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Duane Benzie Duane Benzie Duane Benzie
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Oct 11, 2015 18:07
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Peter "Darth Chef" Serafinowicz "Tim. Hi."
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Oct 11, 2015 18:07
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cargohills posted:That wouldn't happen, given that the show is called "Doctor Who" and he is the main character. They would retitle it. It would be about the adventures of a new Time Lord called Lewis.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:22
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I really liked that two parter, spreading it out only seemed to strengthen the story. Even though the second part seemed comparatively quicker in pace, if it was just one episode I think it would have been a rushed mess. The Fisher King monster was definitely some good nightmare fuel, especially when it was in the shadows talking to the Doctor. And even though it seemed out of place with the rest of the story, I really liked the intro with Capaldi monologuing at the camera (I was a fan of the one in Listen as well). It reminded me of the Big Finish audios where Paul McGann gives a good, story related monologue, like in Scherzo. It worked in this episode as a way of hanging a lantern on the time travel resolution of the story, and if it actually is foreshadowing for more stuff with the Time Lords, it'll be even more brilliant. I forget who mentioned that first, but it seems like a fair jump considering the Fisher King seemed to know an awful lot about the Time Lords. Also, I guess we got our "Bad Wolf" of the season with the Minister of War thing. I honestly prefer when they hint at season long arcs like that, rather than semi-awkwardly including them as part of the story (like they did with Missy last season). Usually it makes episodes suffer a little bit on rewatch.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:24
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squarerandom posted:Honest question, so what was the point/reason/answer of/to the Silence. Because I don't remember that poo poo at all. What? The arc with the Silence was wrapped up so perfectly, it might as well have had a bow on it. Don't you remember?  Lampsacus posted:I actually wonder sometimes what would happen if they killed off the Doctor for real. Like, suddenly a Dalek shot him and he died and that's it. How would they continue, hypothetically? They'd probably have some charismatic companions commandeer the TARDIS. Replace him with the Master and her companions. Keep the same TARDIS. Every week they battle a new monster, which Missy usually tries to take care of using violence and snark, but it doesn't ever work and the true resolution always ends up being compassion and understanding, which continually annoys her. All the while, we're furthering her season-long plot to take over the universe, which is eventually foiled by the dull evil banality and latent goodness of her companions. The Doctor comes back in the season finale, just as the joke is starting to wear thin.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:26
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Aww yiss.
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Oct 11, 2015 19:44
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Oct 11, 2015 20:01
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From where and for how much?
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Oct 11, 2015 20:02
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Character Options/Underground Toys, and no clue yet.
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Oct 11, 2015 20:11
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Wait...why is he wearing the gun belt? He doesn't actually put that on til after the regeneration
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Oct 11, 2015 20:34
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Just got done watching the episode, I feel that it did not hold up well to part 1, which I liked a lot. Didn't enjoy deaf girl and her keeper, even in part 1 they were just tolerable, and am glad that I won't have to watch them next week. Never really explained what the ghosts were either, though I guess it was never really going to be anything more than technobabble. I am glad that the glasses look like they'll be staying for at least a little while longer, I think I prefer them to the screw driver at least as a temporary thing.
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Oct 11, 2015 20:43
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Cliff Racer posted:Didn't enjoy deaf girl and her keeper, can't imagine why a cool guy like you has that avatar
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Oct 11, 2015 21:13
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That was good. Lots of tension building and lots of stuff going on. Despite whatever contradictions are in the plot it was a great story to watch. This is so much better than last season it is not funny. Capaldi is finally getting to be the Doctor.
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Oct 11, 2015 21:32
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The 4th wall breaking stuff was acted and shot very well (the Doctor moving through the TARDIS as he spun his tale) and the shot of him shrugging at the camera at the end was hilarious, they just felt a little out of place in the story even though they were so clearly connected in the eventual resolution. In any case, I just finished binge-watching Rick and Morty and I'm half expecting this season to end now with Capaldi waving at the camera and happily declaring,"See you next season!"..... nah, who am I kidding, something like that would NEVER happen! 
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Oct 11, 2015 22:16
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The_Doctor posted:Aww yiss. Isn't that the 3.75 inch figure though?
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Oct 11, 2015 22:22
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I don't think so - the faces for the 3.75 inch figures have significantly worse paintwork, and generally less detail throughout.
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Oct 11, 2015 22:52
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Davros1 posted:Isn't that the 3.75 inch figure though? No, 5"
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Oct 11, 2015 23:27
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 A twisted survival plan is pieced together by an alien warlord called the Fisher King. The universe will feel the consequence. Can these events be stopped? Can the Doctor ensure the future's coming and do the impossible? Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in Before the Flood. X X X X X Cast The Doctor - Peter Capaldi Clara - Jenna Coleman Moran - Colin McFarlane Cass - Sophie Stone Lunn - Zaqi Ismail O'Donnell - Morven Christie Bennett - Arsher Ali Pritchard - Steven Robertson Albar Prentis - Paul Kaye Fisher King - Neil Fingleton Voice of Fisher King - Peter Serafinowicz Roar of Fisher King - Corey Taylor Writer: Toby Whithouse Director: Daniel O'Hara Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwSQlJmBS2w Gifs by: J-Ru X X X X X Wikipedia posted:A causal loop is a paradox of time travel that occurs when a later (future) event is the cause of an earlier (past) event, through some sort of time travel. The past event is then partly or entirely the cause of the future event, which is the past event's cause. Since a causal loop has no independent origin, it is also called a bootstrap paradox, predestination paradox or ontological paradox.[citation needed] The Doctor posted:Google it.  I don't quite know what to make of Before the Flood. It's a story packed with some memorable moments and neat twists, but instead of allowing the audience to figure things out for themselves, the script relies on the “tell don't show” method which is accompanied by the outright smashing of the fourth wall at one point. Add to that the criminal waste of an awesome looking (and sounding) alien menace and Before the Flood combines with its predecessor to make a merely adequate two parter. Clara sees the Doctor's ghost hovering in the water during the climax of Under the Lake, which must mean that the Doctor will die during his trip to the abandoned military base in 1980. The Doctor is willing to accept this fact (“this regeneration was a clerical error”) in order to keep the Web of Time intact. But what he won't accept is Clara's death, and for that he'll change history. But as the Doctor enacts his plan to defeat the alien menace and Clara does her best to ensure she keeps him alive, the surviving crew members of the Drum have to ask themselves, who is the bigger threat; the warlord known as the Fisher King, or the Time Lord and his companion? Toby Whithouse's script focuses more on the time-travel elements and the tensions between the crew of the Drum and the crew of the TARDIS than it does on the Fisher King, the villain who's behind the writing on the wall of the spaceship and the use of sentient souls as a transmitter booster. The episode opens with the Doctor directly addressing the audience (as opposed to the Doctor alone in the TARDIS just talking to himself ala Listen and Storm Warning) by using Beethoven's music to explain what a “bootstrap paradox” is – someone in the future is a huge fan of Beethoven's music, so they get in a time machine to go back and visit the composer in Vienna. Once arriving in Vienna, the time traveler comes to discover that there never was a composer named Ludwig von Beethoven. However, the time traveler just happens to have all of the sheet music to Beethoven's symphonies which he had hoped to get autographed. The time traveler has the sheet music published, and viola! Ludwig von Beethoven is known as one of history's greatest composers. But, there's one very important question. Who wrote the music in the first place? This type of paradox is known as a “causal loop” but also called a “bootstrap paradox” after its use in the Robert Heinlein story By His Bootstraps. The bootstrap paradox has been used in numerous stories and movies, including The Terminator and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. The Doctor's explanation of the bootstrap paradox during the cold open flat out tells the audience what to expect while watching this story and what to look out for. The flat out shattering of the fourth wall is something that happens very rarely in Doctor Who. Whithouse does more than shatter the fourth wall; he drops a fusion bomb on it. It's the kind of scene that would have worked better as a Red Nose Day skit or a webisode, not as the cold open to the second episode of a two-parter. Not only is it incredibly on the nose and takes the viewer out of the moment but it robs the episode of a lot of its of mystery. Everyone knows the Doctor is going to live, so half the fun of Before the Flood comes from the viewer discovering over the course of episode HOW the Doctor is going to live. Flat out stating “he survives because of a bootstrap paradox, and oh here's what a bootstrap paradox is” mitigates that enjoyment a bit...or, flat out says to the audience “you're not going to understand this, so let me hit you with the clue-by-four.” Both would come about from a failure in scriptwriting, and we all know Whithouse is more talented than this. Granted, everything DOES come together at the end in a way that makes narrative sense, but the ending scene also contains a little bit of heavy-handed exposition from the Doctor to tie everything up. A good script wouldn't need to tack on a scene like this; it would come out naturally during the episode. Compare the time-travel aspects of Before the Flood to the “timey-wimey” aspects of Blink] and how each script explains them to the audience, and one can see how this episode lags behind. The first-person stuff works within the context of the story and was well-shot and handled, it just felt out of place and could have been handled a little less on-the-nose. There is a point where Whithouse's script succeeds very well. Drawing upon the same themes from The God Complex, Whithouse focuses on how the survivors of the Drum view the Doctor and Clara. While both of them are trying to save the remaining crew members, their attitudes and methods both draw valid criticisms. The Doctor realizes that the ghosts, who are now chanting the names of the crew members, are chanting these names in the order that the crew members have died, and possibly will die. When the Doctor reveals this to Bennett (the scientist) after O'Donnell (the fangirl with sort-of-funny anger issues) died, Bennett blasts him for it, proclaiming that the Doctor let O'Donnell die to prove his theory and that the only reason the Doctor is now gung-ho about changing history and not being the next to die is because Clara's name is next on the list. Viewers who've seen Deep Breath and Into the Dalek might be on Bennett's side in this one. Did the Doctor have a theory and decided to let O'Donnell die to prove it because time had already been written? Did the Doctor decided to say “screw time” and try to save Clara by any means necessary? Viewers know the Doctor does what he can to save every life possible, so it's very interesting to consider how “possible” is defined by the Twelfth Doctor. To that end, Peter Capaldi does a great job as the Doctor in this episode, easily one of the highlights. Sometimes, the Doctor has to be a heartless pragmatist. Sometimes, he has to be the man who stops the monsters. And sometimes, he just had to be the coolest teacher in the room and show his companion an the bad guys a thing or two. For its flaws, Under the Lake/Before the Flood could serve as a great “introduction” story for newcomers to the series for its time-travel aspects but also for the fact that both stories nail everything both good and bad about the Doctor – a clever alien who values all life and does everything he can to save it, but because he's an alien acts on a logical plane different from ours while changing people around him, convincing them to take risks and enjoy the thrill of danger. Putting aside the Doctor insisting that he has to die and his assurances to keep both the Web of Time and Clara's life intact, the scene in the basement of the church (which was incredibly well shot by director Daniel O'Hara) where the Doctor confronts the Fisher King is a perfect example of how the Doctor deals with monsters; by giving them an out, and then breaking them down while working out how to defeat them. And then, the running about and bringing everything all together to close the story out. It's textbook Who mixed with Capaldi's cool take on the Twelfth Doctor, though one part threw me a bit – just how causally the Doctor accepted he would have to die when Clara told him there was a ghost. It might be that this season's theme is “Death and the Doctor,” but that one scene felt just a little rushed as if the script said “and the Doctor realizes he has to die, moving on!”  Back in the Drum, Jenna Coleman takes the “Clara is the Doctor” ball and runs with it this episode. She demands the Doctor not die, telling him to fight with everything he has to ensure he comes back to her, channeling the Doctor's constant attempts to find the one shining thread of hope and pull on it for all its worth. More importantly for the story, when the ghosts cut off the lines of communication between her and the Doctor Clara is the one who deduces that since Lunn never saw the words inside the spaceship, he could go retrieve the cell phone and not be harmed by the ghost. While Cass protests in her position of commanding officer and friend, Clara convinces Lunn's that putting himself in harm's way is the only way to ensure the Doctor can save the day. Lunn chooses to go, much to Cass' dismay (with some absolutely great British Sign Language moments from Cass who still conveys her emotions for those who don't know BSL), and she lets Clara know in no uncertain terms that she believes “the Doctor changes people.” Clara kind of blows it off, which I think works as we've seen Clara start to become more like the Doctor, especially in her talk about fighting death and living life (but still no mention of Danny Pink!). I'm intrigued to see how it ties into Clara's story arc in her final season, although knowing it's her final season does take a bit of the mystery out of it. Making Under the Lake/Before the Flood a two-parter gives viewers a chance to care about the crew of the Drum. Knowing a bit about the surviving members gives their final fates during this episode emotional weight, and Whithouse succeeds in not bogging down the characters with too much exposition or baggage to distract from the rest of the story. We get why these people care for each other, and makes O'Donnell's death mean a little more when it follows a moment like this when she experiences the fact that the TARDIS is bigger on the inside.  And I'm a sap because this scene was so drat cute, I may have rewound it once or twice.  Perhaps the biggest disappointment of the episode for me was that we didn't get to see more of this guy, the Fisher King.  It's an awesome design, and O'Hara utilizes the shadows in the basement of the church to keep him hidden away until his big reveal. It's a vast improvement over the alien from The Caretaker. Maybe it was because of the difficulty of using the design more, or maybe it's the script focusing more on the time-travel aspects, but we only really get a stand-off between the Doctor and the Fisher King in the basement before he gets washed away in a deluge of water. It's a criminal waste of Peter Serafinowicz, best known for his cameo appearance as Howell in the BBC series Black Books https://youtu.be/Emh75AYxnzk Oh, and also for serving as the voice actor for Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace, Funky Pete from Shaun of the Dead, Denarian “They got my dick message” Saal from Guardians of the Galaxy, and Italian (or maybe British?) agent Aldo from Spy. Seriously, an actor this cool and amazing, I demand to see more of him!  Under the Lake is a great episode and Before the Flood just doesn't click as well. Two-parters are a bit tricky to pull off – writers get more time to tell the story, but there's also the risk of padding or rushing the plot along. This story wastes a good villain while laying out the time-travel aspects at the very beginning, robbing the viewers of some of the story's mystery. There are a few tense moments and some lighthearted scenes, mixed with Peter Capaldi putting on a masterclass in portraying the Doctor. Before the Flood is still worth a watch, but overall...  (That's right, he's the real Doctor, much like Norm MacDonald is the real Colonel Sanders) Random Thoughts - As much as I didn't care for the cold open, the musical accompaniment and Capaldi playing an electric guitar was pretty drat cool. - Clara realizing that she was calling out for Cass, who was deaf, and calling herself an idiot. - I can only take the Tivolians in small amounts. Prentiss almost gave me an overdose. - The screaming Capaldi ghost. Whoa.  - Still love the sonic sunglasses. I make no apologies. - This scene, which could have been the modern day equivalent of Harry stalking Sarah Jane in Terror of the Zygons. It's a FANTASTIC use of sound and dramatic tension ruined slightly by Cass touching the floor and gaining Daredevil's “radar sense” for a moment   Cobi's Synopsis – The time-travel aspects are neat and Peter Capaldi is on top of his game, but Before the Flood's script is too on-the-nose with the explanations and doesn't give its main villain enough screentime. Next up - Captured by Vikings, the Doctor and Clara must help protect their village from space warriors from the future... Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in...The Girl Who Died. CobiWann fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 23:30
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CobiWann posted:This type of paradox is known as a “casual loop” but also called a “bootstrap paradox” after its use in the Robert Heinlein story By His Bootstraps. Is a casual loop when your future is predenimed?
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Oct 11, 2015 23:49
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One Swell Foop posted:Is a casual loop when your future is predenimed? No, it's one where AutoCorrect hates me.
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Oct 11, 2015 23:55
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I bought exactly two non-food things costing more than 5 dollars during all of NYCC. One was Masterpiece Grimlock. This is not MP Grimlock:  It's PRETTY GREAT
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Oct 12, 2015 00:28
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DoctorWhat posted:I bought exactly two non-food things costing more than 5 dollars during all of NYCC. That's a pretty solid pick-up!
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Oct 12, 2015 00:35
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DoctorWhat posted:I bought exactly two non-food things costing more than 5 dollars during all of NYCC. Are you going to complete the outfit?
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Oct 12, 2015 00:36
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DoctorWhat posted:
You're not meant to be regenerating yet!  --- Nice reviewl, Cobi. As usual hitting the nail on the head on the positives and shortcomings.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:37
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SirSamVimes posted:Are you going to complete the outfit? I don't know, really! Like, it'd be zero effort to do so accurately at this point, and to approximate it would be even easier. But I needed a medium-weight jacket and it fit real well and didn't break the bank, and especially once I get some darker, more subtle button-ups and tees, I think it'll be a standby of my wardrobe throughout the fall.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:41
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I still thought this was a pretty strong episode in its own right, just that it felt rushed in a way that the first part didn't. In fact the first part was remarkable in how it packed so much into its running time and yet still felt like it just flew by (in a good way). One minor objection I do have though is the Doctor in part one getting so excited at the notion that maybe ghosts do exist, and how without any real elaboration or exploration just started referring to them as electro-magnetic projections.... effectively holograms themselves in line with what the Doctor himself was doing (generate a hologram in a dead person's image with a programmed set of directions to fulfill). Considering how big a deal he made of ghosts in part one, I felt it might have paid to have him verbalize the realization of what they actually were.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:44
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Jerusalem posted:One minor objection I do have though is the Doctor in part one getting so excited at the notion that maybe ghosts do exist, and how without any real elaboration or exploration just started referring to them as electro-magnetic projections.... effectively holograms themselves in line with what the Doctor himself was doing (generate a hologram in a dead person's image with a programmed set of directions to fulfill). Considering how big a deal he made of ghosts in part one, I felt it might have paid to have him verbalize the realization of what they actually were. Yeah, he just states what they are instead of going "oh, I'm an idiot, they're not ghosts, they're projections." There was plenty of room in the script for it. Wait, running around a military village from the 1980's? This is getting more and more Third Doctor.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:52
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DoctorWhat posted:I bought exactly two non-food things costing more than 5 dollars during all of NYCC. Nice. I also appreciated your feigned freakout at the Classic Who panel when they ended right as you got to the mic to ask your question.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:02
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HD DAD posted:Nice. Yeah I'm pretty proud of that.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:13
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Oh, I don't like the Conquered People Chaps, it feels a bit like a Douglas Adams joke that didn't go anywhere A bad experience with one of their race and the Doctor decides he doesn't like the lot of them? What a racist!
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Oct 12, 2015 01:21
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Yeah, the conquered guy was definitely played out like halfway through The God Complex. I groaned when he showed up alive again.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:58
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Well that was pretty poo poo!! I thought that the Moffat two-parter was messy as hell, but it had some fun bits and at least was trying to do something different. Under the Lake, on the other hand, was basically the most trad, straight-down-the-line Who episode, to the point where it felt like a classic series episode done in the style of the new. And that was actually refreshing, in its own way-- just seeing how old Who would work with new Who trappings. Before the Flood though... gently caress, it was a subpar Big Finish audio adapted to TV. Absolutely charmless and generic Who. "The Fisher King" was a massive waste of both Peter Serafinowicz and a potent mythological title, O'Donnell was a fun and personable character who blatantly got stuffed in the refrigerator to fuel boring Bennett's boring angst, and the resolution was rushed to gently caress and totally unsatisfying. The only part I enjoyed was Capaldi's awesome little monologue about the bootstrap paradox at the beginning. I hope they continue to utilize his guitar skills just as past DW used McCoy's circus tricks and Pertwee's love of fast cars (e.g. whenever possible, appropriate or not). EDIT seriously the more I think about this episode the more pissed I get. What was the the point of the Doctor intruding on his own timeline? What was the point of him putting so much emphasis on Clara's phone if he never even called her back? Hell, much as I enjoyed it, what was the point of that cold open monologue? How did the Fisher King make the ghosts? Did Whithouse seriously pull a "lol it was just a hologram i wasn't dead" ending? Did the Doctor seriously beat the villain by just weakly bullshitting him? Was the villain an unused Torchwood enemy recycled for DW or what? Are there actually people who thought this shite was better than Apprentice/Familiar? misadventurous fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 02:07
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That was lovely. Easily my favorite 12th story so far. And just to be clear, you guys are telling me that DoctorWhat had some sort of, unseemly outburst at the panel?
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Oct 12, 2015 04:21
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Rhyno posted:That was lovely. Easily my favorite 12th story so far. It was a bit. At the last day of the con, there was a Classic Who panel that ran for an hour, and the panel got cut off right when I was next in line at the mic. After confirming the mic feed was cut, I stomped around in mock-outrage and demanded an audience with whoever was responsible, presumably the Milkshake-Brings-All-The-Boys-To-The-Yard. it was very silly and not indicative of any genuine immaturity, I assure you.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:28
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DoctorWhat posted:It was a bit. At the last day of the con, there was a Classic Who panel that ran for an hour, and the panel got cut off right when I was next in line at the mic. After confirming the mic feed was cut, I stomped around in mock-outrage and demanded an audience with whoever was responsible, presumably the Milkshake-Brings-All-The-Boys-To-The-Yard. I know, I was referencing a line in Trial of a Timelord.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:41
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Rhyno posted:I know, I was referencing a line in Trial of a Timelord. d'oh, I'm tired as heck after the four days.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:42
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You know, this episode reminded me a lot of the Impossible Planet two parter, but not nearly as good. Maybe because I've been watching the older stuff on netflix and I just watched those episodes. I do hope they keep the electric guitar intro though. I'm not saying it was bad, as the Doctor trapped with people in an isolated base with weird stuff going on is as much Doctor Who as quarries. I really loved the look of the Fisher King. Something I completely forgot is how amazing the scene where the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen are smack talking each other. They both have such contempt for each other, but the Cybermen feel like they're posturing while the Daleks know they have the upper hand.
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Oct 12, 2015 07:11
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Tempo 119 posted:Flapping buttcheeks He calls that the Rear View (in two simultaneous voices)
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Oct 12, 2015 07:20
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twistedmentat posted:Something I completely forgot is how amazing the scene where the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen are smack talking each other. They both have such contempt for each other, but the Cybermen feel like they're posturing while the Daleks know they have the upper hand. I want more scenes of iconic, distinct Who aliens trying to talk poo poo to each other. Not even as a fanservice thing, it's just that Who aliens are generally so defined as characters (for good or bad) that there's a lot to work with on both sides. They'd clearly all have very clear opinions on what makes the other races good or bad, what they have over them and what they could take from them. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 07:24
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The_Doctor posted:Aww yiss. jivjov posted:Wait...why is he wearing the gun belt? He doesn't actually put that on til after the regeneration That's a very excellent question, and if you look over there at that enormously distracting thing, I believe you'll find your answer.
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Oct 12, 2015 07:24
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