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That cracked guy said one piece is his favourite anime of all time. lol
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Oct 12, 2015 11:51
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Is that a Quincy mark on the roller coaster cart? Ichigo is now basically every supernatural thing possible, from what I've heard. Vampire-werewolf-frankenstein, original character, do not steal.
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Oct 12, 2015 18:50
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Ichigo being everything is by far the stupidest plot twist in Bleach, and let's be real here: it has a lot of competition.
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Oct 12, 2015 18:51
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What kind of shonen protagonist is Ichigo anyway? Luffy is all freedom and dreams... Naruto was like.. Idiot loser, but main character, so it turns or okay for him.. But I never got past the first volume of bleach.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:47
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He started out as the fairly typical "gets in fights and is a loser" shonen guy who stumbles on mystical powers and now has mystical powers with which to get into fights and be a That very quickly turned into "blank slate with power of the week, wielded as a weapon to kill the enemy of the week" only "week" in this case means "half-decade" at the pacing of Kubo.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:51
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He's "I fight for my friends even if I just met them, or it would be absolutely fuckshit bonkers to actually attempt to help them, or doing so would probably make things even worse in the long run if I weren't the protagonist of a fictional series" at his base just like Naruto and Luffy are.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:52
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Space-Bird posted:What kind of shonen protagonist is Ichigo anyway? Luffy is all freedom and dreams... Naruto was like.. Idiot loser, but main character, so it turns or okay for him.. But I never got past the first volume of bleach. naruto was "loser that wanted to be a leader through the power of friendship" which is, tbh, a fine path of character growth just, you know, naruto. but yeah, ichigo never struck me as having an interesting primary motivation.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:01
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For all its other flaws, I'd say Naruto himself is fairly clear in his goals, personality and motivation. Even if it's dumb, you know what they are. Ichigo has the personality of a hermit crab or maybe a mussel.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:08
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Ichigo has never had any real time to mature, or even have a personality anymore.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:11
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Initially Ichigo's presented as a sort of beleaguered and snarky but ultimately dependable guy to have around. He might complain about having to book it halfway across town to save somebody, sure, but he'll always be there when the chips are down. It works well enough for the first couple volumes and makes for some amusing character interactions between him and the more serious-minded, duty-bound Rukia who's forced to rely on him. Ichigo never really had a direction he was heading in, he just did his part to help folks out. Not really enough to sustain a long-runner, but it was well-suited to early Bleach's episodic approach to storytelling (with more than a few hooks hinting that something was coming to shake up his life). The problem is the longer Bleach has gone on, the more Ichigo's personality has simply drained away. These days he's pretty much a blank slate like Nighthand said, arbitrarily the hero and the only person anybody can count on to do anything. Except it's not arbitrary actually because he's secretly the product of a forbidden union between blah blah who cares. His "Goals" are still fundamentally the same as when the series started, meaning his only real purpose in the story is to resolve other people's conflicts without really having one of his own. At least, that was the case up until I dropped it. Might be different now, but I doubt it.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:15
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Elfgames posted:Ichigo has never had any real time to mature, or even have a personality anymore. Time was not the issue, he's had over a decade's worth of that. It's just that all the character development and poo poo went to the side characters instead of the main character. And all that development is usually ignored once it's done anyway, as if growing as a person has an endpoint and once you get there you are defined by your single most prominent trait.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:18
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Ichigo's growth stopped when his mother died. The guilt of him thinking he killed his mother hosed with him and everyone around him knew it wasn't his fault and never talked to him about it because ???. Then 700 chapters later his dad spills the beans.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:26
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I remember years ago some friends were saying Bleach was ripping off Yu Yu Hakusho and someone tried to compare Ichigo with Yusuke. I don't remember the points he made though.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:27
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Ichigo's dad turning out to be a shinigami was also dumb. Grand Fisher was the only interesting villain in the series and the only bad guy with a personal connection to Ichigo and Kubo just wastes him in one panel.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:28
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Mraagvpeine posted:I remember years ago some friends were saying Bleach was ripping off Yu Yu Hakusho and someone tried to compare Ichigo with Yusuke. I don't remember the points he made though. I haven't read or watched much of Bleach, but Yusuke turning out to be half demon was kinda lame, but he was still pretty chill afterwards.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:34
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Mraagvpeine posted:I remember years ago some friends were saying Bleach was ripping off Yu Yu Hakusho and someone tried to compare Ichigo with Yusuke. I don't remember the points he made though. I always thought they were really similar at their core. Teenaged punk dies to solve mysteries and deal with ghosts.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:48
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Bad Seafood posted:Ichigo's dad turning out to be a shinigami was also dumb. I was reading Ichigo's Dad reveal the same time Garp's reveal anime is great
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Oct 12, 2015 22:36
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Advice posted:That Bleach one is actually pretty amazing. You're on Mr. Kubo's Wild Ride, even the characters are stuck on it, they're not even happy about it. The current and former villains, always stupidly mysterious and omnipotent, watch over you as well. It's a loving nightmare. the roller coaster refers to the fact that ichigo had to go up to a sky palace to train in the most recent arc, but then he was sent back down to earth, but he was allowed to come back to the sky, but he was dispatched to soul society, but the fighting was actually back at the sky palace, but he was knocked about halfway down by the bad guys, but he's back at the palace now and ready to kick some butt, maybe, whatever
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Oct 13, 2015 01:01
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i enjoy reading bleach every week, but it objectively sucks
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Oct 13, 2015 01:03
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:In my search for the original I found that this got updated. I'm a page late but this is tremendous
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Oct 13, 2015 04:01
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I can totally see the YYH bleach parallel. I guess that makes one piece the successor to original dragon ball and Naruto the successor to like DBZ. One Piece seems to stay an adventure while the other series just become pure fight man times eventually.
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Oct 13, 2015 04:09
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Pirate Goku and Ninja Goku.
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Oct 13, 2015 04:47
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Green Intern posted:Pirate Goku and Ninja Goku. All three are aspects of Goku. One day they shall merge and our savior will be reborn
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Oct 13, 2015 05:27
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What's the third aspect?
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Oct 13, 2015 05:56
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Friendship, Freedom, and Fighting. Luffy could also be Food I guess.
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Oct 13, 2015 05:59
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Naruto and Bleach both stole from things far far better than they, and then, aside from very early on, just had no idea where to take any of it themselves. So we got people crying after the brooding rear end in a top hat and endless white voids. I'm glad One Piece never fell apart like that, but being very much it's own thing (we're going to ignore the influences from dragon ball here because gently caress it at this point all shonen battle manga has that) probably helpt to keep this from happening. Now I'm just crossing my fingers that My Hero Academia doesn't find a way to go horribly off the rails and squander all of it's promise.
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Oct 13, 2015 06:18
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NecroMonster posted:Naruto and Bleach both stole from things far far better than they, and then, aside from very early on, just had no idea where to take any of it themselves. So we got people crying after the brooding rear end in a top hat and endless white voids. I don't actually consider Dragon Ball (even ignoring the Z part) "far far better" than Naruto or Bleach, to be honest. Dragon Ball's characterization is shallower than either, and it's really obvious that Toriyama is just making everything up as he goes along from the beginning (while the obvious retcons in Naruto and Bleach don't occur until a long way in). Edit: Although Naruto also takes elements from Hunter x Hunter, which I do really consider better than Naruto.
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Oct 13, 2015 07:00
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Was this the first arc where we had an honest-to-goodness, "Waiting for Goku" moment? I mean the team usually leaves the big bad for Luffy and many times they will stall for him, but an integral part of WfG is the hero showing up right at the last possible second, when we've already had a, "Well I guess he's too late and X is going to die" moment, and the hero often steps in to physically block the final blow and start the fight. And I feel like often times Zoro is in a position to stop the big bad and is clearly able to but Luffy has to be the one to do it, due to positioning or setbacks. This time Zoro had no intention of doing anything but stalling for Luffy.
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Oct 13, 2015 07:50
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Advice posted:Was this the first arc where we had an honest-to-goodness, "Waiting for Goku" moment? I mean the team usually leaves the big bad for Luffy and many times they will stall for him, but an integral part of WfG is the hero showing up right at the last possible second, when we've already had a, "Well I guess he's too late and X is going to die" moment, and the hero often steps in to physically block the final blow and start the fight. Most arcs generally stall for Luffy.
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Oct 13, 2015 08:05
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Advice posted:Was this the first arc where we had an honest-to-goodness, "Waiting for Goku" moment? I mean the team usually leaves the big bad for Luffy and many times they will stall for him, but an integral part of WfG is the hero showing up right at the last possible second, when we've already had a, "Well I guess he's too late and X is going to die" moment, and the hero often steps in to physically block the final blow and start the fight. Arlong?
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Oct 13, 2015 08:26
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The neat thing about One Piece is that it never feels like things are absolutely hopeless without Luffy. Yeah he's always the big drat hero at the end of the arc. But even when he is not around we have characters like Zoro who can pick up the slack. I'm pretty confident that if Zoro was not busy keeping Pica and the Birdcage at bay, he could have went 1 on 1 with Doflamingo.
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Oct 13, 2015 13:38
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I must be reading a different One Piece, because the one I read often does build up a feeling that the crew, Zoro included, are counting on Luffy to finish off the head honcho because it's something only he can do. Even in the last arc, people were literally standing around pushing back a forcefield (okay, bird cage made of wires - same difference) while praying for Luffy to get up and finish off Doflamingo. And Zoro was one of those people. I also don't think Zoro could have taken out Crocodile, Enel, Rob Lucci or Moria as he was at the time those people were being fought. He didn't have the hard counter to Enel that Luffy had for one thing. Even against the others though I never got the feeling that Zoro had the skill set or the raw strength of Luffy necessary to take them down.
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Oct 13, 2015 15:43
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Space-Bird posted:Yeah I know what you mean. One piece certainly is less generically 'anime' looking than other series. I remember knowing people who were turned off by the art style... Which is kind of bonkers, since on a technical level it's probably one of the best weekly manga out there. (The anime on the other hand..... Well... That's why there is a manga thread and an anime thread I suppose) My roommate wont give it a chance because he cant get into the art style and says theres too many episodes. He watches every titty show of the season though!
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Oct 13, 2015 18:05
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tsob posted:I also don't think Zoro could have taken out Crocodile, Enel, Rob Lucci or Moria as he was at the time those people were being fought. He didn't have the hard counter to Enel that Luffy had for one thing. Even against the others though I never got the feeling that Zoro had the skill set or the raw strength of Luffy necessary to take them down. Now I want to see Lucci v Zoro. I can see Zoro win that. And on the other hand how does Luffy handle Mr 1 or Picasa? I'm not at all saying it's impossible but a lot of One Piece is in the matchup. The contrivance is in how Luffy is the one available and with the skillset to fight the boss, not that Luffy's the only punchman who can punchman hard enough to win.
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Oct 13, 2015 18:34
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tsob posted:I must be reading a different One Piece, because the one I read often does build up a feeling that the crew, Zoro included, are counting on Luffy to finish off the head honcho because it's something only he can do. Even in the last arc, people were literally standing around pushing back a forcefield (okay, bird cage made of wires - same difference) while praying for Luffy to get up and finish off Doflamingo. And Zoro was one of those people. I think a big thing with Zoro is that he prioritizes guys with swords over anyone else. However, if Luffy hadn't been so determined to punch Doflamingo then I don't doubt Zoro would have went for him. He was trying to hold back the birdcage to help Luffy out. I'm this case Zoro would have squared up nicely against Dofy since Dofy's attacks have a cutting edge, and he wasn't injured for a change. Most of the villains save for Buggy, Crocodile, and Enel could have been handled by Zoro. Often there are extenuating circumstances that hold Zoro back from fighting them before Luffy can. I'm not sure what you mean by saying Zoro not having the raw strength that Luffy does. At Whiskey Peak they were evenly matched and since then we've been seeing both do incredible feats of strength (like Zoro throwing a whole house or defeating a fishman underwater). Luffy is important in ways that Zoro can't match, but when it comes to fighting I actually get the impression that Zoro backs off to let Luffy have the glory.
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Oct 13, 2015 18:41
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There is also the thing that Zoro is loyal to Luffy. If the captain says he is going to fight someone. He'll back down and support him any way he can. But not only Zoro. Each crew member is capable of stepping up when needed. Sanji saved everyone from Crocodile's prison. Usopp gave Luffy the encouragement he needed to beat Lucci. And of course Zoro standing up to Kuma and taking care of Hody when Luffy wasn't around.
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Oct 13, 2015 18:57
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If Zoro ate even the lamest fruit he'd be straight better than Luffy and he could have totally kicked mingos rear end.
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Oct 13, 2015 18:57
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Usually Luffy calls dibs on the main bad guy at the beginning of the arc. A swordsman always respects dibs.
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Oct 13, 2015 19:00
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Now I want to see Lucci v Zoro. I can see Zoro win that. And on the other hand how does Luffy handle Mr 1 or Picasa? I'm not at all saying it's impossible but a lot of One Piece is in the matchup. The contrivance is in how Luffy is the one available and with the skillset to fight the boss, not that Luffy's the only punchman who can punchman hard enough to win. Mr. 1 would have murdered Luffy horribly, he was as tailor-made for Zoro as Enel was for Luffy. I'm also thinking Zoro probably would have lost to Lucci, the latter was an insane hand-to-hand combat powerhouse and Zoro doesn't have the luxury of a rubber body (which wasn't doing even Luffy much good in his fight against Lucci), not to mention the speed to keep up with him. Like you said, it's all about the skillset and/or opportunity to fight someone, which makes the end of Dressrosa stand out as somewhat less well thought out than all the earlier final battles. Doffy has taken a huge beating whereas Zoro has barely broken a sweat against Pica, they're standing within a confined arena that is getting smaller all the time, and it's either defeat Doffy or everyone dies. I suppose I can begrudgingly accept it as a  moment where he would rather die than killsteal from his captain, but ehhh...
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Oct 13, 2015 19:46
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yeah i really wish doffy had a swordsman or something that zoro could fight, and maybe even a cool power to go along with it. haha, that would have been loving cool... oh well
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Oct 13, 2015 19:49
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