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fukkin epic
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Oct 18, 2015 21:45
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I don't understand some developers' penchant for aggressively abstracted answer previews. HATE NEWSPAPERS? It's like they're playing a meta-game with their players - oh, you think you can guess what your character's gonna say, but we're gonna surprise you! Why? The Witcher 3 had shortened previews that were still good indicators of the whole lines. Idgi.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:25
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It's funny in the witcher 3 when the dialogue options were needlessly abstracted: 1) The maguffin... what is that? Geralt: "What is the maguffin?"
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Oct 18, 2015 22:30
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anatomi posted:I don't understand some developers' penchant for aggressively abstracted answer previews. HATE NEWSPAPERS? It's like they're playing a meta-game with their players - oh, you think you can guess what your character's gonna say, but we're gonna surprise you! Why? The Witcher 3 had shortened previews that were still good indicators of the whole lines. Idgi. How is it ambiguous? You might not know exactly how they're gonna say it, but the sentiment is pretty clear.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:32
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Generation Internet posted:I thought people just farmed all of the pre-war food just sitting in vending machines J. Fallout either dies taking on a hundred cannibals or rules as Imperator in The Road version of Fallout. Really one of the best post-apoc books written.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:40
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It's because developers have to cater to console players, who can't read very well
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Oct 18, 2015 22:41
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I guess I want to know more than just the condensed sentiment. I think my problem with the kind of dialogue system F4 seems to employ goes back to something that's already been discussed to a sickening degree in this thread - I want to shape my character, not watch him perform. Edit: HATE BROCCOLI. anatomi fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:43
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7c Nickel posted:How is it ambiguous? You might not know exactly how they're gonna say it, but the sentiment is pretty clear. In the Bioware games this system is clearly aping, the summaries often don't actually summarize what you're going to say very well, making your character look like a psychopath or at least emotionally tone-deaf. The correct answer to his question is 'consoles.' Of course Witcher 3 didn't unnecessarily dumb the game down for console players, but that's because they are much better developers then Bethesda. Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:44
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Fooz posted:It's funny in the witcher 3 when the dialogue options were needlessly abstracted: I felt this when playing Mass Effect 1/2 so far: literally even the shortest, single word phrases are always different from the prompt.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:45
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Explain how it's 'consoles', please.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:45
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I don't think it's consoles, personally. I think developers have a tendency to fall in love with their ability to create abstracted systems, and maybe take it to unnecessary places/lengths. EDIT: I guess I just answered my own question. anatomi fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:51
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Magmarashi posted:Explain how it's 'consoles', please. HATE CONSOLES
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Oct 18, 2015 22:51
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Magmarashi posted:Explain how it's 'consoles', please. Remember how the previous games had a list of dialogue options you could scroll through, whereas this one has has four blurbs each linked to a controller button? Is there another explanation for that? Did they significantly dumb down the dialogue system solely because they hate their players, or... ?
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Oct 18, 2015 22:51
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:Remember how the previous games had a list of dialogue options you could scroll through, whereas this one has has four blurbs each linked to a controller button? Is there another explanation for that? Did they significantly dumb down the dialogue system solely because they hate their players, or... ? Why is it the fault of consoles that they chose to change the system?
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Oct 18, 2015 22:56
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HATE CHANGE.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:59
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Magmarashi posted:Why is it the fault of consoles that they chose to change the system? Seriously? This is nothing new. Many IP's dumb things down to the most convenient and accessible level for the lowest common denominator once things go "multi-platform".
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Oct 18, 2015 23:01
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7c Nickel posted:How is it ambiguous? You might not know exactly how they're gonna say it, but the sentiment is pretty clear. Allow me: (B) HATE NEWSPAPERS John Fallout: "Ma'am, honestly I hate reading the newspaper. Seems like any news nowadays is bad news." (B) HATE NEWSPAPERS John Fallout: "NEWSPAPERS are the TOOLS of the DEVIL, used to BRAINWASH our children with RED PROPAGANDA! DIE COMMIE WHORE!" (B) HATE NEWSPAPERS John Fallout: "loving seriously? We live in an irradiated wasteland, it's literally a coin flip whether you die of starvation or get eaten by a super mutant before you're thirty, and the best thing you can think to do is resurrect some centuries-dead tabloid rag? I loving hate you people!"
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Oct 18, 2015 23:05
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Jimb posted:Seriously? Fallout 3 and New Vegas used the old 'scroll through options' system and were multi-platform releases. Nothing about them being on consoles necessitated a change to that system, thus nothing about Fallout 4 being available on consoles necessitated this change across all platforms either. You might as well blame the change to the skills and perks on ~consoles~ for all the sense it makes.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:06
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:Remember how the previous games had a list of dialogue options you could scroll through, whereas this one has has four blurbs each linked to a controller button? Is there another explanation for that? Did they significantly dumb down the dialogue system solely because they hate their players, or... ? You mean you don't like that they made the dialogue easier to use and quicker? Even if you read fast, it's this weird unnaturally long pause in the conversation that rips you out of your character and just forces you to think about it from a gaming perspective.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:08
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Magmarashi posted:Why is it the fault of consoles that they chose to change the system? Please name one designed-for-PC game that used a four button scheme with short blurbs to select dialogue choices rather than presenting a menu of full-sentence options.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:10
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TW3, sort of? It can be done well.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:16
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:Remember how the previous games had a list of dialogue options you could scroll through, whereas this one has has four blurbs each linked to a controller button? Is there another explanation for that? Did they significantly dumb down the dialogue system solely because they hate their players, or... ? The other explanation is that the player character has gone from being totally silent to fully voiced, so displaying a list of dialogue options that are then just read aloud verbatim after selection becomes awkward and redundant. We won't know if the complete dialogue system is "dumbed down" or not until we actually play the game and see if options #5 through #10 got redistributed elsewhere in the dialogue trees or stuffed into "Investigate" submenus like Mass Effect. The two or three partial cherry-picked conversations we've seen so far in promotional material isn't really a lot to go on. Fallout 3's dialogue was really bad too regardless of the system it used so at worst Fallout 4 will probably just be a step sideways from that anyway. None of the conversational mechanics matter at all if the writing hasn't improved.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:16
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Sjonnar posted:Please name one designed-for-PC game that used a four button scheme with short blurbs to select dialogue choices rather than presenting a menu of full-sentence options. There are multiple methods of doing a dialogue wheel system that isn't bound to a 4-button scheme that work well with a controller, it's still -not- the fault of 'consoles/console gamers' that they chose to go with that one over any of the others.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:18
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Sjonnar posted:Allow me: My hope is for the third one.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:21
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Magmarashi posted:There are multiple methods of doing a dialogue wheel system that isn't bound to a 4-button scheme that work well with a controller, it's still -not- the fault of 'consoles/console gamers' that they chose to go with that one over any of the others. Four buttons, four options? Mass Effect originally only for XBox (console). Seems kinda too coincidental.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:23
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I never had a problem with these so called "vague" options in games that used it. With the exception of the "Very funny." -> "gently caress you." option from Witcher 2 prologue
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Oct 18, 2015 23:25
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Magmarashi posted:There are multiple methods of doing a dialogue wheel system that isn't bound to a 4-button scheme that work well with a controller, it's still -not- the fault of 'consoles/console gamers' that they chose to go with that one over any of the others. To be clear, I'm not saying in any way that it's the fault of consoles or console gamers (which I was until about 2/3 years ago), it's the fault of the devs incorrectly assuming console players are dumb and will react badly to any interface not specifically designed for a controller. I could have communicated that better, sorry.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:27
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Magmarashi posted:There are multiple methods of doing a dialogue wheel system that isn't bound to a 4-button scheme that work well with a controller, it's still -not- the fault of 'consoles/console gamers' that they chose to go with that one over any of the others. Oh good grief. Let me break it down Barney-style for you low-INT posters. See that A, B, X, Y control scheme there? That corresponds to the Xbox controller's buttons. That control scheme was thus designed for use with an Xbox controller. The Xbox, interestingly enough, is a console. Therefore, we can conclude that that particular dialogue control scheme was explicitly designed for use on a console. Thus we can also conclude that if the PC version of the game uses the same or a similar control scheme, that it is because the game was designed primarily for use on consoles. I'm pretty comfortable saying it is the fault of consoles that games are designed for consoles. How about you?
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Oct 18, 2015 23:30
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:To be clear, I'm not saying in any way that it's the fault of consoles or console gamers (which I was until about 2/3 years ago), it's the fault of the devs incorrectly assuming console players are dumb and will react badly to any interface not specifically designed for a controller. I could have communicated that better, sorry. Oh, well, I can see that easily. T-Dog and crew look like they're getting to that age when their touch with reality begins to slip at a steady rate.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:31
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SwitchbladeKult posted:My hope is for the third one. My hope is for a voice command that you can use whenever that makes John Fallout scream Die Commie Whore and pulls his weapon
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Oct 18, 2015 23:32
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If this game is like hundreds of years after the nuking why is everything still 1950's? Bethesda can't explain that.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:33
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Sjonnar posted:See that A, B, X, Y control scheme there? That corresponds to the Xbox controller's buttons. It's not color coded, clearly it's designed for an SNES style controller.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:34
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Controllers own, so having the interface be for them is better than made for KB+M And hopefully since the destiny guys helped with the gunplay, shooting will be enjoyable with a controller.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:34
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Doodles posted:Arefu has a farm, and outside the Regulator HQ is another one. (Which always ends up with all the cattle dead as soon as you fast travel there from whatever poo poo spawns at the same time.) There's another farm north of Canterbury Commons and south of the Republic of Dave, though that one was overrun by raiders. But all you see is cattle ranching and not agriculture. My guess is that it was cut back due to time/cost/hardware limits, since it's it's referred to as early as Shady Sands in Fallout 1. But references to it (and sidequests involving it) did come back in New Vegas, and it's going to be something you'll be able to take part in depth in 4. Magmarashi posted:God, I hope this is a mod eventually
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Oct 18, 2015 23:36
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Sjonnar posted:Oh good grief. Let me break it down Barney-style for you low-INT posters. You're retarded, controllers are extremely common for PC users as well, and the 360 controller is currently the standard. (The DS4 is the gold standard though)
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Oct 18, 2015 23:37
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I don't listen to the voice actors deliver the NPC dialog in these games anyway, so I'm definitely not going to listen to the voice actor for the PC. Having to choose from 4 answer archetypes, and then wait while the result of my choice is drip fed back to me, is terrible. On the other hand, I know the dialog will be profoundly mediocre in this game so I can probably just click through all the PC lines and lose nothing.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:43
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We can only hope there are other people involved in the writing so we don't have to suffer long stretches of unnecessarily melodrama or hamfisted endings, but I kind of doubt they won't go above and beyond making people want to avoid the main story even more than usual.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:45
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Crabtree posted:We can only hope there are other people involved in the writing so we don't have to suffer long stretches of unnecessarily melodrama or hamfisted endings, but I kind of doubt they won't go above and beyond making people want to avoid the main story even more than usual. Whenever I've watched other people play Bethesda games on the console they click through all of the dialog as fast as possible, go wherever the arrow points on their map, and mainly focus on the "combat", making numbers go up, and opening treasure chests.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:59
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And then they complain about not having any idea how to use shouts/spells/attack/sneak when the game tutorialized the hell out of its systems, yes.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:05
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I would be curious to know how many people who've played FO3 have ever found Rockopolis. It would be nice if the put more unflagged locations in the world for people who truly like exploring to stumble on but I doubt they'd put that much effort into things that few people would ever be likely to see. And as much as having games handhold players every step of the way, games at the other end of the spectrum (like Gothic 3) that have 0 map assistance are just frustrating when you're trying to sort poo poo out for yourself and then you get quests that involve looking for some tiny object laying in tall grass or a pile of rocks or something.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:29
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