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LLSix posted:This sounds hella fun. I might try it for my next run. I've never tried religion switching shenanigans. Can you give some advice on how to do that and what religions to switch through as Oirat? I haven't done it with Oirat specifically they just seem like a good candidate. You start as Tengri and get some unique decisions for that plus a decision to switch to Vajrayana Buddhist. Essentially though you get all the permanent religion-based modifiers, then send a missionary to <target religion province> to start a Zealot rebellion. If a majority of your provinces are that target religion you don't even need to spawn a rebel stack you can just accept demands as soon as the Zealots show up as an option. If less than a majority you'll want to lower autonomy and spawn a rebel stack who will then march around converting provinces for you. Note that it is really tough to "manage" rebels if you have nearby allies or vassals. They fuckin' love to kill off your Zealot rebels and there's no way to stop them from doing it. I've run into this specifically with my Venice -> Byzantium game. Mostly following the AAR posted earlier but the author glosses over a lot of really important points. He says he takes Humanist and Plutocratic for the high tolerance/unrest which struck me as kinda overkill since once you convert to Orthodox and form Byzantium you have monstrous conversion bonuses and want to make everything Orthodox ASAP. I went Admin and expanded a lot more rapidly than he did, into Egypt then went colonizing into the Indian Ocean and Cape. The problem there is you need >50% Orthodox provinces to accept rebel demands and flip to Orthodox, but if you expand at any decent pace you'll quickly get into a position where it's near-impossible to get rebels to convert enough provinces. If you're doing Venice -> Byzantium you need to be conscious of limiting your expansion so you're not too far from the 50% Orthodox necessary to convert and form Byzantium. If you conquer as fast as you're capable of, religion switching to Orthodox becomes pretty unworkable.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:27
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Jastiger posted:Ah. I didn't realize that you suffered such attrition when sieging and just chilling out in enemy provinces. My Manpower would be something like 11K, I'd win 4 battles and have no manpower and be like wtf... Even winning battles in the early game will burn your manpower reserves badly. Fortunately, as Poland, you have vassals to take the front lines for you. Manpower recovers very slowly, about 1% of your maximum per month (increased by army tradition, events, and ideas, but decreased by war exhaustion). In the early game diplo points aren't that big a deal, if war exhaustion goes above 3 don't be afraid to pay it down. Especially as a western tech country. And so you're aware, Poland will usually get much harder as the game progresses and the real heavy hitters start to grow in power. Neutering Muscovy, Ottomans, and Austria are all priorities and each of those three is a horrible enemy in their own special way. It's not a country I'd recommend for a new player, but if you're committed then it's going to be one hell of a baptism by fire. Just wait until the Sejm events start if you want to see bad rebellions.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:31
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Ithle01 posted:Even winning battles in the early game will burn your manpower reserves badly. Fortunately, as Poland, you have vassals to take the front lines for you. Manpower recovers very slowly, about 1% of your maximum per month (increased by army tradition, events, and ideas, but decreased by war exhaustion). In the early game diplo points aren't that big a deal, if war exhaustion goes above 3 don't be afraid to pay it down. Especially as a western tech country. And so you're aware, Poland will usually get much harder as the game progresses and the real heavy hitters start to grow in power. Neutering Muscovy, Ottomans, and Austria are all priorities and each of those three is a horrible enemy in their own special way. It's not a country I'd recommend for a new player, but if you're committed then it's going to be one hell of a baptism by fire. Just wait until the Sejm events start if you want to see bad rebellions. I have. The best game i had was derailed by those particular nobles after the Sejm. It wasn't religious fanatics, it wasn't deserters, it was rear end in a top hat nobles that wanted a bigger piece of the pie. I never make it far enough along that the Ottomans or Moscovy are real nasty. And I'm trying my best to ally Austria in order to kill Hungary.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:35
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Pellisworth posted:I haven't done it with Oirat specifically they just seem like a good candidate. You start as Tengri and get some unique decisions for that plus a decision to switch to Vajrayana Buddhist. Any other things to know about that start that aren't reflected in that AAR? Probably gonna do Venice --> Byz as my next game.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:38
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How exactly does This Revolution Was Crushed work, I don't understand what a target of a revolution is. Also go me, I finished Neither Holy, Nor German by having silly Free cities like Krakow and Theodoro and Trebizond.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:40
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So I was given the complete edition of this insanity in the latest Steam sale, as someone who never really grasped the mechanics of Crusader Kings 2 -- mostly due to the tutorial not really helping that much and a lot of guides assuming you have full knowledge of the UI and what each button does -- how hard of a time will I have with this game? Is the tutorial worth doing or should I look to youtube for help? And finally, I tend to prefer diplomacy over combat and war in these kinds of games, is that viable or will I have to give up my peaceful ways?
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Oct 7, 2015 19:51
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Bold Robot posted:Any other things to know about that start that aren't reflected in that AAR? Probably gonna do Venice --> Byz as my next game. his strategy basically boils down to: -ally Austria and Poland, push hard into Balkans while building up galley fleet -bring Poland and Austria if possible into war with Ottomans, take all their Greek provinces -at some point, move capital to Greece and culture switch to Greek -keep beating up Ottomans, smash Hungary*, get unique event modifiers from Venice -by about 1550 or a little before you should have all the important unique stuff from the Venice tag, convert yourself to Orthodox and form Byzantium He recommends Plutocratic and Humanist ideas and to wait on a lot of your conquering until you've filled out Humanist. I asterisked Hungary because I think after your first big war with the Ottomans, going after the Mamluks is a much better option. They're easier as Hungary often has strong allies, it opens up the potential for colonization, and since it's distant overseas you can core it all for half price. You can pull the Ottoman trick of blocking off a land connection to Africa/Asia using Syria and other vassals, then core entire continents for half price. I would say the pro strat is beat Ottomans hard, then Mamluks and get shoreline on the Red Sea to start colonizing. However, this will make it a lot tougher to switch to Orthodox. The most important bits of advice I'd give are that it's not as strong as that guy's writeup seems to think, I'm really skeptical of a one-tag WC. It's fun and very strong but it's not some crazy overpowered super start. You actually have to deliberately slow your expansion (or feed most of your non-Orthodox conquests to vassals) so you can realistically swap to Orthodox. Really that's all it boils down to, 1) beat Ottomans hard and early then 2) don't take too many non-Orthodox provinces so you can convert and form Byzantium around 1550.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:54
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Tahirovic posted:How exactly does This Revolution Was Crushed work, I don't understand what a target of a revolution is. After 1700 there's a disaster chain that can trigger for Western tech nations, if it goes off and the revolution succeeds the targeted country gets a ton of bonuses. So if you're playing past that point and you see someone become 'Revolutionary Whoever' there's your target. Also when the achievement was released you could declare on a secondary target and if you captured the revolutionary capital and fully occupied the target (in my case some 2 province minor in the HRE) it would still trigger. No idea if this has been fixed.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:05
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Faerie Fortune posted:So I was given the complete edition of this insanity in the latest Steam sale, as someone who never really grasped the mechanics of Crusader Kings 2 -- mostly due to the tutorial not really helping that much and a lot of guides assuming you have full knowledge of the UI and what each button does -- how hard of a time will I have with this game? Is the tutorial worth doing or should I look to youtube for help? And finally, I tend to prefer diplomacy over combat and war in these kinds of games, is that viable or will I have to give up my peaceful ways? I just got over this learning curve. Its hard and the UI is frustrating. Some of the simplest things are pretty darn unintuitive. Play the tutorial to get used to the UI. This youtube video helped me a ton. (I hate Youtube for guides and will take a written guide over everything, but I tolerated this one and how straightforward it was) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9vPgNAqzY It assumes you've played Civ 5, but I haven't and I understood everything just fine. Again, forgive the Youtube-personalityness of it.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:06
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 Castile status, hosed by the other AI. 
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Oct 7, 2015 20:26
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Regarding Venice -> Byzantium, here's my game in 1550. Have all the unique Venice stuff and ready to convert to Orthodox and form Byzantium, but even though I've been fairly conservative in my expansion (and am DROWNING in monarch points, 6 years ahead in all techs) I have too many non-Orthodox provinces. I'll probably need to break all my alliances and maybe integrate Syria so no one kills the Zealot rebels, and sit around for a couple decades hoping they convert enough provinces for me to flip. So yeah if you do Venice -> Byzantium make sure you don't go much below 50% Orthodox provinces, ideally have a majority so you can easily flip.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:06
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Jastiger posted:I have. The best game i had was derailed by those particular nobles after the Sejm. It wasn't religious fanatics, it wasn't deserters, it was rear end in a top hat nobles that wanted a bigger piece of the pie. The Sejm makes playing the PLC hard. If it weren't for the Sejm, the PLC would be an unambiguous top-tier country. As it is, they're more of a medium-tier country because you have to overcome the Sejm to become strong, whereas Russia/Ottomans just start strong and stay strong.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:43
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Faerie Fortune posted:So I was given the complete edition of this insanity in the latest Steam sale, as someone who never really grasped the mechanics of Crusader Kings 2 -- mostly due to the tutorial not really helping that much and a lot of guides assuming you have full knowledge of the UI and what each button does -- how hard of a time will I have with this game? Is the tutorial worth doing or should I look to youtube for help? And finally, I tend to prefer diplomacy over combat and war in these kinds of games, is that viable or will I have to give up my peaceful ways? Play the tutorial, if only to learn what all the buttons do and the basics of warfare. Playing a very peaceful game is possible, but it's also pretty boring, since you don't have much else to do. Dibujante posted:The Sejm makes playing the PLC hard. If it weren't for the Sejm, the PLC would be an unambiguous top-tier country. As it is, they're more of a medium-tier country because you have to overcome the Sejm to become strong, whereas Russia/Ottomans just start strong and stay strong. I don't think Jastiger actually as the Sejm though. I think it's a Res Publica only thing, and he doesn't have any DLC. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 21:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Dibujante posted:The Sejm makes playing the PLC hard. If it weren't for the Sejm, the PLC would be an unambiguous top-tier country. As it is, they're more of a medium-tier country because you have to overcome the Sejm to become strong, whereas Russia/Ottomans just start strong and stay strong. I guess I had a different experience. I found the -10% tech cost and -10% idea cost the Sejm gives you bananas, if you go humanist you are running -20% idea cost which is unparalleled. With Western Arms Trade, Poland basically has no penalty for being eastern and with the 30 year Byzantine refugee bonus you are actually running -10% during that time. Then you westernize whenever you feel like it. Having played both back to back, Poland / Commonwealth seems much stronger than Russia for being able to ignore the exploration angle, can steal Russia's rich lands fairly easily in two-three wars, and has much easier access to Europe, Danzig, etc. The troops are far better too +15% morale, +33% cav combat, + discipline vs russia which gets.... nothing. The way that Poland's Humanism gives you +3 for Heretics, Heathens, and True Faith is also silly combined with the -accepted culture stuff... it seemed much much stronger than any Russia playthrough I did.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:35
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Faerie Fortune posted:So I was given the complete edition of this insanity in the latest Steam sale, as someone who never really grasped the mechanics of Crusader Kings 2 -- mostly due to the tutorial not really helping that much and a lot of guides assuming you have full knowledge of the UI and what each button does -- how hard of a time will I have with this game? Is the tutorial worth doing or should I look to youtube for help? And finally, I tend to prefer diplomacy over combat and war in these kinds of games, is that viable or will I have to give up my peaceful ways? If you want a mostly peaceful game you might try playing as Portugal or Castile, and go the colonizing/exploration route. Portugal in particular doesn't have many European war concerns, you can just ally with Castile and hang out for the most part. I do agree with the previous poster that war is more fun than sitting around. War is also more important than in CK2.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:38
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What makes Poland absurd is that they have a decision to integrate Lithuania, just like Castile. It means you can feed your PU partner an absurd amount of land and integrate it at no cost. I've had a Lithuania with most of the Russia and Siberian region, holding steady at almost twice my development, but thanks to being historical friends, it doesn't matter.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:55
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Rakthar posted:I guess I had a different experience. I found the -10% tech cost and -10% idea cost the Sejm gives you bananas, if you go humanist you are running -20% idea cost which is unparalleled. With Western Arms Trade, Poland basically has no penalty for being eastern and with the 30 year Byzantine refugee bonus you are actually running -10% during that time. Then you westernize whenever you feel like it. I think the only big advantage Muscovy/Russia has over the PLC start is simple geographic positioning. You have (relatively) easy expansion into the steppe hordes and colonization across Siberia. Poland has top-tier military NIs and great religious/cultural tolerance, really easy access to free Westernization, a strong bulldog in Lithuania who they can integrate for free. However, Poland is blocked in on all sides by a bunch of strong Lucky nation land powers (Muscovy, Ottomans, Sweden, Austria, Brandenburg) so your expansion options are limited and they'll be pretty bloody.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:59
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Pellisworth posted:I think the only big advantage Muscovy/Russia has over the PLC start is simple geographic positioning. You have (relatively) easy expansion into the steppe hordes and colonization across Siberia. Poland has top-tier military NIs and great religious/cultural tolerance, really easy access to free Westernization, a strong bulldog in Lithuania who they can integrate for free. In my last Poland game Lithuania was fairly decent about fabricating claims. Using those claims you can declare war and take provinces for yourself that are adjacent to Lithuanian core provinces. Then you can fabricate your own claims and carry on. I conquered into Persia doing this, so it looked like Lithuanian land with little dots of Poland every little bit. I agree it's not as ideal as Russia who is a bit more wide open, but using this strategy you can just cut Russia off in the first hundred years and they are stuck with Siberia only.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:08
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Pellisworth posted:Regarding Venice -> Byzantium, here's my game in 1550. Have all the unique Venice stuff and ready to convert to Orthodox and form Byzantium, but even though I've been fairly conservative in my expansion (and am DROWNING in monarch points, 6 years ahead in all techs) I have too many non-Orthodox provinces. I'll probably need to break all my alliances and maybe integrate Syria so no one kills the Zealot rebels, and sit around for a couple decades hoping they convert enough provinces for me to flip. It looks like you might be able to attack across the black sea into Muscovy to pick up some more orthodox provinces. If not maybe take some from Poland, though that would cost you a strong ally it sounds like. I think you're really going to miss the +25% religious unity from Humanism for the next 50+ years. Do please report back. I'm interested to hear how it works out for you. Thanks for the religion advice.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:17
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Pellisworth posted:I think the only big advantage Muscovy/Russia has over the PLC start is simple geographic positioning. You have (relatively) easy expansion into the steppe hordes and colonization across Siberia. Poland has top-tier military NIs and great religious/cultural tolerance, really easy access to free Westernization, a strong bulldog in Lithuania who they can integrate for free. I find this an interesting topic because I just did some testing on it, curious to compare notes. I found with the CS rebalance of colonization Russia's position is a bit of a mixed blessing. Do you take Exploration / Expansion and make use of that empty space, tying up a critical idea slot on something that won't help you for a while? Or do you simply let it go to waste and pick something else like Admin / Influence / Offensive? I'm not sure Poland is so constrained. Poland can go to war with TO, Pomerania, Ottomans, Russia, LO, Riga, Crimea, Golden Horde all within a short period. It lets you be opportunistic. If you have Lit in a PU and the Ottomans get into some really ill advised war, you can steal a few provinces quite easily - same with most of their neighbors like Crimea, Ryazan, GH, etc. I felt that Russia has a harder time getting access to Ottoman territory for instance, requiring you to chew through the Golden Horde in at least two wars. And then usually you have Circassia or Georgia blocking you at that point. CS made it so that high value provinces are really much more valuable than low value provinces. I feel that the places Commonwealth could expand were much more useful - from a province viability, not just a province count or development standpoint. Again, Commonwealth stealing useful Russian land is way better than Russia stealing land from Uzbek. When I do test games comparing two countries I like to look at how they're doing at key points. Take a look at Poland's development / manpower / cash / province count vs Muscovy's in a 100 year span. Poland should end up with ~1500 development after integrating Lithuania, Russia is usually around 700-800 if you expand quickly. That's ignoring the fact that Poland will mostly have accepted cultures and be fine with religion, whereas much of Russia's annexed land will be Muslim and wrong culture. I was not prepared for the benefits that "320 point ideas that unlock your NIs" has for Poland. Not to mention the elective monarchy lets you pick a ruler that has a strength in whatever you're putting your ideas into. The way those two worked together was surprising. Looking at Idea Synergy, an Admin / Humanist / Influence / Offensive / Quality Commonwealth is really hard to deal with and feels robust in every way. I can't come up with a Russia build that comes even close. Exploration / Religious / Defensive / Admin / Influence? You'll get destroyed in every fight. Another note: Poland has a much easier time getting and maintaining Western Arms trade. I think with Russia you used to be able to power up in Siberia and come back with hordes of dudes, back when they had +infantry combat. As it is now, with manpower being so precious and those lands being kinda uninteresting, I never felt that my Russia "powered up" and was ready to come back and hit Europe with its big armies of well equipped troops. Compared to Poland / Lit that basically was a positive inflection curve the whole time. The interesting part, to me, was that I didn't feel I had any worse access to India as Commonwealth than I did as Russia. I seemed to be able to bore through the hordes just as quickly, but had way better troops along the way. And since you usually have Danzig you can stay Eastern as long as it suits you for army composition and vassalization purposes, then become Western when it doesn't.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:18
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Cynic Jester posted:What makes Poland absurd is that they have a decision to integrate Lithuania, just like Castile. It means you can feed your PU partner an absurd amount of land and integrate it at no cost. I've had a Lithuania with most of the Russia and Siberian region, holding steady at almost twice my development, but thanks to being historical friends, it doesn't matter.  Silence! Wiz is watching! 
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Oct 7, 2015 23:19
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Rakthar posted:I find this an interesting topic because I just did some testing on it, curious to compare notes. I found with the CS rebalance of colonization Russia's position is a bit of a mixed blessing. Do you take Exploration / Expansion and make use of that empty space, tying up a critical idea slot on something that won't help you for a while? Or do you simply let it go to waste and pick something else like Admin / Influence / Offensive? Why wouldn't you westernize as soon as possible?
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Oct 7, 2015 23:23
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LLSix posted:Why wouldn't you westernize as soon as possible? Eastern lets you run 40% Infantry, 60% Cavalry. Western caps it at 50/50. It makes a difference if you actually want to run Cav heavy armies, you have more headroom for infantry losses before you start worrying about the combat penalty kicking in due to insufficient infantry. This works very nicely with the +33% cav combat ability that Commonwealth gets. Western countries cannot make vassals out of Indian countries, so once you get past Afghanistan you either need to annex or Protectorate them if you're Western. If you're Eastern you can force vassal / integrate as normal while conquering. Eastern countries get a -10% Western Arms Trade bonus, so the 20% tech penalty is really a 10% Tech Penalty. Whether you think 10% tech cost is worth being able to run more cav and make Indian vassals is up to you, but you have the choice.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:27
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LLSix posted:It looks like you might be able to attack across the black sea into Muscovy to pick up some more orthodox provinces. If not maybe take some from Poland, though that would cost you a strong ally it sounds like. Yeah I might try and see if I can grab some provinces in that direction, but I already own all the nearby Orthodox land. I'm not sure if overseas colonies count toward the 50% of provinces, I sure hope not. If they do count, I'm hosed and it's really unlikely I'll be able to switch to Orthodox. Even if overseas don't count, I still need to coax Orthodox Zealots to convert a bunch of my Anatolian Sunni provinces. Rakthar posted:I find this an interesting topic because I just did some testing on it, curious to compare notes. I found with the CS rebalance of colonization Russia's position is a bit of a mixed blessing. Do you take Exploration / Expansion and make use of that empty space, tying up a critical idea slot on something that won't help you for a while? Or do you simply let it go to waste and pick something else like Admin / Influence / Offensive? Russia doesn't really "power up." They just get huge, and their positioning allows them to mostly fight lower tech groups if you don't want to deal with the tougher Europeans as much. Probably the only advantage Russia has in terms of steppe expansion is it's better and easier for them to convert long-term, while Poland with Humanist has an easier time short-term but long term will have trouble converting the Sunni at a decent clip. Edit: also, I need to double check, but I'm pretty sure the Cav % is a function of unit type and not tech? So you should be able to run 60% cav as either Eastern or Western tech Poland. Edit2: yeah your cav % is tied to unit type and not tech. Really the only reason to stay Eastern is for lower-tech vassals. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 23:34
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Rakthar posted:Eastern lets you run 40% Infantry, 60% Cavalry. Western caps it at 50/50. It makes a difference if you actually want to run Cav heavy armies, you have more headroom for infantry losses before you start worrying about the combat penalty kicking in due to insufficient infantry. This works very nicely with the +33% cav combat ability that Commonwealth gets. Did they change this? I'm pretty sure it used to stay the same.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:41
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Advisors come from random provinces inside your realm, right? Does this include provinces who don't follow the state religion, so you can end up with an inquisitor from a heathen/heretical province who helps forcibly convert his home town by the sword?
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Oct 7, 2015 23:42
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Pellisworth posted:I'm not sure how you can "pick" rulers with Elective Monarchy. You can kinda choose between a domestic or whichever foreign candidate is top competitor, but it's not remotely as flexible as a republic. I still felt that I had a lot of maneuvering room though. Different ages, different stats, different countries. There were several times where I had to 'eat' a crappy heir because the Polish guy was underwhelming, and so a 64 year old Lorraine guy would be king for two years while also being General. Then the 22 year old 5/3/5 Polish heir would get elected right after. There's also no regencies which is catastrophic in the early game, and you have a better chance of a PU with other countries. Sure you can argue it's a slightly crappier republic, but it's a slightly crappier republic on a ridiculously strong country and I felt it was better than a Monarchy in every way oh yeah and it gives you cheaper techs and ideas. I found it great. How about this: The entire time I had the Sejm, I had either decent or great rulers. Decent when I ended up with a foreign 1/1/3 heir (don't laugh, Russia gets way worse) who would be 50+, great when it was domestic 3/3/3/+ that was young. As soon as the Sejm went away I got 100 years of a garbage king and his garbage son. [edit]The tech group / unit type thing is awesome, thought it was one more reason to stay Eastern. Welp, so Indian and Chinese vassals are the only reason to stay Eastern. Not very compelling.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:44
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Poil posted:Advisors come from random provinces inside your realm, right? Does this include provinces who don't follow the state religion, so you can end up with an inquisitor from a heathen/heretical province who helps forcibly convert his home town by the sword? Yes. It should not be that much of a surprise; collaborators have existed throughout history.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:57
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YF-23 posted:Yes. It should not be that much of a surprise; collaborators have existed throughout history. "What kind of salary do you expect per month?" "More than the city of Rome collects in taxes in a year."
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Oct 8, 2015 00:10
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Also a province's religion is just the majority religion there.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:12
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Rakthar posted:I still felt that I had a lot of maneuvering room though. Different ages, different stats, different countries. There were several times where I had to 'eat' a crappy heir because the Polish guy was underwhelming, and so a 64 year old Lorraine guy would be king for two years while also being General. Then the 22 year old 5/3/5 Polish heir would get elected right after. The free Westernization is so tempting and available so early it's hard for me not to take it right away. To get much mileage out of Indian and Chinese tech vassals you'd have to delay your free Westernization for, I dunno, a century or more and that just doesn't seem worth it. And you're absolutely right, the lack of regencies is huge and the dynasty roulette can sometimes be nice.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:24
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Pellisworth posted:The free Westernization is so tempting and available so early it's hard for me not to take it right away. To get much mileage out of Indian and Chinese tech vassals you'd have to delay your free Westernization for, I dunno, a century or more and that just doesn't seem worth it. Yeah I felt there was an argument to be made for having the higher cav limits during the period where cav /shock was most useful. Now that it turns out there's not the case, I don't see why you would delay Westernizing.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:31
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MrBling posted:Luckily there is a very thorough video guide. I finally got lucky enough to get just big enough to rival Vijay, so Bahmanis would ally me. I'm on my way to the achievement. Karma is kind of a dumb mechanic but it isn't that big a deal.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:35
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Ok yeah I'm pretty confident Venice -> Byzantium is not really feasible unless you intentionally stay 50% or more Orthodox to easily convert. Even if your vassals and allies didn't kill rebel stacks with great gusto, it's rather hard to get big Orthodox rebels going as most of Greek culture province will spawn different types of separatists first (Byzantine, Achaea, Morea, etc). I don't really think it's a powergaming start, but it's definitely fun.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:09
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Faerie Fortune posted:So I was given the complete edition of this insanity in the latest Steam sale, as someone who never really grasped the mechanics of Crusader Kings 2 -- mostly due to the tutorial not really helping that much and a lot of guides assuming you have full knowledge of the UI and what each button does -- how hard of a time will I have with this game? Is the tutorial worth doing or should I look to youtube for help? And finally, I tend to prefer diplomacy over combat and war in these kinds of games, is that viable or will I have to give up my peaceful ways? Things to keep in mind with regards to the UI are that everything has a tooltip, and that you can pause at any time and take as long as necessary to figure out your strategy. Sitting around on pause for 15 minutes, going through all the menus, and planning for the next few years is something I do a lot. Even if you have no idea what a number means, usually the tooltip will give you some relevant information about how it relates to other numbers, events, etc. It's fine to choose an easy country and crawl your way through your first few games - it actually takes many, many games to intuitively understand all of the mechanics, and even the most experienced players are surprised sometimes by how things interact. Even though you won't be playing at full efficiency early on, though, as long as you are a fairly strong country starting out you have a lot of room to make mistakes and learn how the dynamics of the system tend to play out. You can't really get by just making friends in this game. The closest thing is playing as Austria, the Holy Roman Emperor; their goal is more to defend the integrity of the empire and sovereignty of the plucky little states that make up the HRE than conquest for themselves. As such, they have a deeper diplomatic game than most other nations. This isn't to say that you won't do diplomacy as most nations. It's actually very important to make the right allies and such, especially in the harder starts, and you can gain territory through purely peaceful means; it just isn't easy, or even possible in most circumstances.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:10
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Pellisworth posted:Ok yeah I'm pretty confident Venice -> Byzantium is not really feasible unless you intentionally stay 50% or more Orthodox to easily convert. Even if your vassals and allies didn't kill rebel stacks with great gusto, it's rather hard to get big Orthodox rebels going as most of Greek culture province will spawn different types of separatists first (Byzantine, Achaea, Morea, etc). You can provoke religious rebels by sending missionaries and setting their maintenance to 0.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:28
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Obliterati posted:You can provoke religious rebels by sending missionaries and setting their maintenance to 0. Yes, but that's not the issue. The problem is that it's hard to spawn Orthodox rebels because there's a bunch of different Greek tags so even with a missionary you're getting mostly separatists. If you do manage to provoke zealot rebels, your allies and vassals will aggressively kill them before they have a chance to (maybe) wander out of the Balkans and convert some of your other provinces. That's why I think you want to stay really close or above 50% Orthodox provinces until you have all the Venice unique events and are ready to convert. The geography makes it a pain to entice religious rebels to flip some of your provinces, and meanwhile you're sitting at poo poo Religious Unity. Edit: also any ship in a sea zone will block them from crossing straits. I managed to get a few good sized stacks of Orthodox Zealots who then got permanently stuck on a few of the Greek islands because random Genoese and Spanish ships were patrolling through. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 01:32
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Pellisworth posted:Yes, but that's not the issue. The problem is that it's hard to spawn Orthodox rebels because there's a bunch of different Greek tags so even with a missionary you're getting mostly separatists. If you do manage to provoke zealot rebels, your allies and vassals will aggressively kill them before they have a chance to (maybe) wander out of the Balkans and convert some of your other provinces. You guys do realize you can convert and culture shift without any issues while waiting for the RT reduction DHE's to pop, right? All the Venice events are tied to your tag. Once you have Venetians first and Statute in restraint of appeals(Edit: And De Heretico), there's no point in staying Catholic, so just convert ASAP. Same with culture shifting. None of the Venetian flavor events reference your culture, so you can culture shift as soon as you own Greece. Cynic Jester fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 01:37
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Cynic Jester posted:You guys do realize you can convert and culture shift without any issues while waiting for the RT reduction DHE's to pop, right? All the Venice events are tied to your tag. Once you have Venetians first and Statute in restraint of appeals, there's no point in staying Catholic, so just convert ASAP. Same with culture shifting. None of the Venetian flavor events reference your culture, so you can culture shift as soon as you own Greece. That's not the issue I'm having. I culture swapped to Greek very early, however I was waiting for the one Venetian decision (the religious one, MS or Unity/Heretic Tolerance) which is Catholic-specific. You should have most of the DHEs fire by early-mid 1500s, 1550 at latest. The original posted guide suggested staying Catholic until Austria was no longer willing to be your bulldog in wars. I expanded too quickly into the Mamluks and now that I've got my DHEs and ready to convert to Orthodox, there isn't a feasible way for me to get to 50% Orthodox provinces without releasing a bunch of vassals or something which I may need to do. My original post was giving advice on Venice -> Byzantium, and my point was that you should stay close to or above 50% Orthodox until you convert. There is such a thing as being over-ambitious when you're planning to convert to a minority religion which is geographically confined to a peninsula and islands. I should have handed a lot more territory to vassals, or said gently caress it on the Catholic-specific Venice DHE and converted without it, earlier. Edit: you are right except that the Dominican Inquisition event is Catholic-specific. That's the one that gives you +2 Heretic Tolerance and +10% Religious Unity (for less Papal Influence) or 1% MS and -2 Heretic Tolerance. It has a 300 MTTH if you're at peace, and since I was aggressively beating up the Ottomans and Mamluks it took a while for it to fire, and I made the mistake of waiting for it instead of converting to Orthodox early. I still think going Balkans -> beat up Ottomans -> beat up Mamluks for Red Sea access is the best opening, rather than going for Hungary after your first big war with the Turks. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 01:43
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| # ? May 16, 2024 23:52 |
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Last Emperor posted:Is there an ironman compatible mod that makes the nice looking fonts etc on country names? A Rev. Font Mod has about a different font options, which are all (afaik) ironman-compatible.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:51
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