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Hugoon Chavez posted:I'm going to assume you live in the US. Isn't it better to go live in a country that's fighting the Right-Wing? Be part of the change! Join the Chavism and the 21st century Socialism, stop being an armchair communist and become a soldier of the revolution, come on! Ah the lazy "If you think it's so great why don't you live there" argument. For the record I would certainly be interested in seeing the revolutionary collectives working to make a better Venezuela first hand. Of course you seem quite in favor of U.S. intervention, wouldn't you like to live somewhere that has experienced the benefits of benevolent U.S. policy, like Iraq, Libya, or Syria?
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Oct 12, 2015 23:04
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Ah the lazy "If you think it's so great why don't you live there" argument. For the record I would certainly be interested in seeing the revolutionary collectives working to make a better Venezuela first hand. Of course you seem quite in favor of U.S. intervention, wouldn't you like to live somewhere that has experienced the benefits of benevolent U.S. policy, like Iraq, Libya, or Syria? Hmm yeah the US ruined Libya and Syria.
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Oct 13, 2015 00:42
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Well Japan, Germany, and the part of Korea the U.S. had influence over are all pretty nice now. Perhaps the U.S. just didn't bomb those other countries enough? Makes you think.
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Oct 13, 2015 00:48
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Ah the lazy "If you think it's so great why don't you live there" argument. For the record I would certainly be interested in seeing the revolutionary collectives working to make a better Venezuela first hand. Of course you seem quite in favor of U.S. intervention, wouldn't you like to live somewhere that has experienced the benefits of benevolent U.S. policy, like Iraq, Libya, or Syria? Return to GBS.
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Oct 13, 2015 01:08
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Ah the lazy "If you think it's so great why don't you live there" argument. For the record I would certainly be interested in seeing the revolutionary collectives working to make a better Venezuela first hand. Of course you seem quite in favor of U.S. intervention, wouldn't you like to live somewhere that has experienced the benefits of benevolent U.S. policy, like Iraq, Libya, or Syria? I'm against US intervention, rather have my country deal with its own problems. That said if it does happen and my people live better as a result, I ain't complaining. My argument is about as lazy as you empty quoting articles from a source that literally says it speculates half the story.
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Oct 13, 2015 10:50
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Has there been discussion already on these? http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11545
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Oct 13, 2015 11:07
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Stefu posted:Has there been discussion already on these? http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11545 Now obviously I might be wrong, but that conversation Bracci cites never loving happened. In the subway, at going-to-work hours? that thing is a tuna can, it's almost impossible to hold a long conversation there, much less a debate. Also the ton of random details "another man, black-skinned, who was younger but needed to sit down because he had a recent leg operation" ok? And even if that conversation happened I would expect a lot more people jumping in and a bunch of screaming. You can count on that if there's a political debate going on inside public transportation, there's always a bunch of people ready to debate loudly in favor of their party.
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Oct 13, 2015 11:50
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What I don't understand is how a person can claim to be "for the people", to worry about the poor and to want to look out for their best interest and support the PSUV. There's a line there somewhere separating genuine concern for the disadvantaged and blind ideological zeal. When the PSUV outright refuse to address issues that affect the poor the most (insecurity, inflation, scarcity, etc.), how can you possibly say it's the party of the poor? When the PSUV's response to multi-hour long lines at supermarkets is to "enjoy" them, how can you possibly say that party is looking out for the poor? If your concern really lies with Venezuela's poor, you'll realize that the PSUV as it exists today is not interested in anything but staying in power. Whatever idyllic notions you may have of Chavez or the party "in the good old days" is long dead. I'm not saying that a party that truly has the welfare of the poor in its heart isn't possible in Venezuela. I'm just saying that PSUV is not it.
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Oct 13, 2015 13:15
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Communism isn't about helping the poor any more than fascism is about helping the nation. It's just a veneer over wanting to dominate and kill people for psychological reasons. Venezuela's government and especially Venezuela's foreign supporters are the best demonstration of that fact.
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Oct 13, 2015 13:24
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M. Discordia posted:Communism isn't about helping the poor any more than fascism is about helping the nation. It's just a veneer over wanting to dominate and kill people for psychological reasons. Venezuela's government and especially Venezuela's foreign supporters are the best demonstration of that fact. This, and people that have been brain washed (by others, or themselves) to believe everything wrong in life is a direct consequence of RIGHT WING MANIPULATION can be super apologetic about a regime that says it's against the right-wing, even if it does nothing concrete to show his stance and is instead constantly kicking their believers in the face. VVV exactly what I tried to say. gently caress Venezuelans, who cares if they are suffering in a shithole third-world country as long as their propaganda validates my worldviews? Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 13, 2015 14:40
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They actually enjoy the fact that Venezuela's government is more interested in trolling the U.S. State Department than keeping the country from burning down -- the whole point is gently caress-you-dadism. Some European social democracy just quietly running a functional welfare state doesn't let them take their SHOCKING AND EXTREME "it's actually good when left-wing governments imprison political dissidents" troll positions. To them, other countries exist solely to feed their Internet personas.
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Oct 13, 2015 14:51
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Chuck Boone posted:What I don't understand is how a person can claim to be "for the people", to worry about the poor and to want to look out for their best interest and support the PSUV. There's a line there somewhere separating genuine concern for the disadvantaged and blind ideological zeal. The same reason why right wing parties are often assumed to be "better at the economy" and "low on spending". It's the marketing that these parties have been doing since their existence. The PSUV is the party of the poor because they have successfully marketed themselves as that. The reality is that the PSUV and many of their supporters are ideologues and not politicians or voters. Ideologues aren't loyal to their country or specific social classes, they are only loyal to their ideology. Their end goal is to stomp out free market capitalism, regardless if they have prompt up any sort of alternative. wiregrind posted:There are several socialist parties with very different approaches, if the short sighted chavist approach failed, there might be some other socialists who who might be more successful in not screwing everyone over. It's doable. Bolivia and Ecuador seem to be doing well. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 13, 2015 18:21
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Hugoon Chavez posted:I got a few friends there and they're having a rough time. Caraqueños (people from Caracas) are not as used to blackouts and water outages as the rest of the country since they've had far less, but things are pretty bad in Guarenas in the last month. Do the baseball teams get paid in U.S dollars? I was watching the leones play, and they have U.S players on their teams. Does anyone know how much they are making? Hows the situation with Colombia right now? Everyone I know that's still in Venezuela, or left as soon as that happened, talks about it like the berlin wall v.2
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Oct 13, 2015 18:50
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lemonslol posted:Hows the situation with Colombia right now? Everyone I know that's still in Venezuela, or left as soon as that happened, talks about it like the berlin wall v.2 As far as I know the official border crossings are still closed. The states of exception declared along the border won't expire before early December in the earliest instances (namely the affected municipalities in Tachira). In terms of how much attention it's getting, there's been a marked decrease in the "Colombia is the root of all our problems" rhetoric over the last few weeks. Maduro spoke at the UN General Assembly meeting, and the Essequibo dispute with Guyana took center stage again. Since the PSUV officially launched its election campaign earlier this month, a lot of the talk coming from the PSUV has revolved around it.
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Oct 13, 2015 19:18
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How common were these lines at supermarkets before the PSUV took power?
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Oct 13, 2015 21:14
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-Troika- posted:How common were these lines at supermarkets before the PSUV took power? gay for gacha fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2015 21:20
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I'm personally fine with anecdotes from people who actually live in Venezuela. They are considerably more reliable than whatever Borneo Jimmy, Salt Golem , regurgitates on a weekly basis.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:21
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I was in Venezuela for six weeks this summer and HOO BOY do I have anecdotes But seriously, poo poo is terrible.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:41
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The earliest anecdote I have involving food shortages goes back to probably around 2003. I spent a summer in my grandmother's house in Valencia. She had wanted to bake me a cake for my birthday, but wasn't able to because she wasn't able to find the ingredients for it (I believe she couldn't find eggs or milk). I don't remember lining up for things back then, but I remember the shortages resulted in empty shelves. During that same summer I spent in Valencia, I remember going to a bodega near my grandmother's house one day and noticing empty shelves. I took a picture of an empty shelf and I vividly remember the owner of the bodega coming up to me after and saying, "A el que saca fotos le saco los ojos" [If you take pictures I'll take [out] your eyes]. My brother was in Caracas in 2011. My uncle wanted to have a BBQ, so my brother went out with him to get meat. They had to go to three different places to get meat for the BBQ. I don't think he had to line up for it, but again, there were shortages. Others will be able to confirm/refute this, but my understanding is that shortages/lines in the interior states has been around for a while (10+ years?). It's only been relatively recently that the shortage has hit Caracas hard, and that the lines have grown to the multi-hour ordeals that they are today. On the shortages: I don't have the link handy with me, but within the last two weeks or so the national government struck a deal with Makro, a major private supermarket chain, to divert its supply away from its big stores to smaller supermarkets and bodegas. The reasoning for this is that by diffusing the stock you'll avoid situations where everyone goes to line up at the same place. I believe the initiative applies only to the Caracas area. This doesn't at all address the core of the problem (lack of imports/production failing to meet demand), but desperate times... Vlex posted:I was in Venezuela for six weeks this summer and HOO BOY do I have anecdotes You were doing (archaeology or geography...?) work there, right? I'd be really interest to hear what you experienced there.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:49
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lemonslol posted:Do the baseball teams get paid in U.S dollars? I was watching the leones play, and they have U.S players on their teams. Does anyone know how much they are making? I can't speak to the Venezuelan side, but here's some baseball info from an American fan: The Venezeulan and Dominican winter leagues are the two most prestigious. Anyone active on an MLB roster probably is playing winter ball more to stay in shape and competitive for a roster spot than for the money. Conversely, people in the minors don't make very much and will feel the pain if they are paid in worthless currency. This year, there were 63 Venezuelan-born players active in MLB throughout the season, and 139 total Venezuelans with Major League experience active at some level of professional baseball in North America. For both figures, Venezuela is the second-most common place of birth for players after the U.S. For better or for worse, baseball players are the most visible cultural export of Venezuela to the U.S. As the situation continues to deteriorate, you will probably see more of them apply for U.S. citizenship, and possibly complications in moving players in and out of the country. It will get sports fans to take notice, at least.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:56
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Chuck Boone posted:You were doing (archaeology or geography...?) work there, right? I'd be really interest to hear what you experienced there. Yeah, archaeology. I haven't forgotten the promised effortpost (from like page 2 or something) but the start of the semester is always hectic.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:01
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I just stumbled on a piece from the BBC on decreased activity in the country's ports. The article points out that activity in the country's ports dropped 34.5% between 2013 and 2014. In absolute numbers, while 1,441,673 containers came in to Venezuela through its ports in 2013, only 943,440 did so in 2014. While there is no official data for 2015, the article points out that the chamber of commerce in Puerto Cabello - the country's largest port - estimates that traffic this year is down 50% from last year. In La Guaira, home to another large port, facilities there are inactive 90% of the time. The article also links to a report by Stratfor released in late August that talks about how the oil price drop beginning in 2014 really hurt imports. This timeline coincides with the spread in location and severity of the supermarket lines. The report also includes these satellite images of Puerto Cabello taken in 2012 and 2015 showing the decrease in container traffic:  Vlex posted:Yeah, archaeology. I haven't forgotten the promised effortpost (from like page 2 or something) but the start of the semester is always hectic. Cool! I'm eager to hear it whenever you find the time.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:35
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Now this is disturbing http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11547 quote:Caracas, October 12th 2015 (venezuelanalysis.com) - One of Venezuela’s main rural social movements, the Revolutionary Bolivar and Zamora Tide (CRBZ), has publicly denounced what it describes as the politically motivated murder of one of its activists, Luis Hernando Lázaro Chávez, last Tuesday, October 6th.
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Oct 13, 2015 23:10
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Now this is disturbing When you can't even write up a paragraph to accompany the vzanalysis drivel you only make it obvious that your heart's just not in it, Jimmy. You could at least source something from RT, spice up that bland chavista agitprop with some exotic Kremlin FUD.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:10
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Constant Hamprince posted:When you can't even write up a paragraph to accompany the vzanalysis drivel you only make it obvious that your heart's just not in it, Jimmy. You could at least source something from RT, spice up that bland chavista agitprop with some exotic Kremlin FUD.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:20
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Chuck Boone posted:The earliest anecdote I have involving food shortages goes back to probably around 2003. I spent a summer in my grandmother's house in Valencia. She had wanted to bake me a cake for my birthday, but wasn't able to because she wasn't able to find the ingredients for it (I believe she couldn't find eggs or milk). There have been some small shortages every now and then, but nothing like the current situation. Having lived in Caracas (and toured every other major city constantly) for 24 years, I never saw the kind of scarcity my mom's living right now (that I could experience in a far more subdued manner when I visited this year). Used to be that sometimes you couldn't find something specific that day, or week. When Chavez started targeting producers there were sometimes scarcity of certain foods, and more commonly, brands. Keep in mind that Venezuela is... I guess brand loyal would be the term. We used Matel oil, Las Llaves soap, corn flour Pan, etc. The other brands are mostly filler, but we look for the brands that have been present for years and form part of our identity. So sometimes, for instance, there was a "scarcity" of Mavesa butter, but you could get something else. When the oil strike in 2003 hit we saw the first actual scarcity in years. Imports stopped, production stopped. There were a bunch of weird off-brands popping up to fill the void (another anecdote: the Venezuelan replacement for Coca Cola was called Big Cola and it was incredibly lovely. You Venezuelans remember Big Cola?) and we managed by for a few months before things stabilized. Obviously after the oil strike everything started changing and things being hard to find started to be a problem, again, much less than now. Right now, as I've commented before, things are so difficult that families start hoarding what they can get, because they could spend a month without the chance to restock certain items. My mother-in-law had her freezer full of meat, but no sugar. My mom had eight packages of coffee, but couldn't find milk, and she tours the city every week trying to find dog's food. Luckily one of the dog is a rescue and the other has a black hole instead of stomach so they're not picky. It's not only food, medicine and basic needs products are also really hard to find. A few days ago my group of friends were saying that their girls they are seeing can't find their birth control pills and they are having problems finding condoms. I told them that protected sex is a right-wing conspirancy to prevent the rise of the proletariat. As a Venezuelan, if you travel abroad you'll probably have a picture standing in a supermarket surrounded by food. It's bizarre for everyone else, but it's basically a meme for us. edit: vlex, if you get around to your effort post, I'd love some details about your actual study. I did 2 years of anthropology in the UCV before moving to Spain, if I stayed I could've met you! (that's a lie I would've never graduated) Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 08:19
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quote:As a Venezuelan, if you travel abroad you'll probably have a picture standing in a supermarket surrounded by food. It's bizarre for everyone else, but it's basically a meme for us.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:21
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On the topic of free and fair elections: Maduro has a weekly television show called En Contacto con Maduro that usually airs Tuesday evenings. On last night's show, Maduro talked about the fact that the opposition does not want to sign a document agreeing to respect the results of the elections. The opposition has said that they won't sign the document because, a) they don't believe Maduro would adhere to the agreement anyway, and B) instead of signing documents for show, the government should take concrete steps to ensure the fairness of the election. Maduro's apparently pretty upset about this ordeal because this is what he said last night on his television show: quote:Then Chuo Torrealba [the head of the opposition bloc] came out saying that he wouldn't sign anything, and he called for an electoral rebellion. Electoral rebellion, Chuo Torrealba? Knock it off, because there's a really beautiful and modern prison in Guarico. In Venezuela there will be peace through any means. The "electoral rebellion" Maduro referenced comes from an open letter Torrealba wrote a few days ago, part of which reads: quote:In a totalitarian government with opposition leaders in jail, with regions of the country militarized even though there is no internal or external conflict to justify it, and with criminal groups carrying out attacks with grenades that are only imported, stored and guarded by the government, the elections are not a "democratic party" and the vote is more than a right. In this kind of situation, the elections are a REBELLION - the only one possible - an electoral rebellion, and the vote is the weapon of the free man. There have been a string of maybe half a dozen grenade attacks across the country against police stations over the last two weeks. The opposition is blaming the Ministry of Defense for letting the weapons flow out of storage, while the government is blaming the opposition for carrying out the attacks. This is what Maduro said last night regarding the attacks: quote:They have the never to say that the grenades that they're throwing at policy installations are the fault of the National Armed Forces. They're immoral and insensitive (...) They [the opposition] are the ones who send paramilitary groups to attack police forces, [electrical] substations, to kill over here, kill over there, and then they blame our Armed Forces that is only protecting the people.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:15
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Our armed forces, protecting the people one unlawful search and detention at a time. Not even people that believe in Maduro trust the MIlitary. They police the cities and look for any excuse to rob you with made up charges that force you to pay a bribe. The army acting as police inside the cities in peaceful times is actually a red flag that says a lot about our country. I have nothing but complete disdain for Venezuela's armed forces.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:45
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Chuck Boone posted:There have been a string of maybe half a dozen grenade attacks across the country against police stations over the last two weeks. The opposition is blaming the Ministry of Defense for letting the weapons flow out of storage, while the government is blaming the opposition for carrying out the attacks. This is what Maduro said last night regarding the attacks: Decapitations, machete killings, sabotage, political assassinations and grenade attacks, the opposition sure have a winning electoral strategy. Can anybody tell me why these psychopaths should be in charge of Venezuela? Chuck, you say the right wing opposition is for the poor, yet as bad as things may be in Venezuela, imagine how much worse it would get with a right wing economic policy of privatization and austerity.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:39
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Can anybody tell me why these psychopaths should be in charge of Venezuela? I dunno. You tell me why the PSUV should be in charge.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:58
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Decapitations, machete killings, sabotage, political assassinations and grenade attacks, the opposition sure have a winning electoral strategy. Can anybody tell me why these psychopaths should be in charge of Venezuela? Chuck, you say the right wing opposition is for the poor, yet as bad as things may be in Venezuela, imagine how much worse it would get with a right wing economic policy of privatization and austerity. The first thing I'll say is that there is no evidence linking any of those things to the opposition. Remember last year when the PSUV said they found e-mails written by Maria Corina Machado, saying that she was plotting to assassinate Maduro? Remember when Diosdado Cabello went on his television show last year and said that they'd arrested a terrorist mercenary hired by the opposition to carry out a car bomb campaign? Remember what happened to those claims? Nothing happened to them, because they were completely false. There is a mountain of precedent that suggests that what you're referring to is the old PSUV tactic: "Nevermind facts: go on television and accuse the opposition of doing every evil under the sun". Put yourself in the shoes of the MUD campaign managers. They've seen the polls. 80% voting intention; 80% decided voters for the MUD, 20% for the PSUV. What could they possibly have to gain by lobbing grenades around? They've got the election in the bag thanks to the absolute incompetence with which the PSUV has run the country over the last few years. Second, I'm not sure that the opposition is for the poor specifically, but I believe that they will help them much more than the PSUV does or will. Re-electing a gang of kleptocrats who don't care how many millions of lives they ruin so long as they make an extra buck is just absurd. I don't think Venezuela will suddenly become a paradise if the opposition wins on December 6, but I do think that an opposition-run National Assembly will start to undo some of the damage that PSUV has done.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:44
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Hey Borneo Jimmy, how much does the PSUV pay you to post here? It's not like more than a few people here are even eligible to vote in Venezuela.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:51
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-Troika- posted:Hey Borneo Jimmy, how much does the PSUV pay you to post here? It's not like more than a few people here are even eligible to vote in Venezuela. He's trolling you. AND YOU ARE FALLING FOR IT
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Oct 15, 2015 02:06
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Chuck Boone posted:The first thing I'll say is that there is no evidence linking any of those things to the opposition.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:07
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Borneo Jimmy posted:What about the Chavistas killed during the barricades in 2014? Or the 300 land reform activists assassinated by paramilitaries? For every chavista killed in the barricades there was a non-chavista killed by colectivos armados (or whatever you want to call pro-government armed groups) or security forces. SEBIN agents were arrested for killing the first casualty of the protests, Bassil da Costa. The last person to be killed in an anti-government protest (by my reckoning) was a high school student named Kluivert Roa, who was murdered by a National Guard soldier in San Cristobal, Tachira on February 24 of this year. Does that absolve anti-government protesters? Absolutely not. There is no place in a democratic society for the violence we saw last year. But saying that anti-government protesters were responsible for deaths while ignoring the fact that the government and government supporters were responsible for deaths as well is disingenuous. I'm not familiar with the 300 land reform activists you've mentioned, but I'd say that if you're telling me that they were assassinated by paramilitaries, well, then there's your answer. There is absolutely no evidence - aside from Maduro's ramblings - that the Mesa de la Unidad Democratica is involved in organizing/financing/conducting paramilitary activities. In a country that has the second highest homicide rate on the planet, there's a whole list of explanations for murders before getting to "opposition-coordinated paramilitary campaign against land reform activists". Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 03:37
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At this point if the opposition managed to win they would have a torn country in their hands and massive pressure upon them, if the PSUV wanted to sneak out they would let the opposition win, campaign against them from the sidelines as they struggle governing, and jump back in as soon as possible. Or maybe the goverment knows they screwed up so badly that they would never get re-elected if they let go, so they cling to their position as hard as they can, even when doing so slowly earns them dictatorship-level backlash. wiregrind fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 11:16
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Chuck Boone posted:A story from earlier this year re-surfaced onto the news cycle this week and it looks to have some telling implications for the Parliamentary elections. And wouldn't you know it, 13 Supreme Court judges conveniently decided now would be an excellent time to announce their retirement. I'm expecting Maduro to be granted decree powers any day now.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:22
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Manual Rosales was the governor of Zulia state from 2000 to 2008, and ran against Chavez in the 2006 presidential election. In 2008, Rosales was charged with corruption and he fled the country. He's lived in Peru for the past six years, and today he's coming back to Venezuela. He's expected to land in Maracaibo in a flight from Aruba later this afternoon. The Attorney General said on Sunday that since the case against Rosales is still open, he will be arrested "immediately" upon his return. The problem is that there have been some very serious allegations regarding the integrity of the case against him. Earlier this year, a politician named Jose Luis Pirela said that a judge named Eladio Aponte Aponte approached in him 2008 with a set of false accusations he wanted Pirela to make against Rosales. Aponte Aponte defected to the United States in 2012 and told the media that he made rulings based on direct orders from Chavez and other top PSUV officials. He said: quote:They just asked for favors that I complied with. And woe be the judge that refused to cooperate. ... They were dismissed. Needless to say, the accusations against Rosales are shaky at best, but it looks like the government is ready to handcuff him as soon as he arrives lest he get people riled up. I don't have the link handy, but the head of one of the opposition parties said that they would be at the airport to provide peaceful resistance to Rosales' arrest if it were to take place. beer_war posted:And wouldn't you know it, 13 Supreme Court judges conveniently decided now would be an excellent time to announce their retirement. There we go! There's nothing suspicious at all about 40% of the nation's top court *cough* resigning *cough* less than two months before the PSUV is likely to lose the National Assembly.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:17
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Hey guys, I'm thinking of starting my own political focused forum. I was wondering if I started one if any of you would be interested in joining?beer_war posted:And wouldn't you know it, 13 Supreme Court judges conveniently decided now would be an excellent time to announce their retirement. Well poo poo, that is terrible.
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Oct 17, 2015 06:06
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