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thespaceinvader posted:He was the baddy in the less-well-received KC sequel. The baby was Clark and Diana's and there was temporal fuckery that led to it becoming Magog or Gog or both and finding Superman and killing him every day from the future back to the end of KC or something. Is that the comic that introduced Hypertime?
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Oct 19, 2015 22:48
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Is that the comic that introduced Hypertime? Sadly, yes.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:53
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Is that the comic that introduced Hypertime? Yes, there's a reason Hypertime disappeared not long after until it got brought back recently
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Oct 19, 2015 22:57
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mind the walrus posted:I would really like to see this. Was it a space-minotaur? It was probably just that regular minotaur guy that was always in the background shots in KC. Always liked that guy, he's like the Wedge Antilles of Kingdom Come.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:46
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Achernar posted:It was probably just that regular minotaur guy that was always in the background shots in KC. Ross must have liked him a lot too since he was one of those that survived the whole story
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Oct 19, 2015 23:57
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drrockso20 posted:Yes, there's a reason Hypertime disappeared not long after until it got brought back recently
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Oct 20, 2015 00:13
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drrockso20 posted:Yes, there's a reason Hypertime disappeared not long after until it got brought back recently Hypertime never went away, it always existed. There was just a little while where no-one could properly perceive it so they pretended it wasn't around, but everyone knows Hypertime is Real.
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Oct 20, 2015 00:42
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Ignite Memories posted:Just that Kingdom Come is a critique of the grim gritty superhero comics from the 90s, and to tell the story they had to kill lois off-panel to raise the stakes. It wasn't off-panel. Look closer at the panel where Joker's about to smash a certain cub reporter's head in whose signal watch is outside of Supes' hearing range as he was in space at the time iirc.  Seriously the detail level of the book is absolutely amazing, and is Ross' masterpiece. There's a LOT of storytelling in it that is "show don't tell". One such "story" I like in it is in the big crowded metahuman bar sequence. In a few of the pages, Deadman can be seen faffing about unseen as is his thing (he's now a skeleton in the suit instead of a pale dude for whatever reason) and if you pay attention to his body language and gestures, it's obvious that he can see Norman and The Spectre. drrockso20 posted:Ross must have liked him a lot too since he was one of those that survived the whole story I suspect that it was so he could put a Minotaur on Themyscira. The Kingdom was pretty bad, and Waid actively brought back to life many characters that died at the Battle of Kansas, not really paying attention to the stories being told by Ross in the backgrounds, like Kid Flash for instance (note Flash desperately looking for her and panicking after being shielded by GL from the blast). The only issue that's not terrible is the Offspring one, probably because it's the only character really made solely by Waid for the property, and actually contains a pretty good story (his wife wants him to be some grim and gritty hunk of a hero, when at the end of the day, he's just the goofy rear end son of Plastic Man--who also canonically is still alive at the end of Kingdom Come btw) I was seriously a KC nerd around 2000. I even have the novelization, which is pretty good. and spells out some of these stories nicely, as well as containing some of Ross' pencil sketches of characters.
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Oct 20, 2015 00:57
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For everyone who is curious about the KC sequel the Kingdom you should be aware that for how good KC was, the Kingdom manages to be the absolute opposite and almost entire terrible unless you absolutely love DC Comics.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:00
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So... unless your name is Mark Waid?
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Oct 20, 2015 01:08
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I'll put it this way. Waid's book in the series about Ibn al'Xuffasch--Kingdom Come's adult version of Damian years before Damian was a thing--brings Luthor to the Batcave and then brings Braniac and Ra's al Ghul back to life, so that they can lump their intelligence together to solve the current time-unraveling threat happening to their world. Then he tricks Braniac and Luthor into killing each other. Then he has a big dramatic swordfight with grandpa Ra's atop the robot dinosaur, ultimately besting and killing him, cause he's just so  of an Original Character Do Not Steal.
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Oct 20, 2015 03:08
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Dramatic sword fight on top of a robotic dinosaur sounds pretty loving cool.
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Oct 20, 2015 03:17
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Gaz-L posted:So... unless your name is Mark Waid? Pretty much! (or your name is Rhyno)
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Oct 20, 2015 03:40
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Choco1980 posted:I'll put it this way. Waid's book in the series about Ibn al'Xuffasch--Kingdom Come's adult version of Damian years before Damian was a thing--brings Luthor to the Batcave and then brings Braniac and Ra's al Ghul back to life, so that they can lump their intelligence together to solve the current time-unraveling threat happening to their world. Then he tricks Braniac and Luthor into killing each other. Then he has a big dramatic swordfight with grandpa Ra's atop the robot dinosaur, ultimately besting and killing him, cause he's just so Choco1980 posted:The only issue that's not terrible is the Offspring one, probably because it's the only character really made solely by Waid for the property, and actually contains a pretty good story
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Oct 20, 2015 03:53
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Choco1980 posted:I'll put it this way. Waid's book in the series about Ibn al'Xuffasch--Kingdom Come's adult version of Damian years before Damian was a thing--brings Luthor to the Batcave and then brings Braniac and Ra's al Ghul back to life, so that they can lump their intelligence together to solve the current time-unraveling threat happening to their world. Then he tricks Braniac and Luthor into killing each other. Then he has a big dramatic swordfight with grandpa Ra's atop the robot dinosaur, ultimately besting and killing him, cause he's just so Sounds awesome! Like Damian showing he's the superior Robin by fighting Tim atop the T-Rex.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:07
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Choco1980 posted:I'll put it this way. Waid's book in the series about Ibn al'Xuffasch--Kingdom Come's adult version of Damian years before Damian was a thing--brings Luthor to the Batcave and then brings Braniac and Ra's al Ghul back to life, so that they can lump their intelligence together to solve the current time-unraveling threat happening to their world. Then he tricks Braniac and Luthor into killing each other. Then he has a big dramatic swordfight with grandpa Ra's atop the robot dinosaur, ultimately besting and killing him, cause he's just so This sort of blatant favouritism is completely different from when Batman does this exact same type of poo poo because Oh, I guess because he actually kills them.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:24
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Choco1980 posted:It wasn't off-panel. Look closer at the panel where Joker's about to smash a certain cub reporter's head in whose signal watch is outside of Supes' hearing range as he was in space at the time iirc. I agree. Like how there's a character named Nightstar who I don't think is ever actually named in the book itself, but she's always around, resembling Starfire, only with black hair. In the end, she's shown as being at Dick Grayson's side when he's in the hospital, so just from that you can figure out who she actually is. Meanwhile, I don't believe Kingdom Come ever outright states Ibn al'Xuffasch was Batman's kid outside of translating his name. Just that he was the heir to the League of Assassins. Yet there's plenty of evidence to support that he's working as a mole for Bruce to get inside information on Luthor's crew. Plus it leads to my favorite background moment at the hospital in the end where over three panels we see Ibn pulling a sheet over a dead patient, looking deeply affected by it, then looking up as Bruce walks over and gives him a fatherly look of reassurance and comfort. thespaceinvader posted:He was the baddy in the less-well-received KC sequel. The baby was Clark and Diana's and there was temporal fuckery that led to it becoming Magog or Gog or both and finding Superman and killing him every day from the future back to the end of KC or something. I thought the book tossed "the baby is going to become Magog" as a red herring when he really just turned out to be some dude who janitors Hypertime. Similarly, they had what appeared to be Phantom Stranger showing up once or twice, only to reveal it's the grown-up version of Clark and Diana's kid. For a second I thought that meant that Phantom Stranger's origin was being revealed at last, which I was strangely okay with.
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Oct 20, 2015 06:19
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The Kingdom #1 was really shot in the dick by Ariel Olliveti's horrible artwork and #2 was pushed down a stairs when Mike Zeck decided to phone it in on his pencils.
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Oct 20, 2015 06:25
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Gavok posted:I agree. Like how there's a character named Nightstar who I don't think is ever actually named in the book itself, but she's always around, resembling Starfire, only with black hair. In the end, she's shown as being at Dick Grayson's side when he's in the hospital, so just from that you can figure out who she actually is. Yeah, there's only two other clues about Ibn's allegiances. During that same hospital sequence, all the other "boardroom" villains are wearing control collars, even Selina Kyle. Ibn's not. And speaking of the boardroom, when Batman's Outsiders attack and subdue these same suit and tie villains, there's a moment where Darkstar's about to shoot Ibn, but Nightstar jumps in front of him with her hands out like "no, not him!" in the background. Tiny details that are show, not tell. Also, if you have any of the collected editions, they name everyone on the covers of the first three issue's big group shots with a one sentence description in the appendices. One more easter egg and then I'll shut up unless people want to hear more of the kind. On the cover group shots, you see a couple of similarly hooded characters that are call backs to silver age stories. On Superman's cover, you have Powerman, who was a masked robot built by Superman to aid in his crimefighting. On the Batman cover is a guy called Mysterman, who was Earth-2's Jim Gordon in an adventure where he helped out Batman. During the Kansas battle you can spot the two fighting in the backgrounds of a couple panels. Their choreography mimics Superman and Captain Marvel's fight.
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Oct 20, 2015 07:24
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One of my favorite scenes in KC (in comics ever actually) is smug Bruce Wayne walking past Lex in that hospital ward and say "Shazam" to which Lex can only say "Shut up."
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Oct 20, 2015 07:41
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How does no one ever mention Conan O Brien dressed up as a Robin waiter?
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Oct 20, 2015 08:16
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Choco1980 posted:Yeah, there's only two other clues about Ibn's allegiances. During that same hospital sequence, all the other "boardroom" villains are wearing control collars, even Selina Kyle. Ibn's not. And speaking of the boardroom, when Batman's Outsiders attack and subdue these same suit and tie villains, there's a moment where Darkstar's about to shoot Ibn, but Nightstar jumps in front of him with her hands out like "no, not him!" in the background. Tiny details that are show, not tell. I want to hear more cool stuff about Kingdom Come, but this isn't really the right thread for it. Maybe move to the DC thread? Or make a thread just for KC? You could always do a Let's Read thread, though those haven't been terribly successful in the past and most everyone's read KC by this point, I'd imagine.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:20
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There was a site that annotated the entirety of kingdom come. Let me see if I can find it. Edit: I think this is it. It's a long read.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:33
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Rhyno posted:One of my favorite scenes in KC (in comics ever actually) is smug Bruce Wayne walking past Lex in that hospital ward and say "Shazam" to which Lex can only say "Shut up." I really think Kingdom Come Batman is my favorite incarnation of Batman. There's a lot to love about him, mainly in that he's finally embraced what he is and it's made him more upbeat. I also like how the whole "Batman doesn't kill!" thing is played with, not in the sense that he's killed bad guys, but in that he's become disturbingly and realistically complacent with murder happening around him. Someone blew up Arkham? Oh well, what are you going to do? Then Superman gets through to him while desperately pleading.  I was so jazzed to see them do that final bit in Dark Knight Rises. While I'm at it, from Kingdom Come #3, Martian Manhunter's sad state.  One of the few great moments in Kingdom is when KC Batman meets his younger self and is all, "Kid, stop acting like an rear end in a top hat. You're not impressing anyone."
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Oct 20, 2015 16:54
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Bruce's white suit is also fly as hell. Look at that thing! Old man is rockin' it.
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Oct 20, 2015 17:00
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Dramatic sword fight on top of a robotic dinosaur sounds pretty loving cool. "ROBOT DINOSAUR???"
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Oct 20, 2015 17:02
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This is my KC moment:
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Oct 20, 2015 17:19
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Endless Mike posted:I want to hear more cool stuff about Kingdom Come, but this isn't really the right thread for it. Maybe move to the DC thread? Or make a thread just for KC? You could always do a Let's Read thread, though those haven't been terribly successful in the past and most everyone's read KC by this point, I'd imagine. Seconding this, but probably in a different thread. All these small details are awesome.
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Oct 20, 2015 17:44
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Bah, I probably couldn't exert the effort to do it justice. If someone else wants to make a thread I'd be happy to gush about all the little background details in that thread though. You could just go to that annotation site however. My first year of college, I worked at the community college copy center, and my boss was a big comics geek. He loaned me once this book he had that collect the annotations and was filled with illustrations. It had a cool cover too by Ross where he aped Alex Toth's Super Friends style to draw the KC characters which was fun. This was like, in 2000.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:21
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Choco1980 posted:My first year of college, I worked at the community college copy center, and my boss was a big comics geek. He loaned me once this book he had that collect the annotations and was filled with illustrations. It had a cool cover too by Ross where he aped Alex Toth's Super Friends style to draw the KC characters which was fun. This was like, in 2000.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:26
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redbackground posted:The Kingdom Come Companion! I've been keeping an eye out for a physical copy for a long time without paying a whole lot for it. DC had the book pulled almost immediately so it's also a rarer find. You mean this?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:35
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Yup.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:37
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That's the one. I remember very little about it but it was handy for figuring who all the characters were in panels and whether or not Ross pulled them from an obscure reference or straight up invented them. I also remember the archive picture they used for the original version of Braniac had him drawn oddly to look nearly exactly like actor Kurtwood Smith. Like to the point where I had to stop my boss with what he was doing and make sure I wasn't going crazy.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:21
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mind the walrus posted:I would really like to see this. Was it a space-minotaur? Nah, just a superdude who happened to have a bull head and a mad-on against the Green Lantern. Choco1980 posted:That's the one. I remember very little about it but it was handy for figuring who all the characters were in panels and whether or not Ross pulled them from an obscure reference or straight up invented them. I also remember the archive picture they used for the original version of Braniac had him drawn oddly to look nearly exactly like actor Kurtwood Smith. Like to the point where I had to stop my boss with what he was doing and make sure I wasn't going crazy. I got the big hardcover collector's edition with the Companion information in the back. It was really, really, really good and at some point I need to collect it from my parents' house >.<
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Oct 21, 2015 20:23
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As someone who first encountered the DC Captain Marvel in the early 1970s it's strange to see such a cartoony, lightweight character drawn into the grimdark stuff that comics turned into. It's like seeing Bugs Bunny mixed in with all the death and destruction. And now someone's going to tell me that Bugs Bunny also received the grimdark makeover at some point. 
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Oct 21, 2015 20:48
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Dick Trauma posted:And now someone's going to tell me that Bugs Bunny also received the grimdark makeover at some point. Not... exactly? 
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Oct 21, 2015 20:49
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Not... exactly? "BUZZ loving BUNNY, BITCH! IT'S loving EXTREME!!"
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Oct 21, 2015 21:00
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Dick Trauma posted:As someone who first encountered the DC Captain Marvel in the early 1970s it's strange to see such a cartoony, lightweight character drawn into the grimdark stuff that comics turned into. It's like seeing Bugs Bunny mixed in with all the death and destruction.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:14
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Dick Trauma posted:As someone who first encountered the DC Captain Marvel in the early 1970s it's strange to see such a cartoony, lightweight character drawn into the grimdark stuff that comics turned into. It's like seeing Bugs Bunny mixed in with all the death and destruction. In a major story line with 186,744 people were murdered.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:20
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Dick Trauma posted:As someone who first encountered the DC Captain Marvel in the early 1970s it's strange to see such a cartoony, lightweight character drawn into the grimdark stuff that comics turned into. It's like seeing Bugs Bunny mixed in with all the death and destruction. You should read the Loony Leo issue of Astro City. "It was then that I discovered an advantage to being a cartoon character, one I'd never thought of before. Maybe you get hungry... but you don't need to eat. Not really. Freeze in the rain... sleep in the cold... walk this country from one end to the other... you won't die."
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Oct 21, 2015 21:21
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