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It makes me kind of wonder how part four would translate if it were redone to take place in the states. I say translate in the sense that clearly a lot of the details around the characters are playing on readers' familiarity with various archetypes. Japanese Josuke and Okuyasu probably don't smoke weed (based on my knowledge of the Japanese weed market) but if they were American it would be weird if they didn't. And to get that tough guy look Josuke would have to wear something distinctly NOT a school uniform. Hm, I'm actually intrigued by the idea of translating visual motifs, I might have to attempt an art feature at some point.
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Oct 9, 2015 17:21
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josuke would probably be wearing a leather jacket and people would make fun of him for looking like he just stepped out of the 50's
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Oct 9, 2015 17:58
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As amusing as that is, wouldn't a pompadour in Japan be more associated with a very early 80s look? He might have to get a bit more disco.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:15
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Xibanya posted:As amusing as that is, wouldn't a pompadour in Japan be more associated with a very early 80s look? He might have to get a bit more disco. Pompadours have a strong connotation with motorcycle gangs in Japan, and hoodlums in general.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:28
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if translating it to an american timeline it probably wouldn't fit on a 1:1 basis but i feel like the prevailing theme would be josuke looking like a hoodlum to some degree. i'd see either a leather jacket or he'd be really into punk music and would wear something covered in a lot of band patches.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:39
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i'd see either a leather jacket or he'd be really into punk music and would wear something covered in a lot of band patches. OK yeah now I'm seeing it. Shitloads of patches. If you wanted to work in the school thing he could wear a punkified letter jacket. And Koichi would wear a polo and khakis because of course.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:43
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Holy poo poo, I just realized Josuke is Japanese Fonzie. He looks tough but has a heart of gold, has an anachronistic fashion, cares a lot about his hair, and can fix things by hitting them.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:44
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American Josuke would have a mohawk.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:47
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You guys are just describing that photo of Hideki Kamiya with his mom.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:52
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Waffleman_ posted:American Josuke would have a mohawk. YES. I can see it now. Mohawk, patches like crazy, and jeans that are ripped to poo poo. And then going around being all nice and Josuke-ing it up.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:53
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okuyasu would wear a hoodie with the sleeves rolled up. maybe some sort of band design on the back. who knows.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:09
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Waffleman_ posted:American Josuke would have a mohawk. GET OUT OF MY HEAD Josuke and Oku are little punk bros 
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Oct 9, 2015 20:41
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Aurain posted:I have a good Part 4 weed styled image but it has a character we haven't met yet so it has to wait. It's good though.
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Oct 10, 2015 10:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK0d6SIkjOM have a brief clip of the josuke + okuyasu combo intro in the new jojo's game, eyes of heaven
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Oct 11, 2015 17:57
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK0d6SIkjOM Eyes of Heaven still looks like a crap game but at least they get some things right.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:10
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 JJBA Chapter 285 Chapter 20 of Diamond is Unbreakable Koichi Hirose’s Echoes II Translation: Invincible Trio  When we last left our heroes, Kobayashi had used his stand power to put a large heavy lock into Koichi’s body. He was trying to guilt Koichi into giving him money; I’m not sure if putting the padlock on his target is the final phase in his sales technique or if it’s done when the target continues to resist after Kobayashi has performed his full standard spiel.  Koichi continues to resist handing over money, claiming to not have any, but Kobayashi can sense his hesitance and calls Koichi out for lying. Despite looking and talking like a predatory rear end in a top hat, (whoa check out that scar on his chin!) Koichi is still operating under the framing of reality that Kobayashi previously set up. While it’s kind of frustrating as a reader to see this (you wanna shake Koichi and say “don’t even listen to this rear end in a top hat!”) this is depressingly realistic.  The lock suddenly gets bigger - looks like its size is correlated to how guilty the victim feels!  Now Koichi is totally helpless. It looks like the lock is so heavy that he couldn’t escape now even if he wanted to.  This here is also classic - Kobayashi moves in with a gesture that’s superficially comforting, telling Koichi that he can help him make this all go away. This sort of thing is also generally a mindfuck when the target isn’t fully cognizant that a con is underway - if the conman/woman is all calm and nice, then the victim often feels like an rear end in a top hat making a fuss. It appears that this is fully Kobayashi’s intention here as he moves in for the close. Kobayashi takes Koichi’s money out of his wallet, proving Koichi a liar. Koichi weakly protests that this was money he was saving to buy new sneakers (and remember these are growing kids we’re talking about here so he probably really does need new shoes.)  Christ, what an rear end in a top hat. By the way, a lot of you may be thinking “I would never get in this situation!” But the best confidence tricks are the ones where you don’t even realize one is taking place. Of course that’s why when we tried to sell ads to some company’s managing director we would do anything we could to arrange things such that the meeting wouldn’t get interrupted, because cons in progress are much more obvious when seen from the outside.  Right on cue, Josuke and Okuyasu arrive! It’s unclear how much they saw, but at the very least they must have seen that supremely dickish move by Kobayashi that just took place.  Okuyasu attempts to pull the lock out of Koichi’s body but it won’t budge. Interesting how it’s Okuyasu who is the first at Koichi’s side trying to mess with the lock.  Kobayashi is shocked that these two guys can also see his stand. Josuke doesn’t even have time to deal with this poo poo. He tells Kobayashi to remove the lock. This reminds me of the first chapter when he gave the assholes every chance in the world to deescalate the situation. As a bit of exposition, Kobayashi mentions that he got his stand after being shot with the magic arrow by Keicho. So I think he’s been doing this con for years - his stand is just the newest tool in his kit.  Araki has been using dark panels in this arc and the previous one to indicate a private moment inside the character’s head. While we don’t get an inner monologue, it’s obvious what Kobayashi is thinking about. This is definitely something he never planned for. He continues to try to complete the con, but you can tell that all these unknown variables popping up are making him nervous. (The speed lines seem to indicate the rise in tension here.) You could ask why he doesn’t just quit now since there are so many unexpected complications, but if a con/salesperson gave up every time they entered uncharted waters they’d go broke, so I wouldn’t even call this a “the balls on this guy!” moment, I’d just say it’s evidence that he’s experienced at what he does. Kobayashi’s new approach is this: he tells Josuke and Okuyasu that he’ll take the lock off of Koichi if they pay up in his stead. We’ve moved from confidence trick to straight-up extortion.  “Oh yeah?” says Okuyasu. “You gonna try to take my money? Do it then, come on!” This is loving hilarious, I’m imagining Okuyasu just sliding to the left with a little “bwoop!” sound effect.  In the midst of the attempted extortion on Okuyasu and Josuke, Kobayashi continues attempting to keep his confidence trick with Koichi running, laying on more guilt. That doesn’t seem like a very smart move. I’m surprised Kobayashi isn’t cutting his losses and turning his full attention to the extortion he’s trying to pull off.  From the shoulder, beyond the wrist, look out evil, it’s my fist!  “H...hey, take it easy, man.” Josuke says looking almost sleepy. (or stoned) Man, Josuke’s been kinda tepid this story arc. I mean I get keeping a cool head, but this kinda makes it seem like he’s not very invested in how his friends are feeling. Let me put it this way - what provoked Okuyasu to punch Kobayashi was Kobayashi continuing to try to gently caress with Koichi. It demonstrates that Kobayashi’s actions upset Okuyasu - in other words, Okuyasu cares. I suppose you could say that Josuke’s indifference shows that he’s sure that nothing bad will happen and that this will all be sorted out, but so far I’ve been getting less “confidence” and more “boredom.” ….maybe Josuke is currently suffering from clinical depression   Okuyasu gets all up in Kobayashi’s grill. “I don’t even need to use THE HAND, I’ll mess your face up with my bare fists!”  Kobayashi takes this opportunity to fall down on purpose.  Kobayashi (intentionally?) smacks his jaw on the curb, knocking loose a tooth.  Jesus, dude, that’s kind of intense just to guilt trip a high schooler. They don’t have THAT much disposable income, you know!  I get it now! Kobayashi’s continuing to needle Koichi after Okuyasu moved in to engage him wasn’t a dumb move - it was a performance for Okuyasu’s benefit to provoke him into physically assaulting him.  Okuyasu tells Kobayashi he ain’t buying it - he saw Kobayashi fall down on purpose. Although look at the sweat on Okuyasu’s face! Well, you know, if I saw that in real life I would be freaked out too. (I scream and hide my face while watching horror movies, as Ziggy Starfucker can attest.) Really anybody would be rattled after seeing that.  Kobayashi screams while oozing blood and other bodily fluids in the most disgusting way. Man this still is pretty intense just to con some high schoolers. Is it well known that Okuyasu has a lot of money saved up? But then again perhaps the guy will extort money by threatening to press charges. Yikes.  OKUYASU!  It looks like it just took the smallest feeling of guilt for Kobayashi to have an opening to stick a lock on Okuyasu (and it looks like this means he can’t just stick a lock on anybody at any time, they have to feel guilty first.) In a way that’s kind of sweet - tough guy Okuyasu feels at least a little bit of guilt for injuries resulting from his actions even when his actions were at least partially justified. In a roundabout way it shows that Okuyasu has a high capacity for empathy. I’m also guessing that he’s not used to punching guys who cry about being punched. All the other guys he’s punched were probably other tough guys who were all stoic and poo poo. In other words, though it may seem obvious anyway, we can say this shows Okuyasu doesn’t like hurting people who can’t take it. It doesn’t mean necessarily that he wouldn’t do it, just that he wouldn’t enjoy it. Hm, so I wonder how guilty he feels about being an accessory to all those murders Keicho committed.  Okuyasu moves in to clobber Kobayashi again, but Kobayashi tells him that while someone has a lock in them, any damage they do to Kobayashi is felt by the person inflicting it instead. This stops Okuyasu cold in his tracks. (Want to point out that for Kobayashi to know this it means that he put a lock in someone who then tried to hit him, aka this isn’t the first time he’s provoked someone to violence!)  However all this fun is cut short when Josuke checks out the scene of Koichi’s alleged crime. Looks like the bag Kobayashi placed in Koichi’s path had a battery-operated toy cat and some fake blood capsules in it. Looks like DIO remains Jojo’s undefeated champion of cat disembowelment!  Josuke then proceeds to heal Kobayashi up so that Okuyasu won’t end up with a court date for assault and battery. (Yanno, while Koichi really did nothing wrong, technically Okuyasu did in fact commit a crime...but since this is a shonen that’s neither here nor there…)  No longer having reasons to feel guilty, Koichi and Okuyasu are freed from their locks! (Hope Kobayashi doesn’t start going on about “emotional damages”!)  “Wh...what...what are you?! What the hell?! Your ability…!” Kobayashi starts to freak out. “D...don’t...don’t come near me!” Really? Josuke’s power isn’t that weird. No weirder than yours, man.  Josuke tells Kobayashi to give back the money and gently caress right off.  Kobayashi sets down the wallet...we get a close up of his hand laying it down with signals to me that he there’s something significant about whatever he’s doing here.  He then takes off screaming as if he were Wile E. Coyote, complete with smoke trail! This is awesome, the S-curve of the trail kind of implies he had to rev up his legs to get the hell out of dodge. When Koichi goes to get his wallet, he finds that Kobayashi just left the corners and took off with the rest of the bills! The remaining bills are large enough to still be legal tender, but the corners are worthless.  AAAAA!! So Kobayashi was only acting freaked out by Josuke’s stand so that if he dropped the wallet and ran it would seem like he did so out of fear of Josuke’s satanic powers or whatever. Yeah, imagine if he handed back the wallet calmly then took off running - that would be pretty suspicious.  This shot from the POV of the wallet is a scream. I’m imagining Dr. Josuke and Dr. Okuyasu in the operating theater performing open-heart surgery. Or maybe Sgt. Josuke and Pvt. Okuyasu in the midst of deactivating a roadside bomb.  Aaaaah yes and once out of view Kobayashi is indeed cool as a cucumber. “That kid Josuke...he better watch himself,” he mutters as he stalks away. I found this chapter pretty amusing because I used to have a job where I used confidence tricks to sell people “editorial space” in special advertising sections in the magazines my company had contracts with. I think a lot of people get the impression that scummy folks like used car salesmen just have a talent for ripping people off, but I know that in my case I went through a training program (I was even given a manual) and the sale, while seeming like a naturally flowing conversation to the “potential client” was actually a very scripted very rehearsed series of steps designed to push certain emotional buttons. None of these sales/con methods are any kind of closely guarded secret, and Kobayashi’s methods in the previous chapter and here are extremely orthodox, so I suspect that this chapter is yet another Jojo element with authentic Araki research behind it. Looks like Josuke is too cool-headed to be made the victim of this type of guy, and the chapter titles suggest that this will continue to be a Koichi-centric arc, so I suspect that Koichi will run into Kobayashi again in a setting where there's no way Josuke can come help him out. Xibanya fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 21:54
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Xibanya posted:
This was the perfect moment for a "Talk to The Hand" joke. Man, I forgot Kobayashi was a total tool. He's really good at scamming, though.
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Oct 11, 2015 22:17
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:This was the perfect moment for a "Talk to The Hand" joke. No. 
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Oct 11, 2015 22:55
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Kobayashi's great because he's the ultimate small fry. He's been granted life-changing, in many ways totally broken abilities which he uses to...extort money from kids. I mean yeah, okay, presumably other, richer passersby as well, but still. I agree with Xibanya that he's probably been running cons since before he developed a stand, but I find it kinda telling in a characterization sorta way that his decision in light of his newfound powers was to just keep doing what he was already doing. He doesn't really think beyond the box he's already constructed for himself as a person. Rather than thinking bigger, he just thinks more efficiently. I also kinda like his design. It's just so obviously greasy and scrummy, I dunno, I just laugh. In a good way, that is. Before he even says a word you already know he's trouble. In Part 3 Araki would occasionally try to keep the stand user's identity a secret, but by the end of it I definitely think he learned the fights were stronger when the heroes had a good bad guy to bounce off of, and Part 4 wastes very little time telling you who chief chump is in any given battle. Kobayashi is also interesting in that he's the first true "Random encounter" of Part 4 (classifying Angelo and the Nijimura Brothers as battles with greater plot relevance), which means he sets the stage for what we can expect from later stand fights much in the same way as Gray Fly and Captain Tennille from Part 3. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 23:15
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Xibanya posted:No.  Bad Seafood posted:Kobayashi's great because he's the ultimate small fry. He's been granted life-changing, in many ways totally broken abilities which he uses to...extort money from kids. I mean yeah, okay, presumably other, richer passersby as well, but still. I agree with Xibanya that he's probably been running cons since before he developed a stand, but I find it kinda telling in a characterization sorta way that his decision in light of his newfound powers was to just keep doing what he was already doing. This is one of those instances of Araki writing personality powers really well. DIO is a megalomanic who wants to take over the world, so his Stand power gives him the ability to control the flow of time at will, making him essentially untouchable. Kobayashi, on the other hand, just has a Stand that preys on people's guilt. Not really good in a fight, but it makes sense given that he's not trying to pick a fight. He's just playing on people's emotions to get what he wants. It's a small Stand for a small man.
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Oct 11, 2015 23:41
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It's a little hard to be sure with the way he looks in those panels but I don't think Josuke is detached necessarily; he and Okuyasu both are quite protective of Koichi in ways we haven't seen yet but I think Josuke is attempting to do something that neither Koichi nor Okuyasu are the best at when immediately confronted by a weird situation: cooly evaluating a situation to know more before acting. Okuyasu jumped in right off the bat without thinking/caring which says a lot about him ( ), though. I like Kobayashi's "it's not good to lie" panel where he's made to seem more physically intimidating than he has been. edit: rather than double post, here: I like the way the color panels show off the absurdity of that Stand. I enjoy the Lock a lot, pulling in a psychological element with a Stand is neat.   
Okuyasu Nijimura fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 00:47
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I just figured surely there will be a more dramatic place to use that line. Like a chapter where Okuyasu doesn't get chumped by a greasy rear end in a top hat. Don't let me being a goony jerk stop you from cracking jokes!
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Oct 12, 2015 01:53
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Josuke's low motor in these chapters might be to demonstrate what Okuyasu brings to the dynamic. Josuke getting more heated in this scenario wouldn't be wildly out of character, but he wouldn't slug someone like that unless someone hit a trigger point. So instead, Okuyasu handles being aggressive and Josuke gets an opportunity to find another way. Araki's probably just exaggerating these traits to get all that across, but I like to think the two have grown close enough to naturally play off of each other.
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Oct 12, 2015 02:20
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:but I like to think the two have grown close enough to naturally play off of each other. Yup. It spares Araki of the chore of doing a lot more to establish their friendship as something already very solid; it goes from enemies to the "heavy poo poo" thing Josuke says about having to live near him/go to school with him to Josuke just letting his friend do his thing first while he stands back and watches and figures out what's really going on. They're already comfortable enough with one another to work really well as a duo, it's just telegraphed in this way instead of a bunch of side stories showing them establishing that relationship. Which is a pity because I'll never get tired of bro moments with those guys and want more, but we'll still get plenty. DiU has some great quick moments here and there with the two of them that are always adorable. Oh! Also! Xibanya's commentary about how this fight must be a little different for Okuyasu is interesting to me. He certainly goes from 0 to 100 quickly when someone tries to pull poo poo but for all the posturing he's clearly a giant softie. The guy will cry at the drop of a hat. I think he's very much used to being the sidekick; Keicho probably did most of the escalating before and maybe Oku would just bat cleanup or something but I'm not totally convinced that he has the guts to go through with being a legitimate bully without remorse regardless of what he's set up as. Don't take that to mean that he can't really bust on people; but when he does so, it's because someone's being threatened, not because he just wants to be a prick.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:23
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it's 100% likely that okuyasu went from calm to just punching the poo poo out of a dude because he was well aware that it wouldn't be enough to actually gently caress him up and koichi's overall well-being is on the line. that, and, if things got weird then josuke could patch someone up. he's still gonna feel kinda guilty about doing it, but he had a pretty legit reason for moving to physical violence. at least as far as the world of jojo's bizarre adventure is concerned. josuke is most likely just assessing the situation and trying not to immediately jump to some sort of action that he might regret later. it also gives the scene the ability to move along at a pretty logical pace. josuke being free let him go investigate the cat and fix kobayashi's tooth, which solved this encounter in a neat and tidy fashion. if he'd been locked down then things might have been a little more...interesting. and yeah, as previously said, kobayashi is another good example of araki giving characters actual screentime from the beginning. there's no doubts as to what kind of guy kobayashi is from just a single chapter.
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Oct 12, 2015 06:27
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I think it's a good way to highlight the differences between the two most recent JoJo's too because in Part 3, Polnareff would definitely be the one in Koichi's position and Jotaro would probably have gone and punched Kobayashi, leaving Kakyoin, Avdol or most likely Joseph to figure out the scam.
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Oct 12, 2015 08:21
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Up to Superfly now and it's fun how many of the fights in part 4 are analogous to real life situations, something that was sorta absent in the first three parts. Of course, the situations then immediately get escalated to JoJo proportions with no exception, but it's the making you think that counts. Also, everything about Stray Cat is cool & good.
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Oct 12, 2015 08:38
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Bad news: people are reporting that David are working on a Monster Hunter anime in 2016.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:27
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SEAFOOD, THIS THREAD TOO?!
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Oct 14, 2015 18:29
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Kurtofan posted:Bad news: people are reporting that David are working on a Monster Hunter anime in 2016. I'm okay with those bad news. As long as DIU happens eventually, I can wait.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:47
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As long as David keeps getting money from video game anime adaptions to fund JoJo then I am okay with that.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:39
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Moltrey posted:As long as David keeps getting money from video game anime adaptions to fund JoJo then I am okay with that. That's literally not how it works at all.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:43
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Waffleman_ posted:That's literally not how it works at all.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:48
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I wouldn't have expected a Part 4 adaptation sooner than 2017 to be honest. Late 2016 at best.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:50
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As long as Part 4 happens, I can wait. It's the not knowing that kills. If if it doesn't happen, I'll probably finally learn how to draw, animate, get good and die of old age before I finish the first episode. e: Stumbled across this today, which I would assume was illustrated by Araki around the time he was drawing the arc Xibanya's up to. *Modsnip, check other thread.* Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 09:26
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Koichi is really tiny
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Oct 15, 2015 17:29
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Hey guys, just popping in to say I haven't forgotten about the Let's Read, it's that Slam Fighter II is going to be one of the games featured at the Playcrafting expo next week so I've been spending all my waking hours working on completing a new build on time. So your regularly scheduled Let's Read will resume in a few days!
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Oct 18, 2015 01:22
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 Good luck!!!
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Oct 18, 2015 03:06
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Bad Seafood posted:(COMING I know this is old but if you don't do this, I'd definitely be happy to, considering I've been feeling the same thing while rereading Phantom Blood Xibanya posted:Hey guys, just popping in to say I haven't forgotten about the Let's Read, it's that Slam Fighter II is going to be one of the games featured at the Playcrafting expo next week so I've been spending all my waking hours working on completing a new build on time. So your regularly scheduled Let's Read will resume in a few days! Good luck! I've been enjoying the Let's Read so far but we can wait as long as it takes!
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Oct 18, 2015 11:18
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BaDandy posted:I know this is old but if you don't do this, I'd definitely be happy to, considering I've been feeling the same thing while rereading Phantom Blood Why don't you both do it and battle to the death over who has the best Part 1 effortpost
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Oct 19, 2015 03:22
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