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ascalapha odorata posted:Why don't you both do it and battle to the death over who has the best Part 1 effortpost Finally, an excuse to talk about Dio when I'm already physically incapable of shutting the gently caress up about him.  Plus, somebody has to defend Jonathan's honor. I'll see what I can cook up as a lead in or maybe go over things one theme at a time per post. I guess we'll see!
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Oct 19, 2015 04:21
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Tomorrow (and possibly the next day after) is going to be super busy for me, so I may possibly need to secede the crown by default. That said, if you're willing to wait, I'll see what I can cook up cause Part 1 is boss.
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Oct 19, 2015 07:29
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I'm willing to get as much of you guys about part 1 as is possible. I find it the weakest part overall but you might change that.
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Oct 19, 2015 10:11
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Mmmkay, Xibanya mentioned using symbols in order to convey meaning faster, so I may as well go into what that actually means in Phantom Blood as a starter. Authors, or at least good authors, will sometimes use widely known symbols that people will hopefully recognize in order to get the story across without having to get bogged down by having to stop and explain something that the audience doesn't get. If there's any world building to be had, it's done in sections where taking a breather would be appropriate, like in part 4 whenever Koichi narrates about something. In Phantom Blood, it's a nameless narrator, and sometimes that narration is combined with symbols we already know to build tension. First, to get it out of the way, what do I mean by "symbols"? Some people may say it's tropes like in TV Tropes but, ehhh, forget that for now. It's a clusterfuck at best and I'm not really talking about things that "just happen" in whatever piece of media you consume. I'm more talking about genre and the "rules" that come with those genres. We already know that Araki does this, not only with his use of playing around with shonen manga conventions but also with movies, using horror cinematography to build tension along with other movie conventions. This is different than using references. The Fist of the North Star and Les Mis stuff is the closest in PB that can be seen as a "reference" (and obviously the music namedrops, but I'm more referring to literary references), but they're also used to set up your expectations about the people you're looking at and also setting the tone or feeling of what you're reading. Good authors don't just throw around symbols and that's that, though. If things are implemented just a bit differently, it can set up some nice tension while also rewarding your brain for guessing right when something does go as expected. Not only does Araki use manga and movie conventions to do this, but also setting the story in what's basically the real world so all this stuff about vampires and sunlight kung fu is even more jarring but exciting as well. An easy example is Vampires. We all know the "rules" about vampires, right? Cursed undead monsters, die in the sunlight, keep them away with garlic and blessed objects, kill em with a stake to the heart. We've all seen Buffy and poo poo, we get it. "But wait!" I'm pretending you're saying so I can make a point. "JoJo vampires work differently!" Yes. Exactly. That's my whole point. Listen, we all know by now going into JoJo that poo poo gets weird immediately, but an audience in 1987 wouldn't know that. You have to have a buildup of the weird or else you're not going to hook the audience. This and the generational way of telling the different parts is why JoJo has lasted such a long time. It's not a buildup of power levels, but a buildup of "what the gently caress is even going on?" The reason why PB comes off as weak now is because we all know that this poo poo is going to get weirder. We start it under the assumption that there's going to be ridiculous fashion and homoerotic posing and poo poo that doesn't make sense and basically every other JoJo meme you can think of. What we get is, at least at the beginning, a period drama and a bit of a character study about two boys who spend their adolescence together. Not that exciting when compared to Part 6, or even Part 3...but the audience at the time didn't know that. They're not prepared for the imminent weirdness that's about to go down, so Phantom Blood has to have a foundational buildup so you can build your expectations for the rest of the series from there. And anyway, it's perfectly fine and interesting as a character study about two men who grow up together, even if they're less supposed to be characters and function more as paragons, or grow into being paragons. Back to the vampirism. PB, or at least the manga, immediately lets you know that the stone mask is bad news and shows you what it does: turn people into blood sucking monsters. It's done in sort of a cheesy, B-movie horror way, but it gets that out of the way and for the rest of the beginning, Araki teases the audience about how the mask is going to gently caress with the lives of these two men. Dario finds the mask but immediately dismisses it as creepy and not worth anything. There are shots of Dio's attention being caught by the mask until his attention is drawn to something else. Later on, he handles the mask again and gets some backstory from George about where it came from, immediately losing interest when told it isn't worth much and taking it wouldn't be a good idea anyway even if it were. Then JoJo punches him hard enough to draw blood, which gets onto the mask and he can see what that does (make the spiney things pop out). Seven years later, it turns out that JoJo became interested in it and studied the mask but obviously hasn't used it on anyone, thank God. But wait! Uh oh! Dio also saw what it did and, from a scene earlier that established that he can and will go through JoJo's things whenever he wants, he can get the stone mask and wants to use it on Jonathan to kill him! gently caress! Is JoJo going to be the vampire? How is this going to go wrong!? "But Dio's obviously going to be the vampire!" Okay, I feel you on this, but I'm gonna stop you right there because, again, the audience doesn't know that for sure. Dio is definitely set up to be JoJo's opposite, but they're both interested in the mask and obviously Dio isn't going to try it on himself because he thinks it will kill him. In order for Dio to become a vampire, he is going to have to do what JoJo can't and use it on another person to see what happens. I'll talk more about Dio's buildup as The Villain later, but for now my point is that the mask is constantly building tension through the beginning through its mere existence. It's a constant bait and switch that Araki does very well because it's not a constant jerking around but a slow tease of a buildup instead. It works well for the beginning of an entire series. It's also why, when Dio finally REJECTS HIS HUMANITYYYYYY, it feels satisfying instead of just predictable. As for the vampirism itself, we're treated with vampires that are like the ones we already know...but also aren't. They follow all the rules when it comes to being killed by sunlight and when it comes to some of their powers, but how they're made is more based in science than it is superstition. It's psuedo-science at best, but combating them through religious means doesn't seem to work. We're even treated to a scene of Dio crushing a silver cross in his hands and dropping it as if it were a wad of paper. He does it in front of someone, implying that she tried to use it to protect herself and Dio was like "haha lol : )" and shut her down. It gives the audience a disquieting moment of "Oh poo poo...does that not work? What about holy water or garlic? How is this going to go?" The vampires are familiar enough to still be recognizable, with Dio hilariously deciding to run with the whole Gothy Vampire Aesthetic, not because he has to but because he's also familiar with common vampire conventions. After all, that Aztec tribe subset didn't go that route because they didn't have those conventions while someone living in Victorian England would. Dio finds a big Gothy castle and collects a lot of vampire minions (you can even see some of them hanging from the ceiling like bats in one panel), he dresses in dark reds, purples and a bit of gold, he has a giant bowl full of roses just because it goes with the aesthetic, and he even weirdly insists on feeding on virgin women blood when he totally doesn't have to do that. Like really, he doesn't. The Aztec vampires didn't, that one dude who got vampirized didn't, but Dio feels like he has to because vampires always do that in the novels so he should to. It's a way to make JoJo vampires still familiar while also showing you something about Dio, in this case that he does this thing where he latches onto an image that he likes that he thinks would suit him. This is made even more obvious when SDC rolls around, as the vampirism has taken on more of a "this is my everyday life now" role, and Dio is dressing more in bright golds (you know, like his Stand) and Arabesque Pharaoh imagery because he's latched onto Stands in general, and Egyptology in specific because his is Tarot-based and as they said in SDC, Egypt is where the Tarot comes from. Anyway, the vampires are still familiar, but the rug is pulled out from under us when it comes to how to kill them or how to protect yourself, which works better than having JoJo vampires being completely unfamiliar because if they were, why are you even calling them vampires at this point? It takes the reader out of the experience plus it's on the author to try to explain why these new creatures could still be considered vampires even if they technically aren't. A good example of an author doing this that takes some readers out of the experience is the Twilight series, but then there's way more objectionable stuff in there than just vampires not working that way, so I'll leave it at that. There are plenty more examples, particularly Araki's use of dogs getting hurt for shock value, which I would find tiring if he didn't shake it up with the ol' bait and switch. A good example is the scene where Kars saves a dog from getting run over by drunk drivers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c04VTGJiCzA Right away, we both feel relief that the dog is okay and we know a little more about Kars and how we can compare and contrast him to someone who does...this.  If Kars, someone who was never human to begin with, is totally fine and cool with dogs, the gently caress does that say about Dio!?  That's it for now but I want to leave you with themes and expectations that are established in Phantom Blood and continue through the rest of the series. They include: -Family -Inheritance -Thinking outside of the box instead of overpowering an enemy -Friendship is Cool and Awesome -It's much more powerful to show kindness than it is hatred toward your enemy -The inevitability of Fate -It is completely possible for the main character to die. I hope this was a good read and at the very least a good starter! I'm holding Bad Seafood to a PB effort post whenever he's able, though.  EDIT: I KEEP....FINDING MISSPELLINGS OR WORDS THAT DON'T BELONG, sorry. 
BaDandy fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 18:22
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jesus gently caress
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Oct 19, 2015 18:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR2rGt_4T4A Dio Brando on Virgin Blood.
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Oct 19, 2015 18:59
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I could see DIO going into a church and casually just drinking holy water to freak someone out.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMUO6UK_W10 GOOD (that's a non sarcastic bravo) What I'll pull out from there though is the most obvious point that I tend to forget, which is that PB looks tame because we know where it's going so of course it seems like nothing happens. On its own it's still a pretty compelling story I think (and certainly a stranger-than-usual vampire tale). It also just serves as a good foundation for the rest and that is pretty important, yeah
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Oct 20, 2015 02:49
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Thank you...  It's gonna be a slow week for me so I may just write more if I can ever figure out a point to continue on. Hobgoblin2099 posted:I could see DIO going into a church and casually just drinking holy water to freak someone out. DIO and Pucci's first date
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Oct 20, 2015 23:57
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I suddenly appreciate Phantom Blood a lot more now. 
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Oct 21, 2015 01:08
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You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I keep seeing this one idea from several different sources that JoJo is a parody or satire, and that really confused me because aside from a couple of jokes that ribbed the shonen genre a little ("I can't die yet, I'm the main character" or Zeppeli straight up telling Speedwagon that he can't use the ripple because he doesn't have a tragic past like JoJo does  ), there's not really any parodying going on, that's just the narrative being self-aware. I think I can articulate where that idea is coming from now partly because people might be mistaking Araki taking all of these shonen manga conventions and turning them on their head as satire when it....isn't. Like, maybe it's just me, but I really doubt that they'd start off a parody series with the main character dying for good. I've even seen others saying say that it's parodying the genre by having these big burly men dress fabulously and...guys. No. Araki's just really into fashion. That's him being serious. The ridiculous bullshit powers and other weird nonsense are him being completely serious.I dunno, Phantom Blood didn't really have a lot of levity moments to give us a chance to Chill except for when Speedwagon came along, bless the man. 
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Oct 21, 2015 04:51
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there are weird people out there who want to justify what they're watching sometimes by saying that the creator is doing it as a joke or as a parody when 99% of the time that's not even true. honestly, it's been weird seeing dudebros get into the series because of the anime and being entirely baffled by things like the outfits later on. araki is really into fashion. he's the only manga artist who has been shown in the louvre and even had a marketing deal with gucci. it's not satire, ya dinguses
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Oct 21, 2015 05:03
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people are incredibly attached to gender norms
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Oct 21, 2015 05:15
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:there are weird people out there who want to justify what they're watching sometimes by saying that the creator is doing it as a joke or as a parody when 99% of the time that's not even true. honestly, it's been weird seeing dudebros get into the series because of the anime and being entirely baffled by things like the outfits later on. araki is really into fashion. he's the only manga artist who has been shown in the louvre and even had a marketing deal with gucci. This reminds me of this one post that essentially boiled down to "I wonder why Dio wears makeup" and went into this whole thing about Japan as being totally okay with men being into what would be considered more "feminine" (which is a whole can of worms I don't want to get into) and meanwhile, I'm sitting here thinking, "Uhhh. Dio is hypermasculine." I mean, I could also see him wearing makeup. Because he's vain. Dio is vain. The sky is blue. Zeppelis die. The circle of life continues. Oh, that also made me think of this old chestnut.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:19
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LA Video Game Babes Examiner
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Oct 21, 2015 05:21
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BaDandy posted:Oh, that also made me think of this old chestnut. I'm screaming and lighting myself on fire right now. But yeah, what Pomp said re: gender norms
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Oct 21, 2015 05:27
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ascalapha odorata posted:I'm screaming and lighting myself on fire right now. quote:I'm not the target demographic No one tell him.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:31
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dio wears makeup because why the gently caress not i actually like how a lot of the art goes for stylistic choices with stuff like lip color, because it's sorely underused. the pastel color palette used for a lot of the later arc stuff is gorgeous.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:44
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Jojo isn't a parody, exactly, but it is intentionally campy in a way that sort of blurs the line between silly and serious, at least from Battle Tendency onward. (I'm not sure if Phantom Blood's campiness is intentional; the anime plays it that way, but the manga doesn't give me that impression.)
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Oct 21, 2015 06:26
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Silver2195 posted:Jojo isn't a parody, exactly, but it is intentionally campy in a way that sort of blurs the line between silly and serious, at least from Battle Tendency onward. (I'm not sure if Phantom Blood's campiness is intentional; the anime plays it that way, but the manga doesn't give me that impression.) Oh it's very self-aware and camp. There's still a difference between that and something like OPM and, yeah, I think Phantom Blood had some self aware camp to it, but that was mainly from some of the characters going "okay, I guess I'm this kind of character now". Like Speedwagon being self-deprecating about being the useless side character who gets in the way or Dio....ex...isting....
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Oct 21, 2015 06:39
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JoJo strikes a thin line between goofy while taking itself completely seriously almost all of the time. There's never a wink to the audience about how SO BIZARRE THIS ADVENTURE IS, this crazy poo poo just happens. That guy's controlling the Sun, this baby can go into dreams, this dude is named Vanilla Ice, that's just how the world works. Only when you finish reading, do you pause and go "....jesus christ what is happening." JoJo is serious and so much fun in the moment, that even when you're thinking back to how goofy it was that there was a vampire named Vanilla Ice destroying space with his ability named Cream, it never devalues that experience and it just all feels genuine. I love JoJo.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:45
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It's going to be a bit stranger for western audiences, because less of the cultural references are going to go over our heads. I don't know how many japanese readers are going to know about REO Speedwagon, for instance.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:02
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I think that makes it better, really. Would Dio's second in command be nearly as memorable if you didn't know he was based on a white rapper from the 90s?
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Oct 21, 2015 13:44
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I would hope that Japanese readers could at least appreciate the pun made with Vanilla Ice and his stand Cream.
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Oct 21, 2015 13:57
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BaDandy posted:Oh, that also made me think of this old chestnut. I like the stunning lack of self-awareness in that article and also the comments. Of course the male author can pledge to not get uppity about how Jojo drawings make him feel objectified. It's because he can walk away from his TV and go literally anywhere to not feel objectified at. If a woman puts down Dragon's Crown and walks outside, there will still be no shortage of people and things available to remind her that her worthiness as a person is directly proportional to the extent that she resembles a cartoon porn star, including but not limited to: both her parents, the fashion and cosmetic industries, gendered marketing of products in general, random dudes in the street, and possibly her employer.
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Oct 21, 2015 14:08
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Moltrey posted:JoJo strikes a thin line between goofy while taking itself completely seriously almost all of the time. There's never a wink to the audience about how SO BIZARRE THIS ADVENTURE IS, this crazy poo poo just happens. That guy's controlling the Sun, this baby can go into dreams, this dude is named Vanilla Ice, that's just how the world works. I can't help but wonder if Polnareff tears up whenever Ice Ice Baby comes on the radio.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:16
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deadly_pudding posted:I like the stunning lack of self-awareness in that article and also the comments. Of course the male author can pledge to not get uppity about how Jojo drawings make him feel objectified. It's because he can walk away from his TV and go literally anywhere to not feel objectified at. Right? Not to mention that JoJo is a power fantasy that's specifically targeted to his gender demographic and Araki is just using what styles are popular at the time, but I digress. There's more to come of my PB Effort Posting, maybe. Hopefully. As soon as I fully wake up
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Oct 21, 2015 18:23
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deadly_pudding posted:I like the stunning lack of self-awareness in that article and also the comments. Of course the male author can pledge to not get uppity about how Jojo drawings make him feel objectified. It's because he can walk away from his TV and go literally anywhere to not feel objectified at. if i could tattoo this post on the retinas of every MRA and gamergate dipshit in the world, i would E: someone call up koichi, echoes act 1 could handle this poo poo [spoiled for Xibanya for plot points coming up soon] Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 01:40
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deadly_pudding posted:I like the stunning lack of self-awareness in that article and also the comments. Of course the male author can pledge to not get uppity about how Jojo drawings make him feel objectified. It's because he can walk away from his TV and go literally anywhere to not feel objectified at. but men experience discrimination too, cuz I feel insecure whenever a non-fat dude appears in media!  in other news http://jojo-animation.com/contents/special/goods_tif.html exactly how much money do you think DavidPro gets from all the concerts and vidya games, I wonder?
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Oct 22, 2015 03:02
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Okay, so let's talk about Fate for a bit. Which will be fun and good because that also means we're going to talk about my absolute Favorite Dude. I don't think I really appreciated villains until I looked into Dio Brando. What I mean by this is I liked villain characters just fine, in a "that's entertaining, I guess" kind of way. In a vague sort of way that you would appreciate background scenery but never really get into. The only types of "villains" I was interested in were either just antagonists or more forces beyond the protagonist's control. Then I read JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. There's a reason that everybody crows about how good Araki's villains are (villains in part 4 and beyond I won't get into because this is the anime thread, but trust me on this); it's because he's good at writing them. Araki doesn't want you to find them sympathetic at all, but at the same time he gives them proper motivations and goals than just "i'm evil lol". Even Dio, the man who sets dogs on fire out of spite, has more motivation to him than just "i'm evil". Araki strikes a balance between unsympathetic but also engaging and Dio, the most evil for evil's sake villain there is, was such a pleasant surprise to me, and going over Phantom Blood again with fresh eyes and seeing him grow into his role made it such a good read. In the manga thread, somebody posted someone's analysis about Dio's character and personality (full disclosure: I know them, and they're pretty cool.) I'm not going to get into that, or not very deeply, but I will touch on some important things about him and how they relate to telling the story. Here's something to keep in mind: Dio is the series stand in for Fate until part 7, haha. I'm not just pulling random guesses out of my rear end, as Araki straight up says this in the post scriptum for part 5. (SPOILERS) It's why he has such a looming presence throughout the series even when he isn't actually there. It's also why he's equated to God because, if you think about it, Fate is just a really secular way of defining God anyway. What do we call random happenstance that happens and we have no control over? Acts of God. Dio's had the same effect since almost day one. Really, saying that Joseph's parents are gone because of disease or war or whatever is no different than saying that they're gone because of Dio's involvement. We saw an example of this recently with what happened with the Nijimura patriarch. His villainy comes more from his existence in the world than him putting any conscious thought into mustache-twirling devilry. And he started as this poverty stricken human child who got beaten by his drunk father on the regular. That's both disturbing and weirdly inspirational to me. Not inspirational where you'd want to be like him, God no, but more like being in awe of the journey of going from this  to this  Which is just as fun as seeing Jotaro making him go from that to a sniveling coward who's suddenly made to fear for his own safety. It's fun because unlike the other villains in the series, we know Dio intimately well. Or we should, seeing as how he gets just as much backstory and screen time as Jonathan does. We know both of their thoughts and feelings and motivations, as Dio is essentially set up as the second Phantom Blood protagonist. And the antagonist. There's no rule that says you can't be both! See, out of all the kinds of stories that you could call Phantom Blood, when you get right down to it, it's a mythic origin story, both for the Joestar Bloodline and Dio himself. It's structured more like a story about the origin of different demigods or, for a more recent example, super heroes! So what does this have to do with Fate? Cool, okay. Here's a question: Why do things happen in stories? Stop. Whatever you were going to say, you're probably thinking about it harder than you have to. The answer is "because the story requires it." Being able to remind myself of this instead of getting bogged down with the events that happen in something that isn't real has been so liberating, and I know I'm probably preaching to the choir, but more nerds could stand to remember this. Like, no, there is literally no reason for Princess Zelda to always be the damsel in distress. It's that way because of the writers. No, there's no earthly reason for Quiet to run around with her tits hanging out, it's because the writers wanted her too. When you talk about that in a general sense, about events that happen in a story, all of it "fated" in a really meta way, right? When Dio is ranting on and on about how he and JoJo are fated to be together and how "there is certainly no relationship better calculated than ours," on a meta level he's totally right. Like, of course the author had them meet and come into conflict, that's basically all the building blocks that Phantom Blood is built on. He also sounds totally delusional and self-centered because, yes Dio, of course God thought you were important enough to mess with your life. Of course he did. Wow. Here's another question: Why do villains act the way they do? "Because they're villains" obviously. It's their job in the story. For both of these questions, you can do one of two things. You can either try to cover it up or you can totally own it, and Araki owns it hard by not only establishing first thing that fate is totally a real thing in the story, but having the main villain be an agent of it. Personally, I think that's really clever, and I think Araki makes it obvious enough for the audience to make the "fate=the author's intent" idea to hold some ground. After all, Thoth, a stand that predicts the future, takes the form of a comic book. It's pretty explicit, but it's also a good way of having to get out of explaining why something happens so you can move onto more interesting things. Why are we running into so many stand users? Because stand users are drawn to one another. Now shut up and enjoy the punchghosts. Here's where it gets interesting. Do you remember what Xibanya said about flaws? It's easy! Heroes will usually acknowledge the flaws they have and try to change them, while villains cling to their flaws. I want you to look at Dio while he was human. Araki gave him that much screen time while he was human for a reason. He has....SO many flaws, but what are the important things we learned about him as a human? Well, the main thing is that he doesn't understand, or is at least surprised, when there are consequences to his actions. Oh, he at least knows that doing illegal poo poo will put him in jail, but when it comes to trying to get his way, when Jonathan is finally able to push back the first time, it's surprising and weird and he backs off to try something entirely different. When Jonathan is trying to find the antidote for George, Dio starts going out at night and is left stumbling around in an anxious, drunken haze, insisting that his emotions are out of control and it's all JoJo's fault when...it isn't. We were there. We saw everything. Everything bad that's happening to Dio right now is because of his own actions, and you know what? The story gave him so many opportunities to just stop. And you know, he probably could have gotten a free pass for killing Dario. That's the one action he's done where I was like "Yeah okay, that's fair." He could have also let Dario literally drink himself to death, but Dio is a man of action and wanted to send Dario to hell himself. It's symbolic or something. Anyway, the most blatant example of "please stop, for real" to me is after he almost gets killed by a vampire he unwittingly made. Right there, he's shown what the stone mask does, what it turns people into and hey, isn't it a relief that you didn't use it on JoJo? That sure would have been a bad idea, right? Hoo boy, you would have gotten fuuuucked over! Good thing the sun rose to kill that thing and save you! This mask is, like, totally bad news, man. And Dio is like, "You know what, you're right." And fate is all, "Yeah, I sure am." And then Dio's like, "I'm going to use this to get out of jail," and then fate's all like, "Wait, no." It continues waaaay past his transformation. "Being stuck in that coffin for a hundred years sure was terrible." "Yes, I hope you learned your lesson." "Definitely. I need to get rid of the Joestars once and for all." "No. gently caress, what is wrong with you?" And on and on. Dio develops as a character, but he never learns the lessons he's supposed to be learning. He always magically seems to miss the main thrust of what life is trying to teach him. He says to Polnareff that he feels emotional pain too by not being able to see the sunlight but that was completely his own doing. Getting the cops sicked on him was his own doing. JoJo beating the poo poo out of him several times was his own loving doing, and he's always so offended, or falls onto the excuse of fate conspiring against him when almost everything going wrong was his own doing. "I learned that the more you plan, the more that things go wrong." Yes, that's very true. I'm so proud of you for coming to that conclusion. "...As long as you are human." No. No, Dio. Goddammit. He's always soooo close but then jerks the steering wheel in the other direction at the last possible second. But is it because he was always meant to be the villain? Or is it just his personality? Fate as a concept is brought up pretty early in Phantom Blood in a very offhand way. Wang Chen comments on Dio's birthmark and how it means he'll live a long but tumultuous life. It's supposed to be an ice breaker, but it's made clear that this is the signal that means that Dio is going to go full vampire. And honestly, can you see Dio having a moment of reflection and being like "Wow, I've been such a douchebag. I need to stop doing that." No, of course you can't. Speedwagon pretty much tells him that his actions made him evil and what does he do? Massively shrug and be like "well, I guess I'm evil!" and takes the next logical step. In his mind, Dio can't let go of any flaws because he's never wrong. Ever. Before, his actions weren't evil, just smart or planning ahead. When he's told that no, they're evil, he's like, "Being evil is just better then" and clings to that through the entire rest of the series. No matter how hard you try, you cannot get him to consider anything else because it'll slide off like he's covered in Teflon. With someone like that, the more you see of him and the more his personality is revealed, the more it seems like he's always been fated to be the villain, but it's still justified and never feels contrived at all. Araki was basically showing his work to the audience. And the more the series goes on, the more that fate as a concept is explored and played with, not in any super deep sense, but it doesn't have to be. All that's needed is for it to be done in a way that surprises and entertains us, and both how fate works in the series and Dio himself do both. Plus, it's just so fun to see Dio go from a reserved and angry, self-hating person to the scantily clad and overdramatic goofball he was always meant to be. Even if he's not your favorite JoJo villain, he is so entertaining and I kind of wasn't expecting that going in, even when I did know about the ZA WARUDO meme beforehand. Ah, geez. What a dude. Next time, I dunno, I personally want to see some stuff about Jonathan. Will Bad Seafood help me defend Jonathan's honor? 
BaDandy fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 04:33
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BaDandy posted:Dio and fate That was a good loving post, you should totally do more like this if you have the time/energy.
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Oct 22, 2015 05:51
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Seriously, yeah, that kinda stuff is a joy to read. Thank you.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:01
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English 2 taught me that i absolutely hate doing literary analyses, but my god do I enjoy reading them.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:18
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Started typing up a huge post but it's late and I'm tired so I saved it to another document and plan to hit the hay. I will say though that I like a lot of what's been said, and will likely say less to avoid overlap. I'd also appreciate it if BaDandy would hold off on examining Jonathan Joestar, since I've a mind to employ a suitable transition.
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Oct 22, 2015 09:32
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That is a really drat thoughtful look at Dio. And by extension DIO.
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Oct 22, 2015 09:43
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This Di molto bene Statue Legend statue comes out next year. It is fantastic.
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Oct 22, 2015 10:22
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Enourmo posted:English 2 taught me that i absolutely hate doing literary analyses, but my god do I enjoy reading them. Ha I have a degree in this stuff but writing a cogent analysis beyond just 'that was a cool thing' or 'actually, not a cool thing' makes me want to jump off a ledge. Burnout is real. Also, with JoJo I shut off a couple parts of myself to enjoy as-is? I always worry about picking stuff apart in a bad way. When my interest really ramped up, it didn't help that I stumbled into fan areas that weren't very welcoming/friendly so my thought was 'oh poo poo, I do not belong with this fandom at all.' I like discussions here but I'm not looking at facebook groups/pages again, unless stuff really switched over or calmed down. When other people do all the legwork and leave me with great stuff to read, I especially enjoy the effort.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:52
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Thanks for the effort posting, BaDandy (and others): more please! I do literary analysis for a (crappy) living and I often feel both really eager and too exhausted to turn a critical eye on the media I enjoy when I'm off work. I love to read other people taking things I love seriously enough to treat them as analyzable pieces of art. (Plus, yeah, there's a lot of resistance in most fandoms to any kind of writing that's not just "I liked the thing" and I'm always pleasantly surprised when I get into some effort-heavy talk about comics and get a good response.)BaDandy posted:Which is just as fun as seeing Jotaro making him go from that to a sniveling coward who's suddenly made to fear for his own safety. It's fun because unlike the other villains in the series, we know Dio intimately well. Or we should, seeing as how he gets just as much backstory and screen time as Jonathan does. We know both of their thoughts and feelings and motivations, as Dio is essentially set up as the second Phantom Blood protagonist. And the antagonist. There's no rule that says you can't be both! See, out of all the kinds of stories that you could call Phantom Blood, when you get right down to it, it's a mythic origin story, both for the Joestar Bloodline and Dio himself. It's structured more like a story about the origin of different demigods or, for a more recent example, super heroes!
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Oct 22, 2015 16:31
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Thanks, everyone! I'm always afraid that what I'm saying might just be really obvious or whatever, but this is encouraging. Writing in general is something I need to get into the habit of doing anyway.Bad Seafood posted:I'd also appreciate it if BaDandy would hold off on examining Jonathan Joestar, since I've a mind to employ a suitable transition. I have a feeling I know what you're going to say about him but yes, please, I could listen to people talk about Jonathan for hours. Amaryllis posted:Thanks for the effort posting, BaDandy (and others): more please! I do literary analysis for a (crappy) living and I often feel both really eager and too exhausted to turn a critical eye on the media I enjoy when I'm off work. I love to read other people taking things I love seriously enough to treat them as analyzable pieces of art. (Plus, yeah, there's a lot of resistance in most fandoms to any kind of writing that's not just "I liked the thing" and I'm always pleasantly surprised when I get into some effort-heavy talk about comics and get a good response.) Well now I gotta listen to this. I love listening to this kind of stuff, so thank you.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:51
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These posts are great, and I'm really happy to see some attention thrown towards Phantom Blood. It gets overshadowed because it's not as fun as later parts, but the story is really tight and well-told, and each time I watch/read it I find more to appreciate.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:41
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