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Kerosene19 posted:Here is a 12” jet fuel line, normal operating pressure is 150 PSI. It was struck by an excavator. Can you tell me how you did the X-ray? I have done some reading up on NDT and from what I (think I) understand is that the radioactive source has to be in the center of the pipe so the rays are evenly spread.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:38
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Rope Access. If you don't know what it is, then it looks like the very definition of OSHA!          Anyway, I might just be nuts, but I have been thinking about taking a training course and getting certified to do just that. It looks like it would be a blast AND it would piss off my mom! Believe it or not (most of you are probably in the Not category) but its actually quite safe if your not a idiot. IndianaZoidberg fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 03:57
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IndianaZoidberg posted:its actually quite safe if your not a idiot. Not looking good for you then.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:44
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that was quick
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Oct 15, 2015 13:03
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I did high rise window washing in Baltimore using ropes for a year or so. It is a blast in the summer, but in the early spring and late fall it sucked royally.
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Oct 15, 2015 13:06
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Can you tell me how you did the X-ray? I have done some reading up on NDT and from what I (think I) understand is that the radioactive source has to be in the center of the pipe so the rays are evenly spread.
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Oct 15, 2015 14:18
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zedprime posted:Not an expert by any means but that sounds like a quality test for manufacturing. Field testing is usually taking a profile of a given "slice" you are interested in, such as a weld in construction or gouge, corrosion, or other visual telltale for reliability like this case, and comparing the exposure to what you expect should be there in density and amount for the given geometry. Pretty much, it's just like a regular X-ray, only with a lot more energy in the exposure to penetrate the steel pipe. Find a good angle, take some pictures, compare it to the standard images, profit.
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Oct 15, 2015 14:25
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Rope Access. If you don't know what it is, then it looks like the very definition of OSHA! Looks like fun on a bun! My hands would probably be a bit too sweaty for real work to be done, but that seriously looks like a fun job.
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Oct 15, 2015 15:42
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Oct 15, 2015 18:23
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I did high rise window washing in Baltimore using ropes for a year or so. It is a blast in the summer, but in the early spring and late fall it sucked royally. Was it just too cold/windy when you got up extremely high during the spring/fall?
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Oct 15, 2015 20:07
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BexGu posted:Was it just too cold/windy when you got up extremely high during the spring/fall? Exactly.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:25
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Pipe x-raying is serious stuff. They have nuclear sources that are dangerously hot. Fun at work - big circuit breakers have control power. Now the little breakers in your panel at home are spring-loaded, so if you have a short circuit or overload they will trip. With a big circuit breaker (generally medium and high voltage) you need external power to open and close the breaker. You may have an arrangement with a couple of sets of fuses, like one for the close circuit, another for the open circuit, and for some oddball breakers a power system for racking the breaker in and out (actually removing the big circuit breaker.) There are big solenoids that open and close the breaker, and they make a loud BANG when they operate. What's really fun is if you lose that control power while breakers are closed. That means that even if there's a dangerous situation (overload or fault), the breakers will not open. Some of the compartments holding the circuit breakers have a hole in the bottom about 1" in diameter. You can take a wooden broom handle, shove it in the hole, and that will mechanically trip the breaker. Workers hate doing that and it's a last-ditch thing, but I've seen it done. (Newer breakers like this AMVAC line have a stored power system where if control power is lost, the breaker will stay in place or trip after a short time delay.) Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 23:41
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BexGu posted:Was it just too cold/windy when you got up extremely high during the spring/fall? I'm just in a manlift, but trying to get this done in October is retarded.  You just sort of get used to the "sea legs" feeling of a slow rock back and forth. 
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Oct 16, 2015 00:19
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ooh ooh, x-ray talk. I used to do NDI in the Air Force, then did pipe-weld and concrete x-rays (plus other NDT, but almost entirely radiography) for a while civilian-side while I went to college. I've got a few OSHA stories. Fairly minor compared to a lot of stuff posted here, but still. One of the most OSHA stories I've got is when we were doing some concrete shots at some new construction in DT Seattle (one of the Seahawks lives in that building now). Long story short, we had both our Ir-192 and Co-60 cameras because the areas we were shooting varied in thickness from 4-8" in some spots, to 10-12" in others. The setup is important to this story, so I MSPainted my best attempt at a diagram:  That's two floors of a building. On the top floor, L-R, you have: Radioactive source for taking the gamma-ray shot (in this case holding a cobalt-60 source) sitting on top of a bucket, to get the proper distance so the shot is sharp and not distorted, and the gigantic loving camera that we lug the source in. Fun fact--if I recall correctly, and it's been nearly 10 years so feel free to correct me, but that Co-60 source is a 3mm radius cylinder, and the camera holding it is a 300-pound beast consisting of layers of lead, tungsten, depleted uranium, and other heavy shielding to reduce the radiation to safe levels for transport. That's also important. On the bottom floor, I've drawn the film setup, plus the model of survey meter we used. We would clip the film onto a literal giant clipboard that was fastened on the end of a telescoping pole. We'd then do whatever finagling necessary to get that film nice and snug against the bottom of the concrete, right under the shot. On this night, I was placing/developing film. After film's placed, the film placer clears the area, radios the radiographer to take the shot, and they crank the source out of the camera to start the exposure. After the exposure is done (which can take anywhere from a few minutes, to several hours, depending on the concrete thickness and other factors), the exposed film is switched out for fresh, and you move to the next shot. During the entire process, the person placing film must have the survey meter on them 100% of the time, and there is to be no live shots without both radiographers on site--one to watch the top floor, one to watch the bottom floor, to make sure no dumbasses wander through. But these were loooooong shots, we had a lot of them to do, and it had already been a long night. Midway through the night, I went to process the film for the shots we'd already done, because we were a few shots away from moving to another section of the building, and if there were shots that we had to retake, we'd rather retake them then than later. We'd been partnered for a while, and when this happened he'd go smoke and chill for a bit, because there was no point in continuing to shoot. So I grabbed all the exposed film, and crucially, I left the survey meter behind while I ran down to the truck to process and interpret the film. This took about 20-30 minutes. When I got back, the next shot's film had been set up against the ceiling, and I was like "Oh cool! Easy peasy." I sauntered casually over to grab my survey meter, which was directly under the film, and radioed my partner that he was clear to take the next shot once I cleared the area. Him: We're already cranked out, dude. Me:  I grabbed the survey meter and the thing was loving pegged. I don't think I'll ever sprint faster than I did in that moment when I got the gently caress out of that room and put about 3-4 concrete walls between me and the shot. I remember having trouble reading my pocket dosimeter before I realized the little hair (or whatever) was completely off the scale. In the single most OSHA.jpg move of the night, I quietly reset it and finished the night off, figuring that if I was in any real trouble, I'd get notified by whatever organization evaluated our TLDs. I never heard anything, so presumably I'm fine. Plus time I was exposed was pretty short so I'm not too worried. But yeah I bitched my partner out a little over the radio once I'd calmed down. I mean, yeah I def hosed up by leaving my survey meter behind, but he wasn't supposed to be cranked out anyway... so we were both idiots. Oh! There was also the time that I was seconds away from passing out and asphyxiating to death in a confined space in some billionaire's yacht. At 2am, when the only people in the building were myself, my partner, and the construction foreman (or whatever he was called). And I was the only one in the yacht, in the deepest, hardest-to-reach area, between the lowest deck and the hull. When my vision started to blur around the edges and tunnel up, I was lucky enough to recognize what it meant, and just barely managed to crawl back through 2 loving stringers and poke my head back above deck to gasp some air for a minute until my vision and thinking returned to normal. I became aware that my partner had been calling for me on the radio, I dunno how long but probably just a few times or something. When I finally replied, he said he was on his way. It took him about 3-4 minutes to navigate the construction as quickly as he could and reach me--the only way to get on the yacht at that point was on the top deck at the stern of the ship, and I was beneath the bottom deck at the bow, between the floor and the outer hull. It was just enough room for me to crouch, and I dunno the diameter of the stringer holes I was crawling through, but I had to superman them, one arm in front, one arm pressed behind me, lots of wriggling. PLUS holding onto film, flashlight, radio, tape, and a little device we use to make sure our shots are aligned with the film. When my vision started dimming I literally threw the radio back underneath where the hatch was, dropped everything, and squeezed back as fast as I could--I knew that if I took any time to radio the situation first, I might not make it--there was little chance anyone could get to me before I'd be unconscious and maybe permanently hosed from O2 deprivation, and there was zero chance that they'd be able to pull me through those two tiny holes before I died. Plus anyone trying to do that might die or get hurt, themselves. Plus there was no oxygen or anything that would have helped anywhere around. Last I heard, the foreman got his rear end reamed to hell and back for allowing that to happen--both from my partner, and from his boss. No clue what happened after that  And to end on a note that doesn't involve potential grievous harm to myself, the funnest non-radiography thing I did was UT inspection on drain pipes (or whatever the hell they're actually called; they're these loving huge pipes that drain water or something, I don't remember) at Mud Mountain Dam. It was cold and dirty and it took hours to drive out there and back, but I got to see a dam from the inside, ensured the integrity of a structure that holds back several gallons of water, and the area was fuckin beautiful to boot. Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:14
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:It was cold and dirty and it took hours to drive out there and back, but I got to see a dam from the inside, ensured the integrity of a structure that holds back several gallons of water, and the area was fuckin beautiful to boot. sounds like quite the dam
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Oct 16, 2015 01:22
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Hot Karl Marx posted:sounds like quite the dam I like understatement. They can't all be winners tho haha  The area's pretty dam cool though.  
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Oct 16, 2015 01:29
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I grabbed the survey meter and the thing was loving pegged. I don't think I'll ever sprint faster than I did in that moment when I got the gently caress out of that room and put about 3-4 concrete walls between me and the shot. I remember having trouble reading my pocket dosimeter before I realized the little hair (or whatever) was completely off the scale. In the single most OSHA.jpg move of the night, I quietly reset it and finished the night off, figuring that if I was in any real trouble, I'd get notified by whatever organization evaluated our TLDs. I never heard anything, so presumably I'm fine. Plus time I was exposed was pretty short so I'm not too worried. Reminds me of this radio thing called "Three Mile Island: Counting the Costs". They had to send a worker to the "hot chemistry lab" that had a pipe connected to the reactor core that they could take a water sample from. He got suited up, and took a sample of this nasty frothy water from the reactor, now laced with hot particles. Later he was hosed down and was changing clothes, when he sat down in the locker room near a meter, and it also pegged. I don't know what exactly went wrong but he was badly contaminated. He had to scrub down for a couple of hours, I mean scrubbing even when your skin starts to bleed, to get decontaminated. Also relevant: Silkwood Shower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Ec20v7wX8 Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:30
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ahhhhhh goddamn am I glad I never had to gently caress with alphas or betas, I worked strictly with gamma and x-rays. Baby poo poo compared to dealing with decon n poo poo
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Oct 16, 2015 01:34
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yeah I like being sent up north (in the summer!) for my job, way less traffic and it really is gorgeous in the middle of ontario (that's north for me). It's really pretty this time of year
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Oct 16, 2015 01:39
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We had exit scanners where I worked, to monitor dust sources of radiation getting out. If you can't pass the hand and foot scan, you graduate to a health physics tech giving you a body sweep with a Geiger counter. Thats a rare enough occurence and its usually clothing that ended up picking something up in the locker room and you got a Tyvek of shame to drive home in. If it ends up being skin contamination, you got a bar of some caustic rear end soap and got told to hit the shower. That's a lot of set up for the funny bit, which is health physics used the policy as a bit of a Santa Clause guilt maneuver. Since they framed it as "you better keep up with washing your hands during the day so you don't make your dick hot and have to scrub your junk with the worst soap imaginable."
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Oct 16, 2015 04:13
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Three-Phase posted:Fun at work - big circuit breakers have control power. Now the little breakers in your panel at home are spring-loaded, so if you have a short circuit or overload they will trip. With a big circuit breaker (generally medium and high voltage) you need external power to open and close the breaker. You may have an arrangement with a couple of sets of fuses, like one for the close circuit, another for the open circuit, and for some oddball breakers a power system for racking the breaker in and out (actually removing the big circuit breaker.) There are big solenoids that open and close the breaker, and they make a loud BANG when they operate. I have been doing a lot of work recently on 33KV and 66KV ACCB's (Alternating Current Circuit Breakers), modifying the protection on them - notably Pilot Wire Protection between substations. Pilot Wire works by monitoring the current on both ends of a High Voltage feeder via Current Transformers and use a fibre optic connection between substations. Two relays "talk" to each other to compare their values and operate the ACCB on set parameters. As you said the ACCB's rely on a separate 120v DC supply to supply the control circuits - typically; Spring Charging Motor, Closing Circuit, Tripping Circuit 1, Tripping Circuit 2, SCADA circuit. each circuit is individually fused. Most newer ACCB's have more than one trip coil as a backup if the first one fails. The work I have been doing has also added a MTA (Multiple Trip Automatic) relay which is a relay that pick up and trips multiple ACCB's within substation - essentially tripping out all possible sources of supply to that ACCB. So in a scenario that a ACCB loses control power and remains closed (Substation B), power will still flow through it nicely - sends an alarm to the operating centre saying control power is lost. If a fault situation occurs, earth fault for example (fallen wire), a command to trip out the feed comes from Substation A to Substation B. The ACCB at Substation A will trip fine - however Substation B can not trip and is still technically feeding a fault.After a predetermined time if the ACCB at Substation B still fails to trip, the MTA is activated and trips all the ACCB's inside Substation B that supplies power to the faulty ACCB. I have been apart of upgrading the protection in about 13 consecutive substations, replacing electromechanical relays to electronic. Testing is very stringent and the most satisfying one to witness is to remove a tripping supply from a ACCB and simulate a fault (MTA test). Listening to 7 33KV ACCB's all go BANG at the same time is fun. So thankfully, not broomstick is required.
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Oct 16, 2015 11:31
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found this on my grandma's car battery that is a key with the toothy bit snapped off 
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Oct 16, 2015 15:58
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Eh it probably conducts better than that screw and bolt.
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Oct 16, 2015 17:10
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:ooh ooh, x-ray talk. I used to do NDI in the Air Force, then did pipe-weld and concrete x-rays (plus other NDT, but almost entirely radiography) for a while civilian-side while I went to college. I've got a few OSHA stories. Fairly minor compared to a lot of stuff posted here, but still. The Ir-192 ones are spooky poo poo. There's like almost a half-dozen orphan source incidents where the Ir-192 source breaks off and gets lost and some poor dude finds it and sticks it in his pocket. http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1101_web.pdf quote:A serious radiological accident occurred in Peru in February 1999 when a welder picked up an I92lr industrial radiography source and put it in his pocket for several hours. This resulted in his receiving a high radiation dose that necessitated the amputation of one leg. His wife and children were also exposed, but to a much lesser extent. At the time of the incident, the source contained 1.4 terabecquerels of Ir-192. Guy took a 15 Gray dose to his femur, 25-30 Grays to his sciatic nerve. The report's fascinating, but also chock full of NMS medical imagery of massive tissue necrosis. http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1985/in85057.html quote:The accident originated at a fossil-fueled power plant under construction in Mohammedia, Morocco, where iridium-192 sources were being used to radiograph welds. In March 1984, one of these sources, that contained approximately 30 curies of iridium-192 at the time, apparently became disconnected from the drive cable and was not properly returned to its shielded container. Subsequently, the guide tube was disconnected from the camera and the source eventually dropped to the ground, where a passing laborer noticed the tiny metal cylinder and took it home. Although it is not clearly known if the problem originated from a disconnect between the source pigtail and drive cable or if a break occurred between the pigtail and source, there are indications that the latter may have occurred. http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1123_scr.pdf quote:On 24 July 1996 a serious accident occurred at the Gilan combined cycle fossil fuel power plant in the Islamic Republic of Iran, when a worker who was moving thermal insulation materials around the plant noticed a shiny, pencil sized metal object lying in a trench and put it in his pocket. He was unaware that the metal object was an unshielded 185 GBq 192Ir source used for industrial radiography. This report compiles information about the medical and other aspects of the accident. Co-60's also fun, there have been a bunch of incidents at food or medical irradiation facilities where the workers take special pains to deactivate every single safety precaution in order to check something out and end up exposing themselves to the full unshielded fury of a petabecquerel-level cobalt-60 source and annihilate their bone marrow inside of about a minute. http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub847_web.pdf http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub925_web.pdf http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1010_web.pdf The last one there's probably the worst in terms of what trouble the guy had to go through to irradiate himself. There was even a pit with a section of movable floor, that moves to reveal the pit whenever the source is not in a safe position, and the key that you insert to move the floor to cover the pit so you can enter is the same one that you use in the master control panel to activate the source, so you can't do both things at the same time; either the source is operating and you'd need to get over the pit to enter the irradiation zone, or you have the key to move the floor over the pit in which case the source is in a safe position. There's also a pressure plate that, if you step on it, the source is automatically lowered to a safe position if it's not already there. None of this stopped the operator, a guy with an actual engineering degree and not some third-world peasant, from giving himself an 11-gray whole-body dose (with local doses up to 30 gray). Reading the clinical course of his treatment, it's amazing that they managed to keep him alive for 113 days; his treatment included massive doses of haemopoietic growth factors to restore his bone marrow and repeated blood transfusions. These reports typically have a section entitled "Post-mortem analysis." Phanatic fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 17:37
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You mean 113 days. Which is even more  , what horrible way to die.
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Oct 16, 2015 17:44
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Right, that's a new rule for me: do not pick up any small metal cylinders ever
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Oct 16, 2015 17:53
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simplefish posted:Right, that's a new rule for me: do not pick up any small metal cylinders ever And also get a geiger counter or dose meter and carry that at all times.
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Oct 16, 2015 17:55
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Why is everyone's instinct to seeing a metal cylinder to put it in their pocket and take it home??
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Oct 16, 2015 17:56
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Baronjutter posted:Why is everyone's instinct to seeing a metal cylinder to put it in their pocket and take it home?? Neat poo poo? I've pocketed all kinds of neat little things at work, mostly cool looking rocks but a few old bolts or nuts or whatever too.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:01
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Baronjutter posted:Why is everyone's instinct to seeing a metal cylinder to put it in their pocket and take it home?? For me it would be to work out what it was and what it's made of.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:02
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NJ has had some interesting exposure issues, including one where the owner disabled the interlock system. Parsippany, New Jersey In June 1974, William McKimm, the radiation director at an Isomedix cobalt-60 facility, was exposed to a near-fatal dose of 400 rems while irradiating medical supplies. McKimm was critically injured and hospitalized for a month. Two years later, a fire near the cobalt storage pool released chemicals into the pool that caused the cobalt rods to corrode and leak. Radioactive water was then flushed down the toilet into the public sewer system. Eventually, concrete around the cobalt-60 pool, as well as the toilet and bathroom plumbing, was found to be radioactive and taken to a nuclear waste dump. The amount of radiation released into the public sewer system was never determined. Rockaway, New Jersey In 1977, Michael Pierson was exposed to a near-fatal dose of 150-300 rems at a Radiation Technology facility when a system designed to protect workers from radioactive cobalt-60 failed. In 1986, the NRC cited company executives for intentionally disabling the system. In 1988 -- after more than 30 NRC violations, including one for throwing out radioactive garbage with the trash -- company president Martin Welt and nuclear engineer William Jouris were charged in federal court with 11 counts of conspiracy to defraud the NRC, making false statements and violating the Atomic Energy Act. Welt, who threatened to fire workers who didn't lie to NRC investigators, was also charged with obstruction of justice. Both men were convicted. Jouris was sentenced to probation; Welt was sentenced to two years in prison, placed on three years probation and fined $50,000.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:06
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Giant scaffolding collapse in Houston today. I guess when one section fails it all fails. The video is pretty amazing for just how much collapsed scaffolding there is. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/us/houston-scaffolding-collapse/index.html
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Oct 16, 2015 19:10
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KoRMaK posted:And also get a geiger counter or dose meter and carry that at all times. Your smartphone and a piece of black electrical tape can make a decent gieger counter. Worried about your testicles being cooked and your bone marrow destroyed? There's an App for that!.
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Oct 16, 2015 19:24
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Phanatic posted:http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1010_web.pdf Even as jaded as I am about people's determination to circumvent safety features, jesus loving CHRIST. The worst I ever saw myself was one of those jury-rigged caps that you screw onto the interlock port. But for gently caress'S SAKE  When you're dealing with Co-60, I'd be super glad for all of those safeguards, no matter how rushed I was. Look at all that poo poo you'd have to bypass, think of all the effort and thought you'd have to put into being a lazy, dangerous gently caress.  I actually appreciate the thought put into that--a drop-out floor is pretty genius, since only the dumbest of the dumb would try to circumvent it. But there's always one loving dumbass:  mmm yeah raise those arms up, make sure you get cooked all over, nice and even. Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 19:31
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So uh, how careful should i be with this bottle of 12 % hf acid i use for work??
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Oct 16, 2015 19:47
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OhsH posted:So uh, how careful should i be with this bottle of 12 % hf acid i use for work?? If you have to ask this thread, more careful than you are, probably.
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Oct 16, 2015 19:51
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VectorSigma posted:If you have to ask this thread, more careful than you are, probably. Yeah im probably going to pay more attentiom to it now :v It also helps when i know that what im using actually has hf before i get a year into this
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Oct 16, 2015 19:52
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OhsH posted:So uh, how careful should i be with this bottle of 12 % hf acid i use for work??
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Oct 16, 2015 19:54
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OhsH posted:So uh, how careful should i be with this bottle of 12 % hf acid i use for work?? 12% is pretty strong so don't try to chug it all at once, and make sure you've got some food in your stomach.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:05
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OhsH posted:So uh, how careful should i be with this bottle of 12 % hf acid i use for work?? if your employer has not given you any education on the dangers of HF, you should probably move on. Just sayin'.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:15
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