more post-release development than pre-release, and it was a great game at release. It's getting close! EU3: Divine Wind (last expansion pack) was released in December 2010 and EU4 was released in August 2013, so about 3 years pre-release and then 2 years post-release so far?
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Oct 7, 2015 03:09
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Is Ming really that difficult to beat? Admittedly my last Manchu game was long ago (before AoW even) but I remember their armies being routinely decimated by hordes. Even a small stack could do a lot damage.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:22
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Trying out the Venice -> Byzantium setup. Am I missing something, or how do I convert to Orthodox to eventually form Byzantium? I accepted Orthodox Zealot demands but they just enforced tolerance on me rather than switching state religion. Tried it again and let the Orthodox Zealots siege my capital and enforce demands, still no flipping state religion.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:24
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Jastiger posted:Frustrating to try all of these strategies and it's all locked behind $20 I dlc. Why not include these key features in the base gMe grumble grumble To be fair most of these are very developed strategies developed by goons over years, and are designed for perfect games. If you ever want to try out the dlc join the goon eu4 multiplayer game (once I'm back from vacation I'll be running the casual game fairly often). If the host has dlc you get access to it while playing with them. You can do absolutely fine with out the dlc, don't worry too much.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:25
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Pellisworth posted:Trying out the Venice -> Byzantium setup. Am I missing something, or how do I convert to Orthodox to eventually form Byzantium? I accepted Orthodox Zealot demands but they just enforced tolerance on me rather than switching state religion. Tried it again and let the Orthodox Zealots siege my capital and enforce demands, still no flipping state religion. Majority of your provinces need to be orthodox or something like that
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Oct 7, 2015 03:28
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Baudin posted:To be fair most of these are very developed strategies developed by goons over years, and are designed for perfect games. If you ever want to try out the dlc join the goon eu4 multiplayer game (once I'm back from vacation I'll be running the casual game fairly often). If the host has dlc you get access to it while playing with them. Thanks for the tips. I'm still frustrated and struggling. Its like I take 2 steps forward then 3 back. Finally get the Teutonic spots as Poland. Then lol rebellion thats bigger than any army ever fielded yet, enjoy that. Get rebellion under control. Lol sorry, looks like everyone is going to ally against you and start picking off territories. Ok finally got everything secure. Oh Lol, here is an event that lowers your stability no matter what, restarting the whole thing over again. Then I look online and people have the entirety of Europe as Poland and I'm just like how in the hell.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:28
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Jastiger posted:Then I look online and people have the entirety of Europe as Poland and I'm just like how in the hell. Yea, but those people have years of experience (or several hundred hours of playtime). If you ever want to learn while playing with someone else just add me to steam. We can talk over mumble as we conquer the world. Pretty sure I'm gedder on steam
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Oct 7, 2015 03:32
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Mantis42 posted:Is Ming really that difficult to beat? Admittedly my last Manchu game was long ago (before AoW even) but I remember their armies being routinely decimated by hordes. Even a small stack could do a lot damage. They have changed hugely. They don't have the grievous discipline penalties anymore. e: also +discipline, +leader fire, -tech cost. They're very strong now. Probably too strong because there isn't really a great mechanic to model the decline and fall of large, agrarian empires, but at least they don't get overrun by Tibet by 1480 anymore.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:36
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Yeah pre-AoW it was a 25% discipline malus, their armies just completely melted. That got knocked down to 10% for a while, and now in Common Sense it's nearly completely gone. Also they're incredibly wealthy since Art of War (though still not even remotely as wealthy as they ought to be  ) so they just put down forts in practically every single province, which they incidentally get special defensive bonuses for from decisions and ideas. As a non-European team they're incredibly hard to beat.I kind of like it though, they're like an endboss. Koramei fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 03:42
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So, I had the protestants starting in Saxony and a Council of Trent; Switzerland is the first Reformed seat and England went full-on Anglican; But, of course, things could not be like that and poo poo went on fire with Pomerania annexing Denmark, Portugal too busy conquering Morocco instead of colonizing and commiting border atrocity by having a exclave right in the middle of it, Milan eating Venice and Hungary conquering Serbia, Albania, Bosnia and a slice of Bulgaria just for shits and giggles, Haasa becoming the premier Arab power and the Timurids actually managing to have a figment of staying power. Also, loving Ardalan managed to survive while being invaded by 3 different countries.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:13
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Mantis42 posted:Is Ming really that difficult to beat? Admittedly my last Manchu game was long ago (before AoW even) but I remember their armies being routinely decimated by hordes. Even a small stack could do a lot damage. They are very strong. With the new development system in they have the most development of any starting country by a large margin. They start with over 1000 and I think the next highest is france...maybe? The next highest is around 600-700. I just got into a war with them as manchu, had most of the northern provinces above them other than Korea, my 30 army got curb-stomped by their 80+ army. Not to mention they have a bunch of forts everywhere and there is like 1 fort in the steppes at the start.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:45
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Koramei posted:Yeah pre-AoW it was a 25% discipline malus, their armies just completely malus. That got knocked down to 10% for a while, and now in Common Sense it's nearly completely gone. They also have a pretty strong chance to explode, so I feel like it's balanced enough. I wouldn't mind a mod that just starts with fractured China for a change, though. What exactly are the mechanics behind losing the Mandate anyway, I've never paid enough attention to see it actually in progress.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:49
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The problem with Ming is either they immediately explode into a thousand different pieces or they stand strong in the initial ~50 years of the game and enjoy 4 centuries of harmonious rule as a result. The game really needs some way of handling the decaying and fracturing of large and overburdened empires in the early to mid game, so that major geopolitical events like the Manchu conquest of Ming or the dissolution of the Timurids have an actual possibility of happening in a realistic manner rather than something you'd see with the same probability of, say, AI Granada becoming the dominant Iberian power.
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Oct 7, 2015 05:02
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That's been my experience as well, either they collapse immediately or are strong for the entire game. A mid-timeline conquest a la the Manchus never seems to happen.
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Oct 7, 2015 05:03
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By the way, forgot to ask: as of the latest version, is it worth it for Russia to westernize?
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Oct 7, 2015 05:05
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Transmetropolitan posted:By the way, forgot to ask: as of the latest version, is it worth it for Russia to westernize? It usually isn't worth it as Eastern or Anatolian. If you can do it early, the better. You can capture Danzig, Prague, or Vienna to get a decision to become western once separatism wears off. Node fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 05:08
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Transmetropolitan posted:By the way, forgot to ask: as of the latest version, is it worth it for Russia to westernize?
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Oct 7, 2015 05:37
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Bort Bortles posted:As Node alluded to: As Russia it is worth doing by conquering Danzig (or Prague like some crazy goon did) and Westernizing via decision rather than the painful filling up a bar with monarch points while suffering tons of bad events.  
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Oct 7, 2015 06:07
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That's a lot of Russias.
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Oct 7, 2015 06:17
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Fister Roboto posted:That's a lot of Russias. You have no idea:  The greatest borders known to man.
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Oct 7, 2015 06:20
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