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Just buy forbidden desert for $20
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Oct 18, 2015 21:57
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I feel like I'm getting some conflicting information in here.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:19
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Betrayal is genuinely a bad game, but it often gets a pass in the overall boardgame community because it's relatively old and has a large nostalgic factor. It suffers from many of the same faults that the traditional boardgames suffer from; mainly that your decisions don't really matter and you have to sit and watch as one player wins. It's also a (minimum) 3+ player game and isn't co-operative, but instead 1 vs the rest. Rutibex is an outlier in the thread, he generally recommends Talisman and Munchkin, which are both games where players have almost no input, take a very long time to play and exhaust goodwill rapidly. These games are widely seen as being similar to the old-style of boardgames like Monopoly and Chutes and Ladders, i.e. irredeemable outside of just spending time with other people. It's his gimmick; don't take it as a legit recommendation. Pandemic is a solid modern game that fits your criteria; it's easy to get in to, simple to play and co-operative, and the theme is fighting off world-threatening diseases. It's a good way to get in to modern games and works well as a gateway game. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:25
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Crackbone posted:Wrong. I've taught Eldritch between 15 and 20 times, often to people who'd played boardgames a bit but not much - nothing more complex than, say, Dominion or 7 wonders. The majority of them picked it up really quickly. The complexity isn't the hard part of the game assuming people are interested in learning and actually listen to rules explanation, the length is.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:26
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Forbidden desert is by the same designer as Pandemic, but it's got better components, takes less table space, and manages to avoid some of the pitfalls of Pandemic. It plays up to 5 out of the box and it's only $20. I'd say go for that over Pandemic. Don't listen to Rutibex.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:26
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The Supreme Court posted:Rutibex is an outlier in the thread, he generally recommends Talisman and Munchkin, which are both games where players have almost no input, take a very long time to play and exhaust goodwill rapidly. How dare you, I wouldn't recommend Munchkin to my worst enemy. Don't put it in the same sentence as beloved boardgaming classic Talisman.  Betrayal is a great horror game to just chill out and have some fun with. No pressure like Pandemic and Forbidden Desert. Its a chill game for cool people that like to relax and have a good time.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:30
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If I wanted to chill and have a good time I would do something that doesn't loving suck.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:34
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Betrayal at House on the Hill (and Cosmic Encounter) have the same problems making people relax as Monopoly; the inherent unfairness means someone's going to get shafted and have a crap time, and the game pretending it's fair makes that a perfect way to start arguments. Rutibex posted:How dare you, I wouldn't recommend Munchkin to my worst enemy. Don't put it in the same sentence as beloved boardgaming classic Talisman. Ha, I got confused, sorry. To be fair, they're both as bad as each other. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:35
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The Supreme Court posted:Ha, I got confused, sorry. To be fair, they're both as bad as each other. Talisman is an order of magnitude more attractive than Munchkin. But otherwise, yeah.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:39
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As much as I hate to agree with Rutibex, my experience with Betrayal has been that people that aren't really into the heavier board games can still figure it out and generally enjoy it, so it makes a decent gateway game. I don't really like playing it myself anymore, but it is probably the single biggest reason I got into board games as much as I have. To be fair, though, this was a decade or more ago so there's much better options now. Still, if you already have it or can get it for cheap it's not a terrible option until you can get people to play actually good games.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:40
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A friend of mine got Betrayal and forced it on normies and now I can't bring anything to that group of friends because they had an awful experience and are terrified of board games. Thanks, Betrayal!
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Oct 18, 2015 22:47
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Assuming I'm very familiar with the typical pitfalls of deckbuilders, what can you guys tell me about the Resident Evil deckbuilder?
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Oct 18, 2015 22:49
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Toshimo posted:Assuming I'm very familiar with the typical pitfalls of deckbuilders, what can you guys tell me about the Resident Evil deckbuilder?
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Oct 18, 2015 22:52
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Tekopo posted:brokenloose.txt I'M SORRY! I DIDN'T MEAN IT!
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Oct 18, 2015 22:54
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It's a joke, don't worry: he wrote a whole rant about how that game was one of the worst deck builders he ever played, which I find hard to believe since the DC deck builder exists.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:56
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Toshimo posted:Assuming I'm very familiar with the typical pitfalls of deckbuilders, what can you guys tell me about the Resident Evil deckbuilder? A pile of unfun garbage with just the WORST graphic design and art. I'd give more details but I played it like three years ago and I don't remember much else.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:57
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Anyone have some opinions on Rococo? I'm thinking about getting it.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:58
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Luckily for you, the DC deckbuilder is miles better than the Penny Arcade deckbuilder so Cryptozoic can just have an endless disappointment spiral.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:58
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Andarel posted:I've taught Eldritch between 15 and 20 times, often to people who'd played boardgames a bit but not much - nothing more complex than, say, Dominion or 7 wonders. The majority of them picked it up really quickly. Well, the length and the frustrating randomness.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:01
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Really? DC deck builder is my go-to example of a deck builder that completely misunderstands what the loving point of deck builders is in the first place and has some of the worst design decisions ever made by anyone ever. I hate it almost as much as I hate machi koro with expansion.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:02
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I'm actually shamefully tempted to buy the DC deckbuilder because I have a bunch of friends that I'd like to get into deckbuilders some more so I can transition them to Dominion, and despite being horribly, shittily unbalanced, DC is easy to pick up, teaches a lot of the basics of deckbuilding skills which are transferable to better game, and people like to do it because they like playing as a superhero. It's also mercifully short.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:03
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Toshimo posted:I'm actually shamefully tempted to buy the DC deckbuilder because I have a bunch of friends that I'd like to get into deckbuilders some more so I can transition them to Dominion, and despite being horribly, shittily unbalanced, DC is easy to pick up, teaches a lot of the basics of deckbuilding skills which are transferable to better game, and people like to do it because they like playing as a superhero. It's also mercifully short. just get marvel legendary man
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Oct 18, 2015 23:04
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Tekopo posted:Really? DC deck builder is my go-to example of a deck builder that completely misunderstands what the loving point of deck builders is in the first place and has some of the worst design decisions ever made by anyone ever. Can you go into more detail about it?
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Oct 18, 2015 23:06
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Kai Tave posted:Well, the length and the frustrating randomness. Newer gamers will generally have a pretty decent tolerance for frustrating randomness - see Betrayal at House on the Hill, Cosmic Encounter, all that jazz. Eldritch is good enough at throwing together a narrative that unless that rare game happens when you're delayed for multiple turns (which is not common and has only gotten less common as expansions come out) you'll always feel like something is going on. Tekopo posted:Really? DC deck builder is my go-to example of a deck builder that completely misunderstands what the loving point of deck builders is in the first place and has some of the worst design decisions ever made by anyone ever. Penny Arcade has all the problems of DC deckbuilder, exacerbated by multiple currencies to make screwy hands worse, cards that require you to roll a d20 and have game-winning effects on a 19 or 20 (the bosses), and at least 2 cards in the base game that have O.G. Thunderstone level balance issues (turns out doubling your money is pretty good in multiples and can lead to instant wins). It's not even a market row deckbuilder, so you can decide the game before you start and then hope for a lucky die roll with your preferred strategy.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:07
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If you want a beginner deck builder buy salmon run. DC deck builder will just cause issue when they try to play a game where trashing is necessary to victory.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:08
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I mean, trashing is really good in DC deckbuilder too it's just super hard and tends to be stapled to 6+-cost cards to encourage the snowball.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:09
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I have it on good authority that the Star Trek deckbuilder is actually the worst one.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:11
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Andarel posted:I mean, trashing is really good in DC deckbuilder too it's just super hard and tends to be stapled to 6+-cost cards to encourage the snowball. There's trasher for 3 that is one of the best cards in the game, and the first player to get it usually wins.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:13
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StashAugustine posted:Can you go into more detail about it?
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Oct 18, 2015 23:15
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golden bubble posted:Anyone have some opinions on Rococo? I'm thinking about getting it. Traditional point salad with a bit of card drafting a la Concordia. Not bad, but I've only played it at five and I think that's one player too many.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:29
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Tekopo posted:If you want a beginner deck builder buy salmon run. DC deck builder will just cause issue when they try to play a game where trashing is necessary to victory. The DC Villains deckbuilder actually has a major trashing theme in it, with a lot of cards that give benefits when trashed, and more ability to trash your own (and occasionally, your opponents (with limitations, of course)) cards. I mean yes, it's still a DC Deckbuilder variant, but it's slightly less bad because of its main theme.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:47
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golden bubble posted:Anyone have some opinions on Rococo? I'm thinking about getting it. I like it a lot. Best with 4 or 3. Unusual theme and good tense play, with the deck building elements being very neat.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:52
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Tekopo posted:Really? DC deck builder is my go-to example of a deck builder that completely misunderstands what the loving point of deck builders is in the first place and has some of the worst design decisions ever made by anyone ever. Seems to me that the point of deckbuilders is to be soulless euro efficiency games with enough randomness to make you feel good about your bad decisions. 
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Oct 19, 2015 00:17
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Toshimo posted:There's trasher for 3 that is one of the best cards in the game, and the first player to get it usually wins. Which one? It's been a while since I've played and I just remember Lobo and Heat Vision(?), though I'm not surprised something like that exists.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:31
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Andarel posted:Newer gamers will generally have a pretty decent tolerance for frustrating randomness - see Betrayal at House on the Hill, Cosmic Encounter, all that jazz. Eldritch is good enough at throwing together a narrative that unless that rare game happens when you're delayed for multiple turns (which is not common and has only gotten less common as expansions come out) you'll always feel like something is going on. So here's my Eldritch Horror story. One of the newest regulars at Tuesday board game night brought her boyfriend about a month or so back. Now she's legit into board games...she's the one who sharks us at Argent, loves Kemet and Dominion and Skull and is super psyched to play Pandemic Legacy and all that...while her boyfriend I gather isn't, but he came along as a kind of "I should see what the fuss is all about" sort of thing. There's another regular at board game night whose tastes in games I would describe as "indiscriminate." He's the one who introduced us to Meow and brought the copy of Exploding Kittens he Kickstarted and had to show everyone the meowing box and he's trying to get people to play the Sentinels of the Multiverse Tactics game he got at PAX, but he's also the one who brought Mysterium and Legendary Encounters and 7 Wonders, so basically he'll buy and play just about anything (except Kemet, because anything that even superficially resembles Risk makes him break out in hives). So he brings a bunch of games every Tuesday and a lot of them are things that given my druthers I would rather not play, but the last few weeks had been a lot of stuff that I'd brought and social nicety said that it was his turn to choose, and of the choices on hand Eldritch Horror seemed like the best of the lot for various reasons...the other regular had played Arkham Horror before and could help her boyfriend get a grasp on the rules, the rest of us were generally familiar with how it worked making it (we imagined) quicker to get going, and okay, it's ostensibly good for newer players because it lets you Forge a Narrative, right? Well let me tell you, boyfriend had a fairly lousy time of things, narrative be damned because Eldritch Horror is a loving awful boring game it turns out. I'm someone who played a fair clip of Arkham Horror when it was the new hotness and I've talked up Eldritch Horror as being "like Arkham but less onerous" but I legitimately felt sorry for that dude and also sorry for the lovely impression he doubtlessly came away with of what board game night is like. In three hours we barely got halfway into some form of resolution, and in that time no amazing narrative had sprung up to make the last three hours of stumblefucking around the map getting relentlessly owned by lovely dice rolls and awful monster draws feel worthwhile. Group consensus eventually agreed to simply end the game at that point and move on to something else but by that point you could tell that this guy was checking out and I don't really blame him. Now okay, anecdote isn't data and it's entirely possible that this guy was never going to get into things regardless of what super splendiferous game we set out in front of him, but I feel pretty confident having been there and watching things play out for myself that Eldritch Horror did this poor guy no favors and certainly was not a great introductory experience for him as far as introducing him to the wider hobby goes. Eldritch Horror (and Betrayal as well for many of the same reasons, though admittedly at least Betrayal tends to end much quicker) get bagged on in this thread for reasons beyond "lol goon hivemind," they get bagged on because they're games with fundamental flaws that can result in extremely unfun experiences for both new players and old hands alike. I can't in good faith recommend them as a way to get newer/more casual gamers into things when there are less cumbersome and less awful games to choose from. Maybe I wouldn't throw someone into the Pandemic end of the pool either but Forbidden Desert is spot on at the very least, even if it's not plastered with Cthulhus.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:33
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Andarel posted:Which one? It's been a while since I've played and I just remember Lobo and Heat Vision(?), though I'm not surprised something like that exists. 
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Oct 19, 2015 00:36
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Chicagoland goons: the gaming meetup I go to every Tuesday is having a 12 hour "Half-way to Tabletop Day" meetup this Saturday at Durty Nellie's in Palatine. The last big Saturday meetup they had for Tabletop Day earlier this year pulled a few hundred people, and every Tuesday there's between 60 and 100 people and it's always a good time. Come hang out, play some games, and drink some beers. There's a Metra stop literally at the bar if you are coming from the city.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:36
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Ah yeah, that card is pretty good.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:37
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I played Copper Country this weekend. Game is very pretty and has a rather striking appearance. It's not super deep, hovering somewhere between light and medium depending on your frame of reference. Typical "randomness with ways to mitigate randomness" gameplay, you basically build sets of cards in your hand and then turn over cards of the mining deck one by one (usually from 1~4 times every other turn or so) with each card having a point value and a handful of other options like "ignore this card" or "store this card for later completion" with each having requirements like "2 points, costs 1 Labor and 1 Transport". You know what sort of pairs you need before going digging so you can mitigate a lot of the luck like that and since all the cards have multiple options on them it doesn't feel that bad, I think someone only had a really bad dig once over the entire game when we played. It was cute, I'd like to play it more but probably not a huge number of times. It's easy to teach, especially if your group is cool with the idea of teaching as you go after explaining turn structure and win condition. My biggest criticism of the game is that I'm not sure it really conveys its message of "capitalism sucks for workers". The game's creators have not been subtle about this, either in meta-material like interviews and videos or in game art and flavor text, but mechanically it isn't really there; The players are all mining companies and workers will strike/die if you don't invest in safety and other paternalist systems, and investing in those systems will often make otherwise lovely cards into great options (many mining deck cards have things like "pay any 2 resources, gain [large number of points for the given game Era], but one of your workers dies" which become very efficient point generating tools if you're immune to those negative effects)... but I'm not sure if it's enough. Monopoly - or rather, The Landlord's Game - had a similar goal of exposing capitalism as a miserable experience through watching your friends' misery as you take all their poo poo, leaving them with nothing. Copper Country embraces modern game design philosophies, which "unfortunately" includes things like everyone building their own points, engines, etc., so at the end of the game after you've exploited your workforce and forced your rivals' workforce into unsafe environments, you just sorta feel good for winning A Game or pretty okay for getting 38 points instead of the winner's 43 points because hey 38 isn't so bad right? The Landlord's Game didn't really accomplish its objective by virtue of being completely unfun during the game itself and also a bunch of other reasons, but it feels like Copper Country fails in the complete opposite direction (mechanically, at least), and relies on the admittedly clever flavor text on the cards to convey its message.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:54
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Das Doppelganger posted:Would Codenames be a good classroom game for an English room or does it's main mechanic rely more on being clever than word comprehension? It sounds from an earlier post it's more cleverness than comprehension. Not good, I think. If you don't know a word, how can you clue it or guess it? If they have all the vocab, then it should work, so it depends on the level of their english.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:58
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