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YodaTFK posted:So you are opposed to reasonable reform of gun control laws and the lack of funding for the existing systems on the grounds of "I need to buy this accessory". No? I don't even own any guns so being able to purchase a silencer doesn't matter to me. I'm saying it's dumb to go after things like that when there are bigger and more important things to focus on, like the CDC studying gun violence as someone else mentioned, than trying to argue about silencers or pistol grips. Gun control advocates will not win the "ban scary accessories" or "why do you need this for your murder machine" argument. It's loving dumb and everyone knows it.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:07
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various cheeses posted:People would be a lot more accepting of reasonable reform of gun control laws if "reasonable reform" didn't mean "how much poo poo can we ban while giving up nothing in return". We are at a ludicrous extreme of minimal gun regulation. The idea that we should horse-trade to maintain that level but at different regulations instead of fixing the system is nuts. Gun owners who want to be given sweets and lollypops in exchange for finally agreeing "no seriously, we should actually do universal background checks and actually prosecute people who blatantly break the law with straw purchases" are part of the problem, not potential allies in the solution.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:07
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various cheeses posted:People would be a lot more accepting of reasonable reform of gun control laws if "reasonable reform" didn't mean "how much poo poo can we ban while giving up nothing in return". So if people stop trying to ban useless accessories the NRA will support national gun registries?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:08
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Luigi Thirty posted:What's the gun equivalent of rolling coal fully automatic fire
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Oct 12, 2015 17:09
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YodaTFK posted:So if people stop trying to ban useless accessories the NRA will support national gun registries? Will banning them lead to national gun registries? What are you even saying here.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:10
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gohmak posted:Then you get no new gun control. There isn't any path forward that relies on "reasonable gun owners" who need to be given treats for coming to their loving senses. If it can't be done without them it can't be done with them, because they never, ever, actually support any actual fixes. They support theoretical fixes but then when you write that fix they supposedly support into law - like, say, universal background checks then suddenly there's some problem that makes that particular implementation not ok, but can we please have our machine guns now and also overturn all state laws so everyone needs to honor whatever CCW licence some drunken texan idiot issued.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:10
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evilweasel posted:We are at a ludicrous extreme of minimal gun regulation. The idea that we should horse-trade to maintain that level but at different regulations instead of fixing the system is nuts. Gun owners who want to be given sweets and lollypops in exchange for finally agreeing "no seriously, we should actually do universal background checks and actually prosecute people who blatantly break the law with straw purchases" are part of the problem, not potential allies in the solution. This is how laws are passed, it's been that way since the Romans. I don't know what to tell you if you think otherwise.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:11
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Luigi Thirty posted:What's the gun equivalent of rolling coal shooting a black kid and getting away it.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:12
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On Terra Firma posted:You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with how dumb they are or aren't. No it absolutely is. You only have use for a silencer if you're constantly firing guns, but somehow too stupid to own hearing protection. And you can get 34 decibel reduction earmuffs for $25: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...XAM07MQ091CY9TN That's way cheaper than a suppressor, so it's not even an issue where finances would dictate you can't afford hearing protection but can afford a suppressor. various cheeses posted:People would be a lot more accepting of reasonable reform of gun control laws if "reasonable reform" didn't mean "how much poo poo can we ban while giving up nothing in return".
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Oct 12, 2015 17:12
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On Terra Firma posted:Will banning them lead to national gun registries? What are you even saying here. I'm asking if ending the call to ban mostly useless accessories will be the catalyst that brings the NRA or the gun control voters on board with reforms even you seem to think we need.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:13
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Armyman25 posted:This is how laws are passed, it's been that way since the Romans. I don't know what to tell you if you think otherwise. Ah yes, because when we want to regulate oil wells we have to reduce regulation on gas wells! 
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Oct 12, 2015 17:13
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DaveWoo posted:Sen. Tom Cotton has a great idea for who should be the next Speaker! Ha ha yesss Control Through Fear. *Dick Cheney force-chokes Louie Gohmert to death on the floor*
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Oct 12, 2015 17:13
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Incidentally, concealed carry should absolutely be illegal unless you can prove a specific need. If you want to carry a gun around like some insecure manchild, put that poo poo out in the open so everyone can know about your mental defectiveness.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:14
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Armyman25 posted:This is how laws are passed, it's been that way since the Romans. I don't know what to tell you if you think otherwise. You horse-trade with reasonable people you can work with to assemble a majority that gets the job done. Part of that is identifying the people whose support can never actually be obtained, or whose price for their support is too high. People whose reaction is "well, i will support this self-evidently reasonable thing only if i get my insane sweetener that has nothing to do with it" are in the latter category. Once the NRA and the gun nut absolutists are broken there definitely will be a time to decide what regulations work and which should be adjusted or removed as unnecessary, but it's not now and the idea that we should horse-trade on the existing level of regulation instead of raise it is nonsense. That is an approach not worth taking - not least, because the "reasonable gun owners" are simply not trustworthy partners as the last decade has shown.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:16
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YodaTFK posted:I'm asking if ending the call to ban mostly useless accessories will be the catalyst that brings the NRA or the gun control voters on board with reforms even you seem to think we need. No, it won't. I'm asking if you think getting the concession of banning silencers will get you any closer to your goal of meaningful gun law reform.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:16
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It might be easier to believe "gun owners will be on board with gun control if you just stop banning useless accessories!" if the gun owners made any effort to improve treatment for chronic mental illness, as that doesn't even involve limiting guns.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:20
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Add pistols to the nfa and increase tax stamp to $3500 for inflation. Make silencers title 1 and remove the 922 part count law. There's some horse trading.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:20
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Armyman25 posted:This is how laws are passed, it's been that way since the Romans. I don't know what to tell you if you think otherwise. Hmmm it sure would be bad news for your argument if a poll or something showed a super majority of americans want more gun control... oh dear.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:20
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Nintendo Kid posted:Incidentally, concealed carry should absolutely be illegal. If you want to carry a gun around like some insecure manchild, put that poo poo out in the open so everyone can know about your mental defectiveness. I like this better.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:22
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James Garfield posted:It might be easier to believe "gun owners will be on board with gun control if you just stop banning useless accessories!" if the gun owners made any effort to improve treatment for chronic mental illness, as that doesn't even involve limiting guns. I don't think I'm saying that if people back off trying to ban certain accessories that will somehow bring the NRA around to giving ground. It won't. At all. I'm saying it's a dumb waste of time and energy because you're not going to get anything out of it.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:23
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Hmmm it should would be bad news for your argument if a poll or something showed a super majority of americans want more gun control... oh dear. So propose a bill that expands UBC, makes it more convenient to be used, and eliminates the restrictions silencers. Offer some carrots here.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:23
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James Garfield posted:It might be easier to believe "gun owners will be on board with gun control if you just stop banning useless accessories!" if the gun owners made any effort to improve treatment for chronic mental illness, as that doesn't even involve limiting guns. Well since the treatments tend to include "remove the person's guns so they can't harm themselves or others", they tend to not actually support treatment either.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:23
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Armyman25 posted:So propose a bill that expands UBC, makes it more convenient to be used, and eliminates the restrictions silencers. Offer some carrots here. 90% of Americans want UBC alone, there is no need for carrots to be offered.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:24
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Armyman25 posted:This is how laws are passed, it's been that way since the Romans. I don't know what to tell you if you think otherwise. the difference is that the romans wouldn't have tolerated whiny manchild gun owners and probably would have crucified them outside the city gate as a warning to potential copycats. they have a lot to teach us IMO
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Oct 12, 2015 17:26
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"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars."
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Oct 12, 2015 17:27
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Raskolnikov38 posted:90% of Americans want UBC alone, there is no need for carrots to be offered. Nah, you don't need 90% of Americans in a democracy! You need approval from your special interest group.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:27
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various cheeses posted:while giving up nothing in return". Such as?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:27
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various cheeses posted:"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars." Same
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Oct 12, 2015 17:28
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various cheeses posted:"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars." why dont you and deusex go and gently caress off back to the tfr thread you're 'mocking' us in?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:29
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Guys we're making this way too complicated. Just ban all white people from owning firearms.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:30
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Open carry is quite possibly the most pathetic thing ever. The only times I ever see people open carry anyway are at some lovely mall or big box store. It's always some pasty, skinny white kid wearing sneans too.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:30
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various cheeses posted:"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars." hrm yeah sounds good to me here's the thing, at this point guns should be banned just to spite gun owners, literally regardless of real world dangers. that's how bad gun owners are
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Oct 12, 2015 17:30
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various cheeses posted:"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars." Why does your desire to own more toys trump parents who don't want their children slaughtered at school?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:30
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Why does your desire to own more toys trump parents who don't want their children slaughtered at school? because racist morons who have been dead nearly 250 years wrote a sentence on it
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Oct 12, 2015 17:31
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because racist morons who have been dead nearly 250 years wrote a sentence on it Those fuckers.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:32
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Such as? Relaxed rules on silencers/short barreled rifles/etc. Maybe stopping stupid import rules like not being able to import a barrel. Maybe admitting that pursuing a features ban is dumb as gently caress and doesn't affect crime whatsoever.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:33
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comes along bort posted:Guys we're making this way too complicated. Just ban all white people from owning firearms. As a certified white bread cracker I second this. No guns for honkey!
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Oct 12, 2015 17:33
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various cheeses posted:Relaxed rules on silencers/short barreled rifles/etc. lmao you are completely insane
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Oct 12, 2015 17:34
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various cheeses posted:Relaxed rules on silencers/short barreled rifles/etc. Maybe stopping stupid import rules like not being able to import a barrel. Maybe admitting that pursuing a features ban is dumb as gently caress and doesn't affect crime whatsoever. Why do you need all of these things?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:34
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various cheeses posted:"We just want reasonable gun control, like banning everything that looks scary, preventing people from carrying them ever, and making everything cost thousands of dollars." What's your irrational phobia that you use to justify hiding a gun on you in public and at your boring office job?
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Oct 12, 2015 17:34
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